Vào lúc 03:01 2020-12-04, Frederik Ramm đã viết:
Hi,
when reverting an edit this morning I noticed that the node for
Washington (https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/158368533) has myriad
name:xx tags, many of which seem to be some variant of "Washington D.C."
(with or without commas or dots), whereas the "local" name seems to be
just Washington, without the D.C.
As a native speaker of German I can assure you that we don't call the US
capital "Washington D.C." as the name:de tag claims; I would assume that
it is similar for most other languages. The German-language OSM map at
https://www.openstreetmap.de/karte.html?zoom=10&lat=38.70174&lon=-76.93764
has a mechanism where it displays the German name and then, if the local
name is different, the local name below; since the German name
"Washington D.C." and the local name "Washington" are different, this
leads to a somewhat funny display (whereas the logic works ok for other
US cities).
I could of course fix the German name but I think that it might need a
more thorough review and I don't feel competent for that.
Two name tags (and this is checking only those that use Roman letters)
look like they might be entirely wrong and refer to the District of
Columbia only:
name:lfn=Distrito de Columbia
name:mi=Takiwā o Columbia
Most of these localized names were added in changeset 76520412 [1] based
on labels on the associated Wikidata item. [2] So this time it was not a
case of promoting a particular minority language. In fact, I don't think
much attention was paid to the names being added, or perhaps the Tajik
name would've remained to the effect of "Washington District of
Columbia" instead of being changed to "Washington (city)".
This same changeset changed the name of the District of Columbia
relation to "Washington, D.C." in many languages, including English. [3]
This results in Nominatim returning results like "Washington, D.C.,
Washington, D.C." I think it was inappropriate to rename the district
this way. I think it was another oversight on the part of the
changeset's author, because Wikidata has a distinct entity for the
district. [4]
[1] https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/76520412
[2] https://www.wikidata.org/entity/Q61
[3] https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/162069
[4] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3551781
Then again, I've heard people say "I was in D.C." and mean the city, so
perhaps that *is* a legitimate name for the city? Maybe someone in the
US community wants to have a look and do this right.
It is a bit of a conundrum in OSM - we usually say that local knowledge
tops everything, but then again for many of the languages there might
not even *be* a local Washington mapper in OSM ;)
As others have pointed out, a local would refer to the city as "D.C."
even while acknowledging that the city's formal written name is
"Washington" or "Washington, D.C." I think common sense would require us
to relegate "D.C." to loc_name or short_name, just as a general-purpose,
global map would only shorten San Francisco to the local shorthand
"S.F." and Salt Lake City to "SLC" when space is at a premium.
Thanks in part to the D.C.-based Voice of America, I'm sure you could
find a local to get the translated name of Washington, D.C., for many
languages, but I'm not confident they would choose the same names as
Wikidata.
For example, both VOA and the local Vietnamese media still generally
call the city "Hoa Thịnh Đốn", a relic of the early 20th century when
Vietnamese still borrowed Chinese characters for world-class cities.
"Hoa Thịnh Đốn" is easy for a Vietnamese speaker to pronounce, but it
only kind of sounds like "Washington" in the way that an eggcorn sounds
like its original phrase. It's archaic and probably unknown to the
younger generation in Vietnam. The Vietnamese government prefers the
phonetic respelling "Oa-sinh-tơn", which conversely is unknown to older
Vietnamese Americans.
When I originally tagged the D.C. node with Vietnamese names in
changeset 5439052, I intended for the fallback to be "Washington", as a
compromise between the traditional and more modern names. But I
hesitated to explicitly tag name:vi=Washington because it's incompatible
with the Vietnamese alphabet. I guess I should've added it as a bulwark
against armchair linguistics. Changeset 76520412 set name:vi to
"Washington, D.C.", which to a Vietnamese speaker is rather like
labeling New Orleans as "New Orleans, LA" on a map.
Long story short, I find changeset 76520412 to be problematic in the
languages I know, let alone the many languages I don't. Thanks for
bringing it to our attention.
--
m...@nguyen.cincinnati.oh.us
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