Re: [Talk-us] NC sidewalk data import

[Nick Bolten]

I'd like to second this! Also, hi Melanie!

In case it adds useful context, I'd like to give my own recommendations:
(1) get practice in mapping sidewalks yourself and (2) create an IP,
metadata, work, verification, and upkeep plan for the import.

For (1), the goal is to become familiar with the complexities and pitfalls
of mapping the information you want, as it's not actually only sidewalks,
but also intersections, curb ramps, etc, and these are often inconsistent
block-to-block and not well-captured by public data. Many folks have
trouble seeing the need for certain styles of pedestrian mapping until you
give them the task of mapping a neighborhood's sidewalks, curb ramps,
crosswalks, etc, such that routing software could route a wheelchair user
(and everyone else) accurately. Example: in my neighborhood, a very busy
intersection has some curb ramps that are quite a bit 'upstream' of the
intersection, which means I had to map two separate paths: the
directly-across-the-street path for most pedestrians and the
use-the-curb-ramp path for others.

For (2), I'll split it into sections:

a) You'll want to get familiar with the import standards docs:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines. The first thing to
figure out is the IP situation, since that can prevent the import entirely.
Is your data public domain / otherwise compatible with OSM's license? If
not, you'll want to get the process of requesting a relicensing ASAP.

b) In my experience, it is often faster to draw from aerial imagery
(particularly the new Mapbox Satellite imagery) + Bing Streetside in JOSM
than it is to import sidewalks due to the number of adjustments that need
to be made. However, if you're bringing in valuable metadata with the
sidewalks and/or crosswalks, that would shift the balance. For example, if
you have high-quality surface data (concrete, asphalt, etc) or a
relationship with agencies such that you could add a dataset ID for
maintenance purposes, that would make all the difference. Is there any
'extra', useful data you could bring in as part of an import?

c) You'll want a work plan: how will the import happen? Using the OSM
Tasking Manager has worked pretty well for us in the past and I believe you
should be able to use the OSM US one (I can help if you don't have
privileges). The primary issue there is to identify your work units (a
single block? Intersections?), because you should ideally map sidewalks and
intersections simultaneously, as the intersections will connect your work
in progress to the rest of the network. If you have the resources, I've
really wanted to add some dependency functionality to the tasking manager
to manage an 'associated intersections first then sidewalks' mapping
strategy. Maybe we could collaborate.

d) Verification is an important step and you'll get it nearly for free if
you use the tasking manager, especially if you work with your local OSM
groups to have some expertise doing reviews. Just keep it in mind.

e) Having a plan for upkeep can save you a lot of time later on. It could
mean engaging with or organizing local OSM communities, having a plan for
structured OSM contributions in your implementation of AccessMap, or a
strategy for triggering suggested edits based on changes in the upstream
dataset.

Hope this helps!

Nick

On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 2:48 AM Rihards  wrote:

> On 27.01.19 21:41, Melanie Mazanec wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm a front end dev for a city government working on a side project to
> > fork and add to AccessMap  for North Carolina
> > cities.
> >
> > In order to make this happen, I want to import North Carolina city
> > sidewalk data into OSM.  I have no prior OSM experience, so I'm
> > following the suggested wiki protocol and reaching out here before
> > attempting an import.
> >
> > Does anyone have advice about tutorials or where to start?  Are there
> > any NC OSM communities or enthusiasts I can connect with?  Also, it
> > seems like there are two competing sidewalk data formats.  Is there a
> > preferred standard now?
>
> Hi, that's really great news - welcome to OSM.
> It would be useful if you would try some basic mapping first to get
> familiar with OSM data structure. Try to map something near your
> workplace or home.
> That doesn't stop you from working on the import, of course. Any
> questions on OSM are welcome on the IRC channel #osm (
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IRC ), or any other OSM
> communication channel.
>
> > Thanks,
> > Melanie Mazanec--
>  Rihards
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
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Re: [Talk-us] NC sidewalk data import

[jumbanho]

Thanks, that's a very good video.

On Mon, 2019-01-28 at 09:13 -0600, Joe Sapletal wrote:
> If you haven’t seen it already, this was a good presentation from
> SOTM a few months ago about Pedestrian Mapping.  Nick briefly
> discusses the plusses and minuses of adding sidewalk values to the
> existing road way vs creating a way that is the actual sidewalk/path
> that supports a pedestrian network.
>  
> https://2018.stateofthemap.us/program/inclusive-pedestrian-mapping-opensidewalks-accessmap-and-accessibility.html
>  
>  
> Joe Sapletal
>  
> From: jumba...@gmail.com
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 8:37 AM
> To: Joseph Eisenberg; Rihards
> Cc: talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] NC sidewalk data import
>  
> I can only speak for the Triangle area, but many sidewalks are mapped
> as separate ways in this area.  It is probably due to the very
> idiosyncratic spending on sidewalks that can begin and end in the
> middle of blocks and frequently do not have connections to the road
> at
> one end or the other.  Trying to split ways and add information on
> connections would lead to very fragmented way.
>  
> Melanie, I know that there was a partial sidewalk import in
> Carrboro/Chapel Hill years ago and there is currently a mapping
> project
> to add sidewalks in the city of Durham which is about halfway
> complete
> (see https://tasks.openstreetmap.us/project/92).  I cannot speak of
> other cities' data, but the City of Durham data has only the sidewalk
> ways themselves and have no connections to streets or other
> infrastructure such as greenways or railways, so a mass import
> without
> careful integration with existing data would not work.  It is a
> fairly
> labor intensive process.  It would be definitely worth your while to
> work on that as you move forward with a broader import project.
>  
> I think the most currently active NC community is on Slack and you
> might get more detailed conversations there.  Here is the nc slack
> link: https://osmus.slack.com/messages/CAM9RBREE and here is the
> triangle link: https://osmus.slack.com/messages/CDW5X3RRD
>  
> James
>  
> On Mon, 2019-01-28 at 21:02 +0900, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
> > The sidewalk style is somewhat controversial. For routing
> > applications, it is simpler if the sidewalk is added as a tag on
> the
> > highway. This also makes it easier to render clean-looking maps.
> > However, some people prefer to have the sidewalks separately
> mapped,
> > so that they can be seen at high zoom levels in rendered maps.
> >
> > I would suggest checking the current method used in North Carolina,
> > especially in the cities or towns where you plan to add missing
> > sidewalks. It’s probably best to continue using the method that
> local
> > mappers have chosen. This may vary between different towns.
> >
> > Thank you for helping make Openstreetmap even better!
> > On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 7:48 PM Rihards  wrote:
> > > On 27.01.19 21:41, Melanie Mazanec wrote:
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > I'm a front end dev for a city government working on a side
> > > project to
> > > > fork and add to AccessMap <https://www.accessmap.io/> for North
> > > Carolina
> > > > cities.
> > > >
> > > > In order to make this happen, I want to import North Carolina
> > > city
> > > > sidewalk data into OSM.  I have no prior OSM experience, so I'm
> > > > following the suggested wiki protocol and reaching out here
> > > before
> > > > attempting an import.
> > > >
> > > > Does anyone have advice about tutorials or where to start?  Are
> > > there
> > > > any NC OSM communities or enthusiasts I can connect with? 
> Also,
> > > it
> > > > seems like there are two competing sidewalk data formats.  Is
> > > there a
> > > > preferred standard now?
> > >
> > > Hi, that's really great news - welcome to OSM.
> > > It would be useful if you would try some basic mapping first to
> get
> > > familiar with OSM data structure. Try to map something near your
> > > workplace or home.
> > > That doesn't stop you from working on the import, of course. Any
> > > questions on OSM are welcome on the IRC channel #osm (
> > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IRC ), or any other OSM
> > > communication channel.
> > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Melanie Mazanec--
> > >  Rihards
> > >
> > > __

Re: [Talk-us] NC sidewalk data import

[Joe Sapletal]

If you haven’t seen it already, this was a good presentation from SOTM a few 
months ago about Pedestrian Mapping.  Nick briefly discusses the plusses and 
minuses of adding sidewalk values to the existing road way vs creating a way 
that is the actual sidewalk/path that supports a pedestrian network.

https://2018.stateofthemap.us/program/inclusive-pedestrian-mapping-opensidewalks-accessmap-and-accessibility.html


Joe Sapletal

From: jumba...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2019 8:37 AM
To: Joseph Eisenberg; Rihards
Cc: talk-us@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-us] NC sidewalk data import

I can only speak for the Triangle area, but many sidewalks are mapped
as separate ways in this area.  It is probably due to the very
idiosyncratic spending on sidewalks that can begin and end in the
middle of blocks and frequently do not have connections to the road at
one end or the other.  Trying to split ways and add information on
connections would lead to very fragmented way.

Melanie, I know that there was a partial sidewalk import in
Carrboro/Chapel Hill years ago and there is currently a mapping project
to add sidewalks in the city of Durham which is about halfway complete
(see https://tasks.openstreetmap.us/project/92).  I cannot speak of
other cities' data, but the City of Durham data has only the sidewalk
ways themselves and have no connections to streets or other
infrastructure such as greenways or railways, so a mass import without
careful integration with existing data would not work.  It is a fairly
labor intensive process.  It would be definitely worth your while to
work on that as you move forward with a broader import project.

I think the most currently active NC community is on Slack and you
might get more detailed conversations there.  Here is the nc slack
link: https://osmus.slack.com/messages/CAM9RBREE and here is the
triangle link: https://osmus.slack.com/messages/CDW5X3RRD

James

On Mon, 2019-01-28 at 21:02 +0900, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
> The sidewalk style is somewhat controversial. For routing
> applications, it is simpler if the sidewalk is added as a tag on the
> highway. This also makes it easier to render clean-looking maps.
> However, some people prefer to have the sidewalks separately mapped,
> so that they can be seen at high zoom levels in rendered maps.
> 
> I would suggest checking the current method used in North Carolina,
> especially in the cities or towns where you plan to add missing
> sidewalks. It’s probably best to continue using the method that local
> mappers have chosen. This may vary between different towns.
> 
> Thank you for helping make Openstreetmap even better!
> On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 7:48 PM Rihards  wrote:
> > On 27.01.19 21:41, Melanie Mazanec wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > > 
> > > I'm a front end dev for a city government working on a side
> > project to
> > > fork and add to AccessMap <https://www.accessmap.io/> for North
> > Carolina
> > > cities.
> > > 
> > > In order to make this happen, I want to import North Carolina
> > city
> > > sidewalk data into OSM.  I have no prior OSM experience, so I'm
> > > following the suggested wiki protocol and reaching out here
> > before
> > > attempting an import.
> > > 
> > > Does anyone have advice about tutorials or where to start?  Are
> > there
> > > any NC OSM communities or enthusiasts I can connect with?  Also,
> > it
> > > seems like there are two competing sidewalk data formats.  Is
> > there a
> > > preferred standard now?
> > 
> > Hi, that's really great news - welcome to OSM.
> > It would be useful if you would try some basic mapping first to get
> > familiar with OSM data structure. Try to map something near your
> > workplace or home.
> > That doesn't stop you from working on the import, of course. Any
> > questions on OSM are welcome on the IRC channel #osm (
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IRC ), or any other OSM
> > communication channel.
> > 
> > > Thanks,
> > > Melanie Mazanec-- 
> >  Rihards
> > 
> > ___
> > Talk-us mailing list
> > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
> 
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us


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Re: [Talk-us] NC sidewalk data import

[jumbanho]

I can only speak for the Triangle area, but many sidewalks are mapped
as separate ways in this area.  It is probably due to the very
idiosyncratic spending on sidewalks that can begin and end in the
middle of blocks and frequently do not have connections to the road at
one end or the other.  Trying to split ways and add information on
connections would lead to very fragmented way.

Melanie, I know that there was a partial sidewalk import in
Carrboro/Chapel Hill years ago and there is currently a mapping project
to add sidewalks in the city of Durham which is about halfway complete
(see https://tasks.openstreetmap.us/project/92).  I cannot speak of
other cities' data, but the City of Durham data has only the sidewalk
ways themselves and have no connections to streets or other
infrastructure such as greenways or railways, so a mass import without
careful integration with existing data would not work.  It is a fairly
labor intensive process.  It would be definitely worth your while to
work on that as you move forward with a broader import project.

I think the most currently active NC community is on Slack and you
might get more detailed conversations there.  Here is the nc slack
link: https://osmus.slack.com/messages/CAM9RBREE and here is the
triangle link: https://osmus.slack.com/messages/CDW5X3RRD

James

On Mon, 2019-01-28 at 21:02 +0900, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
> The sidewalk style is somewhat controversial. For routing
> applications, it is simpler if the sidewalk is added as a tag on the
> highway. This also makes it easier to render clean-looking maps.
> However, some people prefer to have the sidewalks separately mapped,
> so that they can be seen at high zoom levels in rendered maps.
> 
> I would suggest checking the current method used in North Carolina,
> especially in the cities or towns where you plan to add missing
> sidewalks. It’s probably best to continue using the method that local
> mappers have chosen. This may vary between different towns.
> 
> Thank you for helping make Openstreetmap even better!
> On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 7:48 PM Rihards  wrote:
> > On 27.01.19 21:41, Melanie Mazanec wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > > 
> > > I'm a front end dev for a city government working on a side
> > project to
> > > fork and add to AccessMap  for North
> > Carolina
> > > cities.
> > > 
> > > In order to make this happen, I want to import North Carolina
> > city
> > > sidewalk data into OSM.  I have no prior OSM experience, so I'm
> > > following the suggested wiki protocol and reaching out here
> > before
> > > attempting an import.
> > > 
> > > Does anyone have advice about tutorials or where to start?  Are
> > there
> > > any NC OSM communities or enthusiasts I can connect with?  Also,
> > it
> > > seems like there are two competing sidewalk data formats.  Is
> > there a
> > > preferred standard now?
> > 
> > Hi, that's really great news - welcome to OSM.
> > It would be useful if you would try some basic mapping first to get
> > familiar with OSM data structure. Try to map something near your
> > workplace or home.
> > That doesn't stop you from working on the import, of course. Any
> > questions on OSM are welcome on the IRC channel #osm (
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IRC ), or any other OSM
> > communication channel.
> > 
> > > Thanks,
> > > Melanie Mazanec-- 
> >  Rihards
> > 
> > ___
> > Talk-us mailing list
> > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
> 
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us


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Re: [Talk-us] NC sidewalk data import

[Joseph Eisenberg]

The sidewalk style is somewhat controversial. For routing applications, it
is simpler if the sidewalk is added as a tag on the highway. This also
makes it easier to render clean-looking maps. However, some people prefer
to have the sidewalks separately mapped, so that they can be seen at high
zoom levels in rendered maps.

I would suggest checking the current method used in North Carolina,
especially in the cities or towns where you plan to add missing sidewalks.
It’s probably best to continue using the method that local mappers have
chosen. This may vary between different towns.

Thank you for helping make Openstreetmap even better!
On Mon, Jan 28, 2019 at 7:48 PM Rihards  wrote:

> On 27.01.19 21:41, Melanie Mazanec wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm a front end dev for a city government working on a side project to
> > fork and add to AccessMap  for North Carolina
> > cities.
> >
> > In order to make this happen, I want to import North Carolina city
> > sidewalk data into OSM.  I have no prior OSM experience, so I'm
> > following the suggested wiki protocol and reaching out here before
> > attempting an import.
> >
> > Does anyone have advice about tutorials or where to start?  Are there
> > any NC OSM communities or enthusiasts I can connect with?  Also, it
> > seems like there are two competing sidewalk data formats.  Is there a
> > preferred standard now?
>
> Hi, that's really great news - welcome to OSM.
> It would be useful if you would try some basic mapping first to get
> familiar with OSM data structure. Try to map something near your
> workplace or home.
> That doesn't stop you from working on the import, of course. Any
> questions on OSM are welcome on the IRC channel #osm (
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IRC ), or any other OSM
> communication channel.
>
> > Thanks,
> > Melanie Mazanec--
>  Rihards
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
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Re: [Talk-us] NC sidewalk data import

[Rihards]

On 27.01.19 21:41, Melanie Mazanec wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I'm a front end dev for a city government working on a side project to
> fork and add to AccessMap  for North Carolina
> cities.
> 
> In order to make this happen, I want to import North Carolina city
> sidewalk data into OSM.  I have no prior OSM experience, so I'm
> following the suggested wiki protocol and reaching out here before
> attempting an import.
> 
> Does anyone have advice about tutorials or where to start?  Are there
> any NC OSM communities or enthusiasts I can connect with?  Also, it
> seems like there are two competing sidewalk data formats.  Is there a
> preferred standard now?

Hi, that's really great news - welcome to OSM.
It would be useful if you would try some basic mapping first to get
familiar with OSM data structure. Try to map something near your
workplace or home.
That doesn't stop you from working on the import, of course. Any
questions on OSM are welcome on the IRC channel #osm (
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/IRC ), or any other OSM
communication channel.

> Thanks,
> Melanie Mazanec-- 
 Rihards

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[Talk-us] NC sidewalk data import

[Melanie Mazanec]

Hello,

I'm a front end dev for a city government working on a side project to fork
and add to AccessMap  for North Carolina cities.

In order to make this happen, I want to import North Carolina city sidewalk
data into OSM.  I have no prior OSM experience, so I'm following the
suggested wiki protocol and reaching out here before attempting an import.

Does anyone have advice about tutorials or where to start?  Are there any
NC OSM communities or enthusiasts I can connect with?  Also, it seems like
there are two competing sidewalk data formats.  Is there a preferred
standard now?

Thanks,
Melanie Mazanec
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