Re: [talk-ph] Usability of translating Wikidata world places to Tagalog/Filipino
I agree with Eugene, if you choose specifically to display the map in Tagalog, you should get whatever name for the place that is correct Tagalog. Same way if you specifically choose Chinese, you should see the Chinese names of Filipino places, if available. The question is though, how would apply the other way? If we're looking at a map of the Philippines without selecting language, would it then be displayed in Tagalog? I'm just wondering, because not all of the Philippines is Tagalog area? Bulacan is written with a C and Angeles City is not "Lungsod ng Angeles" to the locals, and pretty much anyone else. In fact, in case of Angeles City, it's actually "Lakanbalen ning Angeles", but does OSM support languages on regions, not just countries? If so, how do we deal with multilingual areas? You might look how it is done in Belgium and Switzerland, both countries with multiple official languages generally divided by area. Or India, I believe they have 20-something official languages. Will adding Tagalog names for places result in that becoming the default language for place names in the Philippines when viewing a map without actively selecting a language? If that's the case, I think it's a bad idea - simply because Tagalog is not the only language in the Philippines - there are more than a hundred of them! That would be undermining the linguistic diversity of the country. If the default will be the English (or "international") names, and you only get Tagalog names by actively selecting Tagalog language, then it makes good sense. If you get the place names written in Kapampangan, Visayan, Ilocano, etc. as default in the areas where they are spoken (and English/International as a backup in case the local language is not avaiable), then it sounds like a good idea to use the various Filipino languages as default, otherwise it makes sense to use the other official language of the Philippines - English as the default. If you can differentiate the language used when actively selecting "Tagalog" as your language from the default language for a country, you may consider creating a fictive language "Filipino languages" to use as default for the Philippines, based on current default (English) and replacing the default with Tagalog names for those areas. This way you'll get "Maynila", but not "Lungsod ng whatever" in non-Tagalog areas. (Yes I know we shouldn't use prefixes like "Lungsod ng" on the map, but I couldn't come up with a better example off the top of my head. It's the principle, not the particulars that matter here.) Ronny. On 2017-05-05 08:27, Jim Morgan wrote: maning sambale wrote on Thursday, 04 May, 2017 06:55 PM: Our team at Mapbox is pushing for completing Wikidata places translation to several languages [0] including Filipino/Tagalog. The aim is to connect the two projects and leverage from the data that both project have (location in OSM, translations in Wikidata). [1] So, for me, the ideal situation is this: the map allows you to select a language preference. If I'm looking at a map of China and I select English, the english name should display if available, but if not, then the default Chinese name should appear. Applying this to your comment about Germany, the map would appear initially in German. If you selected Tagalog, any place names with a tagalog translation would display, but otherwise the name would appear in German. This would allow people to flip between several languages as they desired. Places with vastly different alphabets (Thailand, China, Russia etc) would definitely benefit from this arrangement. Jim ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Usability of translating Wikidata world places to Tagalog/Filipino
I'd like to be a bit of a purist. If you want to use the understandable
everyday language that people use, then name that language "Taglish". So
you have: "Kelan ang flight niya papuntang Germany?" But if you are going
to use the language name "Tagalog", then you should use the actual language
and not the code-switching variant. ("Kailan ang lipad niya papuntang
Alemanya"?)
On Fri, May 5, 2017 at 6:34 AM, Ronny Ager-Wick wrote:
> In my honest opinion, I think most people, Tagalog speaking included,
> would be confused rather than helped by Alemanya and Estados Unidos. Nobody
> calls them that! And the C/K and V/B replacement isn't really helpful
> either. I don't know anyone who would use anything but the original
> spelling of Cavite and Bulacan - not to mention China. Hapon, maybe... I
> have heard some old people say it, but if they were to search it, I can't
> imagine anyone using that rather than Japan. Although most people who are
> old enough to say Hapon instead of Japan tend not to search the net that
> much... It's a generalization - no offense! :)
>
> I'd say it undesirable to use Tagalog names - doesn't help anybody and
> outright confuses most people.
>
> Take into account that the Filipinos I know is a statistically small
> sample and my opinions are based on this small sample.
> Ronny.
>
>
>
> On 2017-05-04 12:55, maning sambale wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I started this conversation in OSMPH slack but would like to open
>> discussion in this list. Also apologies if this is not entirely
>> related to OSM but a very close project since as per Eugene's
>> assessment wikidata community is not very active in the Philippines.
>>
>> Our team at Mapbox is pushing for completing Wikidata places
>> translation to several languages [0] including Filipino/Tagalog. The
>> aim is to connect the two projects and leverage from the data that
>> both project have (location in OSM, translations in Wikidata). [1]
>>
>> Eugene posted suggestions, here's our conv in Slack
>>
>> maning [April 26th at 10:49 AM]
>> @here what's our best practice for name tagalog? We use english names
>> right?
>>
>> seav [Apr 26]
>> We should use the Tagalog translation if it is available and well
>> attested. Examples: Maynila (Manila), Kabite (Cavite), Bulakan
>> (Bulacan), Hilagang Samar (Northern Samar), Alemanya (Germany),
>> Estados Unidos (United States), Hapon (Japan), Tsina (China).
>>
>> My question is while this is desirable, is it essential for locals in
>> the Philippines or travelling abroad to use a navigation app with
>> translated places in Filipino/Tagalog. In most cases Filipinos are
>> comfortable with using English names for places (e.g. "Germany"
>> instead of "Alemanya")
>>
>> [0] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Planemad_mapbox/World_pla
>> ces_translation_project
>> [1] https://www.mapbox.com/blog/scaling-openstreetmap-wikidata-knowledge/
>>
>>
>
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[talk-ph] Usability of translating Wikidata world places to Tagalog/Filipino
Hi, I started this conversation in OSMPH slack but would like to open discussion in this list. Also apologies if this is not entirely related to OSM but a very close project since as per Eugene's assessment wikidata community is not very active in the Philippines. Our team at Mapbox is pushing for completing Wikidata places translation to several languages [0] including Filipino/Tagalog. The aim is to connect the two projects and leverage from the data that both project have (location in OSM, translations in Wikidata). [1] Eugene posted suggestions, here's our conv in Slack maning [April 26th at 10:49 AM] @here what's our best practice for name tagalog? We use english names right? seav [Apr 26] We should use the Tagalog translation if it is available and well attested. Examples: Maynila (Manila), Kabite (Cavite), Bulakan (Bulacan), Hilagang Samar (Northern Samar), Alemanya (Germany), Estados Unidos (United States), Hapon (Japan), Tsina (China). My question is while this is desirable, is it essential for locals in the Philippines or travelling abroad to use a navigation app with translated places in Filipino/Tagalog. In most cases Filipinos are comfortable with using English names for places (e.g. "Germany" instead of "Alemanya") [0] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Planemad_mapbox/World_places_translation_project [1] https://www.mapbox.com/blog/scaling-openstreetmap-wikidata-knowledge/ -- cheers, maning -- "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden https://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ http://twitter.com/maningsambale -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
