Re: [Talk-us] Uploading all Post Office Drop Box locations in the US
I would say that at least 1/3 of the post office drop boxes nationwide have been removed or pulled out of service since this data has been released, making an import of the data both inaccurate (due to geocoding) and old. On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Kirk Ireson palmerstat...@gmail.comwrote: I was adding a couple local USPS Post Office drop box locations using Potlatch when I wondered if there was a public list of locations I could upload. I did find that there was a release of 2005 locations that was released under the Freedom of Information Act. There are 20 Excel files ranging from 14,000 to 65,000 lines in length each and it looks like they do have all the locations. I thought it would be a good project for me to extract/clean up the data and geocode it for upload (only addresses are given in the files) and so would like to first seek feedback from the community before proceeding especially with regards to licensing, tagging and geocoding. LICENSING: The data comes from here: http://www.prc.gov/docs/53/53396/DFC-LR-2-R200-6.exe The best information in regards to its release I can find is from here: http://66.208.7.72/(S(tgqmwqywriczne55l1bjqtnu))/Docs/53/53359/Testimony_Errata.pdf Which is erratum of a Postal Rate Commission Docket, which states In 2002, I submitted a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request to the Postal Service for an electronic copy of pertinent information from the CBMS database. The Postal Service declared that releasing information on locations and posted collection times of collection boxes would pose a security risk. I filed a lawsuit, and in March 2005, a federal judge ruled in my favor and ordered the Postal Service to disclose the data. In September 2005, the Postal Service provided (and then is cut off) See also here: http://www.postalnewsblog.com/2007/10/16/usps-loses-appeal-of-foia-case/ -Is this compatible licensing? -What kind of attribution is required? TAGGING: Included in the released files is the pickup times of the boxes. -Should this info be included as a tag? How? -Also, what kind of tag should I use to denote this is a bulk upload of locations, or should I just create a dedicated user account for the import? -How do I prevent duplicating existing positions already uploaded by users? GEOCODING: -Can anyone recommend a geocoding service (that is, translating an address to latitude/longitude) preferably free or very cheap. Only one I've found is http://geocoder.us (since I can't use Yahoo's or Google's without using them on one of their maps), but I can only send one request per 15 seconds and so it will take weeks (since I don't want to pay hundreds of dollars). -Additionally, should I also cross post these questions to the 'imports' mailing list? Cheers and thanks for any and all help, ~Kirk Ireson -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Uploading-all-Post-Office-Drop-Box-locations-in-the-US-tp5164668p5164668.html Sent from the USA mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Uploading all Post Office Drop Box locations in the US
These sites might also be interesting: http://www.payphone-project.com/mailboxes/ and http://www.mailboxmap.com/ On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 1:48 PM, Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com wrote: I would say that at least 1/3 of the post office drop boxes nationwide have been removed or pulled out of service since this data has been released, making an import of the data both inaccurate (due to geocoding) and old. On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Kirk Ireson palmerstat...@gmail.comwrote: I was adding a couple local USPS Post Office drop box locations using Potlatch when I wondered if there was a public list of locations I could upload. I did find that there was a release of 2005 locations that was released under the Freedom of Information Act. There are 20 Excel files ranging from 14,000 to 65,000 lines in length each and it looks like they do have all the locations. I thought it would be a good project for me to extract/clean up the data and geocode it for upload (only addresses are given in the files) and so would like to first seek feedback from the community before proceeding especially with regards to licensing, tagging and geocoding. LICENSING: The data comes from here: http://www.prc.gov/docs/53/53396/DFC-LR-2-R200-6.exe The best information in regards to its release I can find is from here: http://66.208.7.72/(S(tgqmwqywriczne55l1bjqtnu))/Docs/53/53359/Testimony_Errata.pdf Which is erratum of a Postal Rate Commission Docket, which states In 2002, I submitted a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request to the Postal Service for an electronic copy of pertinent information from the CBMS database. The Postal Service declared that releasing information on locations and posted collection times of collection boxes would pose a security risk. I filed a lawsuit, and in March 2005, a federal judge ruled in my favor and ordered the Postal Service to disclose the data. In September 2005, the Postal Service provided (and then is cut off) See also here: http://www.postalnewsblog.com/2007/10/16/usps-loses-appeal-of-foia-case/ -Is this compatible licensing? -What kind of attribution is required? TAGGING: Included in the released files is the pickup times of the boxes. -Should this info be included as a tag? How? -Also, what kind of tag should I use to denote this is a bulk upload of locations, or should I just create a dedicated user account for the import? -How do I prevent duplicating existing positions already uploaded by users? GEOCODING: -Can anyone recommend a geocoding service (that is, translating an address to latitude/longitude) preferably free or very cheap. Only one I've found is http://geocoder.us (since I can't use Yahoo's or Google's without using them on one of their maps), but I can only send one request per 15 seconds and so it will take weeks (since I don't want to pay hundreds of dollars). -Additionally, should I also cross post these questions to the 'imports' mailing list? Cheers and thanks for any and all help, ~Kirk Ireson -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Uploading-all-Post-Office-Drop-Box-locations-in-the-US-tp5164668p5164668.html Sent from the USA mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Uploading all Post Office Drop Box locations in the US
Ian, That payphone-project website is actually where I got the initial information about the downloadable files. Cheers, ~Kirk -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Uploading-all-Post-Office-Drop-Box-locations-in-the-US-tp5164668p5164762.html Sent from the USA mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Uploading all Post Office Drop Box locations in the US
On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 2:37 PM, Kirk Ireson palmerstat...@gmail.com wrote: I was adding a couple local USPS Post Office drop box locations using Potlatch when I wondered if there was a public list of locations I could upload. I did find that there was a release of 2005 locations that was released under the Freedom of Information Act. Good thinking. LICENSING: The data comes from here: http://www.prc.gov/docs/53/53396/DFC-LR-2-R200-6.exe The best information in regards to its release I can find is from here: http://66.208.7.72/(S(tgqmwqywriczne55l1bjqtnu))/Docs/53/53359/Testimony_Errata.pdf So, I take a fairly hard-line approach to this kind of thing, but my feeling is that without something explicit we can get which explains the terms of the license, we can't use it yet. USPS is neither entirely a commercial entity, nor entirely federal. It's an odd beast and I'm worried about not knowing the terms of distribution. That said, I think the solution is to get a definitive answer about that question. -Is this compatible licensing? I couldn't find any actual license. Under normal circumstances a federal agency data with a FOI request would be non-copyrightable, but again, USPS is weird. -What kind of attribution is required? If it's public data, requirements of attribution would be on our end, rather than theirs. There are some other issues to consider though, such as accuracy. Data from 2005, as far as post office drop box locations go isn't going to be that great. USPS has been scaling down their operation. That means removing a lot of data, which is harder than adding it. -How do I prevent duplicating existing positions already uploaded by users? This is a hard one, and a big reason why plopping data into OSM isn't a good idea by itself. There needs to be a process. -Additionally, should I also cross post these questions to the 'imports' mailing list? Cheers and thanks for any and all help, Kirk, Let me make a suggestion to you. We in the US are both blessed and cursed with all the available public data and one of the goals of OSM US is going to be getting this data imported in OSM in a sane way. I think the general OSM community needs to be involved, but I believe OSM US should have a system in place to streamline the import process. I'd really like it if you'd work with us to help design this process. And this really extends to anyone! - Serge ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Uploading all Post Office Drop Box locations in the US
On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Katie Filbert filbe...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 2:37 PM, Kirk Ireson palmerstat...@gmail.comwrote: -Is this compatible licensing? -What kind of attribution is required? The USPS is not a government agency, and it puts full copyrights on its data. Thus it's not public domain and we can't use it. This page explains what's in the public domain and what's not (e.g. USPS works): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_status_of_work_by_the_U.S._government#Exemptions -Katie -Katie -- Katie Filbert @filbertkm -- Katie Filbert filbe...@gmail.com @filbertkm ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Uploading all Post Office Drop Box locations in the US
geocoder.us does use TIGER lines [1], which should also clarify the limits of the service (as they do in their FAQ) [1] http://geocoder.us/help/faq.shtml That also means that it is located within an accuracy of only the nearest block. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Uploading all Post Office Drop Box locations in the US
On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 2:37 PM, Kirk Ireson palmerstat...@gmail.com wrote: released under the Freedom of Information Act. There are 20 Excel files ranging from 14,000 to 65,000 lines in length each and it looks like they do have all the locations. I thought it would be a good project for me to extract/clean up the data and geocode it for upload (only addresses are given in the files) and so would like to first seek feedback from the community before proceeding especially with regards to licensing, tagging and geocoding. GEOCODING: -Can anyone recommend a geocoding service (that is, translating an address to latitude/longitude) preferably free or very cheap. Only one I've found is http://geocoder.us (since I can't use Yahoo's or Google's without using them on one of their maps), but I can only send one request per 15 seconds and so it will take weeks (since I don't want to pay hundreds of dollars). Am I the only one who sees a problem with this? I'm pretty sure all of these geocoding services, free or otherwise, are only free beer and not compatible with OSM's open license, unless the geocoding data itself is open-license or public domain (such as TIGER). Wouldn't use of a commercial geocoding service to import POIs taint the OSM data? Maybe not if the original address were not present in the tagging but still... -- David Smith a.k.a. Vid the Kid a.k.a. Bír'd'in Does this font make me look fat? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Uploading all Post Office Drop Box locations in the US
As for the software used with http://geocoder.us, I found this was the license for the PERL module: COPYRIGHT AND LICENSE Copyright (C) 2004 by Schuyler Erle and Jo Walsh This library is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the same terms as Perl itself, either Perl version 5.8.3 or, at your option, any later version of Perl 5 you may have available. Not sure if this helps, but it might be able to extend the conversation. ** Joshua Finnie Central Connecticut State University Masters of Science in Geography 24 Park Pl Apt B8H Hartford, CT 06106 (860) 716-5996 ** On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 4:04 PM, David ``Smith'' vidthe...@gmail.comwrote: On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 2:37 PM, Kirk Ireson palmerstat...@gmail.com wrote: released under the Freedom of Information Act. There are 20 Excel files ranging from 14,000 to 65,000 lines in length each and it looks like they do have all the locations. I thought it would be a good project for me to extract/clean up the data and geocode it for upload (only addresses are given in the files) and so would like to first seek feedback from the community before proceeding especially with regards to licensing, tagging and geocoding. GEOCODING: -Can anyone recommend a geocoding service (that is, translating an address to latitude/longitude) preferably free or very cheap. Only one I've found is http://geocoder.us (since I can't use Yahoo's or Google's without using them on one of their maps), but I can only send one request per 15 seconds and so it will take weeks (since I don't want to pay hundreds of dollars). Am I the only one who sees a problem with this? I'm pretty sure all of these geocoding services, free or otherwise, are only free beer and not compatible with OSM's open license, unless the geocoding data itself is open-license or public domain (such as TIGER). Wouldn't use of a commercial geocoding service to import POIs taint the OSM data? Maybe not if the original address were not present in the tagging but still... -- David Smith a.k.a. Vid the Kid a.k.a. Bír'd'in Does this font make me look fat? ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
Re: [Talk-us] Uploading all Post Office Drop Box locations in the US
http://www.usps.com/foia/ Under the owned/leased properties data: *The information contained in the report is provided by the United States Postal Service under the Freedom of information Act and should not be redistributed or resold.* Not sure if they can hold people to that or they just want to try to keep people from distributing the information. I don't see anything about the drop boxes though. Guidelines for Copyrighted Materials and the FOIA http://www.justice.gov/oip/foia_updates/Vol_IV_4/page3.htm Perhaps someone can make use of some of that info. On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 7:03 PM, SteveC st...@asklater.com wrote: so just do another FOIA request? On Jun 10, 2010, at 11:48 AM, Ian Dees wrote: I would say that at least 1/3 of the post office drop boxes nationwide have been removed or pulled out of service since this data has been released, making an import of the data both inaccurate (due to geocoding) and old. On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Kirk Ireson palmerstat...@gmail.com wrote: I was adding a couple local USPS Post Office drop box locations using Potlatch when I wondered if there was a public list of locations I could upload. I did find that there was a release of 2005 locations that was released under the Freedom of Information Act. There are 20 Excel files ranging from 14,000 to 65,000 lines in length each and it looks like they do have all the locations. I thought it would be a good project for me to extract/clean up the data and geocode it for upload (only addresses are given in the files) and so would like to first seek feedback from the community before proceeding especially with regards to licensing, tagging and geocoding. LICENSING: The data comes from here: http://www.prc.gov/docs/53/53396/DFC-LR-2-R200-6.exe The best information in regards to its release I can find is from here: http://66.208.7.72/(S(tgqmwqywriczne55l1bjqtnu))/Docs/53/53359/Testimony_Errata.pdfhttp://66.208.7.72/%28S%28tgqmwqywriczne55l1bjqtnu%29%29/Docs/53/53359/Testimony_Errata.pdf Which is erratum of a Postal Rate Commission Docket, which states In 2002, I submitted a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request to the Postal Service for an electronic copy of pertinent information from the CBMS database. The Postal Service declared that releasing information on locations and posted collection times of collection boxes would pose a security risk. I filed a lawsuit, and in March 2005, a federal judge ruled in my favor and ordered the Postal Service to disclose the data. In September 2005, the Postal Service provided (and then is cut off) See also here: http://www.postalnewsblog.com/2007/10/16/usps-loses-appeal-of-foia-case/ -Is this compatible licensing? -What kind of attribution is required? TAGGING: Included in the released files is the pickup times of the boxes. -Should this info be included as a tag? How? -Also, what kind of tag should I use to denote this is a bulk upload of locations, or should I just create a dedicated user account for the import? -How do I prevent duplicating existing positions already uploaded by users? GEOCODING: -Can anyone recommend a geocoding service (that is, translating an address to latitude/longitude) preferably free or very cheap. Only one I've found is http://geocoder.us (since I can't use Yahoo's or Google's without using them on one of their maps), but I can only send one request per 15 seconds and so it will take weeks (since I don't want to pay hundreds of dollars). -Additionally, should I also cross post these questions to the 'imports' mailing list? Cheers and thanks for any and all help, ~Kirk Ireson -- View this message in context: http://gis.638310.n2.nabble.com/Uploading-all-Post-Office-Drop-Box-locations-in-the-US-tp5164668p5164668.html Sent from the USA mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us have fun, Steve Coast / stevecoast.com ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us -- Dale Puch ___ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
