Re: [Talk-us] Yet more about USA Rail: now, wiki

[Martijn van Exel]

I pinned it for Nov 17-18 weekend. Add your city and plan a mapping party!
Martijn

> On Sep 18, 2018, at 1:27 PM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:
> 
> Okay there we are! 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapathon/US_Fall_Mapathon_2018 
>  
> 
> Sometime in November? Earlier?
> 
>> On Sep 18, 2018, at 1:03 PM, OSM Volunteer stevea > > wrote:
>> 
>> No hijack seen as actual or intended:  great idea, Martijn!
>> 
>> Trains, transit,  our map:  these really do keep getting better and better.
>> 
>> SteveA
>> 
>>> On Sep 18, 2018, at 12:01 PM, Martijn van Exel >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> To branch out a little bit — sorry to hijack the thread Steve — it would be 
>>> nice to do a nationwide transit mapathon around transit. We used to run 
>>> nationwide coordinated mapathons and I miss them. I think they are fun to 
>>> connect communities. Who’s in and who wants to help coordinate?
>>> 
>>> Martijn
>> 
> 
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Re: [Talk-us] Yet more about USA Rail: now, wiki

[Martijn van Exel]

Okay there we are! 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mapathon/US_Fall_Mapathon_2018 
 

Sometime in November? Earlier?

> On Sep 18, 2018, at 1:03 PM, OSM Volunteer stevea  > wrote:
> 
> No hijack seen as actual or intended:  great idea, Martijn!
> 
> Trains, transit,  our map:  these really do keep getting better and better.
> 
> SteveA
> 
>> On Sep 18, 2018, at 12:01 PM, Martijn van Exel > > wrote:
>> 
>> To branch out a little bit — sorry to hijack the thread Steve — it would be 
>> nice to do a nationwide transit mapathon around transit. We used to run 
>> nationwide coordinated mapathons and I miss them. I think they are fun to 
>> connect communities. Who’s in and who wants to help coordinate?
>> 
>> Martijn
> 

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Re: [Talk-us] Yet more about USA Rail: now, wiki

[OSM Volunteer stevea]

No hijack seen as actual or intended:  great idea, Martijn!

Trains, transit,  our map:  these really do keep getting better and better.

SteveA

> On Sep 18, 2018, at 12:01 PM, Martijn van Exel  wrote:
> 
> To branch out a little bit — sorry to hijack the thread Steve — it would be 
> nice to do a nationwide transit mapathon around transit. We used to run 
> nationwide coordinated mapathons and I miss them. I think they are fun to 
> connect communities. Who’s in and who wants to help coordinate?
> 
> Martijn

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Re: [Talk-us] Yet more about USA Rail: now, wiki

[Martijn van Exel]

To branch out a little bit — sorry to hijack the thread Steve — it would be 
nice to do a nationwide transit mapathon around transit. We used to run 
nationwide coordinated mapathons and I miss them. I think they are fun to 
connect communities. Who’s in and who wants to help coordinate?

Martijn

> On Sep 18, 2018, at 11:23 AM, OSM Volunteer stevea 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yes, I've been beating the drums rather loudly about USA Rail recently, yet 
> there is so much that OSM can (and should, imo) do about this.  OSM's actual 
> rail data (imported from TIGER a decade ago) do slowly improve, and for that 
> I am grateful, even as a lot of the work is both mine and many others.
> 
> However, our wiki regarding rail is, um, "messy" for reasons that are largely 
> historical.  In short, there is a distinct trend towards "statewide" rail 
> pages that rather comprehensively describe both freight/industrial rail (in 
> terms of major Class I and smaller railroads), then as things cleave from 
> freight to passenger, link to our Amtrak page (which remains quite 
> respectable) where applicable, AND describe the rapidly growing passenger 
> rail networks/systems in cities large, medium and small in the USA.  
> (Suburban/commuter trains, light rail systems, trams, monorails around 
> airports, tourism/heritage/historic/museum rail, etc.)
> 
> Unfortunately, there are also many rail wiki (most written by the 
> banned-from-OSM-years-ago infamous NE2) which, while seemingly 
> well-intentioned, are mere "dead end" histories of defunct rail from a 
> century ago, rather than the becoming-more-vibrant-daily rail network that I 
> (and others) want to see both properly mapped in OSM and documented in our 
> wiki in a sane, comprehensive way.
> 
> For example, (precede all of these with https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/) 
> here are some of these "defunct" pages I'd like to see "re-purposed" and 
> eventually go away:
> 
> Southern_Pacific_Transportation_Company
> Missouri_Pacific_Railroad
> Atchison,_Topeka_and_Santa_Fe_Railway
> Southern_Railway_(U.S.)
> Illinois_Central_Railroad_(pre-1972)
> 
> and I'm sure that isn't a complete list.  These railroads haven't existed for 
> decades and while I have great respect for how disused and abandoned 
> railroads both are and should be "in" OSM (and "properly" documented in our 
> wiki), this really isn't "today's" way to do it.  There are "cross-links" 
> with Wikipedia which likely make sense here, I'd like to focus OSM's wikis on 
> useful structure/organization of an entire states rail networks and providing 
> links to the actual underlying relation data that make our data so useful. 
> Wikipedia isn't going to do that, but it can (and should) capture 
> centuries-old history where we shouldn't.
> 
> Of course, there are wiki pages about USA Rail which must remain, including 
> the worldwide https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Metro_systems 
> which has a USA section that is "fair to good" and more than one absolutely 
> charming wiki like 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_World_Monorail_System which I 
> find delightful and shouldn't change a byte (unless they need updates).
> 
> In short, I'm asking this talk-us list if "rail wiki cleanup in the USA" is 
> on the right track (so, chime in with your consensus additions, please).  Is 
> the "trend" towards statewide rail wikis correct?  (It seems so to me).  Can 
> the NE2-authored "old stuff" (many of these wiki haven't been touched in 7+ 
> years) be repurposed and then deleted?
> 
> Please contact me on-list or off if you want to see rail data and rail wiki 
> continue to improve in OSM and we can talk about how — there is a great deal 
> to do!
> 
> SteveA
> California
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[Talk-us] Yet more about USA Rail: now, wiki

[OSM Volunteer stevea]

Yes, I've been beating the drums rather loudly about USA Rail recently, yet 
there is so much that OSM can (and should, imo) do about this.  OSM's actual 
rail data (imported from TIGER a decade ago) do slowly improve, and for that I 
am grateful, even as a lot of the work is both mine and many others.

However, our wiki regarding rail is, um, "messy" for reasons that are largely 
historical.  In short, there is a distinct trend towards "statewide" rail pages 
that rather comprehensively describe both freight/industrial rail (in terms of 
major Class I and smaller railroads), then as things cleave from freight to 
passenger, link to our Amtrak page (which remains quite respectable) where 
applicable, AND describe the rapidly growing passenger rail networks/systems in 
cities large, medium and small in the USA.  (Suburban/commuter trains, light 
rail systems, trams, monorails around airports, 
tourism/heritage/historic/museum rail, etc.)

Unfortunately, there are also many rail wiki (most written by the 
banned-from-OSM-years-ago infamous NE2) which, while seemingly 
well-intentioned, are mere "dead end" histories of defunct rail from a century 
ago, rather than the becoming-more-vibrant-daily rail network that I (and 
others) want to see both properly mapped in OSM and documented in our wiki in a 
sane, comprehensive way.

For example, (precede all of these with https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/) 
here are some of these "defunct" pages I'd like to see "re-purposed" and 
eventually go away:

Southern_Pacific_Transportation_Company
Missouri_Pacific_Railroad
Atchison,_Topeka_and_Santa_Fe_Railway
Southern_Railway_(U.S.)
Illinois_Central_Railroad_(pre-1972)

and I'm sure that isn't a complete list.  These railroads haven't existed for 
decades and while I have great respect for how disused and abandoned railroads 
both are and should be "in" OSM (and "properly" documented in our wiki), this 
really isn't "today's" way to do it.  There are "cross-links" with Wikipedia 
which likely make sense here, I'd like to focus OSM's wikis on useful 
structure/organization of an entire states rail networks and providing links to 
the actual underlying relation data that make our data so useful. Wikipedia 
isn't going to do that, but it can (and should) capture centuries-old history 
where we shouldn't.

Of course, there are wiki pages about USA Rail which must remain, including the 
worldwide https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Metro_systems which 
has a USA section that is "fair to good" and more than one absolutely charming 
wiki like https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Walt_Disney_World_Monorail_System 
which I find delightful and shouldn't change a byte (unless they need updates).

In short, I'm asking this talk-us list if "rail wiki cleanup in the USA" is on 
the right track (so, chime in with your consensus additions, please).  Is the 
"trend" towards statewide rail wikis correct?  (It seems so to me).  Can the 
NE2-authored "old stuff" (many of these wiki haven't been touched in 7+ years) 
be repurposed and then deleted?

Please contact me on-list or off if you want to see rail data and rail wiki 
continue to improve in OSM and we can talk about how — there is a great deal to 
do!

SteveA
California
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