Re: [Talk-us] OpenTripPlanner Final Report

[Paul Johnson]

So far, the only ways that I'm aware of that use bicycle=designated are
already neighborhood greenways.

On Mon, 2011-09-05 at 13:53 -0700, PJ Houser wrote:
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2011 07:32:42 -0400
> From: Mike N 
> To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>     Subject: Re: [Talk-us] OpenTripPlanner Final Report
> Message-ID: <4e6361da.7020...@att.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> On 9/3/2011 11:44 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote:
> >> 58: have you considered putting an RFC out on
> cycleway=shared_lane to
> >> get some discussion going around the tag?
> >
> > Every main lane where bikes are allowed is a shared lane.
> Presumably the
> > intent is the indicate where there's a shared lane
> *marking*, i.e. a
> > sharrow.
> 
>   There was a lengthy discussion on how to best mark sharrows,
> and it
> seemed to trend toward "bicycle=designated" which the OTP
> router is using.
> 
> Mike, 
> 
> Our version of OTP is only using bicycle=designated for
> paths/footways/pedestrian/cycleway because of the lack of objective
> criteria (such as signs or sharrows). It will eventually, but we felt
> that cycleway=shared_lane is most appropriate for roads with sharrows.
> In Portland, all "greenways" (what used to be called bike boulevards -
> http://www.portlandonline.com/transportation/index.cfm?c=50518&a=348902) will 
> be signed with sharrows. There are roads that are called bike routes by the 
> regional agency but don't have any markings, so we used our local tag 
> RLIS:bicycle=designated for this. As for bicycle=designated, we only use that 
> on non-motorized ways because of the controversy and occasional edit wars for 
> highway=path/cycleway/footway. The bicycle=designated/yes means that the way 
> can be switched between footway or path or pedestrian or whatever the editors 
> want, but the OTP router will still know that bicycles are intended/allowed 
> on the way. I'm not sure if any of the other OTP routers have gone live yet, 
> so I don't know where bicycle=designated is being used elsewhere. I'm 
> definitely interested in knowing because this is a discussion we've had a lot 
> - how to mark different levels of bicycle safety.
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2011 23:44:55 -0400
> From: Nathan Edgars II 
> To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] OpenTripPlanner Final Report
> Message-ID: <4e62f437.5050...@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> On 9/3/2011 11:23 PM, Josh Doe wrote:
> > 58: have you considered putting an RFC out on
> cycleway=shared_lane to
> > get some discussion going around the tag?
> 
> Every main lane where bikes are allowed is a shared lane.
> Presumably the
> intent is the indicate where there's a shared lane *marking*,
> i.e. a
> sharrow.
> 
> Nathan,
> 
> It appears that the proposed feature cycleway=shared_lane is defined
> as "roads which contain a shared lane marking, or sharrow, to indicate
> that the travel lane is shared by bicycles and other
> vehicles" (http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/shared_lane).
> 
> Josh and Martjin,
> 
> Thanks for the input!
> 
> --
> PJ Houser
> Trimet
> GIS intern
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us



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Re: [Talk-us] OpenTripPlanner Final Report

[PJ Houser]

>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 04 Sep 2011 07:32:42 -0400
> From: Mike N 
> To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] OpenTripPlanner Final Report
> Message-ID: <4e6361da.7020...@att.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 9/3/2011 11:44 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote:
> >> 58: have you considered putting an RFC out on cycleway=shared_lane to
> >> get some discussion going around the tag?
> >
> > Every main lane where bikes are allowed is a shared lane. Presumably the
> > intent is the indicate where there's a shared lane *marking*, i.e. a
> > sharrow.
>
>   There was a lengthy discussion on how to best mark sharrows, and it
> seemed to trend toward "bicycle=designated" which the OTP router is using.
>

Mike,

Our version of OTP is only using bicycle=designated for
paths/footways/pedestrian/cycleway because of the lack of objective criteria
(such as signs or sharrows). It will eventually, but we felt that
cycleway=shared_lane is most appropriate for roads with sharrows. In
Portland, all "greenways" (what used to be called bike boulevards -
http://www.portlandonline.com/transportation/index.cfm?c=50518&a=348902)
will be signed with sharrows. There are roads that are called bike routes by
the regional agency but don't have any markings, so we used our local tag
RLIS:bicycle=designated for this. As for bicycle=designated, we only use
that on non-motorized ways because of the controversy and occasional edit
wars for highway=path/cycleway/footway. The bicycle=designated/yes means
that the way can be switched between footway or path or pedestrian or
whatever the editors want, but the OTP router will still know that bicycles
are intended/allowed on the way. I'm not sure if any of the other OTP
routers have gone live yet, so I don't know where bicycle=designated is
being used elsewhere. I'm definitely interested in knowing because this is a
discussion we've had a lot - how to mark different levels of bicycle safety.

Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2011 23:44:55 -0400
> From: Nathan Edgars II 
> To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] OpenTripPlanner Final Report
> Message-ID: <4e62f437.5050...@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 9/3/2011 11:23 PM, Josh Doe wrote:
> > 58: have you considered putting an RFC out on cycleway=shared_lane to
> > get some discussion going around the tag?
>
> Every main lane where bikes are allowed is a shared lane. Presumably the
> intent is the indicate where there's a shared lane *marking*, i.e. a
> sharrow.
>

Nathan,

It appears that the proposed feature cycleway=shared_lane is defined as
"roads which contain a shared lane marking, or sharrow, to indicate that the
travel lane is shared by bicycles and other vehicles" (
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/shared_lane).

Josh and Martjin,

Thanks for the input!

--
PJ Houser
Trimet
GIS intern
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Re: [Talk-us] OpenTripPlanner Final Report

[Mike N]

On 9/3/2011 11:44 PM, Nathan Edgars II wrote:

58: have you considered putting an RFC out on cycleway=shared_lane to
get some discussion going around the tag?


Every main lane where bikes are allowed is a shared lane. Presumably the
intent is the indicate where there's a shared lane *marking*, i.e. a
sharrow.


  There was a lengthy discussion on how to best mark sharrows, and it 
seemed to trend toward "bicycle=designated" which the OTP router is using.


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Re: [Talk-us] OpenTripPlanner Final Report

[Nathan Edgars II]

On 9/3/2011 11:23 PM, Josh Doe wrote:

58: have you considered putting an RFC out on cycleway=shared_lane to
get some discussion going around the tag?


Every main lane where bikes are allowed is a shared lane. Presumably the 
intent is the indicate where there's a shared lane *marking*, i.e. a 
sharrow.


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Re: [Talk-us] OpenTripPlanner Final Report

[Josh Doe]

Great work, I just finished reading it. A few comments on the OSM portion:

52: I hope others get interested in conflation of OSM data, maybe
it'll be a GSoC project someday; even if we don't have a complete
solution, there are ways to ease the process

56: there was indeed a bug in ogr2osm where it would ignore the last
attribute, but it should be fixed as of about 2 weeks ago
(http://trac.openstreetmap.org/ticket/3144)

57: I wouldn't say "Due to rendering, ...", as there is a mantra in
OSM "don't tag for the renderer", however if you tag correctly you
won't have street type (classification) changing frequently

57: ogr2osm can take multiple attributes into account when creating
tags, as you have the full power of Python at your disposal, i.e. you
can skip the load into JOSM & change oneway tag bit (feel free to ask
on the list how to do this, I'd be happy to help)

58: we should probably work toward creating objective criteria for the
safeness of roads, so we can eliminate the need for tags like
RLIS:bicycle=caution_area in the future; it would be great to get that
discussion going on what's the minimum amount of information needed to
make this determination (shoulder width, outside lane width, etc.)

58: have you considered putting an RFC out on cycleway=shared_lane to
get some discussion going around the tag?

59: instead of converting .osm layers to GPX and repeating every so
often, you can change the styling of the background layer. Also, look
into using custom map styles like I demonstrated here
:http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:MassDOT (feel free to ask
list for help with specifics)

60: if mapping sidewalks as separate ways is too time consuming,
consider using the sidewalk=left/right/both/yes/no tags; in the future
some may map them as separate ways and can add details like curb cuts
(kerb=dropped), surface, etc.

60: highway=crossing should absolutely be used if mapping as separate
ways, see this example which also uses kerb=*:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/kerb#Examples

61: I'm very interested in the QC process, let us know how it goes; if
you have any ideas for a smartphone or tablet app that would help with
QC, please share with the list! I think something along the lines of
combining the features of the Android apps Vespucci and OSMTracker
would be great, but perhaps using vector rendering that could have
custom styles for QC'ing specific features, like kerbs


It's clear that your group has put a lot of care into this work, and I
thank you all for that! I'm excited about OTP, and hope at some point
to setup a demo of it for my region (Washington DC), but it probably
won't be anytime soon. Thanks again!
-Josh


On Fri, Sep 2, 2011 at 7:03 PM, PJ Houser
 wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> TriMet, the Portland region transit agency, has released a report on the
> OpenTripPlanner Project for its Metro 2009-2011 Regional Travel Options
> Grant. You can find information on its four county OSM improvement project
> on p. 34 and in Appendix D, p. 50. Though the report is in its final form,
> the OSM Improvement Project is an ongoing project, so feel free to send your
> input to me.
>
> A copy of the report has been placed on the OTP developer wiki
> at https://github.com/openplans/OpenTripPlanner/wiki.
>
> Thank you!
> --
> PJ Houser
> Trimet
> GIS intern, 503-962-4814 (office)
>
>
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>
>

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Re: [Talk-us] OpenTripPlanner Final Report

[Mike N]

On 9/2/2011 7:03 PM, PJ Houser wrote:

Hi all,

TriMet, the Portland region transit agency, has released a report on the
OpenTripPlanner Project for its Metro 2009-2011 Regional Travel Options
Grant.


 Great report!  It will be interesting to see the public reaction when 
it goes live.


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[Talk-us] OpenTripPlanner Final Report

[PJ Houser]

Hi all,

TriMet, the Portland region transit agency, has released a report on the
OpenTripPlanner Project for its Metro 2009-2011 Regional Travel Options
Grant. You can find information on its four county OSM improvement project
on p. 34 and in Appendix D, p. 50. Though the report is in its final form,
the OSM Improvement Project is an ongoing project, so feel free to send your
input to me.

A copy of the report
has
been placed on the OTP developer wiki at
https://github.com/openplans/OpenTripPlanner/wiki.

Thank you!
--
PJ Houser
Trimet
GIS intern, 503-962-4814 (office)
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