Re: [Talk-us] Should this be a dual carriageway?
On 01/11/2015 07:32 PM, Greg Troxel wrote: However, north of the rotary for quite a while, it should just be primary. There are intersections and lights all over the place, nothing better than an ordinary US highwway that happens to have two lanes each way. It's posted 40 and we really mean it, for what that's worth, which is kind of like being posted 30 :-) I agree. - Lars ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Should this be a dual carriageway?
(I'm writing from the perspective of having driven Route 6 from the sagamore bridge to north eastham every summer for many years, and to Provincetown a few years ago.) If we're talking about where Route 6 goes from 2 lanes each direction with a real median down to one lane in each direction with a yellow line with plastic thingies stuck up, ending at the orleans rotary, it was still like that in late August of 2014, unchanged for many years. Construction of that would be such big news that Lars and I would have heard about it. I don't know when this picture was taken: http://www.bostonroads.com/roads/mid-cape/img10.gif but it looked like that last summer. In particular, that's a bridge for the cape code rail trail, and is probably http://osm.org/go/Ze0Y15wyd-- It definitely should be trunk. It's nowhere near motorway (no real median, 1 lane each way). It's way better than a regular US highway, in that it is limited access, with higher speeds. I see it's been retagged recently, and I concur. However, north of the rotary for quite a while, it should just be primary. There are intersections and lights all over the place, nothing better than an ordinary US highwway that happens to have two lanes each way. It's posted 40 and we really mean it, for what that's worth, which is kind of like being posted 30 :-) I can see calling it trunk north of Wellfleet until Ptown starts, but it's iffy. pgpqjjvlbPGFd.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Should this be a dual carriageway?
On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 12:03 PM, Zontine, Chris -(p) chr...@telenav.com wrote: While mapping a FIXME in the US this situation came up: WAY ID 8822153. The FIXME implies this WAY (and others) should have a dual carriageway. As you can see this is one long stretch of highway=motorway. What is the thought on this? Not clear from a casual glance if there's a median in the middle of the quadruple lines, but it does look like a super-two. I'd call it a motorway and two ways if there's no at-grade intersections except for links plus a barrier down the center, trunk and two ways if there's at grade intersections or a single way if it's undivided with limited access (apply turn restrictions liberally as routing engines will try to make you U-turn to take the oncoming exit ramp if you miss your exit otherwise, or make an illegal U-turn if you accidentally turn the wrong direction in this situation without them). ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Should this be a dual carriageway?
On 01/08/2015 06:02 PM, Richard Welty wrote: On 1/8/15 5:57 PM, Mike N wrote: On 1/8/2015 5:51 PM, Richard Welty wrote: i don't think this photo is relevant to the section that Chris is talking about; it's a different section of US 6. i think this road is in dire need of a ground survey. Oops - I forgot to mention that it was the middle photo. I think this one will work http://www.bostonroads.com/roads/mid-cape/img10.gif i think the plastic bollards might be enough to justify dual carriageway, but it's a judgement call. since the photo is 2006, i still think a ground survey would be best. i haven't seen this road personally since the 90s, so my recollections are vague and very much out of date. That's what I remember that section looking like last summer. Since there's no (real) median, my vote is for keeping it as a single way. Reclassifying it as trunk may be appropriate, though. - Lars ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Should this be a dual carriageway?
On 1/8/2015 3:13 PM, Zontine, Chris -(p) wrote: Thanks for the research. I will change the highway to trunk and leave as a single carriageway. I found this old photo http://www.bostonroads.com/roads/mid-cape/ , which seems to approximately match the recent Bing. If it's still in this configuration, a single carriageway is probably best. The double double yellows would imply no turns and no U, but I haven't reviewed the state or regional laws. (Of course a survey and local knowledge is best...blah...blah) ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Should this be a dual carriageway?
On 1/8/15 5:41 PM, Mike N wrote: On 1/8/2015 3:13 PM, Zontine, Chris -(p) wrote: Thanks for the research. I will change the highway to trunk and leave as a single carriageway. I found this old photo http://www.bostonroads.com/roads/mid-cape/ , which seems to approximately match the recent Bing. If it's still in this configuration, a single carriageway is probably best. The double double yellows would imply no turns and no U, but I haven't reviewed the state or regional laws. i don't think this photo is relevant to the section that Chris is talking about; it's a different section of US 6. i think this road is in dire need of a ground survey. richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Should this be a dual carriageway?
On 1/8/2015 5:51 PM, Richard Welty wrote: I found this old photo http://www.bostonroads.com/roads/mid-cape/ , which seems to approximately match the recent Bing. If it's still in this configuration, a single carriageway is probably best. The double double yellows would imply no turns and no U, but I haven't reviewed the state or regional laws. i don't think this photo is relevant to the section that Chris is talking about; it's a different section of US 6. i think this road is in dire need of a ground survey. Oops - I forgot to mention that it was the middle photo. I think this one will work http://www.bostonroads.com/roads/mid-cape/img10.gif ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Should this be a dual carriageway?
On 1/8/15 5:57 PM, Mike N wrote: On 1/8/2015 5:51 PM, Richard Welty wrote: i don't think this photo is relevant to the section that Chris is talking about; it's a different section of US 6. i think this road is in dire need of a ground survey. Oops - I forgot to mention that it was the middle photo. I think this one will work http://www.bostonroads.com/roads/mid-cape/img10.gif i think the plastic bollards might be enough to justify dual carriageway, but it's a judgement call. since the photo is 2006, i still think a ground survey would be best. i haven't seen this road personally since the 90s, so my recollections are vague and very much out of date. richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
[Talk-us] Should this be a dual carriageway?
While mapping a FIXME in the US this situation came up: WAY ID 8822153. The FIXME implies this WAY (and others) should have a dual carriageway. As you can see this is one long stretch of highway=motorway. What is the thought on this? OSM Heat Map: http://yosmhm.neis-one.org/?ChrisZontine OSM Edit Stats: http://hdyc.neis-one.org/?ChrisZontine ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Should this be a dual carriageway?
On 1/8/15 1:03 PM, Zontine, Chris -(p) wrote: While mapping a FIXME in the US this situation came up: WAY ID 8822153. The FIXME implies this WAY (and others) should have a dual carriageway. As you can see this is one long stretch of highway=motorway. What is the thought on this? it looks like it is divided by a barrier but single lane each way. it would be good to verify the presence of the barrier. i think a motorway designation is borderline given the single lane, but a trunk would be about right. given verification of the barrier, dual carriageway would be correct. richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Should this be a dual carriageway?
From Bing I am wondering it is isn't a super two (limited access, two way road) which I think we've been tagging as highway=trunk. If there is actually a barrier in the middle that is not visible in Bing, then it should split into two separate one lane ways. Not sure I'd hang a motorway tag on it though as that requires a minimum of two lanes in each direction. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dmotorway Tod On Jan 8, 2015, at 10:36 AM, Richard Welty wrote: On 1/8/15 1:03 PM, Zontine, Chris -(p) wrote: While mapping a FIXME in the US this situation came up: WAY ID 8822153. The FIXME implies this WAY (and others) should have a dual carriageway. As you can see this is one long stretch of highway=motorway. What is the thought on this? it looks like it is divided by a barrier but single lane each way. it would be good to verify the presence of the barrier. i think a motorway designation is borderline given the single lane, but a trunk would be about right. given verification of the barrier, dual carriageway would be correct. richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Should this be a dual carriageway?
Thanks for the research. I will change the highway to trunk and leave as a single carriageway. -Original Message- From: Tod Fitch [mailto:t...@fitchdesign.com] Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 12:05 PM To: Zontine, Chris -(p) Cc: talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Should this be a dual carriageway? And then from http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States_roads_tagging#Trunk_tag there is Most controlled-access highways without adequate speed or travel lanes or with obstructions should be designated highway=trunk. This designation applies, for example, to the two-lane Interstate 93 in northern New Hampshire Even if it is a dual carrageway, unless it has been rebuilt since the Bing imagery it only has one lane per direction which from the above quote would indicate trunk rather than motorway. On Jan 8, 2015, at 11:51 AM, Zontine, Chris -(p) wrote: Regarding tagging highway=motorway or highway=trunk my take is the documentation is a bit ambiguous. I've posted the paragraph here. See 'In the less usual case ... along the same carriageway use a single way ...'. I do not see a barrier using BING nor Mapbox Satellite. However, TIGER 2014 shows as a dual carriageway. Umm ... what to do? Follow TIGER? Or remove the FIXME and do nothing more? From the wiki: 'A motorway is normally represented by a series two parallel ways, one for each carriageway tagged with highway=motorway. These ways should all point direction of travel and be tagged with oneway=yes. In the less usual case of a motorway where traffic travels in both directions along the same carriageway use a single way and tag it with oneway=no. ' From: Tod Fitch [mailto:t...@fitchdesign.com] Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 10:43 AM To: Richard Welty Cc: talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Should this be a dual carriageway? From Bing I am wondering it is isn't a super two (limited access, two way road) which I think we've been tagging as highway=trunk. If there is actually a barrier in the middle that is not visible in Bing, then it should split into two separate one lane ways. Not sure I'd hang a motorway tag on it though as that requires a minimum of two lanes in each direction. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dmotorway Tod On Jan 8, 2015, at 10:36 AM, Richard Welty wrote: On 1/8/15 1:03 PM, Zontine, Chris -(p) wrote: While mapping a FIXME in the US this situation came up: WAY ID 8822153. The FIXME implies this WAY (and others) should have a dual carriageway. As you can see this is one long stretch of highway=motorway. What is the thought on this? it looks like it is divided by a barrier but single lane each way. it would be good to verify the presence of the barrier. i think a motorway designation is borderline given the single lane, but a trunk would be about right. given verification of the barrier, dual carriageway would be correct. richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Should this be a dual carriageway?
Regarding tagging highway=motorway or highway=trunk my take is the documentation is a bit ambiguous. I've posted the paragraph here. See 'In the less usual case ... along the same carriageway use a single way ...'. I do not see a barrier using BING nor Mapbox Satellite. However, TIGER 2014 shows as a dual carriageway. Umm ... what to do? Follow TIGER? Or remove the FIXME and do nothing more? From the wiki: 'A motorway is normally represented by a series two parallel ways, one for each carriagewayhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/carriageway tagged with highway=motorway. These ways should all point direction of travel and be tagged with oneway=yes. In the less usual case of a motorway where traffic travels in both directions along the same carriageway use a single way and tag it with oneway=no. ' From: Tod Fitch [mailto:t...@fitchdesign.com] Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 10:43 AM To: Richard Welty Cc: talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Should this be a dual carriageway? From Bing I am wondering it is isn't a super two (limited access, two way road) which I think we've been tagging as highway=trunk. If there is actually a barrier in the middle that is not visible in Bing, then it should split into two separate one lane ways. Not sure I'd hang a motorway tag on it though as that requires a minimum of two lanes in each direction. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dmotorway Tod On Jan 8, 2015, at 10:36 AM, Richard Welty wrote: On 1/8/15 1:03 PM, Zontine, Chris -(p) wrote: While mapping a FIXME in the US this situation came up: WAY ID 8822153. The FIXME implies this WAY (and others) should have a dual carriageway. As you can see this is one long stretch of highway=motorway. What is the thought on this? it looks like it is divided by a barrier but single lane each way. it would be good to verify the presence of the barrier. i think a motorway designation is borderline given the single lane, but a trunk would be about right. given verification of the barrier, dual carriageway would be correct. richard -- rwe...@averillpark.netmailto:rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.orgmailto:Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Should this be a dual carriageway?
And then from http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/United_States_roads_tagging#Trunk_tag there is Most controlled-access highways without adequate speed or travel lanes or with obstructions should be designated highway=trunk. This designation applies, for example, to the two-lane Interstate 93 in northern New Hampshire Even if it is a dual carrageway, unless it has been rebuilt since the Bing imagery it only has one lane per direction which from the above quote would indicate trunk rather than motorway. On Jan 8, 2015, at 11:51 AM, Zontine, Chris -(p) wrote: Regarding tagging highway=motorway or highway=trunk my take is the documentation is a bit ambiguous. I’ve posted the paragraph here. See ‘In the less usual case … along the same carriageway use a single way …’. I do not see a barrier using BING nor Mapbox Satellite. However, TIGER 2014 shows as a dual carriageway. Umm … what to do? Follow TIGER? Or remove the FIXME and do nothing more? From the wiki: ‘A motorway is normally represented by a series two parallel ways, one for each carriageway tagged with highway=motorway. These ways should all point direction of travel and be tagged with oneway=yes. In the less usual case of a motorway where traffic travels in both directions along the same carriageway use a single way and tag it with oneway=no. ‘ From: Tod Fitch [mailto:t...@fitchdesign.com] Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 10:43 AM To: Richard Welty Cc: talk-us@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Should this be a dual carriageway? From Bing I am wondering it is isn't a super two (limited access, two way road) which I think we've been tagging as highway=trunk. If there is actually a barrier in the middle that is not visible in Bing, then it should split into two separate one lane ways. Not sure I'd hang a motorway tag on it though as that requires a minimum of two lanes in each direction. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dmotorway Tod On Jan 8, 2015, at 10:36 AM, Richard Welty wrote: On 1/8/15 1:03 PM, Zontine, Chris -(p) wrote: While mapping a FIXME in the US this situation came up: WAY ID 8822153. The FIXME implies this WAY (and others) should have a dual carriageway. As you can see this is one long stretch of highway=motorway. What is the thought on this? it looks like it is divided by a barrier but single lane each way. it would be good to verify the presence of the barrier. i think a motorway designation is borderline given the single lane, but a trunk would be about right. given verification of the barrier, dual carriageway would be correct. richard -- rwe...@averillpark.net Averill Park Networking - GIS IT Consulting OpenStreetMap - PostgreSQL - Linux Java - Web Applications - Search ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
