Re: [Talk-us] Boston speed limit too Re: Michigan speed limit changes coming soon
On 01/07/2017 06:49 PM, Bill Ricker wrote: On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Greg Troxel wrote: Also, we do have the implicit 30 mph tagged on many roads. While there are usually not signs, it is entirely verifable. One only has to read the law and measure the distance between houses (or observe that the area is built up with businesses). These two tasks are entirely within the ability of a typical mapper. the question then is, can we tell (without driving in circles) is if an existing 30 mph tag in Boston was implicit or explicit ... to find which might need fixing Isn't this what the source:maxspeed and maxspeed:type keys are supposed to solve? So the answer is that yes, you can tell, if the original mapper added enough detail when they mapped it. No idea if mappers in Boston have added that detail for you, though... ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Boston speed limit too Re: Michigan speed limit changes coming soon
Bill Ricker writes: > the question then is, can we tell (without driving in circles) is if an > existing 30 mph tag in Boston was implicit or explicit ... to find which > might need fixing No, you probably can't. Perhaps massdot will update and you can compare. But, I see almost zero speed limit signs refllecting the 30mph thickly-settled limit. I see very few for the unposted 40 (notb thickly settled, not divided), and pretty much every divided highway (50 if not posted) is posted one way or the other. But this also seems like distinction without a difference, and I don't think anybody is going to slow down... signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Boston speed limit too Re: Michigan speed limit changes coming soon
On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Greg Troxel wrote: > Also, we do have the implicit 30 mph tagged on many roads. While there > are usually not signs, it is entirely verifable. One only has to read > the law and measure the distance between houses (or observe that the > area is built up with businesses). These two tasks are entirely within > the ability of a typical mapper. > the question then is, can we tell (without driving in circles) is if an existing 30 mph tag in Boston was implicit or explicit ... to find which might need fixing -- Bill Ricker bill.n1...@gmail.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/n1vux ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Boston speed limit too Re: Michigan speed limit changes coming soon
Also, we do have the implicit 30 mph tagged on many roads. While there are usually not signs, it is entirely verifable. One only has to read the law and measure the distance between houses (or observe that the area is built up with businesses). These two tasks are entirely within the ability of a typical mapper. signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Boston speed limit too Re: Michigan speed limit changes coming soon
Tod - "Makes sense to have the OSM tagging model the real world in this regard. If we had that the a local mapper could update one value on the administrative boundary and all the roads without explicit maxspeed tagging would be covered." Agreed. There isn't a better community than OSM to maintain it. If our allied open routing project provides a side repository outside the main OSM but linked (the way e.g. our Notes are) I would happily update that. Without that being created, OSM admin boundary seems the right place. -- Bill Ricker bill.n1...@gmail.com @n1vux [ full reply included below so cc: talk-us-mass has full context ] On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 2:25 PM, Tod Fitch wrote: > > On Jan 7, 2017, at 10:57 AM, Bill Ricker wrote: > > > > On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 12:44 AM, Jack Burke wrote: > >> Hey, Michigan folks, keep an eye out for some speed limit changes > [1] > > > > We have a different change hitting Boston as of this last week -- the > > statutory limit on *UNSIGNED* roads/streets in Boston has changed. > > > > Statutory limit had been the state's 30mph (thickly settled or > > business district). > > > > One might presume since this changes only unsigned speed, we haven't > > entered it, so nothing to change. > > But how is a router to know ? > > > > [1] http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/01/75-mph_ > speed_limits_officially.html > > [2] http://www.mit.edu/~jfc/ma.html > > > > Too bad that every time someone proposes having default values based on > administrative boundaries it gets shot down like this one [1] was. > > Many, in fact, almost all residential streets in my state are not signed > with speed limits. I think that is true in most states, but the default > values definitely change with jurisdiction. If I tag them with the default > legal limit when there is no signing, I run the risk that they are not > updated if the law changes. And a person driving the street can’t verify > the value just by looking. If I don’t tag it, then the routing software > will make an assumption on what the speed is and the assumption is likely > based on the part of the world the people writing the software live and > very likely won’t match my area. > > To the people who then say that data should be kept outside of OSM as you > can’t see it on the ground: Point me to a place were a router can get a > world wide set of administrative based default speed limits. To be viable > for routers to use it would need to be an open geographical database. > Funny, that is what OSM is supposed to be. > > Makes sense to have the OSM tagging model the real world in this regard. > If we had that the a local mapper could update one value on the > administrative boundary and all the roads without explicit maxspeed tagging > would be covered. > > [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2016- > October/030330.html > > > ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Boston speed limit too Re: Michigan speed limit changes coming soon
> On Jan 7, 2017, at 10:57 AM, Bill Ricker wrote: > > On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 12:44 AM, Jack Burke wrote: >> Hey, Michigan folks, keep an eye out for some speed limit changes [1] > > We have a different change hitting Boston as of this last week -- the > statutory limit on *UNSIGNED* roads/streets in Boston has changed. > > Statutory limit had been the state's 30mph (thickly settled or > business district). > > One might presume since this changes only unsigned speed, we haven't > entered it, so nothing to change. > But how is a router to know ? > > [1] > http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/01/75-mph_speed_limits_officially.html > [2] http://www.mit.edu/~jfc/ma.html > Too bad that every time someone proposes having default values based on administrative boundaries it gets shot down like this one [1] was. Many, in fact, almost all residential streets in my state are not signed with speed limits. I think that is true in most states, but the default values definitely change with jurisdiction. If I tag them with the default legal limit when there is no signing, I run the risk that they are not updated if the law changes. And a person driving the street can’t verify the value just by looking. If I don’t tag it, then the routing software will make an assumption on what the speed is and the assumption is likely based on the part of the world the people writing the software live and very likely won’t match my area. To the people who then say that data should be kept outside of OSM as you can’t see it on the ground: Point me to a place were a router can get a world wide set of administrative based default speed limits. To be viable for routers to use it would need to be an open geographical database. Funny, that is what OSM is supposed to be. Makes sense to have the OSM tagging model the real world in this regard. If we had that the a local mapper could update one value on the administrative boundary and all the roads without explicit maxspeed tagging would be covered. [1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2016-October/030330.html ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Boston speed limit too Re: Michigan speed limit changes coming soon
On Sat, Jan 7, 2017 at 12:44 AM, Jack Burke wrote: > Hey, Michigan folks, keep an eye out for some speed limit changes [1] We have a different change hitting Boston as of this last week -- the statutory limit on *UNSIGNED* roads/streets in Boston has changed. Statutory limit had been the state's 30mph (thickly settled or business district). One might presume since this changes only unsigned speed, we haven't entered it, so nothing to change. But how is a router to know ? [1] http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/01/75-mph_speed_limits_officially.html [2] http://www.mit.edu/~jfc/ma.html -- Bill Ricker bill.n1...@gmail.com https://www.linkedin.com/in/n1vux ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us