Re: [talk-ph] Fwd: RFC: importing Palawan roads
May Garmin GPS ba yung Palwan rider? I can prepare a garmin map for him to verify. (That's a lot fuel, btw.) On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 5:50 PM, Marloue Pidormur...@mail2engineer.com wrote: @maning: What is you suggestion? @George: I already downloaded the shape file for Palawan roads. Can you send or give the URL to our Palawan guy for verification? I will email you off-list. murlwe -Original Message- From: maning sambale [emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com] Sent: 6/14/2009 5:43:58 PM To: mur...@mail2engineer.com Cc: talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [talk-ph] Fwd: RFC: importing Palawan roads D? :) On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 5:35 PM, Marloue Pidormur...@mail2engineer.com wrote: D) I have another suggestion. -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- . ___ Get the Free email that has everyone talking at http://www.mail2world.com Unlimited Email Storage POP3 Calendar SMS Translator Much More! -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Fwd: RFC: importing Palawan roads
If anyone wants to look at the palawan roads, I can send them off-list (like what I did for rally). I am hesitant to provide a public link because the provider wants it added to osm and not to any other whatever. On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Eugene Alvin Villarsea...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe the Palawan data as a whole is not ok, but looking at the image you supplied for Puerto Princesa, maybe that city's downtown data is still good enough after shifting it to more or less match the existing OSM data. While some parts will not be GPS accurate, the data is still pretty much useful for paper-map style of navigation. Then when somebody can do the actual surveying, he/she need only adjust the location of nodes. On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 3:13 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: With more eyeballs all bugs are seen (Linus Torvalds) Doing a quick check on proportions and shapes of different tracks from different portion of the map, I think the data supplied is trash. :-( As per Rally's assessment, I am holding-off to importing this data. Unless, others can make sense of how we can use this for OSM. I can provide a download link to anyone who wants to play around with it. If you think it's useable for OSM, we can discuss this here. Personally, nanghinayang lang ako, if this is good data (or at least useful) a good chunk of roads will be added to OSM. But as Rally said, So, we'll surely get in trouble or lose good reputation for uploading bad data, hehe I'd rather accept someone saying we have wrong data because of an honest newbie experimenting around than importing data we know having big problems. Thanks Rally for doing the assessment. Any other comments? -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Fwd: RFC: importing Palawan roads
Hi guys we already contacted somebody from Palawan to verify your data. He is a motorcycle enthusiast they roam around parts of Palawan. We invited him to join the mailing list to communicate with you directly. He is willing to help us with the Palawan mapping. murlwe -Original Message- From: Eugene Alvin Villar [sea...@gmail.com] Sent: 6/13/2009 2:36:13 PM To: emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com Cc: talk-ph@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [talk-ph] Fwd: RFC: importing Palawan roads Maybe the Palawan data as a whole is not ok, but looking at the image you supplied for Puerto Princesa, maybe that city's downtown data is still good enough after shifting it to more or less match the existing OSM data. While some parts will not be GPS accurate, the data is still pretty much useful for paper-map style of navigation. Then when somebody can do the actual surveying, he/she need only adjust the location of nodes. On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 3:13 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: With more eyeballs all bugs are seen (Linus Torvalds) Doing a quick check on proportions and shapes of different tracks from different portion of the map, I think the data supplied is trash. :-( As per Rally's assessment, I am holding-off to importing this data. Unless, others can make sense of how we can use this for OSM. I can provide a download link to anyone who wants to play around with it. If you think it's useable for OSM, we can discuss this here. Personally, nanghinayang lang ako, if this is good data (or at least useful) a good chunk of roads will be added to OSM. But as Rally said, So, we'll surely get in trouble or lose good reputation for uploading bad data, hehe I'd rather accept someone saying we have wrong data because of an honest newbie experimenting around than importing data we know having big problems. Thanks Rally for doing the assessment. Any other comments? span id=m2wTlpfont face=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif size=2 style=font-size:13.5px___BRGet the Free email that has everyone talking at a href=http://www.mail2world.com target=newhttp://www.mail2world.com/abr font color=#99Unlimited Email Storage #150; POP3 #150; Calendar #150; SMS #150; Translator #150; Much More!/font/font/span___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Fwd: RFC: importing Palawan roads
D? :) On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 5:35 PM, Marloue Pidormur...@mail2engineer.com wrote: D) I have another suggestion. -- cheers, maning -- Freedom is still the most radical idea of all -N.Branden wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/ blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/ -- ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Fwd: RFC: importing Palawan roads
Maybe the Palawan data as a whole is not ok, but looking at the image you supplied for Puerto Princesa, maybe that city's downtown data is still good enough after shifting it to more or less match the existing OSM data. While some parts will not be GPS accurate, the data is still pretty much useful for paper-map style of navigation. Then when somebody can do the actual surveying, he/she need only adjust the location of nodes. On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 3:13 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.comwrote: With more eyeballs all bugs are seen (Linus Torvalds) Doing a quick check on proportions and shapes of different tracks from different portion of the map, I think the data supplied is trash. :-( As per Rally's assessment, I am holding-off to importing this data. Unless, others can make sense of how we can use this for OSM. I can provide a download link to anyone who wants to play around with it. If you think it's useable for OSM, we can discuss this here. Personally, nanghinayang lang ako, if this is good data (or at least useful) a good chunk of roads will be added to OSM. But as Rally said, So, we'll surely get in trouble or lose good reputation for uploading bad data, hehe I'd rather accept someone saying we have wrong data because of an honest newbie experimenting around than importing data we know having big problems. Thanks Rally for doing the assessment. Any other comments? ___ talk-ph mailing list talk-ph@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ph
Re: [talk-ph] Fwd: RFC: importing Palawan roads
@maning: i've contacted a former officemate who lives in palawan and is every interested in joining and contributing at least may palawan mapper na tayo. :). His name is Jefferson Fermo and he was very excited when he saw the current state of OSM in the Philippines :) On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 3:13 PM, maning sambaleemmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: With more eyeballs all bugs are seen (Linus Torvalds) Doing a quick check on proportions and shapes of different tracks from different portion of the map, I think the data supplied is trash. :-( As per Rally's assessment, I am holding-off to importing this data. Unless, others can make sense of how we can use this for OSM. I can provide a download link to anyone who wants to play around with it. If you think it's useable for OSM, we can discuss this here. Personally, nanghinayang lang ako, if this is good data (or at least useful) a good chunk of roads will be added to OSM. But as Rally said, So, we'll surely get in trouble or lose good reputation for uploading bad data, hehe I'd rather accept someone saying we have wrong data because of an honest newbie experimenting around than importing data we know having big problems. Thanks Rally for doing the assessment. Any other comments? On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Eugene Alvin Villarsea...@gmail.com wrote: I was about to ask you to ask them how they compiled their data. It obviously wasn't traced over Google Earth nor taken using GPS tracks. I think Rally might have guessed their method correctly. On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 11:26 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: Rally de Leon rall...@gmail.com Date: Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [talk-ph] RFC: importing Palawan roads To: maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com Doing a quick check on proportions and shapes of different tracks from different portion of the map, I think the data supplied is trash. :-( I've seen shape files very much like this (like the one I obtained from Taytay Assessor) that was just traced over TAX MAPPING paper sheets (purely based on shape guestimation and visual ratio-and-proportion) then converted then to autocad drawings. I've seen them how they draw the lot shapes on paper (during the time nagtatambay ako sa assessor). It's doable if you know where to chop the areas (eg. per subdivision or per purok), then convert it back to raster image, then georectify that image (for every area) which will need actual gps waypoints, then trace your vector lines over the raster layer. But what's the point? we are talking of the whole palawan.The purpose of this data is just for assessment and for assigning PIN codes on the tax declaration, not for navigation nor for making proportionally correct paper map. I highly doubt that the data came from actual field survey. Because I've traced Namria topo maps before (in Luzon datum), and they were proportionally correct when I translated them to WGS84. My old personal garmin maps were made this way with fairly high degree in accuracy. But in this case, the shp file have wrong proportions, different shapes, different angles, a lot of extraneous lines and streets (that doesn't make sense), really bad. I tried Luzon-Mean, Luzon-Philippines, Luzon-Mindanao (all failed), so I tried to cheat by just dragging them over google satellite image, still failed, won't fit. No wonder you can't make it fit using all available datum, hehe. nadaya yata tayo dun. If we are lucky enough to have one subdivision fit the roads of a satellite image (yahoo or google), the adjacent subdivision won't (as i've tried it since this was really easy to do in trackmaker pro). In my experience, even those subdivisions as far as 500meters from your reference tracklog should still fit the satellite image with your extended vector traces; in this case, even the neighboring streets a few blocks away doesn't. So, we'll surely get in trouble or lose good reputation for uploading bad data, hehe. I suggest we just recruit gps-tracker volunteers in any of the streets in palawan (where there are good hi-res satellite images), and lets do it the old fashion way. Call back the source of this data and ask him to confess (if they really made that survey). kung ayaw umamin, i-torture natin ;-D On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 6:17 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: I tried every projection parameters I can think of pero may shift pa rin, anyway the shift is systematic so moving the whole data to fit existing OSM roads, should be straightforward. Here's the data, around 7 MB: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/file/view/palawan_roads.zip Tirahin mo sya! On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 6:01 PM, Rally de Leonrall...@gmail.com wrote: can you send me a copy of this palawan tracks? how big? i'm sure you already have your methods of converting to wgs84. but let me see
Re: [talk-ph] Fwd: RFC: importing Palawan roads
Excellent! May GPS ba sya? Can he look at the donated Palawan data? On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 10:38 AM, George Tujangtu...@gmail.com wrote: @maning: i've contacted a former officemate who lives in palawan and is every interested in joining and contributing at least may palawan mapper na tayo. :). His name is Jefferson Fermo and he was very excited when he saw the current state of OSM in the Philippines :) On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 3:13 PM, maning sambaleemmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: With more eyeballs all bugs are seen (Linus Torvalds) Doing a quick check on proportions and shapes of different tracks from different portion of the map, I think the data supplied is trash. :-( As per Rally's assessment, I am holding-off to importing this data. Unless, others can make sense of how we can use this for OSM. I can provide a download link to anyone who wants to play around with it. If you think it's useable for OSM, we can discuss this here. Personally, nanghinayang lang ako, if this is good data (or at least useful) a good chunk of roads will be added to OSM. But as Rally said, So, we'll surely get in trouble or lose good reputation for uploading bad data, hehe I'd rather accept someone saying we have wrong data because of an honest newbie experimenting around than importing data we know having big problems. Thanks Rally for doing the assessment. Any other comments? On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Eugene Alvin Villarsea...@gmail.com wrote: I was about to ask you to ask them how they compiled their data. It obviously wasn't traced over Google Earth nor taken using GPS tracks. I think Rally might have guessed their method correctly. On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 11:26 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: Rally de Leon rall...@gmail.com Date: Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [talk-ph] RFC: importing Palawan roads To: maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com Doing a quick check on proportions and shapes of different tracks from different portion of the map, I think the data supplied is trash. :-( I've seen shape files very much like this (like the one I obtained from Taytay Assessor) that was just traced over TAX MAPPING paper sheets (purely based on shape guestimation and visual ratio-and-proportion) then converted then to autocad drawings. I've seen them how they draw the lot shapes on paper (during the time nagtatambay ako sa assessor). It's doable if you know where to chop the areas (eg. per subdivision or per purok), then convert it back to raster image, then georectify that image (for every area) which will need actual gps waypoints, then trace your vector lines over the raster layer. But what's the point? we are talking of the whole palawan.The purpose of this data is just for assessment and for assigning PIN codes on the tax declaration, not for navigation nor for making proportionally correct paper map. I highly doubt that the data came from actual field survey. Because I've traced Namria topo maps before (in Luzon datum), and they were proportionally correct when I translated them to WGS84. My old personal garmin maps were made this way with fairly high degree in accuracy. But in this case, the shp file have wrong proportions, different shapes, different angles, a lot of extraneous lines and streets (that doesn't make sense), really bad. I tried Luzon-Mean, Luzon-Philippines, Luzon-Mindanao (all failed), so I tried to cheat by just dragging them over google satellite image, still failed, won't fit. No wonder you can't make it fit using all available datum, hehe. nadaya yata tayo dun. If we are lucky enough to have one subdivision fit the roads of a satellite image (yahoo or google), the adjacent subdivision won't (as i've tried it since this was really easy to do in trackmaker pro). In my experience, even those subdivisions as far as 500meters from your reference tracklog should still fit the satellite image with your extended vector traces; in this case, even the neighboring streets a few blocks away doesn't. So, we'll surely get in trouble or lose good reputation for uploading bad data, hehe. I suggest we just recruit gps-tracker volunteers in any of the streets in palawan (where there are good hi-res satellite images), and lets do it the old fashion way. Call back the source of this data and ask him to confess (if they really made that survey). kung ayaw umamin, i-torture natin ;-D On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 6:17 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: I tried every projection parameters I can think of pero may shift pa rin, anyway the shift is systematic so moving the whole data to fit existing OSM roads, should be straightforward. Here's the data, around 7 MB: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/file/view/palawan_roads.zip Tirahin mo sya! On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 6:01 PM, Rally de Leonrall...@gmail.com wrote: can
Re: [talk-ph] Fwd: RFC: importing Palawan roads
With more eyeballs all bugs are seen (Linus Torvalds) Doing a quick check on proportions and shapes of different tracks from different portion of the map, I think the data supplied is trash. :-( As per Rally's assessment, I am holding-off to importing this data. Unless, others can make sense of how we can use this for OSM. I can provide a download link to anyone who wants to play around with it. If you think it's useable for OSM, we can discuss this here. Personally, nanghinayang lang ako, if this is good data (or at least useful) a good chunk of roads will be added to OSM. But as Rally said, So, we'll surely get in trouble or lose good reputation for uploading bad data, hehe I'd rather accept someone saying we have wrong data because of an honest newbie experimenting around than importing data we know having big problems. Thanks Rally for doing the assessment. Any other comments? On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Eugene Alvin Villarsea...@gmail.com wrote: I was about to ask you to ask them how they compiled their data. It obviously wasn't traced over Google Earth nor taken using GPS tracks. I think Rally might have guessed their method correctly. On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 11:26 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: Rally de Leon rall...@gmail.com Date: Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [talk-ph] RFC: importing Palawan roads To: maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com Doing a quick check on proportions and shapes of different tracks from different portion of the map, I think the data supplied is trash. :-( I've seen shape files very much like this (like the one I obtained from Taytay Assessor) that was just traced over TAX MAPPING paper sheets (purely based on shape guestimation and visual ratio-and-proportion) then converted then to autocad drawings. I've seen them how they draw the lot shapes on paper (during the time nagtatambay ako sa assessor). It's doable if you know where to chop the areas (eg. per subdivision or per purok), then convert it back to raster image, then georectify that image (for every area) which will need actual gps waypoints, then trace your vector lines over the raster layer. But what's the point? we are talking of the whole palawan.The purpose of this data is just for assessment and for assigning PIN codes on the tax declaration, not for navigation nor for making proportionally correct paper map. I highly doubt that the data came from actual field survey. Because I've traced Namria topo maps before (in Luzon datum), and they were proportionally correct when I translated them to WGS84. My old personal garmin maps were made this way with fairly high degree in accuracy. But in this case, the shp file have wrong proportions, different shapes, different angles, a lot of extraneous lines and streets (that doesn't make sense), really bad. I tried Luzon-Mean, Luzon-Philippines, Luzon-Mindanao (all failed), so I tried to cheat by just dragging them over google satellite image, still failed, won't fit. No wonder you can't make it fit using all available datum, hehe. nadaya yata tayo dun. If we are lucky enough to have one subdivision fit the roads of a satellite image (yahoo or google), the adjacent subdivision won't (as i've tried it since this was really easy to do in trackmaker pro). In my experience, even those subdivisions as far as 500meters from your reference tracklog should still fit the satellite image with your extended vector traces; in this case, even the neighboring streets a few blocks away doesn't. So, we'll surely get in trouble or lose good reputation for uploading bad data, hehe. I suggest we just recruit gps-tracker volunteers in any of the streets in palawan (where there are good hi-res satellite images), and lets do it the old fashion way. Call back the source of this data and ask him to confess (if they really made that survey). kung ayaw umamin, i-torture natin ;-D On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 6:17 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: I tried every projection parameters I can think of pero may shift pa rin, anyway the shift is systematic so moving the whole data to fit existing OSM roads, should be straightforward. Here's the data, around 7 MB: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/file/view/palawan_roads.zip Tirahin mo sya! On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 6:01 PM, Rally de Leonrall...@gmail.com wrote: can you send me a copy of this palawan tracks? how big? i'm sure you already have your methods of converting to wgs84. but let me see what i can do (para meron naman akong mapaglibangan this weekend). don't worry, i'm not going to trace over googleearth. (lets just compare notes later) :-) i'm just going to try if it's as easy as shifting the entire thing on the built-in datum-shifter of GPS trackmaker, if it works and passed our counterchecks, then the data goes to
Re: [talk-ph] Fwd: RFC: importing Palawan roads
I was about to ask you to ask them how they compiled their data. It obviously wasn't traced over Google Earth nor taken using GPS tracks. I think Rally might have guessed their method correctly. On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 11:26 AM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.comwrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: Rally de Leon rall...@gmail.com Date: Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 9:36 PM Subject: Re: [talk-ph] RFC: importing Palawan roads To: maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com Doing a quick check on proportions and shapes of different tracks from different portion of the map, I think the data supplied is trash. :-( I've seen shape files very much like this (like the one I obtained from Taytay Assessor) that was just traced over TAX MAPPING paper sheets (purely based on shape guestimation and visual ratio-and-proportion) then converted then to autocad drawings. I've seen them how they draw the lot shapes on paper (during the time nagtatambay ako sa assessor). It's doable if you know where to chop the areas (eg. per subdivision or per purok), then convert it back to raster image, then georectify that image (for every area) which will need actual gps waypoints, then trace your vector lines over the raster layer. But what's the point? we are talking of the whole palawan.The purpose of this data is just for assessment and for assigning PIN codes on the tax declaration, not for navigation nor for making proportionally correct paper map. I highly doubt that the data came from actual field survey. Because I've traced Namria topo maps before (in Luzon datum), and they were proportionally correct when I translated them to WGS84. My old personal garmin maps were made this way with fairly high degree in accuracy. But in this case, the shp file have wrong proportions, different shapes, different angles, a lot of extraneous lines and streets (that doesn't make sense), really bad. I tried Luzon-Mean, Luzon-Philippines, Luzon-Mindanao (all failed), so I tried to cheat by just dragging them over google satellite image, still failed, won't fit. No wonder you can't make it fit using all available datum, hehe. nadaya yata tayo dun. If we are lucky enough to have one subdivision fit the roads of a satellite image (yahoo or google), the adjacent subdivision won't (as i've tried it since this was really easy to do in trackmaker pro). In my experience, even those subdivisions as far as 500meters from your reference tracklog should still fit the satellite image with your extended vector traces; in this case, even the neighboring streets a few blocks away doesn't. So, we'll surely get in trouble or lose good reputation for uploading bad data, hehe. I suggest we just recruit gps-tracker volunteers in any of the streets in palawan (where there are good hi-res satellite images), and lets do it the old fashion way. Call back the source of this data and ask him to confess (if they really made that survey). kung ayaw umamin, i-torture natin ;-D On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 6:17 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: I tried every projection parameters I can think of pero may shift pa rin, anyway the shift is systematic so moving the whole data to fit existing OSM roads, should be straightforward. Here's the data, around 7 MB: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/file/view/palawan_roads.zip Tirahin mo sya! On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 6:01 PM, Rally de Leonrall...@gmail.com wrote: can you send me a copy of this palawan tracks? how big? i'm sure you already have your methods of converting to wgs84. but let me see what i can do (para meron naman akong mapaglibangan this weekend). don't worry, i'm not going to trace over googleearth. (lets just compare notes later) :-) i'm just going to try if it's as easy as shifting the entire thing on the built-in datum-shifter of GPS trackmaker, if it works and passed our counterchecks, then the data goes to JOSM for additional validations, edits and tagging. else if it's not that easy, maybe we can use a method of shifting arbitrary control points. (most likely, palawan is on Zone 2 of Luzon Datum, then convert to WGS84) (practically, all main Luzon island is on Zone 3 - the one used by surveyors). The alignment of these luzon-datum tracks to the computed WGS84 control points can be done entirely within JOSM by just dragging the entire tracks. We have many ways to check the accuracy afterwards. medyo barok (as we will use graphical method - JOSM's is very good at this), but it may work without the need to for mathematical conversions and without the need to rely on googleearth alignments. On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 2:51 PM, maning sambale emmanuel.samb...@gmail.com wrote: There is no online map we can compare the traces to to see how accurate I'm doing it when I got this message. :) See for yourself over GEarth (blue is OSM, red is
