Re: [Talk-us] Using MapRoulette for imports

2012-12-18 Thread Richard Welty

On 12/18/12 9:51 PM, Brian DeRocher wrote:
Food for thought... Imagine we performed a large data import into a 
side table, then used MapRoulette to overlay that data on OSM, allow 
users to review additions, and import features one at a time.  Would 
that be better?



this could work for some imports. there might be timeliness and QC issues
for others, though.

richard


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[Talk-us] Using MapRoulette for imports

2012-12-18 Thread Brian DeRocher
Food for thought... Imagine we performed a large data import into a side 
table, then used MapRoulette to overlay that data on OSM, allow users to 
review additions, and import features one at a time.  Would that be better?


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Re: [Talk-us] Imports and Large Edit Committee Meeting 12/20

2012-12-18 Thread JasonWoof
> http://code.google.com/p/openmeetings/
> http://incubator.apache.org/openmeetings/

I am not interested in installing proprietary software. Especially
not Flash, with such a horrifyingly insecure/buggy history.

I assume there are a decent amount of OSM folks are also free
software people, so I don't think I'm alone in this stand.

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Re: [Talk-us] Imports and Large Edit Committee Meeting 12/20

2012-12-18 Thread Philip Barnes
IRC

On Tue, 2012-12-18 at 09:16 -0500, Kathleen Danielson wrote:
> Hi Greg,
> 
> That's an interesting point. What alternatives would you suggest for
> virtual meetings?
> 
> KD
> 
> On Dec 18, 2012 8:56 AM, "Greg Troxel"  wrote:
> 
>   Or if you'd like to join, and Google+ is a problem, please
> drop me a line.
> 
> I object to the use of google anything.  That requires people
> to agree
> to their privacy policies in order to participate in OSM, and
> I think
> OSM should have a policy against such requirement or
> encouragement.
> (That said, I'm unlikely able to show up synchronously to
> things anyway.)
> 
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Re: [Talk-us] Imports and Mass Edits in the US

2012-12-18 Thread Frederik Ramm

Hi,

On 18.12.2012 18:21, Jeff Meyer wrote:

To me, "imports" are any bulk transfer of data from an existing data
source into OSM. They can be big (10's of 1000's of nodes) or small
(10-40 nodes); they can be mechanized, curated (reviewed by eye and
hand), or otherwise. I'm not sure a different name will help other than
to create a faux taxonomy. If it looks like a duck


See, that's wheat I meant. I would like the working group to consider 
OTHER uses of third party data than the "bulk transfer of data..." that 
you mentioned above. What you mention above clearly deserves the name 
"import". But it is by far not the only way in which 3rd party data can 
be used in OSM.


Bye
Frederik

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Re: [Talk-us] Kathleen starting with community outreach for OSM-US

2012-12-18 Thread Martijn van Exel
Kathleen,

Are you aware of http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User_group ?

I think the most interesting part is the User Groups wiki template,
which if used on a wiki page (example:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Salt_Lake_City,_Utah ) makes your
local UG appear on this here map:
http://usergroups.openstreetmap.de/?zoom=5&lat=39.23225&lon=-94.76806&layers=B0TTT

Also, a lot of US local groups are on meetup:
http://www.meetup.com/find/?keywords=openstreetmap&radius=Infinity but
I'm sure you're aware of that because GeoDC is on there as well ;)

Good luck and let us know what you need!

Martijn

On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 10:57 AM, Kathleen Danielson
 wrote:
> Hey Everyone--
>
> I'm really excited to work more with the local OSM groups in the coming
> weeks and months. My first plan is to do research on what communities are
> already out there and figure out how OSM-US can be supporting each of you.
> I'm also really interested in how the different local groups might connect
> with each other as well back to the US Chapter itself. I'm really excited to
> highlight the great work that all of you are doing, and share best
> practices/lessons learned with other communities around the country.
>
> Like Alex said, those of you who are running a local community should expect
> to hear from me soon, but don't hesitate to reach out to me sooner if you
> want to and get the conversation started!
>
> KD
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 11:54 AM, Alex Barth  wrote:
>>
>>
>> If you're running a local OSM community you'll probably hear soon from
>> Kathleen (copied).
>>
>> Kathleen's going to start with community outreach for the OpenStreetMap US
>> chapter. Her first goals will be to find out who's active where [1] and find
>> good ways of featuring that on our calendar [2] and blog [3]. Showing what's
>> going on in OSM in the US will be a great start for building more momentum
>> here and inspire others to get out mapping. I'm sure there will be more good
>> stuff we can do to grow and connect our communities better that we will find
>> out in the course of her work.
>>
>> Kathleen's doing awesome work here in DC co-organizing the @Geo_DC meetups
>> so I'm stoked that she is volunteering her skills for OSM-US work. Get in
>> touch with her if you're interested in OSM community work and in general,
>> never be shy to ask around if you'd like to start working on something in
>> OSM but aren't quite sure where to start :) Aside from your local meetup
>> [1], the virtual mappy hours [2] are a good place to meet more people or
>> just drop me an email.
>>
>> [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_United_States
>> [2] http://www.openstreetmap.us/calendar/
>> [3] http://openstreetmap.us/
>>
>> Kathleen on OSM: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/KathleenLD
>> Kathleen on Twitter: https://twitter.com/KathleenLD
>>
>> Alex Barth
>> (OpenStreetMap US Secretary)
>> http://twitter.com/lxbarth
>> tel (+1) 202 250 3633
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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>



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Re: [Talk-us] Imports and Large Edit Committee Meeting 12/20

2012-12-18 Thread Martijn van Exel
Looks promising. How many people can participate in a video call using
this? Does it require (proprietary) plug-ins?
If it meets basic functional and technical requirements (up to 10
people in a video call, no proprietary plugins required, no weird or
excessive server requirements, some form of recording /logging) and
someone is willing to put in the work to get it set up we should give
it a try.

On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Brian DeRocher  wrote:
> blink blink
>
> http://code.google.com/p/openmeetings/
> http://incubator.apache.org/openmeetings/
>
> I hope this works as well as Apache Wave, which i was impressed with.
>
> Brian
>
> --
> http://brian.derocher.org
> http://mappingdc.org
> http://about.me/brian.derocher
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Imports and Large Edit Committee Meeting 12/20

2012-12-18 Thread Brian DeRocher
blink blink

http://code.google.com/p/openmeetings/
http://incubator.apache.org/openmeetings/

I hope this works as well as Apache Wave, which i was impressed with.

Brian

-- 
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Re: [Talk-us] Kathleen starting with community outreach for OSM-US

2012-12-18 Thread Kathleen Danielson
Hey Everyone--

I'm really excited to work more with the local OSM groups in the coming
weeks and months. My first plan is to do research on what communities are
already out there and figure out how OSM-US can be supporting each of you.
I'm also really interested in how the different local groups might connect
with each other as well back to the US Chapter itself. I'm really excited
to highlight the great work that all of you are doing, and share best
practices/lessons learned with other communities around the country.

Like Alex said, those of you who are running a local community should
expect to hear from me soon, but don't hesitate to reach out to me sooner
if you want to and get the conversation started!

KD


On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 11:54 AM, Alex Barth  wrote:

>
> If you're running a local OSM community you'll probably hear soon from
> Kathleen (copied).
>
> Kathleen's going to start with community outreach for the OpenStreetMap US
> chapter. Her first goals will be to find out who's active where [1] and
> find good ways of featuring that on our calendar [2] and blog [3]. Showing
> what's going on in OSM in the US will be a great start for building more
> momentum here and inspire others to get out mapping. I'm sure there will be
> more good stuff we can do to grow and connect our communities better that
> we will find out in the course of her work.
>
> Kathleen's doing awesome work here in DC co-organizing the @Geo_DC meetups
> so I'm stoked that she is volunteering her skills for OSM-US work. Get in
> touch with her if you're interested in OSM community work and in general,
> never be shy to ask around if you'd like to start working on something in
> OSM but aren't quite sure where to start :) Aside from your local meetup
> [1], the virtual mappy hours [2] are a good place to meet more people or
> just drop me an email.
>
> [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_United_States
> [2] http://www.openstreetmap.us/calendar/
> [3] http://openstreetmap.us/
>
> Kathleen on OSM: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/KathleenLD
> Kathleen on Twitter: https://twitter.com/KathleenLD
>
> Alex Barth
> (OpenStreetMap US Secretary)
> http://twitter.com/lxbarth
> tel (+1) 202 250 3633
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Imports and Large Edit Committee Meeting 12/20

2012-12-18 Thread Brian DeRocher
Greg,

I agree with you regarding google privacy.

One alternative is XMPP (jabber) + Jingle [1][2].  This is after all what 
Google Talk and Hangouts is based on [3].

[1] http://wiki.xmpp.org:12480/web/Tech_pages/Jingle
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingle_%28protocol%29
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xmpp#Extensions

I run an XMPP server (ejabberd) and I'd be willing to work on a video 
experiment.  Anyone who is interested can email me directly.

Brian

-- 
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Re: [Talk-us] Imports and Large Edit Committee Meeting 12/20

2012-12-18 Thread Martijn van Exel
Greg,

It's hard to strike a balance between being as inclusive, as
productive, and as budget conscious as possible. For example, the US
Chapter board uses Google Hangouts extensively because we believe that
this service represents a sweet spot in that balance right now. That
said, we are always aware of the concerns people may have with regard
to Google's terms and privacy policy, and we will always keep an open
mind to alternatives.
IRC does not cut it for me personally, the limitations compared to a
video conference stand in the way of productivity.

Martijn

On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 9:22 AM, Greg Troxel  wrote:
>
> Kathleen Danielson  writes:
>
>> Hi Greg,
>>
>> That's an interesting point. What alternatives would you suggest for
>> virtual meetings?
>>
>> KD
>
> I do not know of alternatives.  In open source groups I participate in,
> it's email and IRC.  At work, we pay for phone bridges (audio only), but
> I realize that has cost implications.
>
> From my view, Faustian bargains should be rejected, and then the best
> choices picked from what remains.  (The existence of a useful service
> with bad privacy properties doesn't change how I look at the rest of the
> options.)  I realize I'm probably an outlier, but I wanted to speak up.
>
> Greg
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Imports and Mass Edits in the US

2012-12-18 Thread Jeff Meyer
To me, "imports" are any bulk transfer of data from an existing data source
into OSM. They can be big (10's of 1000's of nodes) or small (10-40 nodes);
they can be mechanized, curated (reviewed by eye and hand), or otherwise.
I'm not sure a different name will help other than to create a faux
taxonomy. If it looks like a duck

* How will this import improve the community mapping effort?
>

This first question might best be asked last, as much of the answer to this
questions should be contained in answers to questions about the targeted
import data and planned import process.

Plus, asking this first is fairly aggressive. Someone has taken the time to
get involved in OSM, to identify a data set, and to come forward to ask
permission. Clearly, they have some idea that this would be beneficial.
Listen first. Hear them out. Presume innocence.

Last, this is a qualitative, subjective question with widely varying
opinions and interpretations across the OSM community. Why derail the
review on first question?

* Would it perhaps be better to "mix and match" this data at the rendering
> stage, rather than adding it to OSM, since this data is unlikely to be
> edited by anyone anyway? (An extreme example for this is height contours -
> nobody would dream of uploading them into OSM, yet many a novice will
> mistakenly think "it has to go into OSM to be on the map, right?")
>
> * Would it perhaps be better to stick this data into a WMS/WFS/Snapshot
> server/... and offer it to the mapper community as an additional data
> source instead of importing it outright?
>

This is a great question. OSM could help inform potential importers prepare
for this question by describing what types of data OSM *is* good at - e.g.
roads, buildings, addresses, POIs, land *areas*, whatever

I think that, when confronted with new third-party data sources, many
> people have a knee-jerk "let's import that" reaction which experienced
> OSMers should counterbalance by asking questions like the above.


To improve efficiency and reduce frustration, we should document those
questions so that the people planning an import have a chance to prepare
answers to the questions before submitting ideas to the committee. I'll be
adding many of the questions from this recent thread to the wiki (not that
that's the perfect answer... just to record the data outside of email
archives...)




On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 8:21 AM, Serge Wroclawski  wrote:

> Frederik,
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 11:16 AM, Frederik Ramm 
> wrote:
>
> > I'm keen on the "import process" including a number of "exit lanes" - it
> > should ask questions like:
> > questions like:
>
> We talked about this a bit last night; I agree. Many times an import
> isn't useful for one or another reason. It could be license related,
> or data quality, or the data doesn't belong in OSM, etc.
>
> > I would be happy if your working group would embrace this idea and find a
> > name that doesn't explicitly say "imports" - what we need is people who
> help
> > with the responsible use of third party data for the benefit of OSM -
> which
> > might occasionally mean an import, but many other things as well.
>
> Name ideas welcome.
>
> I was hoping that large automated imports (like the tiger expansion)
> would be included, but maybe you're saying they're separate problems?
>
> - Serge
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Imports and Large Edit Committee Meeting 12/20

2012-12-18 Thread Serge Wroclawski
On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Greg Troxel  wrote:

> I do not know of alternatives.  In open source groups I participate in,
> it's email and IRC.  At work, we pay for phone bridges (audio only), but
> I realize that has cost implications.

It's both costly (monitarily) but also, I've found video conferences
work a lot better. You get a lot of information about someone from
their face, and non-verbal cues help drive the conversation.

> From my view, Faustian bargains should be rejected, and then the best
> choices picked from what remains.  (The existence of a useful service
> with bad privacy properties doesn't change how I look at the rest of the
> options.)  I realize I'm probably an outlier, but I wanted to speak up.

I think that the option to allow outsiders to participate using the
phone is a reasonable alternative, as they can be spared the use of
the proprietary technology.

As you said you aren't going to be able to make it next time, I don't
think this will be a problem. If someone attending has an issue with
Google+ and or the telephone, then we'll have to figure out what to
do, but I'd like to stay focused on keeping things moving forward.

- Serge
>
> Greg
>
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[Talk-us] Kathleen starting with community outreach for OSM-US

2012-12-18 Thread Alex Barth

If you're running a local OSM community you'll probably hear soon from Kathleen 
(copied).

Kathleen's going to start with community outreach for the OpenStreetMap US 
chapter. Her first goals will be to find out who's active where [1] and find 
good ways of featuring that on our calendar [2] and blog [3]. Showing what's 
going on in OSM in the US will be a great start for building more momentum here 
and inspire others to get out mapping. I'm sure there will be more good stuff 
we can do to grow and connect our communities better that we will find out in 
the course of her work.

Kathleen's doing awesome work here in DC co-organizing the @Geo_DC meetups so 
I'm stoked that she is volunteering her skills for OSM-US work. Get in touch 
with her if you're interested in OSM community work and in general, never be 
shy to ask around if you'd like to start working on something in OSM but aren't 
quite sure where to start :) Aside from your local meetup [1], the virtual 
mappy hours [2] are a good place to meet more people or just drop me an email.

[1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_United_States
[2] http://www.openstreetmap.us/calendar/
[3] http://openstreetmap.us/

Kathleen on OSM: http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/KathleenLD
Kathleen on Twitter: https://twitter.com/KathleenLD

Alex Barth
(OpenStreetMap US Secretary)
http://twitter.com/lxbarth
tel (+1) 202 250 3633





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Re: [Talk-us] Imports and Large Edit Committee Meeting 12/20

2012-12-18 Thread Greg Troxel

Kathleen Danielson  writes:

> Hi Greg,
>
> That's an interesting point. What alternatives would you suggest for
> virtual meetings?
>
> KD

I do not know of alternatives.  In open source groups I participate in,
it's email and IRC.  At work, we pay for phone bridges (audio only), but
I realize that has cost implications.

From my view, Faustian bargains should be rejected, and then the best
choices picked from what remains.  (The existence of a useful service
with bad privacy properties doesn't change how I look at the rest of the
options.)  I realize I'm probably an outlier, but I wanted to speak up.

Greg


pgp1ZRnWOdafU.pgp
Description: PGP signature
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Re: [Talk-us] Imports and Mass Edits in the US

2012-12-18 Thread Serge Wroclawski
Frederik,


On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 11:16 AM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

> I'm keen on the "import process" including a number of "exit lanes" - it
> should ask questions like:
> questions like:

We talked about this a bit last night; I agree. Many times an import
isn't useful for one or another reason. It could be license related,
or data quality, or the data doesn't belong in OSM, etc.

> I would be happy if your working group would embrace this idea and find a
> name that doesn't explicitly say "imports" - what we need is people who help
> with the responsible use of third party data for the benefit of OSM - which
> might occasionally mean an import, but many other things as well.

Name ideas welcome.

I was hoping that large automated imports (like the tiger expansion)
would be included, but maybe you're saying they're separate problems?

- Serge

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Re: [Talk-us] Imports and Mass Edits in the US

2012-12-18 Thread Frederik Ramm

Hi,

On 17.12.2012 18:47, Serge Wroclawski wrote:

I'm suggesting a different approach, one where you have a proposed
importer saying "I have this data", they then take it to a
committee/working group who has been blessed by the community to help
with this process.


I'm keen on the "import process" including a number of "exit lanes" - it 
should ask questions like:

questions like:

* How will this import improve the community mapping effort?

* Would it perhaps be better to "mix and match" this data at the 
rendering stage, rather than adding it to OSM, since this data is 
unlikely to be edited by anyone anyway? (An extreme example for this is 
height contours - nobody would dream of uploading them into OSM, yet 
many a novice will mistakenly think "it has to go into OSM to be on the 
map, right?")


* Would it perhaps be better to stick this data into a WMS/WFS/Snapshot 
server/... and offer it to the mapper community as an additional data 
source instead of importing it outright?


I think that, when confronted with new third-party data sources, many 
people have a knee-jerk "let's import that" reaction which experienced 
OSMers should counterbalance by asking questions like the above.


I would be happy if your working group would embrace this idea and find 
a name that doesn't explicitly say "imports" - what we need is people 
who help with the responsible use of third party data for the benefit of 
OSM - which might occasionally mean an import, but many other things as 
well.


Bye
Frederik

--
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Re: [Talk-us] Imports and Large Edit Committee Meeting 12/20

2012-12-18 Thread Martijn van Exel
The Hangout moderator can dial folks in on a regular phone (cell /
landline). You don't need to have any Google footprint to use this
function as far as I know. You just need to provide your number to
Serge and he can add you at the beginning of the call.

I am glad that Google offers this, because while Hangouts work great,
I appreciate folks not wanting to create a footprint with Google, and
this offers a way for them to participate.

Martijn

On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 7:16 AM, Kathleen Danielson
 wrote:
> Hi Greg,
>
> That's an interesting point. What alternatives would you suggest for virtual
> meetings?
>
> KD
>
> On Dec 18, 2012 8:56 AM, "Greg Troxel"  wrote:
>>
>>
>>   Or if you'd like to join, and Google+ is a problem, please drop me a
>> line.
>>
>> I object to the use of google anything.  That requires people to agree
>> to their privacy policies in order to participate in OSM, and I think
>> OSM should have a policy against such requirement or encouragement.
>> (That said, I'm unlikely able to show up synchronously to things anyway.)
>>
>> ___
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>
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Re: [Talk-us] Imports and Large Edit Committee Meeting 12/20

2012-12-18 Thread Kathleen Danielson
Hi Greg,

That's an interesting point. What alternatives would you suggest for
virtual meetings?

KD
On Dec 18, 2012 8:56 AM, "Greg Troxel"  wrote:

>
>   Or if you'd like to join, and Google+ is a problem, please drop me a
> line.
>
> I object to the use of google anything.  That requires people to agree
> to their privacy policies in order to participate in OSM, and I think
> OSM should have a policy against such requirement or encouragement.
> (That said, I'm unlikely able to show up synchronously to things anyway.)
>
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>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Imports and Large Edit Committee Meeting 12/20

2012-12-18 Thread Greg Troxel

  Or if you'd like to join, and Google+ is a problem, please drop me a line.

I object to the use of google anything.  That requires people to agree
to their privacy policies in order to participate in OSM, and I think
OSM should have a policy against such requirement or encouragement.
(That said, I'm unlikely able to show up synchronously to things anyway.)


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[Talk-us] MassGIS Building Import - new member

2012-12-18 Thread JasonWoof
Hi all,

I'm new to this list, and wanted to say "hi" and chime in about the
MassGIS buliding import project.

BTW... sorry to add another "Jason" to the mix... Please call me
JasonWoof (my osm username) to avoid confusion.


I just found out about the MassGIS building import project when
whodidit told me about changes in the next town over from where I
live. (That would be the buildings in Westhampton magically
appearing.)


I loved having the building outlines everywhere when I lived in
Cambridge, MA, then missed them when I moved to Northampton, MA.
While listening to audio-books, I traced every building within the
Northampton city limits (about 12,000).

Also, I've been programming quite a bit since about 1994, but
haven't put those skills to use on OSM yet, so this seems like a
great opportunity for me to get more involved. This seems like it
would be much, much easier than importing things that have
routing/connectivity concerns.

Hopefully when it comes time to import addresses I'll be more
experienced and able to help with that too.


I've spoken with Jason Remillard about helping out, read the
threads on the archives for this list that looked relevant, and
read some procedure/policy stuff on the wiki about how to go about
imports. I'll try to read everything I can find on the wiki bout
how to do imports properly before I start fiddling with data.

I understand that imports can go wrong in many ways, and I'll be
very cautious and ask for more experienced folks to check my work
early and often.


Oh, and here's something that resonated with me from the archive:

Greg Troxel wrote:
> The community in Mass is actually growing, and I haven't heard
> from anyone local who is opposed to what's happening.  This
> process is causing us to know each other better.

Yes! I've mostly mapped on my own, and I'm excited about working
with vaguely local folks on this project.


  - JasonWoof

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[Talk-us] Whole-US Garmin Map update - 2012-12-17

2012-12-18 Thread Dave Hansen
These are based off of Lambertus's work here:

http://garmin.openstreetmap.nl

If you have questions or comments about these maps, please feel
free to ask.  However, please do not send me private mail.  The
odds are, someone else will have the same questions, and by
asking on the talk-us@ list, others can benefit.

Downloads:

http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2012-12-17

Map to visualize what each file contains:


http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2012-12-17/kml/kml.html


FAQ



Why did you do this?

I wrote scripts to joined them myself to lessen the impact
of doing a large join on Lambertus's server.  I've also
cut them in large longitude swaths that should fit conveniently
on removable media.  

http://daveh.dev.openstreetmap.org/garmin/Lambertus/2012-12-17

Can or should I seed the torrents?

Yes!!  If you use the .torrent files, please seed.  That web
server is in the UK, and it helps to have some peers on this
side of the Atlantic.

Why is my map missing small rectangular areas?

There have been some missing tiles from Lambertus's map (the
red rectangles),  I don't see any at the moment, so you may
want to update if you had issues with the last set.

Why can I not copy the large files to my new SD card?

If you buy a new card (especially SDHC), some are FAT16 from
the factory.  I had to reformat it to let me create a >2GB
file.

Does your map cover Mexico/Canada?

Yes!!  I have, for the purposes of this map, annexed Ontario
in to the USA.  Some areas of North America that are close
to the US also just happen to get pulled in to these maps.
This might not happen forever, and if you would like your
non-US area to get included, let me know. 

-- Dave


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