Re: [Talk-transit] JOSM Plugin
On 24 Aug 2009, at 20:18, Péter Connell wrote: > Wonder if we need some openjourneyplanner thing - obviously a > massive task. > > ... but who owns bus timetables? The argument is raging as we speak This is a great blog post on the subject which shows how hard the agencies are being pushed at present:- http://news.cnet.com/8301-19882_3-10315749-250.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-5 At ITO we are pushing transport authorities virtually every day to get hold of the data under a commercial agreement where we pay them, but even that is hard! I am sure that in time the deal will be that the information is available without charge. Imo, we can't expect to maintain accurate timetables without access to the official data. It just isn't practical and sustainable to track all the detail and all the changes over time without it. And of course, the range of services which are suddenly available to authorities who release their data is growing by the day. Regards, Peter > > *strokes beard* > > ___ > Talk-transit mailing list > Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] JOSM Plugin
Wonder if we need some openjourneyplanner thing - obviously a massive task. ... but who owns bus timetables? *strokes beard* ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] JOSM Plugin
On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 5:06 PM, Roland Olbricht wrote: > I would like to add to the map the bus routes of Wuppertal. After starting > with a sample (4 out of about 50 routes), it turned out to be a tedious > task > due to poor tool support. Thus, I'm thinking about writing a JOSM plugin to > simplify editing. Nice work on setting out to map the bus routes of Wuppertal (do you have a link? I must confess I have no idea where that is). I'm not sure whether it'd be more or less tedious to write a plugin for JOSM, but good luck if you decide to have a go. Personally, I find the online Potlatch editor works pretty well for tagging long distance routes (and if you learn the keyboard shortcuts, it's pretty quick to keep adding the same relation to a way). > There doesn't seem to be consenus about what representation to use. > There are some, partly contradictive, propositions > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Public_transport > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User%3AOxomoa/Public_transport_schema > (and probably others) Yes - public transport mapping is still a fairly new activity, and so there are a few different ways that people have conceived of doing it. I've been trying to promote http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Public_transport as a place where we can document the different tagging schemas in existence, but documentation is still a little patchy. Please feel free to help out! > - I'd like to differentiate between networks for different times of the > day. > For example, for the Paris bus network there are even distinct maps: > http://www.ratp.info/orienter/bus.php > The network has services that run only during daytime, services running > only > in the evening, services running in the evening a different mission than > during daytime and services running always the same mission. Interesting! One idea might be to use a network=* tag. Alternatively, there might be some form of hours-of-operation tag that we could either re-use or propose. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Public_transport suggests using service=*, but I don't think this is in wide-spread usage yet (or has even been discussed?). The only thing we probably shouldn't do is to use another relation to group the services together - as that'd be a form of categorisation, which isn't what relations are designed for. > > - Some of the services run through loops. E.g. > > ABF---CD > || > +E---+ > > they run ABECD in one direction and DCFBECFBA in the other direction. The > standard route model with unordered data does not allow to distinguish this > from ABECFBECD forth and DCFBA back. As I understand it, the ways SHOULD be order. Also, if we go with the notion of using on-way 'stop points' (ie nodes in the highway representing where the buses stop, rather than the nodes beside the highway representing where passengers wait), then those nodes should be included within the relation too, in order. (This is already done for some train services). That said, I don't think one way or node can belong to the same relation more than once! So you wouldn't be able to map the 'loop' perfectly yet. - I'd like to give some indication about connections between different > services. Some services always wait for each other to allow to change > quickly. Some services intentionally have coordinated timetables, i.e. > the busses of line 627 and 637 partly run in parallel. One is departing at > a > stop at 00 und 20, the other at 40, so they offer together a ride every 20 > minutes. > I suspect that might be a little out-of-scope for a map...? Perhaps concentrate on mapping the routes first? Frankie -- Frankie Roberto Experience Designer, Rattle 0114 2706977 http://www.rattlecentral.com ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
Re: [Talk-transit] JOSM Plugin
I use frequency= to record the off-peak Mon-Fri service frequency per hour (so for one every 20 mins, frequency=3). Which I must add as a suggestion to the wiki. Ideally editor support would be available for handling 50+ relations on a way (a not uncommon situation on a central urban street). Richard On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 5:06 PM, Roland Olbricht wrote: > Hello everybody, > > I would like to add to the map the bus routes of Wuppertal. After starting > with a sample (4 out of about 50 routes), it turned out to be a tedious > task > due to poor tool support. Thus, I'm thinking about writing a JOSM plugin to > simplify editing. > > Are there already efforts to write better editor support? On what data > representation should this based? > > There doesn't seem to be consenus about what representation to use. > There are some, partly contradictive, propositions > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NaPTAN > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Public_transport > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User%3AOxomoa/Public_transport_schema > (and probably others) > and all of them only partly fit to the following concerns I have: > > - I'd like to differentiate between networks for different times of the > day. > For example, for the Paris bus network there are even distinct maps: > http://www.ratp.info/orienter/bus.php > The network has services that run only during daytime, services running > only > in the evening, services running in the evening a different mission than > during daytime and services running always the same mission. > > - Some of the services run through loops. E.g. > > ABF---CD > || > +E---+ > > they run ABECD in one direction and DCFBECFBA in the other direction. The > standard route model with unordered data does not allow to distinguish this > from ABECFBECD forth and DCFBA back. > > - I'd like to give some indication about the frequency: there are services > like bus 587 running once per day as opposed to services like 608 running > every 10 minutes. > > - I'd like to give some indication about connections between different > services. Some services always wait for each other to allow to change > quickly. Some services intentionally have coordinated timetables, i.e. > the busses of line 627 and 637 partly run in parallel. One is departing at > a > stop at 00 und 20, the other at 40, so they offer together a ride every 20 > minutes. > > Cheers, > Roland > > ___ > Talk-transit mailing list > Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit > ___ Talk-transit mailing list Talk-transit@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
