[Tango-L] Note to Kathryn Charles.
Hello Kathryn; The Tango Festival is not mine, it is run by Tom Stermits who runs a fantastic tango festival in a great community. There are always a lot of great dancers and Leads that attend. Which I am only one out of many. If your choice is based on my opinions expressed that may have offended you. I would be happy to introduce my self so that you do not have to dance with me and have lots of opportunity to dance with other Leads. Take care. David Hodgson From: Kathryn Johns [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 11, 2008 8:09 PM To: David Hodgson Subject: Re: [Tango-L] touchy subject, huh? I just canceled my plans to attend your festival! Kathryn Johns Charleston Argentine Tango Society No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.12/1373 - Release Date: 4/11/2008 9:17 AM ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] touchy subject, huh?
Hello All; Being one of the men in the Denver community, also one of the teachers and dancers here. This matter is really blown out of proportion. On a personal level, are the issues brought up important to address, absolutely!!! This is not about pointing the finger at Chaz to put him up on a pedestal. He just came to light, is the part of the iceberg everyone can see, and that we are all involved with to one extent or another (Both men and women alike). He wrote his own ticket on this. I may not know the details, but the over all image that has been brought to light are not surprising. As the old adage goes (that I just made up) “If your going to wreck a room,,, wreck the bloody room, and do it well by gum”. I am not going to damn him for being human, he has his good qualities (I understand he has a real talent for humor, making people laugh and a good insight to a few things). He also has his stuff, his shadows, and perceptions. How he chose to express them,,, not the most aware way. Which has offended a lot of people and become a legal matter. So goes life, so goes the dance, and so expresses tango. Darleen, can you say you are expressing your self any better. It may not look like it is happing in the same way as Chaz, but the intent behind it, not much different except that you think you are trying to pull out a very sharp knife to emasculate him. When all is said and done would have perpetuated the very thing you are accusing and pointing the finger at. One of the gifts that I see in you Darleen is that you are fantastic in organizing, being outrageous, out spoken and bringing things to light. Really great stuff!!! The way you are choosing to express your self here, I know you can do better. There was a woman from our community here who wrote a great commentary concerning the situation with Chaz, and I would include you with this. I have added a little embellishment in this. There is a village and in it there is a person who has wronged other members of the village. The person who performed the wrongs was required to set things right through service to the community. This person was also to sit on a stage in the middle of the village. Each villager stopped and with respect said something they appreciated about the offender. As the people said what they needed to, the person who had offended could not say anything except “Thank you”. Sex is part of being human and even a monk has to make choices about their sexuality and expression. Just like a gigolo, and everyone else on this list. Welcome to being human. So I ask you Darleen, Chaz and everyone else involved in this dance we express. Consider for a moment what I have wrote here. I my self will be out to dance tonight. I expect some dances will be blah, some will be friendly or fun. Some will be sexy, and some will be really hot. Enjoy the evening my friends and have at least one nice dance. David Hodgson/ Zorrito No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.12/1373 - Release Date: 4/11/2008 9:17 AM ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Speak up if you are uncomfortable
Without seemingly trying to minimize the problem, let me point out that it is not only the male (teachers) who may be abusive. Please let us not lose sight of the fact that sexual harassment and abuse come from all directions. I am speaking out of personal experience both as a child and as an adult. Stay vigilant and do not tolerate it! ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Speak up if you are uncomfortable
Joe - I was very happy to see your e-mailI don't know the particular case being discussed, but I was hopeful that the over-arching point would not be missed. I have talked to women who have had things like this happen to them - if not as overt. Two women cried when talking about it and the others were so horribly embarrassed about it that they made me promise not to tell anyone. Not all of these incidents happened in my own community, but I now make it a point whenever I am working with new dancers, male or female, to talk about this. I say that at the moment that it becomes uncomfortable, it is no longer tango. I acknowledge that that a dancer's comfort zone may change over time - for example, I am very comfortable and prefer close embrace - but it certainly wasn't something I would have been comfortable with 2 years ago. Tango is about a partnership - which, as I have said before, is why we use the words "dance partner" and not victor and vanquished. It is an equal partnership, with each partner making a contribution. This can not happen without mutual respect and trust. How could that elusive connection we all seek in every dance and with every partner happen with out feeling safe, respected and trusting. For me, if those things are missing, then it is just not tango Barbra ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Competition and fair play
--- Darlene Robertson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > hello... > > just for the record i think i should point out > that i am not an instructor and am not interested in > "stealing" Chas Gale's students away from him nor > Gaia Banovich nor The Tango House in Denver, > Colorado. Your MySpace page indicates otherwise. You offer tango lessons there. http://www.myspace.com/luv2dancetango Also curious to know if you are a part of the group which has taken over the Turnverin. That would remove some competition if you could shut down The Tango House where several instructors hold classes, milongas, practicas and out of town teachers hold workshops. I keep hearing from his competition how awful he has been for years. I never realized the Colorado women were so helpless. Certainly not the ones I know well. Some of his most vocal attackers actually dated him for a time. And you are on record as having decided he was guilty before the trial. So...do we bring our own stones or will you provide them? Nancy __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Speak up if you are uncomfortable
OK. I'll speak up. I am uncomfortable with gratuitous tittle-tattle about this particular lawsuit. It should be possible to make constructive remarks about ethical conduct for dance teachers, or how women should stand up for themselves against sexual harrassment, without seeking to spread this gossipy sensationalistic tabloid news about the case in Denver. And I agree with Astrid - it seems that Darlene has more to her agenda than trying to lift up other dancers. I also think that this particular problem of a tango lesson becoming sexual misconduct - regardless of whatever really happened in the aforementioned lawsuit - is connected to a rather warped and shallow idea of tango that is popularized by tango teachers and promoters. I am uncomfortable with tango promoters and teachers representing tango as a Latin antidote to Puritan inhibition. I wish people would stop selling tango as 'intimate," a "vertical expression of a horizontal desire," the "most sexual dance," a "dance of seduction," etc. I have seen tango teachers actually say such things in a class for first-time dancers. It's not only banal, it's disgusting! And it leads to distorted ideas. I am really uncomfortable that the popular image of tango dancing, inculcated by people in the tango business, is _so sleazy_ that attorneys could reasonably construct a BS legal defense like the following: "[His attorneys] argued that Gale was simply touching the woman for purposes of teaching her the sensual dance steps of the tango." That is quoted from the link that Darlene sent. You know, tango is not strip tease - they are two different dance worlds. I wish people would stop trying to combine them. I am uncomfortable with middle-aged women dressing for the milonga as if they were turn-of-the-century prostitutes. I am uncomfortable with "best lingerie contest" as a theme for milongas. I am not a prude, but really, what is the idea here? Is the dance itself not interesting enough for you? I am uncomfortable with guys who make tango dancing into an overt grope fest and public seduction ritual. Please, have some taste! And I am uncomfortable with the widely popularized fantasy ideas of tango that seem to define tango in this way. I am uncomfortable with men who take advantage of women who are in the vulnerable position of learning a new dance. In tango it is not unusual to hear the line that the man is the boss, the woman needs to surrender, submit, give herself. Many new dancers (men as well as women) are already way out of their comfort zone just due to the fact that they are trying to learn a new dance. It can be a very big deal for some people simply to be touching others, or to be moving their own body to music, or to be taken out on a dance floor where other people can see their timid efforts. Sometimes people have worked up a lot of courage to try tango. They fight back insecurity, fear, memories of past criticism, and sometimes past abuse. It is easy to confuse and abuse people in this situation. It is wrong to mix teaching with picking people up. People who are teaching dance ought to protect and care for new dancers, and make them comfortable, and not treat them like prey. Sex is part of life, and sex certainly is an underyling component of tango dancing. I just think it should remain underlying both at the milonga and at the dance studio. I would like to be able to bring my daughters and their friends to tango. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Speak up if you're uncomfortable
Oh, this is SO the wrong way to think of this! Tango teachers know that every other tango instructor is a benefit - their marketing means more students coming into the community. All you have to do is be a good teacher with a good reputation, and others in the community will recommend you. A bigger community alone can create more buzz, which means more people interested in starting tango, which means more students for everyone. However, a teacher who is sleazy will cause people to drop out very fast. Some will try another teacher, but most will just go away, and further the myth of tango being a sleazy dance full of sleazy, groping, stalking men. The ones who stay aren't mentioning it, or if they are, it is only to very trusted teachers or their closest friends. Those people cannot warn anyone else, or if they do, it is limited and never changes anything. I too enjoyed Chas's posts and I also enjoyed dancing with him. However, I am glad that the woman who was uncomfortable said something. I'm sure she wasn't the first, and has had a difficult time. Many people in Denver knew about the situation for some time, but could do nothing. This negative publicity will be hard on the Denver tango community for awhile, but it will recover and be better for it. Loisa Donnay Minneapolis, MN > > In my eyes, it is a question of "What would a someone do who is planning to > establish himself as a tango teacher in a community where there are only so > many potential tango students to go around? What are the motives of someone > who publically defames someone who runs a business in the form of a > reasonably successful tango studio? Is that person maybe trying to help > someone who has an interest in taking over that teacher's students and does > not feel confident enough in using his teaching credentials only and needs > to resort to methods like these when the opportunity offers itself?" > > These are the questions that come to my mind in a case like this. And it > would be an important reason for me to avoid that teacher who tried to take > advantage of such a situation. > > purely hypothetical of course, I do not live in Denver but this whole affair > got me thinking... > Astrid ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] touchy subject, huh?
hello... just for the record i think i should point out that i am not an instructor and am not interested in "stealing" Chas Gale's students away from him nor Gaia Banovich nor The Tango House in Denver, Colorado. it's an uncomfortable subject. i'm UNCOMFORTABLE... that's why i want people to know about it. in 2008, with the internet, this is an easier way to notify people. my motivation is simple: to INFORM women (and to a lesser degree, men) of Chas' history... and to encourage us all to take the caveat "buyer beware" seriously. i will continue to remain on "high alert" about this issue and will, with your consternation or your blessing, let everyone know about the outcome of his sentencing and his status. he will be required to register as a convicted sex offender. he will continue to be prohibited from teaching "privates" alone (he is currently on probation for two years regarding a previous indecent exposure case in lieu of jail time). the onus is NOW on any community that decides to hire him as a teacher. simply, i don't want to take lessons from a registered, convicted sex offender. Chas' might be prevented from teaching in the US. Do you think he's not interested in continuing to pursue venues outside this country? last year, he travelled to Gaia's homeland to teach. for those of you around the world what criticism of me, or any of the rest of the Denver Tango Community, would you have if you hired someone that "some of us" knew about but didn't feel concerned enough you, my fellow tangueros y tangueras, to tell you? i would think you'd be pretty disappointed in me. i would be remorseful. that's why i posted it in the first place and stand STRONGLY by it. shoot the messenger if you want to (actually, thanks to most of you for sending words of praise) because, on this issue... i've got my bullet-proof vest on. Darlene Robertson Denver, Colorado __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Speak up if you're uncomfortable
>However, given the fact that only the two people involved know what happened, is it really fair for them to be judged by others who aren't privy to this same information? I appreciate your sense of justice, Trini. >It is a difficult issue. Sometimes it's a case of people not being able to set boundaries. Sometimes it's a case of people not respecting other's boundaries. With more experienced dancers, it can get rather murky. For teachers and community leaders, I think the question would be "What would an accredited college do?" In my eyes, it is a question of "What would a someone do who is planning to establish himself as a tango teacher in a community where there are only so many potential tango students to go around? What are the motives of someone who publically defames someone who runs a business in the form of a reasonably successful tango studio? Is that person maybe trying to help someone who has an interest in taking over that teacher's students and does not feel confident enough in using his teaching credentials only and needs to resort to methods like these when the opportunity offers itself?" These are the questions that come to my mind in a case like this. And it would be an important reason for me to avoid that teacher who tried to take advantage of such a situation. purely hypothetical of course, I do not live in Denver but this whole affair got me thinking... Astrid ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Coaching the Lead
Mario, My 2c: Posture for both leader and follower: Imagine your body pulled by two strings. The first is from your crown, pulling straight up. This aligns your head and vertebrae vertically along your spine. The second is pulling from a point in the center of your chest, mid-way between your throat and your breasts, and is pulling out and up at a 45deg angle. This pull results in your shoulders going back and dropping down, and lifting your chest, of course. Finally, keep your abs/core engaged, with your belly button pulled back towards your spine. This tips your pelvis slightly and slightly flattens your lower, "sway" back. Attitude for both leader and follower: "Stand up" to your partner. Maintain your autonomy and sovereignty. Regardless of how ethereal you feel when you get into the zone, do not swoon, do not cave, do not compromise the integrity of your posture. Even for a very tall leader and very short follower, stand as tall as possible. Tall leaders avoid bending over no matter how nurturing and protecting you are feeling towards her. Short followers avoid tipping head back as if "looking up" to your leader. it will tend to arch your back. Instead stand tall (string pulling on crown) and maintain your own wholeness and individuality. Balance: For both leader and follower: When you step, visualize moving your tailbone, which is very near the center of your body's mass, to position it directly above the foot you are stepping onto. For leaders: Pay attention to your followers axis/balance. To some degree you have a responsibility for maintaining your follower balanced. on her axis. If she has taken a step, and you follow her (in the Gavito sense), yet perhaps you slightly misjudged your step and you can feel that she is slightly off-balance and leaning or pulling on you in one direction or another, then it behooves you to slightly sway or lean your upper body (still keeping yourself vertical, of course) to a position that allows her to be more comfortably balanced without straining and using your for support. One way to think of it is that she moves her foot according to her interpretation of your lead, and you move her torso (by moving your own torso which is connected to hers) to a position that is directly above her standing foot, thereby keeping her balanced on her axis. J TangoMoments.com _ Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/connect_your_way.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_video_042008 ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Coaching the Lead
Yesterday, I had my first real breakthru in Tango. I took a private class from a very advanced dancer/follow. She helped me with my posture and balance, continuously stopping and reminding me when it went out, which was often. My head had been dropping forward which was a lot of weight going off balance and I was always concaving my chest as if to scoop her into my arms as I began the embrace. She taught me how to stand erect but relaxed and invite the woman into my embrace. At first, I was completely amazed and defeated by the additional complexity of the walk. I had to do all this and hold a woman in my arms at the same time?? When at last, I understood the connection of the embrace (apilado) as a communication, it started to click..when I could feel my chest (sternum) connection as THE communication of where we were going..the arms seemed to disappear and I began to really lead for the first time. I'm asking here for more coaching on posture, balance, etc...what helped you? What do you remind yourself of, in order to get it right each time?? thanks __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Tara Shoes News
Just a note to let everyone know what's going on at Tara Tango Shoes. We have formed an alliance with Diva Boutique which has enabled us to announce that we now have a huge inventory of styles and sizes available immediately. To see what we're stocking now, go to: http://www.taratangoshoes.com You can also check Diva Boutique's extensive collection of shoes at: http://www.diva_boutique.com We are adding new styles every month so keep checking back. All the best, Robin Tara Tara Tango Shoes ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Speak up if you're uncomfortable
--- Darlene Robertson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Sometimes tango dancers overstep their bounds... > sometimes it's exacerbated because the situation involves > an INSTRUCTOR, which damages the reputation of the entire > community. Darlene, While I completely understand where you're coming from and I agree that those who feel that they've been abused should speak up, we differ on WHO needs to be informed. As an instructor, I keep the same policy that school teachers take, i.e., I don't share a student's grade, concerns, or contact info with the public. Other teachers I may inform on a need-to-know basis. However, given the fact that only the two people involved know what happened, is it really fair for them to be judged by others who aren't privy to this same information? Although we often think of tango communities as families, there's a point in which it needs to be looked at it professionally from a liability standpoint. Another way of thinking about it is if one employee informed their supervisor about sexual harassment of another employee to his/her management, would you expect the supervisor to go around telling everyone else about the incident? It is a difficult issue. Sometimes it's a case of people not being able to set boundaries. Sometimes it's a case of people not respecting other's boundaries. With more experienced dancers, it can get rather murky. For teachers and community leaders, I think the question would be "What would an accredited college do?" Trini de Pittsburgh PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburghs most popular social dance! http://patangos.home.comcast.net/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
