Re: [Tango-L] A true tango
I am not sure who posted Ney Melo Jennifer Bratt originally, but thank you so much, they are great. I especially like their Poema and the lovely americanas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pgbt0oD-MnAfeature=related With all the talk about Copes recently I also had a look at youtube for Maria Nieves and found this interesting set of birthday dances including Javier Rodriguez and Gavito. Its nice to watch people just dancing for fun for a change: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzwrynxHS8Q One gap in the links I have seen so far (but now there are so many links I can not claim to have looked at every one) in my opinion is that I didn't see any great nuevo. I have a particular style of dancing in mind which I saw in BsAs last year at Viruta, Malcolm and I believe you can also see at PracticaX. The guys I saw had a particular look of sinuous power and did a whole lot of really inventive things in the Arce sort of style, but less polished and more raw and unmistakeably their own inventions. Its not Chicho, Naveira et al, those guys are also just too smooth and polished (and to be blunt too old!). Now when I think of nuevo I think of this sort of playfulness and freedom to invent. But I think you need to master the old dance first so it is still a ways off for me :-). I couldn't find any great examples of this, but found an ok example here to give you an idea of what I mean. If anyone has a better example please post. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAi--Zqa99Y Victor Bennetts CAUTION - Disclaimer * This e-mail contains PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION intended solely for the use of the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender by e-mail and delete the original message. Further, you are not to copy, disclose, or distribute this e-mail or its contents to any other person and any such actions are unlawful. This e-mail may contain viruses. Infosys has taken every reasonable precaution to minimize this risk, but is not liable for any damage you may sustain as a result of any virus in this e-mail. You should carry out your own virus checks before opening the e-mail or attachment. Infosys reserves the right to monitor and review the content of all messages sent to or from this e-mail address. Messages sent to or from this e-mail address may be stored on the Infosys e-mail system. ***INFOSYS End of Disclaimer INFOSYS*** ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Last tango in Bs. As.
Ron I believe I've heard some Donato tangos and valses with Lita Morales at milongas in Buenos Aires. Me too, but only when she's accompanied by one or even two guys ;) Here's a rare example of her (almost) solo: Edgardo Donato + Lita Morales Triqui-tri http://tinyurl.com/2teqrh If anyone knows to buy a full-quality copy of this, please tell! I don't remember hearing tangos by Canaro with Nelly Omar Nor I. Here in Europe too they're rarely played. I think the problem with them is not so much the girl's voice, but the weak dance feel. There's no shortage of valses that are much stronger for dancing. -- Chris ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Last tango in Bs. As. - las damas del tango
Edgardo Donato + Lita Morales Triqui-tri http://tinyurl.com/2teqrh If anyone knows to buy a full-quality copy of this, please tell! I think it's to be found on: Las Damas del Tango 1909-1946 My question to the list: why are las damas del tango so neglected by the DJ's in the milongas? What is the reason for this? Is it to protect the male leaders from being too confused to lead when hearing the enchantingly tender voice of a lady singer? Anna _ Der WEB.DE SmartSurfer hilft bis zu 70% Ihrer Onlinekosten zu sparen! http://smartsurfer.web.de/?mc=100071distributionid=0066 ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Learning Tango
well said Astrid - I have found it to be an almost universal rule.a frequent corollary - these guys never waste time teaching any one about walking - but they love leg wraps and ganchos! Have you joined the Buffalo Argentine Tango Society Yahoo! group yet? It's easy, and the best way to make sure you know what we're doing and what's going on with the Argentine tango in and around Buffalo..go to www.yahoo.com select Groups search for Buffalo Argentine Tango Society follow the directions to join BATS_tango. Thanks! -Original Message- From: Astrid [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; tango-l@mit.edu Sent: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 4:20 am Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Learning Tango What Chris actually appears to advocate is for students to learn only by dancing in the milongas. IMO, and I've seen the results, this is a recipe for disaster. OK, pretty young girls will have no problem finding experienced leaders to teach them. But, what about the other ladies and, more especially, what about the men? Keith, you forgot to say that those men who are so eager to teach the newcomers are more often than not those who are so mediocre themselves that the better dancers won't dance with them much or are at least not ready to give them the ego-boost they are hoping for. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Learning Tango
Mario, You've obviously read different messages than me. I look forward to hearing from Chris on what type of group class would be useful and which teachers teach that type of class. Keith, HK On Mon Jan 21 23:50 , Mario sent: Keith, I don't want to speak for Chris but I think that he has outlined what an effective class could look like ie: which subjects would be covered and that the teachers would mostly dance with their students. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Learning Tango
--- Keith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mario, You've obviously read different messages than me. I look forward to hearing from Chris on what type of group class would be useful and which teachers teach that type of class. Let's applaud Chris ahead of time for not taking the bait. Publically naming teachers that don't teach appropriately? Not! Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Learning Tango
TFH, You mis-read my post. I asked Chris to tell us which teachers teach appropriately, in his opinion - not those who don't. I actually agree with what you say. I don't think we should publicly name teachers who, in our opinion, don't teach appropriately. It's too subjective and a false report can harm a good teacher. But Chris has already named Gustavo Naveira as a teacher who doesn't teach appropriately so Chris obviously has no problem in naming names. Keith, HK On Tue Jan 22 2:01 , Tango For Her sent: I look forward to hearing from Chris on what type of group class would be useful and which teachers teach that type of class. Let's applaud Chris ahead of time for not taking the bait. Publically naming teachers that don't teach appropriately? Not! ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Learning Tango
Well, that doesn't take us down a very fruitful path, either! I can name a dozen teachers that I have had that I think are top-notch and I would have my reasons. The next person can name his or her top 10 and the reasons, etc, etc, etc. If we give our reasons, which we have, then great. If we name teachers, all that does is open the door for publically (publicly?) chastising teachers. It doesn't seem that there is any need for that! Instead, let's go down this path: I like teachers who teach about balance, tortion, positioning, musicality, and so on. --- Keith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TFH, You mis-read my post. I asked Chris to tell us which teachers teach appropriately, in his opinion - not those who don't. I actually agree with what you say. I don't think we should publicly name teachers who, in our opinion, don't teach appropriately. It's too subjective and a false report can harm a good teacher. But Chris has already named Gustavo Naveira as a teacher who doesn't teach appropriately so Chris obviously has no problem in naming names. Keith, HK On Tue Jan 22 2:01 , Tango For Her sent: I look forward to hearing from Chris on what type of group class would be useful and which teachers teach that type of class. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Tango is a dance of collections or pivots
I say that tango is a dance of collections or pivots rather than a walking dance. I say this to change to focus of the dance to where the real tango takes place. I use the term pivot to indicate the point in a step where the feet are collected. At the pivot, you can lead your follow to: - do a side step - do a back step - do a front step - pivot (swivel) From the pivot, there are all kinds of moves, such as boleos and volcadas, that come from leading the beginning of a step. So, lets break down a step to see how it is really just a part of the pivot. I think of a step as five parts, the fourth and fifth parts mirroring the first and second parts. To list the five parts of a step, lets look at the process of starting on your left foot, taking a side step and ending on your right foot: 1. Stand on your left foot with your feet collected. 2. Slightly bend your left knee and extend your right foot to the side with a straight knee. Keep your body aligned over your left foot. 3. Transfer your weight to the point where your body is positioned between your feet. This point is no mans land, the point where you never want to leave your follower. 4. Transfer your weight over your right foot leaving your left foot in its original place. Your right knee will, now, be slightly bent and your left knee will be straight. 5. Collect left foot to your right foot. Remain standing on your right foot. Notice that #3 is the mid-point. Now, lets rewrite this sequence to let the pivot be the mid-point: 1. Stand on your right foot with your right knee bent and your left foot out to the left with your left knee straight. 2. Move your left foot to a collection with your right, remaining on your right foot. You are now in the pivot 1. Stand on your right foot with your right foot with your feet together. 2. Bend your right knee slightly and move your left foot out to the left, straightening your left knee. Yes, we have not talked about step #3. But, that is no-mans land, anyway. My point in describing tango movements in this way is to shift the focus of the dance from steps to pivots. It is coming in and out of the pivot, and being in the pivot, where most of tango takes place. If you think in these terms, then, your focus will shift from varying the feel and technique of moving in and out of your pivots, thus, honing your technique regarding softness and balance. I prefer to think in terms of softness and balance rather than steps. Also, in centering my thinking around this method, it is a natural progression to think of tortion, mirroring or matching your partner, circular and linear boleos, and fake steps, which I like to call teasing my partner. I also like to think of these fake steps and varying amounts of tortion as my way to hone my communication with my partner because this is where we will both be spending a lot of time, as leaders, doing the unexpected. As our follower responds and we respond to her response, our ability to communicate increases and our dancing gets softer. All of that and we werent even thinking of steps! You gotta love tango! Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango is a dance of collections or pivots - correction
In one of the paragraphs near the end: If you think in these terms, then, your focus will shift from varying ... should read: If you think in these terms, then, your focus will shift to varying ... Also, I want to state my opinion that a lot of leaders are stuck in the mentality of moving through the patterns that they are taught. That, alone, is not enough. Shifting one's focus from the patterns to the details in the pivot is, in effect, shifting your focus to your follower. You don't need patterns!!! You already know how to move in tango. Shift your focus to her and you will find that the dance really is about her! :o) Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango is a dance of collections or pivots
On Jan 21, 2008, at 12:56 PM, Tango For Her wrote: I say that tango is a dance of collections or pivots rather than a walking dance. I say this to change to focus of the dance to where the real tango takes place. I disagree that this technical explanation gets at the real tango. Music and feel are more important than technique. You can do a spectacular real tango by dropping one or any number of these technical elements. I use the term pivot to indicate the point in a step where the feet are collected. You are describing a staccato form of pivoting. This is a perfect example of repeating what teachers SAY instead of looking at what they ACTUALLY DO. Normally, when walking or doing ochos, you want to pass-by-close or pass-by-while-pivoting or pass-by-then-pivot or pivot-then-pass- by, not snap to the collect, pivot, snap to the reach. The default movement for walking or ochos should be a flowing, not a staccato. Staccato is an interesting decoration, but flowing is a better foundation for walking and ochos. Women who have been taught the staccato collect-pivot-reach have a hard time doing the flowing pass-by-while-pivoting motion. It disables boleos, which are more commonly accomplished with flowing motions, rather than staccato ones. Even the word itself COLLECT causes a lot of problems by making women (men also) think they need to snap to the middle of each step. The sultry quality of movement is better evoked using the words: PASS BY CLOSE. And if you look at the actual dancers, from nuevo to milonguero, you see that 95% of the time they are passing by close, not collecting. Tom Stermitz http://www.tango.org 2525 Birch St Denver, CO 80207 ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango is a dance of collections or pivots
Tom wrote: snap to the collect, pivot, snap to the reach Tom, Tom, Tom. I can write about elegant flowing movements just as well as you. You missed the point. But, thank you. You wrote a great chapter two! See? We ARE on to the real tango! It is great to teach people about deriving tango from the pivot and moving in and out of it. After showing that these steps can be thought of in terms of pivots, then, such elegant descriptions as yours have a proper home! :o) And, of course music and feeling are important. Sorry. It seems that no one should EVER use the term real tango on this list. It makes people start writing about completely different subjects that should have different headings. My post was about centering tango around the pivot rather than the steps. Duh! Hey, everyone! Dont forget to use musicality and feelings! I think Tom is going to write about it in a completely different post. By the way, I didnt get this from a teacher. This is part of how I think of the dance. This is a beginning to how I think of teaching leaders to get their head out of the patterns and onto the womans body so that the dance can be about her. So, no, I am not one of your slandering examples! Tisk! Tisk! Tisk! So, here we have it. CHAPTER ONE: Deriving your lead from the pivot. Focus on the follower, not the steps. CHAPTER TWO: Moving fluently through the pivot. ADDENDUM TO CHAPTER ONE: At a point in time, during the pivot, you can see the feet collected together. Its just a point in time as I describe 5 positions in a step. DONT GET FREAKED OUT! I guess you could say that a point in time is staccado. Thanks, Tom! Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Learning Tango
Hi keith, I stand corrected, you are right, Chris seems to rule out all topics of teaching as valuable. I, on the other hand, have been often seduced by such topics as; musicality, axis, navigation..none of which ever produced anything valuable. I have, however, found Tango-L posts by Tom Stermitz (teacher) very illuminating...hmmm strange, huh? I think that form, structure, rhythm, improvisation, and navigation are convenient parameters or concepts commonly used or referred to in teaching argentine dance. These concepts are at odd with a student's own concept of the dance. Indeed what goes by these words in classes are all to often just fabrications; artifacts of the instructional model rather than aspects of the dance itself Chris U.K. - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] learning tango
Going back over more threads...I see that I had better butt out of the teaching/learning debates. At least as far as speaking for what Chris is saying. F.W.I.W..However, I am still agreeing with what Chris is saying, the part that I have in front of me and that I understand well.. I'm glad that he is still pushing his viewpoint and is not discouraged by the flack. - Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango is a dance of collections or pivots
Nothing to do with staccato. It is, first, functional - the rotation (if any) is far easier, and second, beautiful as movement. About the real tango - still missing the most important. Original Message - From: Tango For Her [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tom wrote: snap to the collect, pivot, snap to the reach Tom, Tom, Tom. I can write about elegant flowing movements just as well as you. You missed the point. But, thank you. You wrote a great chapter two! See? We ARE on to the real tango! - - - - - - - - So, here we have it. CHAPTER ONE: Deriving your lead from the pivot. Focus on the follower, not the steps. CHAPTER TWO: Moving fluently through the pivot. ADDENDUM TO CHAPTER ONE: At a point in time, during the pivot, you can see the feet collected together. It's just a point in time as I describe 5 positions in a step. DON'T GET FREAKED OUT! I guess you could say that a point in time is staccado. Thanks, Tom! ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
