Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] Long-distance scenic roads
Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com writes: In the US there are two long federally-maintained roads, the Blue Ridge Parkway and Natchez Trace Parkway, that were built for the sole purpose of sightseeing. Since they are surrounded by a narrow strip of parkland, access is only allowed at certain points, so they are technically expressways (normally trunk in the US). On the other hand, they are not intended in any way for utilitarian travel, and functionally fit approximately as secondary or tertiary. Tagging is thus inconsistent. It looks like the BRP was recently all changed to secondary, but the NTP has portions of residential (obvious BS) and primary. I'm pretty sure I've also seen trunk and tertiary used in the past. They probably should be secondary, as that conveys the right impression. On the other hand, some apparently non-local user has messed up tagging of Route 2 near Boston/Cambridge (from alewife to the science museum) and made them trunk when they obviously aren't (to anyone who has been on them - no limited access, constant at-grade intersections, frequent lights), so maybe you could look into and fix that too :-) http://osm.org/go/ZfI4nILQ- pgpUbNx9GMFqU.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] Long-distance scenic roads
Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com writes: In the US there are two long federally-maintained roads, the Blue Ridge Parkway and Natchez Trace Parkway, that were built for the sole purpose of sightseeing. Since they are surrounded by a narrow strip of parkland, access is only allowed at certain points, so they are technically expressways (normally trunk in the US). On the other hand, they are not intended in any way for utilitarian travel, and functionally fit approximately as secondary or tertiary. Tagging is thus inconsistent. It looks like the BRP was recently all changed to secondary, but the NTP has portions of residential (obvious BS) and primary. I'm pretty sure I've also seen trunk and tertiary used in the past. They probably should be secondary, as that conveys the right impression. On the other hand, some apparently non-local user has messed up tagging of Route 2 near Boston/Cambridge (from alewife to the science museum) and made them trunk when they obviously aren't (to anyone who has been on them - no limited access, constant at-grade intersections, frequent lights), so maybe you could look into and fix that too :-) http://osm.org/go/ZfI4nILQ- pgpBtPIZvbZCm.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] place=city name=Tri-Cities
Without knowing the area, I can only speculate that Tri-Cities is a locally common name for the entire metro, but assuming it is, I like the way it looks on Mapnik, so it seems like a case of tagging for the renderer. How about place=metro? More could be done with metro areas. For example, OSM Mapnik renders the Saint Paul label at a 'higher' level than Minneapolis. Is there some way to identify Minneapolis as the largest city of the metro area and Saint Paul as the Capitol of the State of Minnesota? I don't see anything in the Map Features tags that would allow this. Locally, the entire metro area is frequently known as The Twin Cities, and together Minneapolis and Saint Paul are a primate city. I don't know of a way to represent (data-wise) the metro areas as one single place. The result is, I'm now looking at a map with labels for Trenton, Wilmington, Newark, Huntington NY, and Stamford CT but not New York City and Philadelphia. A place=metro tag and relations would allow that - if the renderer so chose. Matt -Original Message- From: Nathan Edgars II [mailto:nerou...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 10:07 PM To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools; OpenStreetMap talk-us list Subject: [Talk-us] place=city name=Tri-Cities http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/876536239 There's no city named Tri-Cities; this is the name of the metropolitan area that comprises Pasco, Kennewick, and Richland. I assume there's no defensible reason to keep it tagged as such, but what should be done about it? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] place=city name=Tri-Cities
Officially, there are the Census Metropolitan Statistical Areas, which are roughly equivalent to many of the colloquially used metro areas. These are not administrative regions, although some may coincide with some administrative regions. I do think it would be valuable to somehow tag these areas. James On Thursday 24 February 2011 08:58:02 McGuire, Matthew wrote: Without knowing the area, I can only speculate that Tri-Cities is a locally common name for the entire metro, but assuming it is, I like the way it looks on Mapnik, so it seems like a case of tagging for the renderer. How about place=metro? More could be done with metro areas. For example, OSM Mapnik renders the Saint Paul label at a 'higher' level than Minneapolis. Is there some way to identify Minneapolis as the largest city of the metro area and Saint Paul as the Capitol of the State of Minnesota? I don't see anything in the Map Features tags that would allow this. Locally, the entire metro area is frequently known as The Twin Cities, and together Minneapolis and Saint Paul are a primate city. I don't know of a way to represent (data-wise) the metro areas as one single place. The result is, I'm now looking at a map with labels for Trenton, Wilmington, Newark, Huntington NY, and Stamford CT but not New York City and Philadelphia. A place=metro tag and relations would allow that - if the renderer so chose. Matt -Original Message- From: Nathan Edgars II [mailto:nerou...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 10:07 PM To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools; OpenStreetMap talk-us list Subject: [Talk-us] place=city name=Tri-Cities http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/876536239 There's no city named Tri-Cities; this is the name of the metropolitan area that comprises Pasco, Kennewick, and Richland. I assume there's no defensible reason to keep it tagged as such, but what should be done about it? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] place=city name=Tri-Cities
Another example is the Tri-Cities area in northeast Tennessee (Bristol, Kingsport, and Johnson City). Certain facilities, such as the Tri-Cities Airport, are shared. Road signs refer to both the Tri-Cities area and the individual cities. Since Bristol extends across the state line, administratively it is two cities, namely Bristol, Tennessee and Bristol, Virginia. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [Talk-us] place=city name=Tri-Cities From :mailto:jumba...@gmail.com Date :Thu Feb 24 08:19:55 America/Chicago 2011 Officially, there are the Census Metropolitan Statistical Areas, which are roughly equivalent to many of the colloquially used metro areas. These are not administrative regions, although some may coincide with some administrative regions. I do think it would be valuable to somehow tag these areas. James On Thursday 24 February 2011 08:58:02 McGuire, Matthew wrote: Without knowing the area, I can only speculate that Tri-Cities is a locally common name for the entire metro, but assuming it is, I like the way it looks on Mapnik, so it seems like a case of tagging for the renderer. How about place=metro? More could be done with metro areas. For example, OSM Mapnik renders the Saint Paul label at a 'higher' level than Minneapolis. Is there some way to identify Minneapolis as the largest city of the metro area and Saint Paul as the Capitol of the State of Minnesota? I don't see anything in the Map Features tags that would allow this. Locally, the entire metro area is frequently known as The Twin Cities, and together Minneapolis and Saint Paul are a primate city. I don't know of a way to represent (data-wise) the metro areas as one single place. The result is, I'm now looking at a map with labels for Trenton, Wilmington, Newark, Huntington NY, and Stamford CT but not New York City and Philadelphia. A place=metro tag and relations would allow that - if the renderer so chose. Matt -Original Message- From: Nathan Edgars II [mailto:nerou...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 10:07 PM To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools; OpenStreetMap talk-us list Subject: [Talk-us] place=city name=Tri-Cities http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/876536239 There's no city named Tri-Cities; this is the name of the metropolitan area that comprises Pasco, Kennewick, and Richland. I assume there's no defensible reason to keep it tagged as such, but what should be done about it? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] place=city name=Tri-Cities
Seems like out here in Kansas/Nebraska a lot of cities are a member of some tri-city region but I think it is almost always made up by the local weather man who just wants a quick way to refer to this area here while pointing at his magic green screen. It is nothing I would want to see on a map. For example I have often seen Kearney, Hastings and Grand Island called the tri-cities by local TV stations. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=40.821lon=-98.641zoom=9layers=M I think they may have a hockey team that is kind of a shared interest between the cities but other than that I don't think there is much interaction between them and I wouldn't see any need to enter this information into OSM. Toby On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 9:40 AM, j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: Another example is the Tri-Cities area in northeast Tennessee (Bristol, Kingsport, and Johnson City). Certain facilities, such as the Tri-Cities Airport, are shared. Road signs refer to both the Tri-Cities area and the individual cities. Since Bristol extends across the state line, administratively it is two cities, namely Bristol, Tennessee and Bristol, Virginia. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [Talk-us] place=city name=Tri-Cities From :mailto:jumba...@gmail.com Date :Thu Feb 24 08:19:55 America/Chicago 2011 Officially, there are the Census Metropolitan Statistical Areas, which are roughly equivalent to many of the colloquially used metro areas. These are not administrative regions, although some may coincide with some administrative regions. I do think it would be valuable to somehow tag these areas. James On Thursday 24 February 2011 08:58:02 McGuire, Matthew wrote: Without knowing the area, I can only speculate that Tri-Cities is a locally common name for the entire metro, but assuming it is, I like the way it looks on Mapnik, so it seems like a case of tagging for the renderer. How about place=metro? More could be done with metro areas. For example, OSM Mapnik renders the Saint Paul label at a 'higher' level than Minneapolis. Is there some way to identify Minneapolis as the largest city of the metro area and Saint Paul as the Capitol of the State of Minnesota? I don't see anything in the Map Features tags that would allow this. Locally, the entire metro area is frequently known as The Twin Cities, and together Minneapolis and Saint Paul are a primate city. I don't know of a way to represent (data-wise) the metro areas as one single place. The result is, I'm now looking at a map with labels for Trenton, Wilmington, Newark, Huntington NY, and Stamford CT but not New York City and Philadelphia. A place=metro tag and relations would allow that - if the renderer so chose. Matt -Original Message- From: Nathan Edgars II [mailto:nerou...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 10:07 PM To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools; OpenStreetMap talk-us list Subject: [Talk-us] place=city name=Tri-Cities http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/876536239 There's no city named Tri-Cities; this is the name of the metropolitan area that comprises Pasco, Kennewick, and Richland. I assume there's no defensible reason to keep it tagged as such, but what should be done about it? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] Long-distance scenic roads
On 2/24/2011 8:18 AM, Greg Troxel wrote: On the other hand, some apparently non-local user has messed up tagging of Route 2 near Boston/Cambridge (from alewife to the science museum) and made them trunk when they obviously aren't (to anyone who has been on them - no limited access, constant at-grade intersections, frequent lights), so maybe you could look into and fix that too :-) http://osm.org/go/ZfI4nILQ- I have been on Route 2 there, and it goes nowhere near the Science Museum. Memorial Drive etc. is trunk as in more major than primary. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] place=city name=Tri-Cities
I think some are legit. In the case of the Twin Cities, the area isn't just an urban agglomeration, it's major cities that are very tightly interconnected, socially, economically, and governmentally, in addition to geographically (and historically). When talking about the region, residents may use Twin Cities fairly interchangably with Minneapolis and St Paul. Another example is the Quad Cities in Illinois/Iowa: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quad_Cities http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quad_CitiesBrad On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Toby Murray toby.mur...@gmail.com wrote: Seems like out here in Kansas/Nebraska a lot of cities are a member of some tri-city region but I think it is almost always made up by the local weather man who just wants a quick way to refer to this area here while pointing at his magic green screen. It is nothing I would want to see on a map. For example I have often seen Kearney, Hastings and Grand Island called the tri-cities by local TV stations. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=40.821lon=-98.641zoom=9layers=M I think they may have a hockey team that is kind of a shared interest between the cities but other than that I don't think there is much interaction between them and I wouldn't see any need to enter this information into OSM. Toby On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 9:40 AM, j...@jfeldredge.com wrote: Another example is the Tri-Cities area in northeast Tennessee (Bristol, Kingsport, and Johnson City). Certain facilities, such as the Tri-Cities Airport, are shared. Road signs refer to both the Tri-Cities area and the individual cities. Since Bristol extends across the state line, administratively it is two cities, namely Bristol, Tennessee and Bristol, Virginia. ---Original Email--- Subject :Re: [Talk-us] place=city name=Tri-Cities From :mailto:jumba...@gmail.com Date :Thu Feb 24 08:19:55 America/Chicago 2011 Officially, there are the Census Metropolitan Statistical Areas, which are roughly equivalent to many of the colloquially used metro areas. These are not administrative regions, although some may coincide with some administrative regions. I do think it would be valuable to somehow tag these areas. James On Thursday 24 February 2011 08:58:02 McGuire, Matthew wrote: Without knowing the area, I can only speculate that Tri-Cities is a locally common name for the entire metro, but assuming it is, I like the way it looks on Mapnik, so it seems like a case of tagging for the renderer. How about place=metro? More could be done with metro areas. For example, OSM Mapnik renders the Saint Paul label at a 'higher' level than Minneapolis. Is there some way to identify Minneapolis as the largest city of the metro area and Saint Paul as the Capitol of the State of Minnesota? I don't see anything in the Map Features tags that would allow this. Locally, the entire metro area is frequently known as The Twin Cities, and together Minneapolis and Saint Paul are a primate city. I don't know of a way to represent (data-wise) the metro areas as one single place. The result is, I'm now looking at a map with labels for Trenton, Wilmington, Newark, Huntington NY, and Stamford CT but not New York City and Philadelphia. A place=metro tag and relations would allow that - if the renderer so chose. Matt -Original Message- From: Nathan Edgars II [mailto:nerou...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 10:07 PM To: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools; OpenStreetMap talk-us list Subject: [Talk-us] place=city name=Tri-Cities http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/876536239 There's no city named Tri-Cities; this is the name of the metropolitan area that comprises Pasco, Kennewick, and Richland. I assume there's no defensible reason to keep it tagged as such, but what should be done about it? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all. -- Hypatia of Alexandria ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] place=city name=Tri-Cities
On 2/24/2011 11:08 AM, Brad Neuhauser wrote: Another example is the Quad Cities in Illinois/Iowa: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quad_Cities Those same 4 cities also participate in an agglomeration known as the Quint Cities. As someone else noted, I hope this doesn't render on the default maps, but it wouldn't seem to be harmful being entered as a series of relations. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] place=city name=Tri-Cities
On 2/24/11 11:01 AM, Toby Murray wrote: Seems like out here in Kansas/Nebraska a lot of cities are a member of some tri-city region but I think it is almost always made up by the local weather man who just wants a quick way to refer to this area here while pointing at his magic green screen. It is nothing I would want to see on a map. i agree. tri-city is inherently local, generally unofficial and almost always meaningless information to non-locals. richard ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] Long-distance scenic roads
Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com writes: On 2/24/2011 8:18 AM, Greg Troxel wrote: On the other hand, some apparently non-local user has messed up tagging of Route 2 near Boston/Cambridge (from alewife to the science museum) and made them trunk when they obviously aren't (to anyone who has been on them - no limited access, constant at-grade intersections, frequent lights), so maybe you could look into and fix that too :-) Memorial Drive etc. is trunk as in more major than primary. That's not what trunk means - it's supposed to have significant motorway features, like some degree of limited access, very few lights, and very few at-grade intersections. There are bits of Memorial Drive that begin to approach that, but certainly the area around Alewife is no where close, and arguably none of it does. Also, it isn't more important than a US highway. It's a local commuting road, and hardly ever used for long-distance travel. pgpssZlPgZMO2.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] [Tagging] Long-distance scenic roads
On 2/24/2011 12:14 PM, Greg Troxel wrote: Nathan Edgars IInerou...@gmail.com writes: On 2/24/2011 8:18 AM, Greg Troxel wrote: On the other hand, some apparently non-local user has messed up tagging of Route 2 near Boston/Cambridge (from alewife to the science museum) and made them trunk when they obviously aren't (to anyone who has been on them - no limited access, constant at-grade intersections, frequent lights), so maybe you could look into and fix that too :-) Memorial Drive etc. is trunk as in more major than primary. That's not what trunk means - it's supposed to have significant motorway features, like some degree of limited access, very few lights, and very few at-grade intersections. There are bits of Memorial Drive that begin to approach that, but certainly the area around Alewife is no where close, and arguably none of it does. That's *one* thing trunk means. Trunk is also used as a higher classification than primary. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Fwd: Re: Long-distance scenic roads
These two are probably the best known of such roads, but there are others. --In the 1920s, the Lincoln Highway was established across the United States to promote auto travel (it seems to have succeeded). Portions were financed by oil companies. The route was refined several times over the years, but it is still marked in many places. The route follows everything from interstates to dirt roads (at a few places out west). It even has a Web site. --There's also the beautiful George Washington Parkway, which leads from Washington, D.C., to Mount Vernon. It also was constructed like the Blue Ridge and is lined with park land. Its route changes from interstate to parkway to residential road at the end. --Of course there's Route 66. --What about historic rail routes? There's the Orient Express in Europe, and, for example, the City of New Orleans (recently revived) in the United States. As for tags, shouldn't they be tagged for the actual way, no matter what the route? Then, given that these are historically or scenically important, is there some way to tag them with something like a historic or scenic route tag? Charlotte Wolter X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-RR-Connecting-IP: 64.202.189.195 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=HPeJdz9Dh37wsH6AO4tchJFh6NNWUx/LVR2ql1pkMIE= c=1 sm=0 a=5vRaiVmFr28A:10 a=BLceEmwcHowA:10 a=wPDyFdB5xvgA:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=6ydbDpixB9c9jtIM301iOw==:17 a=pGLkceIS:8 a=Ktvh6Ry_MxqCV24WW_AA:9 a=tuBLbnf7XY3kMGiFUdcA:7 a=v4PzN-ZFIKnWRMzHF4m6Zq0swAQA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:10 a=3z0OjQsHwcmtInjbYmAA:9 a=GXQ_qEaXNOQI2NX8fDUA:7 a=vHKTSISMqtZsoerjOaiqEkthj1kA:4 a=595fbENk:8 a=w4L8CiaNGqUigYjJ2EEA:9 a=fdQzLMz03tpqdFq0Xbvz22VBiYAA:4 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=BdHZsLrCs2gA:10 a=lAHEQFpRNVJGFGmHE9Im4w==:117 Delivered-To: techl...@techlady.com X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AmkBAGNTZU1ZELOWkWdsb2JhbACmFwgVAQECCQsKBxEEIKFtihuCHIRxL4haAQEDBYVZBIUPhXeBEoZLgX06 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=UPxg8hZGLe6bre87Xef364GxpZg36X612YlgogjzjXs=; b=tj4oQCGQG+/tCAHwgIrruV9nMPlKE7wB8ewxItgqQjnkeRs27R1ABM1Z7D4tsQK7WB FTdHcXJxLc+GCTVBEqbwbksr3SOmyb2q/3IYI3qQeCuOUevdv8Z/wExvUznHB2h+CG5r 5wfkUJkRKZyAWQvF8AFiQvPHfIYOgVOIyBJJc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=sFBEN1QG8r/m3xuzxHzoZbkOr2P63hk/MRL2BAwU8B7Xmcq5jZz3+Qn5UD+h4W/UV5 71jyzcToYSj0kzpbSTMCeJqcH47Q+XJvsKuT1zs3Vg0alhTZJhmut/Xj6UTK24DpOawT pPJMTlhiloVfKc2/HLG6Vtlvipj2RqC8/99i4= Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 20:46:21 -0600 From: Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com To: Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com Cc: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools tagg...@openstreetmap.org, OpenStreetMap talk-us list talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Long-distance scenic roads X-BeenThere: talk-us@openstreetmap.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 List-Id: talk-us.openstreetmap.org List-Unsubscribe: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/options/talk-us, mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=unsubscribe List-Archive: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us List-Post: mailto:talk-us@openstreetmap.org List-Help: mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=help List-Subscribe: http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us, mailto:talk-us-requ...@openstreetmap.org?subject=subscribe They should be part of a route relation. On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 8:40 PM, Nathan Edgars II mailto:nerou...@gmail.comnerou...@gmail.com wrote: In the US there are two long federally-maintained roads, the Blue Ridge Parkway and Natchez Trace Parkway, that were built for the sole purpose of sightseeing. Since they are surrounded by a narrow strip of parkland, access is only allowed at certain points, so they are technically expressways (normally trunk in the US). On the other hand, they are not intended in any way for utilitarian travel, and functionally fit approximately as secondary or tertiary. Tagging is thus inconsistent. It looks like the BRP was recently all changed to secondary, but the NTP has portions of residential (obvious BS) and primary. I'm pretty sure I've also seen trunk and tertiary used in the past. Does anyone have an opinion on how these should be handled? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service,
Re: [Talk-us] Fwd: Re: Long-distance scenic roads
On 2/24/2011 6:44 PM, Charlotte Wolter wrote: These two are probably the best known of such roads, but there are others. --In the 1920s, the Lincoln Highway was established across the United States to promote auto travel (it seems to have succeeded). Portions were financed by oil companies. The route was refined several times over the years, but it is still marked in many places. The route follows everything from interstates to dirt roads (at a few places out west). It even has a Web site. --Of course there's Route 66. These are different. They were pieced together from existing roads, and still serve as local roads, so classifications can be assigned in the same way as we do for other roads (possibly involving chicken entrails). On the other hand, the BRP and NTP are solely intended for scenic driving (with the possible exception of some parts of the BRP that provide access to isolated (?) secondary routes). --There's also the beautiful George Washington Parkway, which leads from Washington, D.C., to Mount Vernon. It also was constructed like the Blue Ridge and is lined with park land. Its route changes from interstate to parkway to residential road at the end. This is more like the BRP and NTP, but it was likely designed as a dual-purpose scenic road and commuter route. Even if its initial purpose was entirely scenic, today it is a major commuter route, so it can be classified normally. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: Long-distance scenic roads
On 2/24/2011 6:44 PM, Charlotte Wolter wrote: These two are probably the best known of such roads, but there are others. --In the 1920s, the Lincoln Highway was established across the United States to promote auto travel (it seems to have succeeded). Portions were financed by oil companies. The route was refined several times over the years, but it is still marked in many places. The route follows everything from interstates to dirt roads (at a few places out west). It even has a Web site. --Of course there's Route 66. These are different. They were pieced together from existing roads, and still serve as local roads, so classifications can be assigned in the same way as we do for other roads (possibly involving chicken entrails). On the other hand, the BRP and NTP are solely intended for scenic driving (with the possible exception of some parts of the BRP that provide access to isolated (?) secondary routes). --There's also the beautiful George Washington Parkway, which leads from Washington, D.C., to Mount Vernon. It also was constructed like the Blue Ridge and is lined with park land. Its route changes from interstate to parkway to residential road at the end. This is more like the BRP and NTP, but it was likely designed as a dual-purpose scenic road and commuter route. Even if its initial purpose was entirely scenic, today it is a major commuter route, so it can be classified normally. I wonder if we are making a distinction that's not important. I think it is much more important to identify historical or scenic routes clearly than to highlight the distinction of being constructed just for sightseeing. Many U.S. highway maps do identify scenic routes, usually with a line of dots beside the route. That's very useful. Some identify historical routes, like Route 66, with shields, also useful. By the way, isn't the Natchez Trace now also a major route of travel? Charlotte Wolter 927 18th Street Suite A Santa Monica, California 90403 +1-310-597-4040 techl...@techlady.com The Four Internet Freedoms Freedom to visit any site on the Internet Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would affect the first three freedoms. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Fwd: Re: Long-distance scenic roads
On 2/24/11 6:44 PM, Charlotte Wolter wrote: These two are probably the best known of such roads, but there are others. --In the 1920s, the Lincoln Highway was established across the United States to promote auto travel (it seems to have succeeded). Portions were financed by oil companies. The route was refined several times over the years, but it is still marked in many places. The route follows everything from interstates to dirt roads (at a few places out west). It even has a Web site. the Lincoln highway was different (as another pointed out.) it was the original US 30. US 30 has been rerouted in many places, but as you say the original Lincoln Highway has been marked in many places (my grandmother Welty used to be a prominent figure in Nevada, Iowa's celebration of Lincoln Highway Days each year. for those like her who saw the impact of the new highway through town, it was of incredible importance; its existence changed everything.) but it can be tagged using normal methods, and really just requires a relation (multiple, one per state with a super, i think) to indicate its route and historical meaning. --There's also the beautiful George Washington Parkway, which leads from Washington, D.C., to Mount Vernon. It also was constructed like the Blue Ridge and is lined with park land. Its route changes from interstate to parkway to residential road at the end. and the Colonial Parkway from Williamsburg VA to Yorktown VA (i'm on vacation in Williamsburg right now, and so that road has some of my attention.) --Of course there's Route 66. --What about historic rail routes? There's the Orient Express in Europe, and, for example, the City of New Orleans (recently revived) in the United States. not sure i'd tag by the train routings, they change, but there are certainly historic trackage lines which deserve recognition. however, this leads on a path where we might be better with some sort of mashup overlay rather than embedding too much historic info in the base OSM database. As for tags, shouldn't they be tagged for the actual way, no matter what the route? Then, given that these are historically or scenically important, is there some way to tag them with something like a historic or scenic route tag? i'd suggest a package of scenic and/or historic tags for route relations. that's a mechanism we already have support for. richard ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] place=city name=Tri-Cities
On 02/24/2011 07:58 AM, McGuire, Matthew wrote: Without knowing the area, I can only speculate that Tri-Cities is a locally common name for the entire metro, but assuming it is, I like the way it looks on Mapnik, so it seems like a case of tagging for the renderer. How about place=metro? For all practical purposes, Kennewick, Pasco and Richland are boroughs of the same city, though not legally so in that respect. Until you're actually in the Tri-Cities area, it's rare to see official signage actually point out any of the three cities involved independently, and even within the Tri-Cities metro area (which is roughly everything in a 100 mile radius considering that Umatilla and La Grande are considered part of the Tri Cities area), you'd be hard pressed to find someone who is actually aware that it's three different cities and not one (I thought those were just neighborhoods!), or can name the three cities (You mean Tri-Cities isn't it's name? Why is it on all the signs that way?). To compare this to Minneapolis-St. Paul, it would be as if most people in those two cities and almost everyone outside them only knew both as one larger city called Twin Cities. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Fwd: Re: Fwd: Re: Long-distance scenic roads
On 2/24/2011 7:40 PM, Charlotte Wolter wrote: I wonder if we are making a distinction that's not important. I think it is much more important to identify historical or scenic routes clearly than to highlight the distinction of being constructed just for sightseeing. I agree (at least for special renderings). But the question is not how to identify that they're scenic, but how to classify them in a system that's based on utilitarian importance. Many U.S. highway maps do identify scenic routes, usually with a line of dots beside the route. That's very useful. Some identify historical routes, like Route 66, with shields, also useful. By the way, isn't the Natchez Trace now also a major route of travel? I'm not sure, but it certainly could be with a speed limit of 50 mph (I had thought it was lower). So I guess the problem only applies to the BRP, which is 45 mph but much curvier than the alternates. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Long-distance scenic roads
On 02/24/2011 11:30 AM, Nathan Edgars II wrote: That's not what trunk means - it's supposed to have significant motorway features, like some degree of limited access, very few lights, and very few at-grade intersections. There are bits of Memorial Drive that begin to approach that, but certainly the area around Alewife is no where close, and arguably none of it does. That's *one* thing trunk means. Trunk is also used as a higher classification than primary. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Trunk signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] place=city name=Tri-Cities
On 2/24/2011 8:16 PM, Paul Johnson wrote: Until you're actually in the Tri-Cities area, it's rare to see official signage actually point out any of the three cities involved independently, Have signs changed recently? On the photos on http://www.interstate-guide.com/i-082.html I see Kennewick signed on the exit from I-84 westbound and on a mileage sign on I-82 westbound, but nothing for Tri-Cities. Similarly, signs in Yakima say Richland: http://images.wsdot.wa.gov/StateRoute/PictureLog/2009/SC/082/M/M/I/03/PM/03751PM.JPG ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Boston parkways, was Re: Long-distance scenic roads
On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 11:09 AM, Nathan Edgars II nerou...@gmail.com wrote: I have been on Route 2 there, and it goes nowhere near the Science Museum. Yes, that's correct. Route numbers do not need to follow named roads. That road's changing names numbers are never ending source of local trivia and can confuse even local OSMers. In Greg's defense, his daily commute uses the other part of Rt 2 in Cambridge. Rt 2 leaves Rt 3 as 3 becomes Mem Drive, 2 then crosses into Boston; US Rt 3 S diverges from MA Rt 16 W and continues on easterly on Mem Drive and turns into MA Rt 3 at 2A (Mass Ave?) before it crosses Longfellow Bridge aka Salt'n'Pepper Bridge into Boston (to followed by 1-93 to Rt 128) - If Land Blvd which extends to MOS.ORG dam and the Prison Pt Bridge has any route designation, I'm unaware of it. OSM seems correct on this. This inter-leaving of US 2, US/MA 3, MA16, and US 20 and MA 9 is simplified in the folksonomy. To add to the difficulty the emerald necklace MDC Parkways have the obvious continuity even though they change name frequently and rarely carry a route # for long. The parkways that for a time carried US 1 S had it re-routed along I-93 S and one exit of I-95 N and are no longer even badged 1A, though some US 1 signs are as yet out there. [ https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/U.S._Route_1_in_Massachusetts#Relocation_in_Boston ] -- Bill @n1vux bill.n1...@gmail.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
