Re: [Talk-us] Jefferson Notch Road and latest "GPS made me do it" in the news
On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 2:21 PM Kevin Broderick wrote: > However, that assumes that you can trust the news to be accurate, > Always a questionable assumption -- whenever you know the facts behind a story, you see what they get wrong. > and the distinction between "closed in winter" and "not maintained for > winter travel" is not one I expect the news media to get right. The article > I saw quoted the driver has having seen a "Not maintained for winter > travel" sign and continuing because he didn't think that implied a closure > (which is true, even if it may be a poor choice in a minivan). > At this point i wouldn't trust the driver's statements even without a reporter re-writing them. I would want to see, or see a photo of, the sign before I personally touched that road and it's gate nodes. (Is there a NH list where that discussion should move? My question here is what tags are appropriate for the several possibilities.) Given that it is a snowmachine trail, "closed" seems more likely > That the news reports the driver was cited (given a ticket/summons) for something like driving a car on road closed to cars does indicate that the cops consider it closed, whatever the sign actually says. > (and it would be exceedingly impolite to put wheel ruts into a groomed > trail, even if legal), > Yes indeed. (Emergency services excepted.) > but it's been long enough since I traveled it that I can't recall the > signage. > I don't recall if we ever used that scenic shortcut - we certainly did various 2/302/Kancamagus loops, mid last century, through all the other, major notches, both summer and leaf-peeper. Now I want to drive this notch sometime before peak-leaf-peeper :-D. (I am painfully aware how rusty my snowmobile skills are and would not attempt it in winter unless in a group tour with a paid professional guide and roustabouts to get me unstuck ! :-D Knowing your own limits is key in the back-country.) > My fuzzy recollection is a gate on the Base Station end. > There was already an old Note requesting clarification of the status/signage of the Gate there in OSM, so you are likely correct that it is (or was!) there. I can't find a definitive answer on the NH DOT site, and the WMNF MVUM > shows it to be a non-forest road through the forest. > Thanks for searching ! // Bill, exiled in Boston, Flatland, USA ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Jefferson Notch Road and latest "GPS made me do it" in the news
Since OSM is used around the world, shouldn't intellectual property laws in other countries be considered? Nathan Grasso https://osm.org/user/Hexocyte On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 2:12 PM Mark Wagner wrote: > In the United States, facts can't be copyrighted, only specific ways of > expressing them. If a news article says "the road is closed in the > winter from Wherezit Junction to Anytown", you can freely extract the > fact of the closure, look for the OSM ways corresponding to the > description, and apply a "closed in the winter" tag. > > (If the news article instead has a map of the closure, the copyright > situation becomes more questionable, because now you're copying not > just the facts of the closure, but possibly the way they're expressed > as well.) > ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Jefferson Notch Road and latest "GPS made me do it" in the news
However, that assumes that you can trust the news to be accurate, and the distinction between "closed in winter" and "not maintained for winter travel" is not one I expect the news media to get right. The article I saw quoted the driver has having seen a "Not maintained for winter travel" sign and continuing because he didn't think that implied a closure (which is true, even if it may be a poor choice in a minivan). Given that it is a snowmachine trail, "closed" seems more likely (and it would be exceedingly impolite to put wheel ruts into a groomed trail, even if legal), but it's been long enough since I traveled it that I can't recall the signage. My fuzzy recollection is a gate on the Base Station end. I can't find a definitive answer on the NH DOT site, and the WMNF MVUM shows it to be a non-forest road through the forest. On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 2:11 PM Mark Wagner wrote: > On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 14:47:35 -0500 > Bill Ricker wrote: > > > Kevin asks, > > > is Jefferson Notch Road actually closed to wheeled vehicles in > > > winter or > > just not maintained? > > > > Per copyright news reports, it is signed as closed to wheeled > > vehicles, open to snow-machines only, in winter. > > (As should be obvious, to correctly tag this according to our > > license, we do need some on-the ground or license0compatible > > verification of the facts form the news, as well as a decision on > > what tags to use.) > > In the United States, facts can't be copyrighted, only specific ways of > expressing them. If a news article says "the road is closed in the > winter from Wherezit Junction to Anytown", you can freely extract the > fact of the closure, look for the OSM ways corresponding to the > description, and apply a "closed in the winter" tag. > > (If the news article instead has a map of the closure, the copyright > situation becomes more questionable, because now you're copying not > just the facts of the closure, but possibly the way they're expressed > as well.) > > -- > Mark > > ___ > Talk-us mailing list > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us > -- Kevin Broderick k...@kevinbroderick.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Jefferson Notch Road and latest "GPS made me do it" in the news
On Thu, 2 Jan 2020 14:47:35 -0500 Bill Ricker wrote: > Kevin asks, > > is Jefferson Notch Road actually closed to wheeled vehicles in > > winter or > just not maintained? > > Per copyright news reports, it is signed as closed to wheeled > vehicles, open to snow-machines only, in winter. > (As should be obvious, to correctly tag this according to our > license, we do need some on-the ground or license0compatible > verification of the facts form the news, as well as a decision on > what tags to use.) In the United States, facts can't be copyrighted, only specific ways of expressing them. If a news article says "the road is closed in the winter from Wherezit Junction to Anytown", you can freely extract the fact of the closure, look for the OSM ways corresponding to the description, and apply a "closed in the winter" tag. (If the news article instead has a map of the closure, the copyright situation becomes more questionable, because now you're copying not just the facts of the closure, but possibly the way they're expressed as well.) -- Mark ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
