Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Google earth, Google maps

[80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us]

OK !

  
>Saturday, June 13, 2020 3:56 PM -05:00 from Mike Thompson 
>:
> 
>   
>On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 11:20 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us < 
>talk-us@openstreetmap.org > wrote:
>>
>> I am not copying any thing, just looking at a satellite view from google .
>>  
>> it was a ruler.
>This isn't really about OSM, it is about the Google Maps Terms of Service, 
>which by using Google Maps, you agree to abide by.  This states in part: "you 
>may not ...use Google Maps/Google Earth to create or augment any other 
>mapping-related dataset..." This would include the ruler I would think as well 
>as "looking at a satellite view."
>  
 
 
 
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Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Google earth, Google maps

[Mike Thompson]

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 11:20 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
talk-us@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
> I am not copying any thing, just looking at a satellite view from google
.
>
> it was a ruler.
This isn't really about OSM, it is about the Google Maps Terms of Service,
which by using Google Maps, you agree to abide by.  This states in part:
"you may not ...use Google Maps/Google Earth to create or augment any other
mapping-related dataset..." This would include the ruler I would think as
well as "looking at a satellite view."
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Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Google earth, Google maps

[80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us]

I am not copying any thing, just looking at a satellite view from google . 
 
it was a ruler. 
>Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:40 AM -05:00 from Lester Caine :
> 
>On 13/06/2020 15:08, 80hnhtv4agou--- via talk wrote:
>> why are you telling me I can not use google as a map source
>
>First reason is that Google don't allow copying of their material to
>other services.
>
>But the main reason is that all of the content in OSM is required to be
>free of any copyright restrictions so anything you copy from ANY other
>source, you have to ensure that source is 'old news' i.e. is out of
>copyright. Where possible what appears should be personal observation of
>local locations and not looked up on streetview for example.
>
>--
>Lester Caine - G8HFL
>-
>Contact -  https://lsces.uk/wiki/Contact
>L.S.Caine Electronic Services -  https://lsces.uk
>Model Engineers Digital Workshop -  https://medw.uk
>Rainbow Digital Media -  https://rainbowdigitalmedia.uk 
 
 
 
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Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Google earth, Google maps

[Joseph Eisenberg]

You should check the measurement directly from aerial imagery in iD or
JOSM, or by visiting the location in person and measuring or estimating.

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:24 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
talk-us@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> since the complainer removed the source (google map) do i remove the # as
> well ?
>
>
>
> Saturday, June 13, 2020 11:09 AM -05:00 from Mike Thompson <
> miketh...@gmail.com>:
>
>
>
> According to the Google Maps Terms of service, you cannot use it in any
> way to make another map. [0]  I would think that would include using its
> ruler if the purpose of using the ruler is to edit OSM.
>
> [0] 2.d of https://www.google.com/help/terms_maps/
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:47 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
> talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> > wrote:
>
> because i was asked to change my edit based on my own ruler measurement,
>
> but it was just a ruler on google maps.
>
>
> Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:42 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us
>  >:
>
> If you were not copying Google Maps then why you were using the ruler?
>
> Why using ruler on Google Maps would be even necessary?
>
> Jun 13, 2020, 17:31 by t...@openstreetmap.org
> :
>
> i put them as a source i used a ruler on there map.
>
>
>
> Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:20 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via talk <
> t...@openstreetmap.org >:
>
>
>
>
> Jun 13, 2020, 16:59 by eric.lad...@gmail.com
> :
>
> Yeah, be careful with Google Maps.  It's owned and created by a company
> and if you copy from it and they can prove it, they could sue the OSM
> Foundation into oblivion.  They used to even have their OWN satellites to
> obtain imagery.  That's serious money.
>
> That is not the main problem. Main problem is that it goes our own
> fundamental rules.
> Mappers must not use other maps* even if whoever hold copyright is unable
> to sue for some reason.
>
> And "they can prove it" part may be misleading - you are not allowed to
> copy even if you think that
> you can hide the copying so that noone will notice it.
>
> *that is more complicated, we are must not copyrighted data on
> incompatible licenes -
> but if you are unsure what it means do not use other maps and ask for help
> before doing this
>
>
> Typically, with local edits, I put "Local knowledge" as the source.
> Sounds more highbrow than "my eyeballs".
>
> I usually put survey/memory depending on how recent my data is.
>
> IMO, if somebody is challenging one of your local edits, if they are not
> local also, they should be told as much and sent on their way - UNLESS it's
> something that relates to a mapping standard or best practice.  Then, learn
> from your mistakes and move on.
>
> +1
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:32 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
> talk-us@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
> this was a tool on the map that measured distance.
>
> Have you copied that map? I am unsure how the distance measuring tool
> relates to "why are you telling me I can not use google as a map source"?
>
>
>
> Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:29 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us <
> talk-us@openstreetmap.org>:
>
> You are not allowed to use Google Maps as source.
>
> Have you used Google Maps to edit OSM?
>
> "since all the maps on OSM are old news like in my local area 7 months
> old."
>
> FYI, world is larger than your local area.
>
>
> Jun 13, 2020, 16:08 by talk-us@openstreetmap.org:
>
> If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a person
> from the data group as an editor,
>
> asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to me,
> why are you telling me I can not use
>
> google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like in my
> local area 7 months old.
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Google earth, Google maps

[80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us]

since the complainer removed the source (google map) do i remove the # as well ?

  
>Saturday, June 13, 2020 11:09 AM -05:00 from Mike Thompson 
>:
> 
>According to the Google Maps Terms of service, you cannot use it in any way to 
>make another map. [0]  I would think that would include using its ruler if the 
>purpose of using the ruler is to edit OSM.
> 
>[0] 2.d of  https://www.google.com/help/terms_maps/  
>On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:47 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us < 
>talk-us@openstreetmap.org > wrote:
>>because i was asked to change my edit based on my own ruler measurement,
>> 
>>but it was just a ruler on google maps.
>>  
>>>Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:42 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us < 
>>>talk-us@openstreetmap.org >:
>>> 
>>>If you were not copying Google Maps then why you were using the ruler?
>>> 
>>>Why using ruler on Google Maps would be even necessary?
>>> 
>>>Jun 13, 2020, 17:31 by  t...@openstreetmap.org :
i put them as a source i used a ruler on there map.
 
 
>Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:20 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via talk < 
>t...@openstreetmap.org >:
> 
> 
> 
> 
>Jun 13, 2020, 16:59 by  eric.lad...@gmail.com :
>>Yeah, be careful with Google Maps.  It's owned and created by a company 
>>and if you copy from it and they can prove it, they could sue the OSM 
>>Foundation into oblivion.  They used to even have their OWN satellites to 
>>obtain imagery.  That's serious money.
>That is not the main problem. Main problem is that it goes our own 
>fundamental rules.
>Mappers must not use other maps* even if whoever hold copyright is unable 
>to sue for some reason.
> 
>And "they can prove it" part may be misleading - you are not allowed to 
>copy even if you think that
>you can hide the copying so that noone will notice it.
> 
>*that is more complicated, we are must not copyrighted data on 
>incompatible licenes -
>but if you are unsure what it means do not use other maps and ask for help 
>before doing this
>> 
>>Typically, with local edits, I put "Local knowledge" as the source.  
>>Sounds more highbrow than "my eyeballs". 
>I usually put survey/memory depending on how recent my data is.
>>IMO, if somebody is challenging one of your local edits, if they are not 
>>local also, they should be told as much and sent on their way - UNLESS 
>>it's something that relates to a mapping standard or best practice.  
>>Then, learn from your mistakes and move on.
>+1
>>On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:32 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us < 
>>talk-us@openstreetmap.org > wrote:
>>>this was a tool on the map that measured distance.
>Have you copied that map? I am unsure how the distance measuring tool
>relates to "why are you telling me I can not use google as a map source"?
>>> 
Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:29 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via 
Talk-us < talk-us@openstreetmap.org >:
 
You are not allowed to use Google Maps as source.
 
Have you used Google Maps to edit OSM?
 
"since all the maps on OSM are old news like in my local area 7 months 
old."
 
FYI, world is larger than your local area.
 
 
Jun 13, 2020, 16:08 by  talk-us@openstreetmap.org :
>If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a 
>person from the data group as an editor,
> 
>asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to 
>me, why are you telling me I can not use
> 
>google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like 
>in my local area 7 months old.
> 
> 
 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>>--
>>Eric Ladner
> 
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>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Google earth, Google maps

[Mike Thompson]

According to the Google Maps Terms of service, you cannot use it in any way
to make another map. [0]  I would think that would include using its ruler
if the purpose of using the ruler is to edit OSM.

[0] 2.d of https://www.google.com/help/terms_maps/

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:47 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
talk-us@openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> because i was asked to change my edit based on my own ruler measurement,
>
> but it was just a ruler on google maps.
>
>
> Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:42 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us
> :
>
> If you were not copying Google Maps then why you were using the ruler?
>
> Why using ruler on Google Maps would be even necessary?
>
> Jun 13, 2020, 17:31 by t...@openstreetmap.org:
>
> i put them as a source i used a ruler on there map.
>
>
>
> Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:20 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via talk <
> t...@openstreetmap.org >:
>
>
>
>
> Jun 13, 2020, 16:59 by eric.lad...@gmail.com:
>
> Yeah, be careful with Google Maps.  It's owned and created by a company
> and if you copy from it and they can prove it, they could sue the OSM
> Foundation into oblivion.  They used to even have their OWN satellites to
> obtain imagery.  That's serious money.
>
> That is not the main problem. Main problem is that it goes our own
> fundamental rules.
> Mappers must not use other maps* even if whoever hold copyright is unable
> to sue for some reason.
>
> And "they can prove it" part may be misleading - you are not allowed to
> copy even if you think that
> you can hide the copying so that noone will notice it.
>
> *that is more complicated, we are must not copyrighted data on
> incompatible licenes -
> but if you are unsure what it means do not use other maps and ask for help
> before doing this
>
>
> Typically, with local edits, I put "Local knowledge" as the source.
> Sounds more highbrow than "my eyeballs".
>
> I usually put survey/memory depending on how recent my data is.
>
> IMO, if somebody is challenging one of your local edits, if they are not
> local also, they should be told as much and sent on their way - UNLESS it's
> something that relates to a mapping standard or best practice.  Then, learn
> from your mistakes and move on.
>
> +1
>
> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:32 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <
> talk-us@openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>
> this was a tool on the map that measured distance.
>
> Have you copied that map? I am unsure how the distance measuring tool
> relates to "why are you telling me I can not use google as a map source"?
>
>
>
> Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:29 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us <
> talk-us@openstreetmap.org>:
>
> You are not allowed to use Google Maps as source.
>
> Have you used Google Maps to edit OSM?
>
> "since all the maps on OSM are old news like in my local area 7 months
> old."
>
> FYI, world is larger than your local area.
>
>
> Jun 13, 2020, 16:08 by talk-us@openstreetmap.org:
>
> If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a person
> from the data group as an editor,
>
> asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to me,
> why are you telling me I can not use
>
> google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like in my
> local area 7 months old.
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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>
>
>
> --
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>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Google earth, Google maps

[80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us]

because i was asked to change my edit based on my own ruler measurement,
 
but it was just a ruler on google maps.
  
>Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:42 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us 
>:
> 
>If you were not copying Google Maps then why you were using the ruler?
> 
>Why using ruler on Google Maps would be even necessary?
> 
>Jun 13, 2020, 17:31 by t...@openstreetmap.org:
>>i put them as a source i used a ruler on there map.
>> 
>> 
>>>Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:20 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via talk < 
>>>t...@openstreetmap.org >:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>Jun 13, 2020, 16:59 by eric.lad...@gmail.com:
Yeah, be careful with Google Maps.  It's owned and created by a company and 
if you copy from it and they can prove it, they could sue the OSM 
Foundation into oblivion.  They used to even have their OWN satellites to 
obtain imagery.  That's serious money.
>>>That is not the main problem. Main problem is that it goes our own 
>>>fundamental rules.
>>>Mappers must not use other maps* even if whoever hold copyright is unable to 
>>>sue for some reason.
>>> 
>>>And "they can prove it" part may be misleading - you are not allowed to copy 
>>>even if you think that
>>>you can hide the copying so that noone will notice it.
>>> 
>>>*that is more complicated, we are must not copyrighted data on incompatible 
>>>licenes -
>>>but if you are unsure what it means do not use other maps and ask for help 
>>>before doing this
 
Typically, with local edits, I put "Local knowledge" as the source.  Sounds 
more highbrow than "my eyeballs". 
>>>I usually put survey/memory depending on how recent my data is.
IMO, if somebody is challenging one of your local edits, if they are not 
local also, they should be told as much and sent on their way - UNLESS it's 
something that relates to a mapping standard or best practice.  Then, learn 
from your mistakes and move on.
>>>+1
On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:32 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us < 
talk-us@openstreetmap.org > wrote:
>this was a tool on the map that measured distance.
>>>Have you copied that map? I am unsure how the distance measuring tool
>>>relates to "why are you telling me I can not use google as a map source"?
> 
>>Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:29 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us 
>>< talk-us@openstreetmap.org >:
>> 
>>You are not allowed to use Google Maps as source.
>> 
>>Have you used Google Maps to edit OSM?
>> 
>>"since all the maps on OSM are old news like in my local area 7 months 
>>old."
>> 
>>FYI, world is larger than your local area.
>> 
>> 
>>Jun 13, 2020, 16:08 by  talk-us@openstreetmap.org :
>>>If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a person 
>>>from the data group as an editor,
>>> 
>>>asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to me, 
>>>why are you telling me I can not use
>>> 
>>>google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like in 
>>>my local area 7 months old.
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> 
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--
Eric Ladner
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Google earth, Google maps

[Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us]

If you were not copying Google Maps then why you were using the ruler?

Why using ruler on Google Maps would be even necessary?

Jun 13, 2020, 17:31 by t...@openstreetmap.org:

> i put them as a source i used a ruler on there map.
>
>  
>
>> Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:20 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via talk 
>> :
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> Jun 13, 2020, 16:59 by eric.lad...@gmail.com:
>>
>>> Yeah, be careful with Google Maps.  It's owned and created by a company and 
>>> if you copy from it and they can prove it, they could sue the OSM 
>>> Foundation into oblivion.  They used to even have their OWN satellites to 
>>> obtain imagery.  That's serious money.
>>>
>> That is not the main problem. Main problem is that it goes our own 
>> fundamental rules.
>> Mappers must not use other maps* even if whoever hold copyright is unable to 
>> sue for some reason.
>>  
>> And "they can prove it" part may be misleading - you are not allowed to copy 
>> even if you think that
>> you can hide the copying so that noone will notice it.
>>  
>> *that is more complicated, we are must not copyrighted data on incompatible 
>> licenes -
>> but if you are unsure what it means do not use other maps and ask for help 
>> before doing this
>>
>>>  
>>> Typically, with local edits, I put "Local knowledge" as the source.  Sounds 
>>> more highbrow than "my eyeballs". 
>>>
>> I usually put survey/memory depending on how recent my data is.
>>
>>> IMO, if somebody is challenging one of your local edits, if they are not 
>>> local also, they should be told as much and sent on their way - UNLESS it's 
>>> something that relates to a mapping standard or best practice.  Then, learn 
>>> from your mistakes and move on.
>>>
>> +1
>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:32 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us <>>> 
>>> talk-us@openstreetmap.org >>> > wrote:
>>>
 this was a tool on the map that measured distance.

>> Have you copied that map? I am unsure how the distance measuring tool
>> relates to "why are you telling me I can not use google as a map source"?
>>
  

> Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:29 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us 
> <> talk-us@openstreetmap.org > >:
>  
> You are not allowed to use Google Maps as source.
>  
> Have you used Google Maps to edit OSM?
>  
> "since all the maps on OSM are old news like in my local area 7 months 
> old."
>  
> FYI, world is larger than your local area.
>  
>  
> Jun 13, 2020, 16:08 by > talk-us@openstreetmap.org 
> > :
>
>> If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a person 
>> from the data group as an editor,
>>  
>> asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to me, 
>> why are you telling me I can not use
>>  
>> google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like in 
>> my local area 7 months old.
>>  
>>  
>>
>  
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 ___
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>>>  
>>>  
>>> --
>>> Eric Ladner
>>>
>>  
>> ___
>> talk mailing list
>> t...@openstreetmap.org 
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
>>
>  
>  
>  
>  
>

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Re: [Talk-us] [OSM-talk] Google earth, Google maps

[80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us]

i put them as a source i used a ruler on there map.

  
>Saturday, June 13, 2020 10:20 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via talk 
>:
> 
> 
> 
> 
>Jun 13, 2020, 16:59 by eric.lad...@gmail.com:
>>Yeah, be careful with Google Maps.  It's owned and created by a company and 
>>if you copy from it and they can prove it, they could sue the OSM Foundation 
>>into oblivion.  They used to even have their OWN satellites to obtain 
>>imagery.  That's serious money.
>That is not the main problem. Main problem is that it goes our own fundamental 
>rules.
>Mappers must not use other maps* even if whoever hold copyright is unable to 
>sue for some reason.
> 
>And "they can prove it" part may be misleading - you are not allowed to copy 
>even if you think that
>you can hide the copying so that noone will notice it.
> 
>*that is more complicated, we are must not copyrighted data on incompatible 
>licenes -
>but if you are unsure what it means do not use other maps and ask for help 
>before doing this
>> 
>>Typically, with local edits, I put "Local knowledge" as the source.  Sounds 
>>more highbrow than "my eyeballs". 
>I usually put survey/memory depending on how recent my data is.
>>IMO, if somebody is challenging one of your local edits, if they are not 
>>local also, they should be told as much and sent on their way - UNLESS it's 
>>something that relates to a mapping standard or best practice.  Then, learn 
>>from your mistakes and move on.
>+1
>>On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 9:32 AM 80hnhtv4agou--- via Talk-us < 
>>talk-us@openstreetmap.org > wrote:
>>>this was a tool on the map that measured distance.
>Have you copied that map? I am unsure how the distance measuring tool
>relates to "why are you telling me I can not use google as a map source"?
>>> 
Saturday, June 13, 2020 9:29 AM -05:00 from Mateusz Konieczny via Talk-us < 
talk-us@openstreetmap.org >:
 
You are not allowed to use Google Maps as source.
 
Have you used Google Maps to edit OSM?
 
"since all the maps on OSM are old news like in my local area 7 months old."
 
FYI, world is larger than your local area.
 
 
Jun 13, 2020, 16:08 by  talk-us@openstreetmap.org :
>If you people want me to prove my edit by adding a source, and a person 
>from the data group as an editor,
> 
>asks me to prove it, and i redo my edit and he does not get back to me, 
>why are you telling me I can not use
> 
>google as a map source, since all the maps on OSM are old news. like in my 
>local area 7 months old.
> 
> 
 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>>--
>>Eric Ladner
> 
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