Re: [Talk-us] rebooting: tagging footways and sidewalks discussion

[maning sambale]

Hi,

2 months ago, we posted this discussion.  So far, we've finished
tagging ~30K ways (sidewalks and crossings)
We focused on several key cities with a lot of sidewalks.  Details of
our efforts here:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/srividya_c/diary/37594

The map is updated daily so anyone can continue working on their own
patch: https://mapbox.com/osm-sidewalker

As usual all OSM related mapping we do is tracked here:
https://github.com/mapbox/mapping/issues

Thanks!

On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 9:16 PM, Harald Kliems  wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 30, 2015 at 8:59 AM maning sambale 
> wrote:
>>
>> Mapbox data team also started editing a few areas today and we found a
>> couple of tagging issues like turn_restrictions for footways, detected
>> sidewalks with bicycle=yes (is this common in the US?)
>
> Yes, this is very common and varies from city to city. Some places, for
> example, have a blanket sidewalk cycling restriction is certain parts of
> town (e.g. Portland OR downtown), whereas others have more arcane rules such
> as "no sidewalk cycling where building directly abut the sidewalk or where
> it is posted."
>
> Turn restrictions: I wonder if someone used those to reflect a "no
> pedestrian crossing" sign at an intersection?
>
> Harald.



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Re: [Talk-us] rebooting: tagging footways and sidewalks discussion

[maning sambale]

> I hope your team isn't changing trails like the Burke-Gillman to include a
> footway=sidewalk tag. While these do a times run along roads, they are not
> really sidewalks. Can we get some assurances that named footpaths will be
> left to someone with local knowledge to review?
Yes, Clifford. We don't tag named footpaths.

-- 
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Re: [Talk-us] rebooting: tagging footways and sidewalks discussion

[Clifford Snow]

Maning,
People should checkout https://www.mapbox.com/osm-sidewalker/ to error
checking their locality. This is a nice sidewalk checker.

One comment. I have a named footway, Kulshan Trail, that run east-west
through the middle of my city. While it occasionally is adjacent or near a
name highway, it shouldn't be associated with that way. It's name should
suffice for routing. Another example would be the Burke Gillman Trail in
Seattle. Everyone knows exactly what you are talking about. If I mention
the sidewalk adjacent to North North Lake Way, they'll look at me like I
don't know what I'm talking about.

For example osm-sidewalker wants to  tag "_osm_way_id": 222923323
"proposed:footway":
"sidewalk", "proposed:associatedStreet": "Kulshan Avenue"

Does a named footpath need to be associated with a street? Shouldn't the
name be sufficient for routing?

I am getting to work with a nearby city to help them map their sidewalks.
I'm a strong proponent of using the sidewalk=both/right/left tag on the
road. (Although there are instances that footways have to be added in
manually.) It is easy to do in JOSM. Not so much in iD. I'd rather not
start off trying to teach people how to install JAVA and JOSM on Windows
laptops. Anyone have any good suggestions for tools to make it easy map
sidewalks?

Looking to hear more about your efforts.

Clifford



On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 4:19 AM, maning sambale 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> We are working on improving tags for sidewalk in the US.  Details in
> this issue [0].
> The sidewalk detection algorithm runs OK in most cases but fails in
> some [1].  Mostly the contention was whether a footway separated by a
> grassy area from the road is considered a sidewalk which was already
> discussed in this list [2].
>
> The wiki defines sidewalk as "often separated from the carriageway (or
> roadway) by a kerb (also curb)". [3]
>
> As in most cases in OSM, we would like to defer to the local (US)
> community on how they define it.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> [0] https://github.com/mapbox/mapping/issues/125
> [1] https://www.mapbox.com/bites/00186/#
> [2]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2014-April/012984.html
> [3] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sidewalks
>
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> --
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> https://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> http://twitter.com/maningsambale
> --
>
> ___
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>



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[Talk-us] rebooting: tagging footways and sidewalks discussion

[maning sambale]

Hi,

We are working on improving tags for sidewalk in the US.  Details in
this issue [0].
The sidewalk detection algorithm runs OK in most cases but fails in
some [1].  Mostly the contention was whether a footway separated by a
grassy area from the road is considered a sidewalk which was already
discussed in this list [2].

The wiki defines sidewalk as "often separated from the carriageway (or
roadway) by a kerb (also curb)". [3]

As in most cases in OSM, we would like to defer to the local (US)
community on how they define it.



Thanks!

[0] https://github.com/mapbox/mapping/issues/125
[1] https://www.mapbox.com/bites/00186/#
[2] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2014-April/012984.html
[3] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sidewalks

-- 
cheers,
maning
--
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https://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
http://twitter.com/maningsambale
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Re: [Talk-us] rebooting: tagging footways and sidewalks discussion

[Clifford Snow]

On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 4:19 AM, maning sambale 
wrote:

> We are working on improving tags for sidewalk in the US.  Details in
> this issue [0].
> The sidewalk detection algorithm runs OK in most cases but fails in
> some [1].  Mostly the contention was whether a footway separated by a
> grassy area from the road is considered a sidewalk which was already
> discussed in this list [2].
>
> The wiki defines sidewalk as "often separated from the carriageway (or
> roadway) by a kerb (also curb)". [3]
>
> As in most cases in OSM, we would like to defer to the local (US)
> community on how they define it.
>

I appreciate you tackling this problem. I've started to try to just produce
a sidewalk map for my city. Cartography is one of the many skill sets I'm
missing so it is taking a long time.  Haven't even begun to work on
routing.

One of the problems is the difference between JOSM and iD when tagging
sidewalks.

iD automatically assignes highway=footway, footway=sidewalk when the user
uses sidewalk in the search. As I read the wiki, that combination should
only be used when the footway is adjacent to a road. In which case, adding
the tag sidewalk=both/right/left would seem to be more appropriate.

JOSM doesn't seem to know about the footway=sidewalk. Of course it can be
added manually.



FYI  - The sidewalk wiki page has been changed 7 times just this year.



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Re: [Talk-us] rebooting: tagging footways and sidewalks discussion

[Paul Norman]

On 10/27/2015 7:33 AM, Marc Gemis wrote:
I just noticed a similar question on the tagging mailing list: 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2015-October/027115.html 


It would be nice to combine efforts, not ?


Yes, this isn't a US issue so the discussions on the tagging@ list would 
be a good place to raise it.


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Re: [Talk-us] rebooting: tagging footways and sidewalks discussion

[Marc Gemis]

I just noticed a similar question on the tagging mailing list:
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2015-October/027115.html
It would be nice to combine efforts, not ?

regards

m

On Tue, Oct 27, 2015 at 12:19 PM, maning sambale  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> We are working on improving tags for sidewalk in the US.  Details in
> this issue [0].
> The sidewalk detection algorithm runs OK in most cases but fails in
> some [1].  Mostly the contention was whether a footway separated by a
> grassy area from the road is considered a sidewalk which was already
> discussed in this list [2].
>
> The wiki defines sidewalk as "often separated from the carriageway (or
> roadway) by a kerb (also curb)". [3]
>
> As in most cases in OSM, we would like to defer to the local (US)
> community on how they define it.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> [0] https://github.com/mapbox/mapping/issues/125
> [1] https://www.mapbox.com/bites/00186/#
> [2]
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/2014-April/012984.html
> [3] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Sidewalks
>
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> --
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> https://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> http://twitter.com/maningsambale
> --
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
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>
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