[Tango-L] followers expressiveness
as most people on this list know, i lead and i follow. i have been told that one of my best qualities as a dancer is my ability to express myself musically. to quote someone... "you dance the music". this is not through only embellishments. now, i have led many followers... and there are followers who just follow which is nice and then there are followers who dance with you who dance melodically... and hear the notes that are emphasized and can translate that to their dance. it feels like they are reading my mind because my expression in the dance becomes so easy. her/his boleo considers not only the time of the movement but the energy, how the beat is used (emphasized at the beg. of the beat...etc)... it feels like painting. i probably am not expressing this correctly and please don't give me grief for that. in fact, if someone can express it better, i would love to hear it. my question... how do you teach this? is there an exercise that can help people understand what i am saying? thanks jackie ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] There is only tango...
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 2:06 PM, David Thorn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >From Meredith's postings, and from having spent time understanding Andres' > background ( andresamarilla.com ), I assume that Meredith has a fairly good > and broad understanding of the entire BsAs tango world. In particular, I > would need significantly more evidence than I have seen to believe that the > under 40 year-old dancers, and especially the under 30 y.o. dancers, do not > dance open / nuevo when a particular Milonga's etiquette permits. And her > posts seem to indicate that at some Milongas, etiquette does so permit. > > The result is that I am very sceptical of such blanket remarks as: > > > "Forms of tango where the embrace is opened, often classified as 'tango > fantasia' or 'tango nuevo' are reserved for the stage or for > exhibitions at some milongas." Please do not quote out of context. Earlier in the same message I stated: "In Buenos Aires, there is 'tango de salon', the tango danced in the milongas, and there is tango for the stage or exhibition. There are also practicas (Villa Malcolm, Practica X), where 'nuevo tango' is danced, that latter considered inappropriate for milongas." Also, consider the statements of Andres Amarilla, tango partner and husband of Meredith Klein: http://www.andresamarilla.com/theguide.htm - One of the best things about dancing tango in Buenos Aires is the variety of "scenes" to choose from. If you go to Club Sunderland on a Saturday night, for instance, you'll see that everyone is dancing in a close embrace and more than 75 couples may be crowded on the floor. Although some younger dancers go to Sunderland, most of the attendees at this milonga are over 50. Both the music and the dancing are firmly grounded in tradition. It would be totally inappropriate to open the embrace here or to lead moves like ganchos or boleos, which require more space. Rather, it's best to relish the opportunity to dance on the same floor with—and in the same style as—these extraordinary dancers, many of whom have been dancing for decades. More and more, however, young dancers in Buenos Aires are interested in dancing in environments where there is space to dance in open embrace and to try new steps. If you walk into Villa Malcolm on a Friday night, for instance, you'll see about 50 couples—mostly in their 20s and 30s—flying around the dance floor. One pair will be trying to make their new "colgada-then volcada-straight into two ganchos" combination work, while another pair may be incorporating lifts taken straight from contact improvisation into their tango. If you talk to these dancers, some will say they are dancing "tango nuevo"; others will say that they are simply dancing tango. Since these kinds of movement and exploration are often called nuevo tango, we have adopted that terminology for this guide. In Buenos Aires, nuevo tango is generally danced in practicas, as opposed to milongas (although there are a couple of milongas aimed at the nuevo tango dancers). The practica scene in Buenos Aires has exploded in the last two years. Whereas in 2004, there were only a couple of practicas each week, now you can choose among two or more different practicas on some nights. - In Buenos Aires, nuevo tango dancers (for the most part) respect the norms for the environment they are dancing in. Nuevo tango and tango de salon are danced at different events. There are over 100 advertised milongas per week in Buenos Aires, and some more that are not advertised. Among events called 'milongas', there are apparently 3 'milongas' (La Viruta, La Catedral & La Marshall) where the traditional rules of social tango are not in effect. Between these practicas and alternative milongas it is possible to go to Buenos Aires and dance nuevo tango every night of the week and come home and say that you did not see any traditional tango. You may even meet a lot of people from your home country at these events. Ron ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] followers expressiveness
On 2008-03-18 08:52-0400, jackie ling wong wrote: > as most people on this list know, i lead and i follow. i have been > told that one of my best qualities as a dancer is my ability to > express myself musically. to quote someone... "you dance the music". > this is not through only embellishments. > > now, i have led many followers... and there are followers who just > follow which is nice and then there are followers who dance with > you who dance melodically... and hear the notes that are > emphasized and can translate that to their dance. it feels like they > are reading my mind because my expression in the dance becomes so > easy. her/his boleo considers not only the time of the movement but > the energy, how the beat is used (emphasized at the beg. of the > beat...etc)... it feels like painting. > > i probably am not expressing this correctly and please don't give me > grief for that. in fact, if someone can express it better, i would > love to hear it. > > my question... how do you teach this? is there an exercise that can > help people understand what i am saying? > > thanks > jackie I think you teach them the same way you would teach somone to smile. My point being I don't think you can teach it, rather you provide a confident platform of skills which gives the student freedom and opportunity; and then by having the right atmosphere you bring it (musicality,playfulness,creativity,improvisation) out in your students. I would put money this; that teachers who's classes are relaxed and friendly bring out more musicality in their students. If you are in a playground you play. 'Mash London,UK ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Finnish tango videos
A brief extract of the Tangomarkkinat dancing competition in 2005: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoDwCWl3mu0 "Satumaa" played on a strange Swedish folk instrument: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FVVfxW4UMI The ladies' duet at the Tangomarkkinat singing competition in 2007: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLzdlD_Hr2E&NR=1 (presumably the person who posted this has permission from MTV, but even so, watch it while you can! Jenna Bageberg, the blonde, was the winner.) John Ward Bristol, UK __ Find the answer to your questions - www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] followers expressiveness
what a great thing to say... a playground. freeing the inner child. :-)i love that visual! i just wish there were playground like exercises for feellng the music. i've done some but i'm not satisfied. what can i say. i want more.homer and cristina do a great job around playfulness in some of their exercises. great feedback everyone! thank you. jackie On Mar 18, 2008, at 12:03 PM, 'Mash wrote: On 2008-03-18 08:52-0400, jackie ling wong wrote: > as most people on this list know, i lead and i follow. i have been > told that one of my best qualities as a dancer is my ability to > express myself musically. to quote someone... "you dance the music". > this is not through only embellishments. > > now, i have led many followers... and there are followers who just > follow which is nice and then there are followers who dance with > you who dance melodically... and hear the notes that are > emphasized and can translate that to their dance. it feels like they > are reading my mind because my expression in the dance becomes so > easy. her/his boleo considers not only the time of the movement but > the energy, how the beat is used (emphasized at the beg. of the > beat...etc)... it feels like painting. > > i probably am not expressing this correctly and please don't give me > grief for that. in fact, if someone can express it better, i would > love to hear it. > > my question... how do you teach this? is there an exercise that can > help people understand what i am saying? > > thanks > jackie I think you teach them the same way you would teach somone to smile. My point being I don't think you can teach it, rather you provide a confident platform of skills which gives the student freedom and opportunity; and then by having the right atmosphere you bring it (musicality,playfulness,creativity,improvisation) out in your students. I would put money this; that teachers who's classes are relaxed and friendly bring out more musicality in their students. If you are in a playground you play. 'Mash London,UK ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] followers expressiveness
I've always felt that the follower's role teaches technique at first, while the leader's role teaches musicality. One disadvantage of the follower's role, is the emphasis on being adaptive and doing nothing more that what is lead. This can make it harder to discover a voice, and the spaces where the follower contributes. Learning to lead can help follower's learn how to "impose musicality" on the dance, find a stronger voice, as well as discover what other follower's feel like. It takes an experienced follower (and leader!) to realize that the follower isn't just an obedient puppet. One of the discoveries when you dance with women in Argentina is that they are oh-so-adaptive, yet oh-so-alive. The "just following" is a myth at the higher level, at least in close-embrace. On Mar 18, 2008, at 6:52 AM, jackie ling wong wrote: > now, i have led many followers... and there are followers who just > follow which is nice and then there are followers who dance with > you who dance melodically... and hear the notes that are > emphasized and can translate that to their dance. it feels like they > are reading my mind because my expression in the dance becomes so > easy. her/his boleo considers not only the time of the movement but > the energy, how the beat is used (emphasized at the beg. of the > beat...etc)... it feels like painting. > ... > my question... how do you teach this? is there an exercise that can > help people understand what i am saying? ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] followers expressiveness
I don't have a good approach to how to teach followers musicality in a group lesson. In privates, I explain and show how I feel the music, so they can hear my interpretation (where to I might slow down, speed up, go with the small or large steps etc.). Once the follower understands my interpretation she can explore and contribute to the dance (because I listen to her interpretation as well). This conversation between partners is very subtle, therefore I work on it with those followers, who are already comfortable with their balance and the basic footsteps. It helps to work with one orchestra throughout the lesson, especially with those followers, who are not used as yet to dance to classic tango (common occurrence in Colorado Springs). -- Oleh Kovalchuke Argentine tango : Connection, Balance, Rhythm http://www.tangospring.com/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] the first interview for Tango Seduction
The interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKA6e1h6hwE The dance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTM2DcX5fqY -- Oleh Kovalchuke Argentine Tango : Connection, Balance, Rhythm http://www.tangospring.com/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] the first interview for Tango Seduction
I was mistaken. Here is another, much earlier interview (August 2007, and there could be more): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVCRlQDT48I Oleh On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 11:42 AM, Oleh Kovalchuke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The interview: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKA6e1h6hwE > The dance: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTM2DcX5fqY > -- > Oleh Kovalchuke > Argentine Tango : Connection, Balance, Rhythm > http://www.tangospring.com/ > ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] followers expressiveness
I get a lot of resistance from teachers on here, but, I still feel that there are a couple of things lacking from traditional teaching. Just mark this down as thinking outside the box. (1) Teach a class where the leader indicates the direction and feel of the step, the follower steps and the leader follows the follower through the step. Experiment with various types of music. Instruct the follower throughout the class on musicality. Let the leader be along for the ride. Why not? Teachers always set the follower up to be the extra in the class. Have the leader follow the follower through the step. (2) Remember my post on making the pivot be more important than steps? Okay. Using #1, above, teach the follower to move in and out of the pivot musically. Yes, teach the leader, too. But, I am all for teaching the follower and send them out to the milongas with feel. Then, the leaders will feel it through them! Can you spot the people, at milongas, that move with varying feels (energies) into and out of the pivot? Sit and watch. There are probably only a few in your community. Yes, NYC, Denver, and others will have more. One time, my partner invited an advanced leader from another community to our milongas for the weekend. I love my partner. She has what Jackie wants to teach. I gave her all the space in the world. Later, I said, So? She said, I miss that feel. No kidding. I was watching. He had a great variety of leads. For sure, I sat and, mentally, took notes. But, I knew he was missing one thing: He wasnt changing the feel as he moved through a step. You know? Give her some passion! Cool leads are, well, cool! Passionate movements are musical to the n-th degree. Here, go to this webpage: http://www.2dcurves.com/exponential/exponential.html Click on the various exponential links. Teach your leaders and followers to feel the music according to different curves. Let the x-axis be distance through the step. Let the y-axis be speed, emphasis, energy, anything other than the boredom of constant speed and energy! Create exercises where they dance to the violin, the voice, etc. Create exercises where they think of dancing heavy, like a clown, etc. AND, give examples derived from those curves. Make it fun! Let it by funny! And, above all, stop teaching just the leader! The follower paid, too! --- jackie ling wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > as most people on this list know, i lead and i > follow. i have been > told that one of my best qualities as a dancer is my > ability to > express myself musically. to quote someone... "you > dance the music". > this is not through only embellishments. > > now, i have led many followers... and there are > followers who just > follow which is nice and then there are followers > who dance with > you who dance melodically... and hear the notes > that are > emphasized and can translate that to their dance. > it feels like they > are reading my mind because my expression in the > dance becomes so > easy. her/his boleo considers not only the time of > the movement but > the energy, how the beat is used (emphasized at the > beg. of the > beat...etc)... it feels like painting. > > i probably am not expressing this correctly and > please don't give me > grief for that. in fact, if someone can express it > better, i would > love to hear it. > > my question... how do you teach this? is there an > exercise that can > help people understand what i am saying? > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] the first interview for Tango Seduction
One of the issues that we have sometimes discussed on Tango-L is how well the couples interpret the music on various YouTube videos. Looking at the two interviews, I noticed that sound seems to be slightly out of synch with the movement of the lips. That makes me wonder if some/many of the tango dance videos on YouTube suffer from the same problem. Steve (de Tejas) Interviews: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKA6e1h6hwE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVCRlQDT48I ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] NYT article...
> The biggest abuse? The campeonato mundial where people paid a fortune > to compete. Oh? I though entrance was free of charge. Who did these people pay? -- Chris ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango-L Digest, Vol 24, Issue 16
David Thorn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Huck Kennedy wrote: > > > > The tanda structure is not an anachronism. Like other Argentine > > codigos, it evolved over time to what it is today because it serves a > > very useful purpose. > > But I do not understand the blind conservatism, in any life endeavor, that > argues that "we do it the way we do it because that is how we do it" and then > proceeds to defend "it" as being the only true way on this basis. Sorry, but > this is probably the scientist nerd in me rearing its head. And what I do not understand is why anyone, let alone a "scientist," would delight in constructing and then heroically tearing down strawmen. If you will reread my posting, you will see that I explicitly state that we do not observe tandas and other codigos out of blind conservatism (my specific words were "as a gratuitous expression of culture"), but rather because they work, and they work very well, on many levels, to make the milonga experience a nice one for experienced dancers. In this day and age. And not just in Buenos Aires. Here is a nice quote I found on someone's tango blog about cortinas, but it deals with tandas as well (since they go hand in hand): http://www.loksze.com/thoughts/2007/01/ begin excerpt: But for me, cortina means more than that. I'm so much into the music that, I need a "break" in-between tandas or something to make me forget about the previous tanda. Otherwise, I will have a hard time to pull my emotion out from what has been played, then I cannot dance the next set of music. In a nutshell, I cannot immediately jump from Di Sarli to Donato, I need something to "wash away" my Di Sarli mood so that I can change myself into Donato mode, and that's what cortina means to me. I don't need a very long cortina, a 20 second or 30 second cortina is good enough. I don't know if you feel the same, but I know I'm not alone to feel this way. I noticed how much I appreciate having cortinas in-between tandas after dancing in milongas where there were no tandas and cortinas. For example the music could be like this - a Pugliese's vals "Desde el alma" -> a Canaro's milonga "Milonga Brava" -> a Di Sarli's tango "Bahia Blanca" -> a De Angelis's tango "Pavadita"… It felt like a big "rojak" (a mix salad in Singapore). I know many people don't mind and may even like it, but to dance on all these pieces one after the other and be true to each of them with my heart, no I can't. end excerpt In other words, waltz has its own mood, milonga has its own mood, and each tango orchestra has its own mood. When the tanda starts, an experienced dancer knows what the mood of the next four songs will be, and can figure out if it matches his own mood and whether or not to participate in that particular tanda. Then once out on the floor, he can cultivate that mood into a climax. Constantly flip-flopping between moods one song at a time gives experienced dancers a feeling of schizophrenia. Another reason for tandas is that it eliminates the awkwardness of deciding when to stop dancing with one person and begin dancing with another. Nobody has to wonder, "Gee, does he (or she) want to stop dancing now because they don't like me, regardless of what they say to make me feel better?" The tanda ends, and you both sit down. A third reason is it helps encourage more mixing up of partners if everyone clears the floor after the tanda is over. You get less "hogging" of good dancers. Finally, there is the classic tanda ritual, where you feel out a new partner in the first two songs of the tanda, then really start clicking in the third song after you've figured out each other's idiosyncrasies, then in the fourth song you reach nirvana, at which point you breathlessly tear apart from each other, sit down, and savor the experience before setting off on your next mini-adventure. Again, when you do set out again depends upon the mood of the upcoming tanda, and whether it fits your current mood and/or musical taste in general. Huck ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Use and Abuse of Tandas
Huck Kennedy wrote: >>Finally, there is the classic tanda ritual, where you feel out a new partner in the first two songs of the tanda, then really start clicking in the third song after you've figured out each other's idiosyncrasies, then in the fourth song you reach nirvana, at which point you breathlessly tear apart from each other, sit down, and savor the experience before setting off on your next mini-adventure. Again, when you do set out again depends upon the mood of the upcoming tanda, and whether it fits your current mood and/or musical taste in general.<< >From the dancers' perspective, the success of this strategy depends critically on the dj playing well-constructed tandas throughout the night. IMO, too many djs start their tandas with a strong tango that will pull dancers onto the floor, but then follow with much weaker choices from the same orchestra. Maybe they end with a strong piece, but you can't always count on that either. Once the tanda is weakened by poor selections, it's not surprising that people seek to abandon its structure. Steve (de Tejas) ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] followers expressiveness
On teaching musicality through the step ... I play blues guitar, specifically slow, bending blues. A lot of my movement, in dance, is similar to the way my left hand bends the strings. It's a lot like the curves from the webpage that I mentioned. Eric Clapton, and others, sometimes, use a wah-peddle. I think he used it, a lot, with Cream. Can anyone think of a song where he uses it a lot? Anyway, if anyone can find a good piece of music where the wah-peddle is used and you can try some tango exercises moving through a step with the same feel as the wah-peddle, let us know. I am working a lot, these days, and won't have a chance to look for a good piece. So, again, if anyone wants to experiment with this, let us know. I bet Jimmy Hendricks had some examples. Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] followers expressiveness
I also wanted to express that my two favorite partners, over the years, are very, very expressive. One danced a lot of salsa quite well and the other danced a lot of hustle, and other dances, quite well ... for what that matters. Also, I don't think there is any small number of exercises that can be stated for teaching followers expressiveness. I think it comes from followers really wanting it and teachers really teaching it ... a lot. And, I'll bet that cross training amongst different types of dances helps ... especially where, in tango, followers are treated as extras in the classes ... so the leaders can be accomodated. So, hurray to Jackie for asking! I hope something comes of this! Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] the first interview for Tango Seduction
> I noticed that sound seems to be slightly out of synch with the movement > of the lips. That makes me wonder if some/many of the tango dance > videos on YouTube suffer from the same problem. Steve, almost all of the tango dance videos on YouTube suffer from this problem (as is surely evident to any tango dancer viewing them) which has been reported on this list quite a few times over the last few years. -- Chris Original Message *Subject:* Re: [Tango-L] the first interview for Tango Seduction *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* Tango-L@mit.edu *Date:* Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:05:56 -0500 One of the issues that we have sometimes discussed on Tango-L is how well the couples interpret the music on various YouTube videos. Looking at the two interviews, I noticed that sound seems to be slightly out of synch with the movement of the lips. That makes me wonder if some/many of the tango dance videos on YouTube suffer from the same problem. Steve (de Tejas) Interviews: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKA6e1h6hwE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVCRlQDT48I ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] followers expressiveness
Jackie: You are writing about the confluence of technique, musicality, and emotion. I'm skipping technique. First, musicality. My teacher helped me think outside the box. He put on music, and said "Now dance, ALONE!" The first time I danced like a leader. Then he said, "Next time, dance like a follower." The third time, he said "Now interchange between lead and follower's roles." The next time he said "Do an ocho and go the other way. Don't worry about line of dance. You're the only one dancing in your house." I was leading myself. Because I was dancing alone, there was no partner to worry about. Followers need to hear the music for themselves, so they should practice by themselves. Now, they can't say "the leader rushed me or didn't give me a change for an adornment." Next, emotion. Well, you can't teach how to be happy. The best you can do is suggest how individuals can open themselves. Amazingly, tango was my can opener. Whatever you feel in your gut comes to the surface, and how you deal with life. Yoga for helpful because the therapist squeezed tension out of me. Dancers have to understand that tango is NOT resistance dancing like Swing. And it's only SOME figures in Swing that require resistance. Examples are Sailor's Shuffle and Toe-Heel Swivels. Personal problems and how individuals deal with life impact how they dance. There is NO switch to flick "off" that turns off all personal problems when getting on the dance floor. Michael I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango Two weeks to Atlanta Tango Festival-- and counting - Original Message - From: "jackie ling wong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Tango-L] followers expressiveness now, i have led many followers... and then there are followers who dance with you who dance melodically... and hear the notes that are emphasized and can translate that to their dance. my question... how do you teach this? is there an exercise that can help people understand what i am saying? thanks jackie ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
