Re: [Talk-us] Railroads and Railroads (Historic)
Hi Nathan: Good to see your thoughtful questions here on talk-us. I have seen your edits and I believe you have a depth of knowledge about tagging railroads already. I believe in tagging attributes that we know to be true about things as we edit them, or before we edit them. Tagging is free-form, but free-form can include being thoughtful, especially as it incorporates deep personal knowledge. Smarter tagging includes reaching out to others who might or do have deep knowledge. In other words, while one smart person making a proposal is good, two or more putting their heads together (especially with complementary or multiplicative/non-overlapping experience) is even better. And builds consensus and community. No doubt you have seen that historic=ruins is a tag used to attribute a specific semantic: something either like a castle, fort or wall or might have been a castle, fort or wall, or goes in that direction. Historic in this sense goes back hundreds of years, or certainly thousands. Railroads, especially the earliest ones, might make it to a sesquicentennial and so encroach this boundary, but early railroads are an interesting blend of technological industrial achievement in the context of human historic ruins. Food for thought. I think historic=railroad and ruins=railroad can both work, in the right contexts. Help to sharpen these up! I don't know how the ruins=railroad tag might already be established; tagwatch isn't my forte, anybody? Rail-banking is a real legal and along a spectrum activity that OSM should accommodate. Perhaps a full description of this spectrum in an OSM wiki page with various proposal tags might emerge with you? If you have a reasonable perspective on how tagging might begin, evolve, grow and be (become) useful, I think OSM as a project invites you to bring it forward as best you might advance the subject. So, soliciting how railways are used, banked, contribute to accidents (as John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com writes) is knowledge that you might have (maybe you do), others might have, and others certainly do not. The right thing to do is to have OSM best capture both what you know (in the real world) and about railways. You might write up a wiki page that proposes certain tags in certain circumstances, this is one way OSM grows. Do your best to posit a smart set of tags, an intelligent way to use them using the concept of a life cycle of railroads, and best express this as a tagging scheme. Then both use it, document, and improve it. I'm not just talking to you (Nathan) here, and I'm not just talking about railroads. I'm talking to everybody in OSM about everything: using things (tags) smartly and documenting and gaining consensus and making it smarter as we go (while getting intelligent feedback in a loop while growing better and smarter ad infinitum)... simply IS our OSM and how it works. On a good day. SteveA California On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 4:26 PM, John F. Eldredge mailto:j...@jfeldredge.comj...@jfeldredge.com wrote: On 11/10/2013 03:30 PM, nathan proudfoot wrote: Hello got some questions about Railroads, I have a passion for the preservation of railroads and the maps surrounding them. I both update current map data with a line per each track. Track is in most cases two rails attached by a sleeper or tie. I have over 10,000 edits over on GMM and under 4,000 with OSM. I am mostly coming to ask about historic railroads and how to map them. In my area we have lots of rail trails, these trails mostly have been mapped by bicycle=yes foot=yes highway=cycleway horse=yes name=John Wayne Pioneer Trail note=railway=abandoned indicates a rail-trail old_railway_operator=Milwaukee railway=abandoned Ect.. Is this the way that we should be mapping these as there are historic attributes. For instance we could add. historic=ruins ruins=railroad or we could remove railway=abandoned but in this case the railroad is rail banked and could be brought out of abandoned status. We have other routes in the state that are not rail banked and are historic and are not seen as abandoned. Best Regards, Nathan Proudfoot email: mailto:n.pf...@gmail.comn.pf...@gmail.com We probably need a value such as railway=inactive for routes that are not in use, but still have the rails in place. The only problem is that, if someone erroneously tags an active but little-used route as inactive, this could lead to an accident if someone went hiking or rail-biking on the route. -- John F. Eldredge -- mailto:j...@jfeldredge.comj...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Talk-us mailing list mailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.orgTalk-us@openstreetmap.org
[Talk-us] Railroads and Railroads (Historic)
Hello got some questions about Railroads, I have a passion for the preservation of railroads and the maps surrounding them. I both update current map data with a line per each track. Track is in most cases two rails attached by a sleeper or tie. I have over 10,000 edits over on GMM and under 4,000 with OSM. I am mostly coming to ask about historic railroads and how to map them. In my area we have lots of rail trails, these trails mostly have been mapped by bicycle=yes foot=yes highway=cycleway horse=yes name=John Wayne Pioneer Trail note=railway=abandoned indicates a rail-trail old_railway_operator=Milwaukee railway=abandoned Ect.. Is this the way that we should be mapping these as there are historic attributes. For instance we could add. historic=ruins ruins=railroad or we could remove railway=abandoned but in this case the railroad is rail banked and could be brought out of abandoned status. We have other routes in the state that are not rail banked and are historic and are not seen as abandoned. Best Regards, Nathan Proudfoot email: n.pf...@gmail.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Railroads and Railroads (Historic)
On 11/10/2013 03:30 PM, nathan proudfoot wrote: Hello got some questions about Railroads, I have a passion for the preservation of railroads and the maps surrounding them. I both update current map data with a line per each track. Track is in most cases two rails attached by a sleeper or tie. I have over 10,000 edits over on GMM and under 4,000 with OSM. I am mostly coming to ask about historic railroads and how to map them. In my area we have lots of rail trails, these trails mostly have been mapped by bicycle=yes foot=yes highway=cycleway horse=yes name=John Wayne Pioneer Trail note=railway=abandoned indicates a rail-trail old_railway_operator=Milwaukee railway=abandoned Ect.. Is this the way that we should be mapping these as there are historic attributes. For instance we could add. historic=ruins ruins=railroad or we could remove railway=abandoned but in this case the railroad is rail banked and could be brought out of abandoned status. We have other routes in the state that are not rail banked and are historic and are not seen as abandoned. Best Regards, Nathan Proudfoot email: n.pf...@gmail.com mailto:n.pf...@gmail.com We probably need a value such as railway=inactive for routes that are not in use, but still have the rails in place. The only problem is that, if someone erroneously tags an active but little-used route as inactive, this could lead to an accident if someone went hiking or rail-biking on the route. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. attachment: john.vcf___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Railroads and Railroads (Historic)
On Sun, 2013-11-10 at 18:26 -0600, John F. Eldredge wrote: We probably need a value such as railway=inactive for routes that are not in use, but still have the rails in place. The only problem is that, if someone erroneously tags an active but little-used route as inactive, this could lead to an accident if someone went hiking or rail-biking on the route. The wiki suggests, and I have seen frequently used, railway=disused -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Railroads and Railroads (Historic)
John, As listed by James we have, railway=disused I would not encourage hiking or rail-biking any of these routes as they are in question by the tag of disused and most of these are still going to be private property. Once abandoned it is no longer a railroad per-say. Best Regards, Nathan Proudfoot email: n.pf...@gmail.com On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 4:26 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.comwrote: On 11/10/2013 03:30 PM, nathan proudfoot wrote: Hello got some questions about Railroads, I have a passion for the preservation of railroads and the maps surrounding them. I both update current map data with a line per each track. Track is in most cases two rails attached by a sleeper or tie. I have over 10,000 edits over on GMM and under 4,000 with OSM. I am mostly coming to ask about historic railroads and how to map them. In my area we have lots of rail trails, these trails mostly have been mapped by bicycle=yes foot=yes highway=cycleway horse=yes name=John Wayne Pioneer Trail note=railway=abandoned indicates a rail-trail old_railway_operator=Milwaukee railway=abandoned Ect.. Is this the way that we should be mapping these as there are historic attributes. For instance we could add. historic=ruins ruins=railroad or we could remove railway=abandoned but in this case the railroad is rail banked and could be brought out of abandoned status. We have other routes in the state that are not rail banked and are historic and are not seen as abandoned. Best Regards, Nathan Proudfoot email: n.pf...@gmail.com We probably need a value such as railway=inactive for routes that are not in use, but still have the rails in place. The only problem is that, if someone erroneously tags an active but little-used route as inactive, this could lead to an accident if someone went hiking or rail-biking on the route. -- John F. Eldredge -- j...@jfeldredge.com Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
