Re: [Talk-us] National Map Corps Revived - And Using the OSM Stack

[Adam Schreiber]

Ian,

The link appears to be dead.  Was the video taken down?

Cheers,

Adam

On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 10:17 AM, Ian Dees  wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I saw a tweet from @USGS today mentioning that the National Map Corps are
> starting up again. If you don't know what the National Map Corps is, think
> of it like "OpenStreetMap for the US Government". Volunteer mappers
> correcting and adding to the topo maps all over the country. I'm sure there
> are others with much more information, but it was a pretty epic project and
> is the source for lots of the free and public domain data we use to this
> day.
>
> For the last year or two (or three?) Eric Wolf's been working to adapt the
> OpenStreetMap stack to the USGS's needs, and it looks like it that work has
> finally been released. Check out this video for more information:
> http://gallery.usgs.gov/videos/552. Skip to 4:10 or so to see it in action.
>
> Hopefully Eric and others will respond here and tell us more about it!
>
> -Ian
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>

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Re: [Talk-us] National Map Corps Revived - And Using the OSM Stack

[Ian Dees]

Yep. They announced it prematurely. They'll have more information about it
in the near future.

On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Adam Schreiber <
adam.schreiber+...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ian,
>
> The link appears to be dead.  Was the video taken down?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Adam
>
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 10:17 AM, Ian Dees  wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I saw a tweet from @USGS today mentioning that the National Map Corps are
> > starting up again. If you don't know what the National Map Corps is,
> think
> > of it like "OpenStreetMap for the US Government". Volunteer mappers
> > correcting and adding to the topo maps all over the country. I'm sure
> there
> > are others with much more information, but it was a pretty epic project
> and
> > is the source for lots of the free and public domain data we use to this
> > day.
> >
> > For the last year or two (or three?) Eric Wolf's been working to adapt
> the
> > OpenStreetMap stack to the USGS's needs, and it looks like it that work
> has
> > finally been released. Check out this video for more information:
> > http://gallery.usgs.gov/videos/552. Skip to 4:10 or so to see it in
> action.
> >
> > Hopefully Eric and others will respond here and tell us more about it!
> >
> > -Ian
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-us mailing list
> > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
> >
>
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Re: [Talk-us] National Map Corps Revived - And Using the OSM Stack

[Brad Neuhauser]

I watched it after Ian sent the link.  According to the video, it uses
Potlatch 2 to gather a very limited set of POIs in the initial pilot area
of Colorado.  I was kind of curious if there was going to be any
interaction with OSM other than using the tool stack.

Brad

On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 4:50 PM, Ian Dees  wrote:

> Yep. They announced it prematurely. They'll have more information about it
> in the near future.
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Adam Schreiber <
> adam.schreiber+...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ian,
>>
>> The link appears to be dead.  Was the video taken down?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Adam
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 10:17 AM, Ian Dees  wrote:
>> > Hi everyone,
>> >
>> > I saw a tweet from @USGS today mentioning that the National Map Corps
>> are
>> > starting up again. If you don't know what the National Map Corps is,
>> think
>> > of it like "OpenStreetMap for the US Government". Volunteer mappers
>> > correcting and adding to the topo maps all over the country. I'm sure
>> there
>> > are others with much more information, but it was a pretty epic project
>> and
>> > is the source for lots of the free and public domain data we use to this
>> > day.
>> >
>> > For the last year or two (or three?) Eric Wolf's been working to adapt
>> the
>> > OpenStreetMap stack to the USGS's needs, and it looks like it that work
>> has
>> > finally been released. Check out this video for more information:
>> > http://gallery.usgs.gov/videos/552. Skip to 4:10 or so to see it in
>> action.
>> >
>> > Hopefully Eric and others will respond here and tell us more about it!
>> >
>> > -Ian
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Talk-us mailing list
>> > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>> >
>>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] National Map Corps Revived - And Using the OSM Stack

[Martijn van Exel]

Hi,

On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 5:14 PM, Brad Neuhauser
 wrote:
> I watched it after Ian sent the link.  According to the video, it uses
> Potlatch 2 to gather a very limited set of POIs in the initial pilot area of
> Colorado.  I was kind of curious if there was going to be any interaction
> with OSM other than using the tool stack.
>

Any interaction in terms of data exchange would necessarily have to be
a one-way street; USGS data is PD and our data is ODbL (almost). So
data can travel to us but not back to the USGS.
That said, USGS has reached out to us to make that one-way data flow
possible. Whatever the NMC does to improve GNIS points (I believe that
is what the pilot is) could flow towards OSM, if and only if the
corresponding OSM data has not been modified from its original import.
If it has, you could still manually merge or hot-or-not the individual
data points.

Martijn

-- 
martijn van exel
http://oegeo.wordpress.com

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Re: [Talk-us] National Map Corps Revived - And Using the OSM Stack

[Charlotte Wolter]

Ian,

I read through their Web site.
They used Potlatch 1 for two pilot projects in 
"crowdsourcing" (yes, they used the word) topographic data. 
Apparently they were pleased enough with the results to plan to move 
ahead, at some point, with crowdsourced topographic mapping. I hope 
they have taken a look at Potlatch 2.
They also mentioned OSM several times on a couple of Web 
pages, which was nice publicity.


Charlotte


At 02:50 PM 7/22/2012, you wrote:
Yep. They announced it prematurely. They'll have more information 
about it in the near future.


On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Adam Schreiber 
<adam.schreiber+...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ian,

The link appears to be dead.  Was the video taken down?

Cheers,

Adam

On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 10:17 AM, Ian Dees 
<ian.d...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I saw a tweet from @USGS today mentioning that the National Map Corps are
> starting up again. If you don't know what the National Map Corps is, think
> of it like "OpenStreetMap for the US Government". Volunteer mappers
> correcting and adding to the topo maps all over the country. I'm sure there
> are others with much more information, but it was a pretty epic project and
> is the source for lots of the free and public domain data we use to this
> day.
>
> For the last year or two (or three?) Eric Wolf's been working to adapt the
> OpenStreetMap stack to the USGS's needs, and it looks like it that work has
> finally been released. Check out this video for more information:
> 
http://gallery.usgs.gov/videos/552. 
Skip to 4:10 or so to see it in action.

>
> Hopefully Eric and others will respond here and tell us more about it!
>
> -Ian
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>


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Charlotte Wolter
927 18th Street Suite A
Santa Monica, California
90403
+1-310-597-4040
techl...@techlady.com
Skype: thetechlady

The Four Internet Freedoms
Freedom to visit any site on the Internet
Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal
Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network
Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that 
would affect the first three freedoms.
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Re: [Talk-us] National Map Corps Revived - And Using the OSM Stack

[Eric Wolf]

I'm probably not supposed to email you all but I hate seeing unanswered
questions.

We have official publications about the project:

FactSheet: http://pubs.er.usgs.gov/publication/fs20113103
Phase 1: http://pubs.er.usgs.gov/publication/ofr2036

An OFR on Phase 2 is due out any day now. Watch the RSS feed here:
http://pubs.er.usgs.gov/#home

Phase 1 was purely an evaluation of the OSM software. Phase 2 was a test to
see if the data could be integrated into The National Map. Phase 3 is a
test to see what it would be like in production.

We switched to Potlatch2 at the end of Phase 1. Our version of P2 is
modified (slightly) to only allow the very small number of structure types
(nodes) that we need for The National Map to be added. In fact, we went
through the entire system and disabled features that didn't fit our needs.
The result is a much simpler user experience.

We are hoping to submit the data to OSM itself but we are very sensitive to
the issues of bulk uploads from "authoritative" data sources. We don't want
to do this until we have a good way to manage the process. One thought was
to only update the same features that are in OSM but haven't been changed.
The data we are looking at was part of the GNIS database which was bulk
uploaded into OSM in 2009. Most of that data is untouched (except for bots)
in OSM and still has the USGS feature ID (gnis:feature_id) saved in a tag.
In theory, we could automatically update only the data from our system with
matching gnis:feature_id tags in OSM that haven't been touched by humans.
The rest of the data would have to managed manually.

We do create a nightly planet file:
http://navigator.er.usgs.gov/planet/planet.osm

Feel free to explore the data. You can also explore the system without
creating an account using "guest" as the user ID and "usgsguest" as the
password. Changes from that account are reverted nightly.

-Eric

-=--=---===---=--=-=--=---==---=--=-=-
Eric B. Wolf   720-334-7734





On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Charlotte Wolter wrote:

>  Ian,
>
> ****I read through their Web site.
> ****They used Potlatch 1 for two pilot projects in
> "crowdsourcing" (yes, they used the word) topographic data. Apparently they
> were pleased enough with the results to plan to move ahead, at some point,
> with crowdsourced topographic mapping. I hope they have taken a look at
> Potlatch 2.
> ****They also mentioned OSM several times on a couple of Web
> pages, which was nice publicity.
>
> Charlotte
>
>
>
> At 02:50 PM 7/22/2012, you wrote:
>
> Yep. They announced it prematurely. They'll have more information about it
> in the near future.
>
> On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Adam Schreiber 
> wrote:
>  Ian,
>
> The link appears to be dead.  Was the video taken down?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Adam
>
> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 10:17 AM, Ian Dees  wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > I saw a tweet from @USGS today mentioning that the National Map Corps are
> > starting up again. If you don't know what the National Map Corps is,
> think
> > of it like "OpenStreetMap for the US Government". Volunteer mappers
> > correcting and adding to the topo maps all over the country. I'm sure
> there
> > are others with much more information, but it was a pretty epic project
> and
> > is the source for lots of the free and public domain data we use to this
> > day.
> >
> > For the last year or two (or three?) Eric Wolf's been working to adapt
> the
> > OpenStreetMap stack to the USGS's needs, and it looks like it that work
> has
> > finally been released. Check out this video for more information:
> > http://gallery.usgs.gov/videos/552. Skip to 4:10 or so to see it in
> action.
> >
> > Hopefully Eric and others will respond here and tell us more about it!
> >
> > -Ian
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-us mailing list
> > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
> >
>
>
> ___
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>  http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
> **
>
> ** Charlotte Wolter
> 927 18th Street Suite A
> Santa Monica, California
> 90403
> +1-310-597-4040
> techl...@techlady.com
> Skype: thetechlady
>
> *The Four Internet Freedoms*
> Freedom to visit any site on the Internet
> Freedom to access any content or service that is not illegal
> Freedom to attach any device that does not interfere with the network
> Freedom to know all the terms of a service, particularly any that would
> affect the first three freedoms.
>
> ___
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> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] National Map Corps Revived - And Using the OSM Stack

[Mike Thompson]

Eric,

Thanks for the info.

I might be mistaken, but I recall looking at the public "crowd
sourcing" pilot.  I noticed that a lot of edits submitted by the
public were sourced from copyright or license restricted sources.
There were comments from contributors like "per Google" or "per
yellowpages.com."  I wonder what the USGS's stance on these sources
is?

Mike

On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 8:08 AM, Eric Wolf  wrote:
> I'm probably not supposed to email you all but I hate seeing unanswered
> questions.
>
> We have official publications about the project:
>
> FactSheet: http://pubs.er.usgs.gov/publication/fs20113103
> Phase 1: http://pubs.er.usgs.gov/publication/ofr2036
>
> An OFR on Phase 2 is due out any day now. Watch the RSS feed here:
> http://pubs.er.usgs.gov/#home
>
> Phase 1 was purely an evaluation of the OSM software. Phase 2 was a test to
> see if the data could be integrated into The National Map. Phase 3 is a test
> to see what it would be like in production.
>
> We switched to Potlatch2 at the end of Phase 1. Our version of P2 is
> modified (slightly) to only allow the very small number of structure types
> (nodes) that we need for The National Map to be added. In fact, we went
> through the entire system and disabled features that didn't fit our needs.
> The result is a much simpler user experience.
>
> We are hoping to submit the data to OSM itself but we are very sensitive to
> the issues of bulk uploads from "authoritative" data sources. We don't want
> to do this until we have a good way to manage the process. One thought was
> to only update the same features that are in OSM but haven't been changed.
> The data we are looking at was part of the GNIS database which was bulk
> uploaded into OSM in 2009. Most of that data is untouched (except for bots)
> in OSM and still has the USGS feature ID (gnis:feature_id) saved in a tag.
> In theory, we could automatically update only the data from our system with
> matching gnis:feature_id tags in OSM that haven't been touched by humans.
> The rest of the data would have to managed manually.
>
> We do create a nightly planet file:
> http://navigator.er.usgs.gov/planet/planet.osm
>
> Feel free to explore the data. You can also explore the system without
> creating an account using "guest" as the user ID and "usgsguest" as the
> password. Changes from that account are reverted nightly.
>
> -Eric
>
> -=--=---===---=--=-=--=---==---=--=-=-
> Eric B. Wolf   720-334-7734
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Charlotte Wolter 
> wrote:
>>
>> Ian,
>>
>> I read through their Web site.
>> They used Potlatch 1 for two pilot projects in "crowdsourcing"
>> (yes, they used the word) topographic data. Apparently they were pleased
>> enough with the results to plan to move ahead, at some point, with
>> crowdsourced topographic mapping. I hope they have taken a look at Potlatch
>> 2.
>> They also mentioned OSM several times on a couple of Web pages,
>> which was nice publicity.
>>
>> Charlotte
>>
>>
>>
>> At 02:50 PM 7/22/2012, you wrote:
>>
>> Yep. They announced it prematurely. They'll have more information about it
>> in the near future.
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 4:25 PM, Adam Schreiber <
>> adam.schreiber+...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ian,
>>
>> The link appears to be dead.  Was the video taken down?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Adam
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 10:17 AM, Ian Dees  wrote:
>> > Hi everyone,
>> >
>> > I saw a tweet from @USGS today mentioning that the National Map Corps
>> > are
>> > starting up again. If you don't know what the National Map Corps is,
>> > think
>> > of it like "OpenStreetMap for the US Government". Volunteer mappers
>> > correcting and adding to the topo maps all over the country. I'm sure
>> > there
>> > are others with much more information, but it was a pretty epic project
>> > and
>> > is the source for lots of the free and public domain data we use to this
>> > day.
>> >
>> > For the last year or two (or three?) Eric Wolf's been working to adapt
>> > the
>> > OpenStreetMap stack to the USGS's needs, and it looks like it that work
>> > has
>> > finally been released. Check out this video for more information:
>> > http://gallery.usgs.gov/videos/552. Skip to 4:10 or so to see it in
>> > action.
>> >
>> > Hopefully Eric and others will respond here and tell us more about it!
>> >
>> > -Ian
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Talk-us mailing list
>> > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>> >
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Talk-us mailing list
>> Talk-us@openstreetmap.org
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>>
>> Charlotte Wolter
>> 927 18th Street Suite A
>> Santa Monica, California
>> 90403
>> +1-310-597-4040
>> techl...@techlady.com
>> Skype: thetechlady
>>
>> The Four Internet Freedoms
>> Freedom to visit any site on the Internet
>> Freedom to access any 

Re: [Talk-us] National Map Corps Revived - And Using the OSM Stack

[Eric Wolf]

Mike et al,

Here is my personal, educated view on the way volunteers working on the
USGS prototype VGI system employed information from Google:

The guidelines the USGS provides to contributors specifically states that
Google is not an authoritative source, which is more of an issue than
copyright. The guidelines do suggest that Google and YellowPages are
reasonable sources to corroborative the factual state information with
authoritative sources. Further, the kinds of structures were are mapping
are things like hospitals and police stations. IN MY PERSONAL OPINION, it
would be astoundingly unethical for any data provider to intentionally give
false information about these things for the purpose of establishing
copyright.

Interestingly, in Phase 2 there were some structures that got changed back
to the initial state from GNIS. After a little digging, it was noted that
the first volunteer "fixed" incorrect information from the GNIS import but
then the second volunteer (during our volunteer quality control process)
changed it back, citing Google as the source. Unfortunately, Google was
reporting data they imported from GNIS but didn't cite their source! Even
within the very controlled setting of Phase 2, volunteers contributing to
the project acted in ways the USGS had not anticipated.

Neither the precise legal boundaries nor the best practices for utilizing
potentially copyrighted information for the documentation or verification
of fact are understood. One of the (many) reasons the project is still
considered a "prototype" is that the USGS is seeking to better understand
how these things interact, especially in the context of creating an
authoritative database.

Again, this is my personal view on the issue.

-Eric

-=--=---===---=--=-=--=---==---=--=-=-
Eric B. Wolf   720-334-7734





On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 9:26 AM, Mike Thompson  wrote:

> Eric,
>
> Thanks for the info.
>
> I might be mistaken, but I recall looking at the public "crowd
> sourcing" pilot.  I noticed that a lot of edits submitted by the
> public were sourced from copyright or license restricted sources.
> There were comments from contributors like "per Google" or "per
> yellowpages.com."  I wonder what the USGS's stance on these sources
> is?
>
> Mike
>
> On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 8:08 AM, Eric Wolf  wrote:
> > I'm probably not supposed to email you all but I hate seeing unanswered
> > questions.
> >
> > We have official publications about the project:
> >
> > FactSheet: http://pubs.er.usgs.gov/publication/fs20113103
> > Phase 1: http://pubs.er.usgs.gov/publication/ofr2036
> >
> > An OFR on Phase 2 is due out any day now. Watch the RSS feed here:
> > http://pubs.er.usgs.gov/#home
> >
> > Phase 1 was purely an evaluation of the OSM software. Phase 2 was a test
> to
> > see if the data could be integrated into The National Map. Phase 3 is a
> test
> > to see what it would be like in production.
> >
> > We switched to Potlatch2 at the end of Phase 1. Our version of P2 is
> > modified (slightly) to only allow the very small number of structure
> types
> > (nodes) that we need for The National Map to be added. In fact, we went
> > through the entire system and disabled features that didn't fit our
> needs.
> > The result is a much simpler user experience.
> >
> > We are hoping to submit the data to OSM itself but we are very sensitive
> to
> > the issues of bulk uploads from "authoritative" data sources. We don't
> want
> > to do this until we have a good way to manage the process. One thought
> was
> > to only update the same features that are in OSM but haven't been
> changed.
> > The data we are looking at was part of the GNIS database which was bulk
> > uploaded into OSM in 2009. Most of that data is untouched (except for
> bots)
> > in OSM and still has the USGS feature ID (gnis:feature_id) saved in a
> tag.
> > In theory, we could automatically update only the data from our system
> with
> > matching gnis:feature_id tags in OSM that haven't been touched by humans.
> > The rest of the data would have to managed manually.
> >
> > We do create a nightly planet file:
> > http://navigator.er.usgs.gov/planet/planet.osm
> >
> > Feel free to explore the data. You can also explore the system without
> > creating an account using "guest" as the user ID and "usgsguest" as the
> > password. Changes from that account are reverted nightly.
> >
> > -Eric
> >
> > -=--=---===---=--=-=--=---==---=--=-=-
> > Eric B. Wolf   720-334-7734
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 6:12 PM, Charlotte Wolter  >
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Ian,
> >>
> >> I read through their Web site.
> >> They used Potlatch 1 for two pilot projects in "crowdsourcing"
> >> (yes, they used the word) topographic data. Apparently they were pleased
> >> enough with the results to plan to move ahead, at some point, with
> >> crowdsourced topographic mapping. I hope they have taken a look at

Re: [Talk-us] National Map Corps Revived - And Using the OSM Stack

[Mike N]

On 7/23/2012 1:58 PM, Eric Wolf wrote:

Interestingly, in Phase 2 there were some structures that got changed
back to the initial state from GNIS. After a little digging, it was
noted that the first volunteer "fixed" incorrect information from the
GNIS import but then the second volunteer (during our volunteer quality
control process) changed it back, citing Google as the source.
Unfortunately, Google was reporting data they imported from GNIS but
didn't cite their source! Even within the very controlled setting of
Phase 2, volunteers contributing to the project acted in ways the USGS
had not anticipated.


  Fascinating!   I have noticed this when trying to research something 
that has moved - the original source of many Google hits is obviously 
the original GNIS data point.   I have moved many churches and schools 
who outgrew their original location and rebuilt halfway across town.



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Re: [Talk-us] National Map Corps Revived - And Using the OSM Stack

[Greg Matthews]

>From the USGS News Room - The National Map Corps has been announced. See link
below. 

"Crowdsourcing": Looking at New Ways to Map Structures in Colorado
The U.S. Geological Survey is examining the restoration of its popular
volunteer mapping program, The National Map Corps

http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=3366&from=rss_home#.UDJHZ6lmTCW

Contact 
Greg Matthews   
Phone: 303-202-4446 



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