Re: [Talk-us] Blame me for JOSM yellowness
and then what is this info good for? just because someone claims it's correct? is it correct then? more correct than data with the tag set to no? can you give a single example where this info is helping? the tiger data is terrible wrong in some places. it's more important to fix the data instead of spending time on a useless tag. and what is correct in a project like osm? correct name, all attributes, the location. correct location? accuracy +/- 1km, 1m, 1cm? it make editing with josm a real pain. there are 2 solutions. delete it on all ways as soon as data is downloaded to get rid of it or hack the josm source. both isn't too difficult for an experienced josm user but why should anyone need to? On 23 Apr 2009, at 14:25 , Russ Nelson wrote: On Apr 22, 2009, at 11:02 AM, Apollinaris Schoell wrote: what is the benefit in doing this? There is no other method for somebody to say I looked at this and everything about it is correct. -- Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson r...@cloudmade.com - Twitter: Russ_OSM - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Blame me for JOSM yellowness
and then what is this info good for? just because someone claims it's correct? is it correct then? more correct than data with the tag set to no? can you give a single example where this info is helping? the tiger data is terrible wrong in some places. it's more important to fix the data instead of spending time on a useless tag. and what is correct in a project like osm? correct name, all attributes, the location. correct location? accuracy +/- 1km, 1m, 1cm? All fair questions, but the obvious notion to me is good enough compared to the published OSM accuracy standards :-) More seriously, I've deleted a few erroneous ways and moved one in my town from massgis, but the other 99.8% are clearly close enough so I would just delete the tags as I notice they're ok driving by. it make editing with josm a real pain. there are 2 solutions. delete it on all ways as soon as data is downloaded to get rid of it or hack the josm source. both isn't too difficult for an experienced josm user but why should anyone need to? I'm in Mass which has the higher-quality MassGIS data which doesn't really need the reviewed:no tag for way locations, so I haven't noticed this. But Mass has unreviewed tags for oneway directions because MassGIS knows ways are one-way but apparently buys routing data they couldn't share -- and thus half of those are wrong (until fixed), so they really do need reviewing/fixing. Having them be highlighted would be cause me to notice/fix more of them. Perhaps there should just be a view option highlight unreviewed objects, and those that like this can turn it on and those that don't can not. pgpUPP52ZKRvY.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Blame me for JOSM yellowness
On Thu, 2009-04-23 at 23:01 -0700, Apollinaris Schoell wrote: On 23 Apr 2009, at 14:25 , Russ Nelson wrote: On Apr 22, 2009, at 11:02 AM, Apollinaris Schoell wrote: what is the benefit in doing this? There is no other method for somebody to say I looked at this and everything about it is correct. and then what is this info good for? just because someone claims it's correct? [ ... ] That makes it simpler for a mapper to use their time well when surveying. Having visited several mapping parties away from my normal mapping area, this would have been very helpful to indicate areas that are worth surveying. As compared to areas that were surveyed but not very interesting. There is also a commercial and marketing benefit. If you are providing services on top of the OpenStreetMap stack or if you want to promote the success of OpenStreetMap it is very helpful to be able to show a client or potential client the volume of checked data. it make editing with josm a real pain. there are 2 solutions. delete it on all ways as soon as data is downloaded to get rid of it Surely you aren't suggesting that you would falsify data that you submit to OpenStreetMap by claiming that you've checked it when you haven't? And you've missed at least two other solutions. - add this new tool to your mapping toolkit and continue to enjoy mapping. - ignore it as a rendering quirk in josm. or hack the josm source. Sure. both isn't too difficult for an experienced josm user but why should anyone need to? As a single data point, my josm (both 1529 and 1546) does not display the yellow unchecked border. So you could run those. Best regards, Richard ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Blame me for JOSM yellowness
On Apr 24, 2009, at 2:01 AM, Apollinaris Schoell wrote: the tiger data is terrible wrong in some places. And how do you know this? -- Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson r...@cloudmade.com - Twitter: Russ_OSM - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Blame me for JOSM yellowness
Perhaps there should just be a view option highlight unreviewed objects, and those that like this can turn it on and those that don't can not. if it's an option I wouldn't wast a second to write about the pro/con. why does anyone try to force users to do it? I have patched josm already but not every user knows how to do it. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Blame me for JOSM yellowness
On 24 Apr 2009, at 7:14 , Russ Nelson wrote: On Apr 24, 2009, at 2:01 AM, Apollinaris Schoell wrote: the tiger data is terrible wrong in some places. And how do you know this? 1. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37.379805lon=-122.166681zoom=18layers=B000FTF compare wit Yahoo, 2. http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=121u8tcs=5 this is a residential road imported from tiger. have fun to drive here Tomtom, Yahoo has removed it. Google, Garmin Topo still shows it. 3. http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?lat=37.38851lon=-122.1795zoom=17 check the admin borders from the recent tiger 2008 import against yahoo. Can't prove it but it's pretty obvious that borders match with other features like roads, parcel data, streams -- Russ Nelson - http://community.cloudmade.com/blog - http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:RussNelson r...@cloudmade.com - Twitter: Russ_OSM - http://openstreetmap.org/user/RussNelson ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Blame me for JOSM yellowness
apollinaris wrote: Perhaps there should just be a view option highlight unreviewed objects, and those that like this can turn it on and those that don't can not. if it's an option I wouldn't wast a second to write about the pro/con. why does anyone try to force users to do it? I have patched josm already but not every user knows how to do it. you sound very angry about this? it sounds like you could easily make the change to josm to make it an option, and everyone will benefit. paul =- paul fox, p...@foxharp.boston.ma.us (arlington, ma, where it's 62.6 degrees) ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Blame me for JOSM yellowness
my java knowledge is 0. can't patch it to make it an option. all I can is to remove the whole style and rebuild. anyone is free to remove this tag and I have done it in the past too but since then I realized it's just useless. why waste time if there is so much to work on? and I consider it really stupid if someone makes a decision to delete and reimport or any other automatic modification an area based on such a tag. On 24 Apr 2009, at 8:14 , Paul Fox wrote: apollinaris wrote: Perhaps there should just be a view option highlight unreviewed objects, and those that like this can turn it on and those that don't can not. if it's an option I wouldn't wast a second to write about the pro/ con. why does anyone try to force users to do it? I have patched josm already but not every user knows how to do it. you sound very angry about this? it sounds like you could easily make the change to josm to make it an option, and everyone will benefit. paul =- paul fox, p...@foxharp.boston.ma.us (arlington, ma, where it's 62.6 degrees) ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Blame me for JOSM yellowness
On Fri, 2009-04-24 at 09:40 -0700, Alan Millar wrote: If you don't like the tag, you don't have to use it. But I have been waiting for this highlighting feature for a long time, but never got around to figuring out enough in JOSM, so I am happy to see it. To each his own; there is room for all of us in this project. I'd also be very happy if JOSM flipped the tag for me when I edit a tiger object. It seems reasonable enough that if I'm editing something that we can consider it reviewed. I certainly don't want to have to go flip it manually every time I go fixing some minor road details. -- Dave ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Blame me for JOSM yellowness
I'd also be very happy if JOSM flipped the tag for me when I edit a tiger object. It seems reasonable enough that if I'm editing something that we can consider it reviewed. I certainly don't want to have to go flip it manually every time I go fixing some minor road details. Good idea. (I would personally prefer to be configurable. Sometimes I align a road from aerial photo but want to remind myself to actually visit it later because something in the photo is unclear, so I leave it at reviewed=no.) There are two things I do currently to help in the cleanup: search and presets. In JOSM, you can search on the word modified and it will select all items you modified. Select the tiger:reviewed tag and delete it. If any of the modified items didn't have the tag, it doesn't hurt anything. And of course, you can select a rectangular region on the screen and do the same tag edit. I also made myself some JOSM tag presets and stick them on the main button bar. In each one, I set the tiger:reviewed value to blank, which will delete the tag if it is there. Here are some examples of mine: presets item name=T_Rvw label text=Flag as Tiger data reviewed / key key=tiger:reviewed value= / /item item name=Svc_Drvwy label text=Flag as service=driveway / key key=highway value=service / key key=service value=driveway / key key=tiger:reviewed value= / /item item name=M_link label text=Flag as h=motorway_link,oneway=yes / key key=highway value=motorway_link / key key=oneway value=yes / key key=tiger:reviewed value= / /item and so on. So before uploading: Ctrl-FmodifiedEnterClick T_RviewEnter I wonder if I can shorten that even more? Hmm... - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Blame me for JOSM yellowness
On 24 Apr 2009, at 9:40 , Alan Millar wrote: can you give a single example where this info is helping? It may not help you anywhere. It helps me everywhere, in my personal mapping process. good for you, osm is free and this a good thing that we can do things the way we like it. is that a reason to force others to use the same work style? There is a completely valid third option you did not list: do like the rest of the planet. Completely delete the TIGER imported data in the area you surveyed. Start over from scratch with fresh GPS tracks and some Yahoo aerial photos. Of course, how will we know *that* is correct? Just because somebody claims it is? Hmm sure this is an option for areas no one else ever touched. otherwise this is vandalism or disrespect for the work of other mappers If you don't like the tag, you don't have to use it. But I have been waiting for this highlighting feature for a long time, but never got around to figuring out enough in JOSM, so I am happy to see it. To each his own; there is room for all of us in this project. repeat myself ... use it if you like it. perfect if it's an option or plugin. forcing every josm user to accept it is somewhere between ignorance and dictatorship - Alan ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] On the subject of TIGER
Since we are speaking of TIGER, the quality of the data seems to vary according to county - some are consistently good, others consistently poor. Has anyone looked at the TIGER 2008 data to see if it is better? We have some counties in Georgia that have poor TIGER data in OSM, and very few edits, so that the TIGER data could simply be replaced if a better source were available. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Americans going to the state of the map
On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 3:25 PM, Sarah Manley sa...@cloudmade.com wrote: Hello All, I am curious if anyone has signed up or has submitted a presentation to SOTM? I have been thinking about topics to submit, and thought maybe the SOTM of the US (including americanizing terms, TIGER data, mapping our complex freeways, and much more) would be interesting. Thoughts? Cheers, Sarah I was halfway through booking flights to go when I realized that I already have obligations elsewhere. Can we move SOTM to another week? :) ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] On the subject of TIGER
On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 1:50 PM, Dave Hansen d...@sr71.net wrote: On Fri, 2009-04-24 at 14:07 -0400, Rev. Theodore Book wrote: I just took a peak at the data, and noticed that it doesn't have any information on road category - how did you do that on the main import - simply by the name of the road? There's a concept in TIGER called a 'CFCC'. I have no idea what it stands for. :) Census Feature Classification Code They appear in all of the TIGER data, including the Place boundaries that I'm working on importing (Florida is currently being uploaded in 1000-item chunks; Texas got interrupted by the API switch and will have to be revisited later). The CFCCs don't do a good job of distinguishing residential from non-residential (through) streets in cities and conflate the highway network class with the functional classification (type) of roadway, but they're at least a first stab. And, there are some areas where the 2008 maps are a big improvement; there are others, however, where manual editing of old data has the maps better than 2008. Chris ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Blame me for JOSM yellowness
On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Russ Nelson r...@cloudmade.com wrote: On Apr 24, 2009, at 12:59 PM, Dave Hansen wrote: On Fri, 2009-04-24 at 09:40 -0700, Alan Millar wrote: If you don't like the tag, you don't have to use it. But I have been waiting for this highlighting feature for a long time, but never got around to figuring out enough in JOSM, so I am happy to see it. To each his own; there is room for all of us in this project. I'd also be very happy if JOSM flipped the tag for me when I edit a tiger object. Does anybody object to this? If not, I'll look at inserting special case code which removes tiger:reviewed when the way or any node it solely includes is edited in any way. Yes. I make plenty of edits to Tiger-imported data where all I'm doing is adding the way to a relation or moving a single node here and there. I certainly don't want to say I reviewed it when I make any change in JOSM at all. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Blame me for JOSM yellowness
Russ Nelson wrote: On Apr 24, 2009, at 12:59 PM, Dave Hansen wrote: I'd also be very happy if JOSM flipped the tag for me when I edit a tiger object. Does anybody object to this? If not, I'll look at inserting special case code which removes tiger:reviewed when the way or any node it solely includes is edited in any way. I do. I split a tiger way when I have reviewed a section of it to indicate which part I reviewed and which part I haven't. I can however see the utility of it. Go ahead and do so, but please make it configurable, so those that want to can, but those that don't won't have to. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Blame me for JOSM yellowness
On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 11:13 AM, Apollinaris Schoell ascho...@gmail.com wrote: 2. http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=121u8tcs=5 this is a residential road imported from tiger. have fun to drive here that does need surface condition and access tags. Maybe a bollard/chicane too. but if it's a recorded (right of) way, it's a very good thing to have it access=foot in our data until the developer finally paves it and people for the census to count in 2020 move in. removing it shows TomTom's assumption that there is only one use for GIS data, turn by torn go-to nagging. not so. -- Bill n1...@arrl.net bill.n1...@gmail.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Blame me for JOSM yellowness
On 24 Apr 2009, at 14:27 , Russ Nelson wrote: On Apr 24, 2009, at 1:26 PM, Apollinaris Schoell wrote: forcing every josm user to accept it is somewhere between ignorance and dictatorship Your argument, if true, is an argument against ANY change to JOSM. improvements are always welcome but breaking things for no good reason is bad. you didn't provide any good reason why this is useful for a larger group of people. the new commit message thing in Josm is annoying too but it is useful for all. it is only once per upload. You made the change without communicating it before. and when it was implemented send a not with blame me ... you asked for it! ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Blame me for JOSM yellowness
First I would like to say I think the highlighting is a good thing. As such I do not see why anyone is upset with it. But to make people happy, perhaps making it an option that defaults to being turned on would solve any issues people have. While this is tiger specific at the moment, I would thing that optionally applying similar tags to other imports might be of benefit. Especially if we could list and edit the tags that were used to trigger the highlighting. Alan, nice tips on the presets. I had not known about searching for modified items either. Both will make future edits easier. I don't think that JOSM should remove the reviewed tag automatically. Too many times I have changed only part of something that I would not claim as reviewed. At most I would make it a checkbox on the upload if there were reviewed tags. That still leaves it up to the person editing to only upload fully reviewed items when they check that. Alan's method is probably a better solution, and just needs to be publicized. Dale On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 11:24 PM, Apollinaris Schoell ascho...@gmail.com wrote: On 24 Apr 2009, at 14:27 , Russ Nelson wrote: On Apr 24, 2009, at 1:26 PM, Apollinaris Schoell wrote: forcing every josm user to accept it is somewhere between ignorance and dictatorship Your argument, if true, is an argument against ANY change to JOSM. improvements are always welcome but breaking things for no good reason is bad. you didn't provide any good reason why this is useful for a larger group of people. the new commit message thing in Josm is annoying too but it is useful for all. it is only once per upload. You made the change without communicating it before. and when it was implemented send a not with blame me ... you asked for it! ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Dale Puch ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Blame me for JOSM yellowness
On Fri, 2009-04-24 at 10:26 -0700, Apollinaris Schoell wrote: forcing every josm user to accept it is somewhere between ignorance and dictatorship Hi Apollinaris, I'd be happy to code up a custom version of JOSM for you that doesn't have the yellowness. I'd also be happy to looking into making it a persistent option so you can turn it off once in your preferences and never worry about it again. I can't guarantee anything about the base version of JOSM, but I can certainly customize it and share whatever I do with you. -- Dave ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Blame me for JOSM yellowness
Dave, have already done my customize version and removed it from the style file It's just not everyone can do it and you need a working build environment check out the source code ... Not even java knowledge required, a simple grep and an editor is enough this is definitely a feature some will like and others hate. If it can be activated/deactivated it's a nice to have. On 24 Apr 2009, at 21:38 , Dave Hansen wrote: On Fri, 2009-04-24 at 10:26 -0700, Apollinaris Schoell wrote: forcing every josm user to accept it is somewhere between ignorance and dictatorship Hi Apollinaris, I'd be happy to code up a custom version of JOSM for you that doesn't have the yellowness. I'd also be happy to looking into making it a persistent option so you can turn it off once in your preferences and never worry about it again. I can't guarantee anything about the base version of JOSM, but I can certainly customize it and share whatever I do with you. -- Dave ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
