Re: [Tango-L] getting educated
Mario says: > Do you 'teach' it?? Wouldn't it be like taking a class in > 'Feeling' ?? Would you believe someone who had a PHD in 'Feeling' ? > I know that we're all concerned with making a living but.. Can we > just leave 'teaching' behind?...isn't there another way?? A pedagogical role is to create a situation where the learner can discover what he or she needs to learn. I would no more believe in someone with a PhD in "Feeling" than I would someone with a PhD in "Tango". I would like to leave teaching behind. When the learner seeks advice from the person with more experience, what then? "No, you still don't get it kid. Keep trying." That is one tradition of tango. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Double decker buses?
When looking at Tango, one must take into consideration not only the culture but the effects on that culture that modern technology is having...today in BsAs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uXzBthVF3I - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] getting educated
>For the man, the ability to absorb the music in his body and feel >immersed in it, and then to transmit what he is feeling in the music >to his partner. -joe ok..Granted, this is important!... Do you 'teach' it?? Wouldn't it be like taking a class in 'Feeling' ?? Would you believe someone who had a PHD in 'Feeling' ? I know that we're all concerned with making a living but.. Can we just leave 'teaching' behind?...isn't there another way?? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU64NSfcolc - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] getting educated
Jeff wrote: > So people, what in you opinion would you count as a good basic education > for someone who wants to do tango? I would define the skill set that results from a good basic education in tango as follows, more or less in order of importance. - Familiarity with the music (including milonga and vals) so that the dancer hears, feels, and can dance to the rhythm, and is sensitive to the musical development in typical pieces of tango music. - For the man, the ability to absorb the music in his body and feel immersed in it, and then to transmit what he is feeling in the music to his partner. - For the woman, the ability to absorb the music in her body and feel immersed in it, and then to receive and respond to what the man transmits. - For both men and women, an internalized familiarity with the characteristic movements of tango, such as walking, crossing, and pivoting. - For the man, a knowledge of how to move his body so as to guide the direction of the women's steps. - For the woman, the knowledge of how to respond to the man's movements. These skills are acquired by months and years of listening and dancing to the music, and practicing, and dancing with good partners. Instructors can help in all of this, but for the most part, dancers learn by doing and being around tango. The music teaches you, mileage on the dance floor teaches you. Watching other good tango dancers teaches you. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Musicality and embrace of B.A.
Thanks for an enlightening post Heather. Makes me feel that I'm not the only one outside of BA living on a different Tango planet. Anton ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Getting educated (restated and expanded)
I don't think my previous post on this subject was sufficiently clear. I've refined my comments. The bottom line is that I think it is good to find a partner with whom to develop skills and even better to find a group with whom to develop skills. There just isn't enough of a payoff in some places to develop skills on one's own. At some point, most tango dancers choose not to improve because the effort required isn't paid back with a sufficient improvement in the quality of the dance experience. In a partner dance, such as tango, the tango skills of one's potential partners can greatly influence how much improving one's own skills improves the dance experience. Improving one's own skills doesn't do much good if one's potential dance partners have mediocre skills. The required complementarity of skills in dance partners can lead to a situation in which an entire community remains mired in mediocrity, even though many individual dancers may want to improve their skills. In such communities, where improving beyond the mediocre level is unnecessary to participate, individuals have little incentive to improve their skills. The quality of their own dance experience won't increase appreciably and may reduce the number of potential partners with whom it is enjoyable to dance. Moreover, the better-skilled dancers may also find it difficult to keep their skills honed while dancing in a community dominated by mediocre dancers. In such a community, a strong personal drive to excel is necessary to launch the person well beyond where their own community stands. But tango is a partner dance, and it is better to find at least one partner who is willing to work together toward the same goals of excellent dancing--by taking some private lessons and practicing a lot. But even if the couple succeeds in developing their skills dramatically, they find themselves mired in a community of mediocre dancers. Perhaps a better idea is to form a small practice group of both men and women, in which all the other people have similar goals and are willing to work. The group might want to consider organizing lessons for themselves and attending workshops in other cities as a group, etc. Most importantly, everyone in the group must make a committment to developing a high level of excellence in tango. Once the group has succeeded and begins attending milongas in the community, everyone in the group will have more potential partners at the milongas. Moreover, the group may act as a seed for better dancing in the entire community. With best regards, Steve (de Tejas) ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Musicality and embrace of B.A.
People dance from their environment. Besides our obvious cultural disadvantage we simply don't set up the situational environment or the collective conscious mental state that produces this kind of dancing. We need smaller more crowded floors. The kind of creativity this produces is superiour. The leads throw out the bullshit and get down to business. This, that can seem like a limitation, actually makes the more intelligent lead with the best reaction time to the floor but also musical options. We need leads that educate other leads of the unacceptability of poor floor craft. We need to give followers the ability to say no to leads who don't feel good. This will set an unspoken hierarchy and healthy competition between leads that is based on dancing for the follower's pleasure. Our scenes have too many obligatory dancing going on based in being 'friendly'. Followers need an embrace with substance and cadencia. Standardized boring musicality doesn't feel good, neither does over elaborated musicality that is just out to fit in his best moves and prove his knowledge of the music. We need dancers who aren't dancing to be admired by the people watching. This means followers too. If your pretty shoes and your perfect boleo are occupying your consciouness...somethings wrong there. We need dancers who develop a true sincere emotional attachment to the music. You can talk to individuals forever about the embrace and musicality of Buenos Aires and it won't change anything until we purposely manipulate the environment and prioritize mentally what is the most important in the dance experience. Oh Yeah, one more thing- We need to stop letting any instructor come into our communities and teach unless, trivial moves, under the name of 'creativity', that take us farer and farer from what really matters. _ Get Free (PRODUCT) RED™ Emoticons, Winks and Display Pics http://joinred.spaces.live.com?ocid=TXT_HMTG_prodredemoticons_052008 ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] A troublesome lead
To induce the woman to cross front after step #2 of the base, I lead both with my chest and my right arm. A very important element of this lead is that the chest increases the forward lean as you keep your right arm firm to induce her to cross front, instead of back. Observe that sometimes he goes " in a mirror step" (en espejo) and his right foot goes parallel to her left one. Sometimes we induce a similar move after step #3 of the base: we step forward, outside body, with right and ***keep the chest back*** ( an unusual step) ; after she steps back with her right we induce the front cross of her left by bringing the chest forward without moving the feet. A very dramatic move. I learned this move from Nito Garcia. Best regards, Sergio _ Stay in touch when you're away with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_052008 ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] arrastre (musical)
On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 7:22 PM, Joe Grohens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Well... this is fantastic. The "arrastre test" seems like kind of an > idiosyncratic prerequisite for being a tango teacher, I agree. I truly admire Jake for the way he's plunged these last few years via research into the deepest depths of tango, but I'd be willing to bet that if you asked 99 out of 100 tango teachers, including the best from Argentina, what an arrastre was, they'd reply that it was a foot drag and wouldn't have the slightest idea that it was also a musical term. Dancers, even and especially the best ones, don't know diddly about technical music theory. Hell, they don't even know what syncopation means (they think it means double-timing something), so how are they to be expected to know what an arrastre means in the musical world? I'd also like to ask Jake just exactly what purpose this supposedly de rigueur knowledge serves to the new aspiring dancer. I'm trying to imagine the dialogue: Official Arrastre-Certified Teacher: "You hear the way this music goes, "ba-RUMP!!" It is absolutely essential for you to know that that is called an "arrastre." Student: "Wow, cosmic, dude!!! All of a sudden my balance is great now, I'm dancing!! That's all that was holding me back, thanks!!!" :-) Huck ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] A Troublesome Lead
David wrote: >>To me, it looks like he is leading it with his right arm (and hand). Is that how you see it as well?<< I understand why David says what he does, but I see it a little differently. As I see it, the beginning of her cross following her side step right is led with the same torso rotation required for a forward ocho and the space created between his left side and her right side that he creates by stepping side left a little away from her. His closure of the space rotates her about her right leg axis and creates the cross from what might otherwise become a forward ocho. His arm (and by extension only) and his hand complete the movement with her, but I don't see a much force in his arm or hand. It is rotation and the creation and elimination of space that leads the movements. With best regards, Steve http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqgujDIWlOc >>I think the one at he does at 1:06 gives the best view. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Michaels posture tips- getting educated
I agree with all of Michaels tips except this one: "5) Maintain good posture by keeping the hips back so the chest comes forward. (This is NOT the same thing as bending forward from the waist.)" Rather than emphasize the hips back, which might lead to a sway back and bad curvature of the spine, I think its better to think of bringing the navel back toward the spine, and elongating and straightening the spine by slightly rotating the pelvis down, definitely not "up" or "back". Once thats done, feel your posture as if you took a deep chest breath, or as if a string is pulling up and out from your sternum at a 45 degree angle to the ceiling. Chin back and down a bit so the head and neck are directly stacked over the spine. Now slightly tilt forward from your ankles up so you feel the weight more over the ball of the foot than over the heel. That's pretty much it, the embrace has its own set of preferences, some people think of shoulders down and engaging the muscles under the shoulder blades, others think of arms out and around, but avoid round shouldered look. Keep shoulders on same plane as chest, even when your arms are out in a huge colgada. Actually, many of these tips were already posted a while back by Keith of Hong Kong, who did a lot better job than me of explaining it. I had his tips confirmed recently in a private with Lorena Ermocida. The only premier tanguero I know who has his hips somewhat back is Javier Rodriguez, not sure if its due to his anatomy or style preference, I hope he doesn't develop lower back pain as he ages. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] A Troublesome Lead
Keith, I think the one at he does at 1:06 gives the best view. To me, it looks like he is leading it with his right arm (and hand). Is that how you see it as well? For the people who couldn't get the link to work, remove the backslash "\" (it came after "watch" and before "?" in the link). I'll post it below, but the email might goof it up again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqgujDIWlOc Regards, David -- From: Keith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [Tango-L] A Troublesome Lead To: tango-l@mit.edu There's one lead that I always find troublesome and generally avoid. It's LF side, lady RF side and then, without a pause, lead the lady into a LF Front Cross in front of me. The reasons I find it troublesome are: 1. I feel that it results in a break in the connection; and 2. I feel that it needs a lead with the right arm, which I generally don't like to do. The reason I raise the subject now is that I was watching an excellent video of Alberto Dassieu that was posted by Mario. http://www.youtube.com/watch\?v=VqgujDIWlOc Alberto gives this lead 4 times during the dance at 0.39, 1.06, 1.17 and 2.40. On 2 ocassions he does it without moving his RF and the other 2 he steps forward, with the lady, with his RF. Do others who dance in close embrace lead this step and, if so, how do you resolve the problems I have? I emphasise that the lead is without a pause. I have no trouble leading the lady to step in front of me with her LF if I pause after my RF side and LF close. Keith, HK ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Getting educated
Jeff: I understand your pain. My private teacher never concentrated on figures except to help me with my technique. So, as part of a good basic education: 1) Relaxed body so the muscles don't grip so the dancer and give and feel the lead 2) How to maintain axis 3) Develop a firm, but gentle frame 4) Have good balance (don't dance pigdeon toed) 5) Maintain good posture by keeping the hips back so the chest comes forward. (This is NOT the same thing as bending forward from the waist.) Joe always said "Michael, it's the HOW, not the WHAT, that matters." The Chinese have an expression "Give a man a fish; feed him for one day. Teach a man to fish; feed him for life." Translated to tango "Teach somebody a figure and all they can do is that specific figure. Teach them how to dance with the education I listed above, they can dance anything." Michael Ditkoff Washington, DC Probably going to the Big Apple next weekend for the all night milonga and hoping to schedule a business trip to NY. On 5/2/08, Jeff Gaynor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > So people, what in you opinion would you count as a good basic education > for someone who wants to do tango? > ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Getting educated
Jeff Gaynor raises what I consider some interesting points. At some point, most tango dancers choose not to improve. In quite a few communities the acceptable level of mediocrity can be fairly low because people can go to milongas and play at dancing tango. In such communities, we see kind of dynamic that Jeff describes where improving beyond the mediocre level is unnecessary to participate and becomes difficult because there is no one else dancing well enough that it makes much of a difference. The community remains mired at a relatively low level. What happens for those tango dancers who have the aptitude, are willing to work hard to develop and polish their skills, but aren't planning to make a living from tango? In this case, a personal drive to excel becomes necessary to create an environment that launches the person well beyond where their own community stands One typical idea is working with at least one partner who is willing to work together toward the same goals of excellent dancing--by taking some private lessons and practicing a lot. Once the couple has succeeded in developin their skills to the point they considerable desirable, however they will still find themselves in the same community of mediocre dancers. Perhaps a better idea is to form a small practice group practice group with both mena and women in which all the other people have similar goals and are willing to work, possibly organizing lessons for the group together, attending workshops in other cities as group, etc. Most importantly, everyone in the group must make a committement to developing a high level of excellence in tango. Once the group has succeeded and emerges at milongas in the community, everyone in the group will have more potential partners at the milongas, and the group may act as a seed for better dancing in the entire community. With best regards, Steve ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango Teaching and certification
I completely changed my curriculum when I went to learn a new dance. I tried Lindy, but the concepts were too random. I tried West Coast swing (basically the same as Lindy, only slower and straightened out). Same concepts as Lindy, but the instructional methdology was much more directed and clear. At the basic level, WCS is taught as a set of 6 or 8 "basic" patterns that fit the music as a 6 or 8 count moves. A leader can attend a month of classes and pick up most of these patterns one by one, and immediately start dancing. Yes, he's wooden, and yes, he's just repeating patterns. 2 or 6 months later (or maybe never), a "miracle occurs", and the man is dancing intuitively, changing off the different patterns without thinking, swapping in and out new moves, and ready to start learning more stuff. So, I changed from an analytical approach: walking, turns, cross- footed theory, to a small-element approach. I also changed to a more directed approach: Here's the music, here are 8 or 10 short sequences that fit the music. If you have memorized 3 or 4 moves, you are already qualified to get up and dance. Yes, their wooden. Yes, 2 or 6 (or never) months later a miracle occurs But, as they say in Perl, there is more than one way to do it, that is, tango is also a Pathologically Eclectic Rubish Lister. On May 2, 2008, at 6:58 AM, Paul Shrivastava wrote: > As a life long academic also involved in building educational > institutions let me throw in my 2-cents into this conversation. I > have > reviewed all the formal "syllabuses" that I could find online (about > 20) > and outlines of about 50 workshops by all sorts of Tango teachers from > US and BA. The lack of uniformity and standards is apparent event > to a > casual observer. > > Tango to me is simultaneously a dance, a music and a culture. Just > learning the steps without knowing the emotional and cultural and > intellectual meanings behind the dance, is like learning to bake > cakes > from a ready-made mix, instead of using basic ingredients. You may > still get a cake out of it, but it is not the same. > > Most Tango teaching today focuses on steps, some teacher/workshops pay > some attention musicality and emotionality. But, there as no > standards. > ... > Paul ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Getting educated
With all of the talk about qualifications for teachers, it dawns on me that I don't have a functional definition of what it means to be well-rounded and educated in tango. At this point my education is spotty. I know some close embrace. It impresses me that getting well rounded should be my next goal. Since I cannot go for depth of material, I'll have to go for breadth. (OK, I'll come clean. I've laid off tango for a while for various personal reasons and for the fact that there are no women in my community that are interested in dancing at a high level. Consequently I found that mostly when I danced I was getting into the habit of correcting for their bad technique. One factor that made me decide to lay off was taking lessons from a few excellent teachers all of whom independently told me that dancing with poor followers was the biggest single reason I was stuck. At this point I'm at a dead end, so it's either figure out something to keep me active in the community or just drop out from boredom and frustration. I'm not alone, I suspect -- how many people who drop out are in the same boat as me, I wonder?) Oh and *please* keep the ideology to a minimum. Look, I'm no pro, right? In the case of CE vs. OE vs. Fantasia etc. what has happened is you've thought about it for years and with a sound background, gravitated towards what suits you best. Fine. However (this is me talking as a teacher in other fields), narrowing down the field to your particular love runs the real risk of stupefying your students. If they do it just like you say, it should be the case they can hold their own anywhere rather than give a pious sermon on how something is not "real". This just looks like they cover their ignorance with sanctimoniousness. So people, what in you opinion would you count as a good basic education for someone who wants to do tango? ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Tango Teaching and certification
As a life long academic also involved in building educational institutions let me throw in my 2-cents into this conversation. I have reviewed all the formal "syllabuses" that I could find online (about 20) and outlines of about 50 workshops by all sorts of Tango teachers from US and BA. The lack of uniformity and standards is apparent event to a casual observer. Tango to me is simultaneously a dance, a music and a culture. Just learning the steps without knowing the emotional and cultural and intellectual meanings behind the dance, is like learning to bake cakes from a ready-made mix, instead of using basic ingredients. You may still get a cake out of it, but it is not the same. Most Tango teaching today focuses on steps, some teacher/workshops pay some attention musicality and emotionality. But, there as no standards. If you look at the evolution of professionalization in any field - medicine, legal, management, education, they all involve developing some standards, and establishing independent accrediting agencies that monitor and certify them. There are standards and accreditations in music, dance, and theater. So clearly standards can be created in Tango. To build an infrastructure for certifying teachers or learners there is a lot of basic work to be done in codifying and documenting Tango and creating standards and norms. Without that hard work, all this talk of certifying and qualifying is bull. Are there institutions, individuals, practitioners willing to engage in this work? Paul Paul Shrivastava, Ph.D. Tel 610-737-7333 www.facstaff.bucknell.edu/shrivast ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Embrace and musicality in Buenos Aires.
> Over the years, tangueras returning from Buenos Aires raved about the Porteno tangueros. They said that the Portenos lead easy steps, used a secure and passionate embrace, and displayed wonderful musicality. As a friend of mine was gushing about the Portenos' embrace, I asked her why she didn't she just teach the embrace to the men here. She looked at me like I was insane< My 2 cents: If tango dancing can be comparable to kissing in the way how dance is interjected with pauses and changes of intensity, then this might be equivalent to teaching a man how to kiss a woman. I think the issue is learning how to apply the principles porteños use on the dance floor to one's situation. Cheers, Bruno ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] A Troublesome Lead
On Fri, 02 May 2008 09:00:05 -0400, you wrote: >Keith... > >The link is not working.. > >So I didn't see the video.., > >but what you're saying is a single step to the followers right, >directly into a cross... If you'd care to know how I do it.., here >it is. > >One can do a vine in the direction of the followers left? Side step, >front step..? Sorry... I meant "one can do a vine to the followers *right*?" >I simply simulate the start of the second vine step by a 'jog' to the >shoulders... Then immediately come back to flat on and not moving >latterally at all. A fake pivot I guess? But it causes the ladies >left foot to cross over her right foot. > >And when that step is cancelled, the left foot just falls back to the >right side of her right foot.Because the lady knows that's where >the leader put it. > >Easy enough... ?? > >Floyd > > > > > > > > > >On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 14:26:46 -0400, you wrote: > >> >> There's one lead that I always find troublesome and generally avoid. It's LF >> side, >>lady RF side and then, without a pause, lead the lady into a LF Front Cross >>in >>front of me. The reasons I find it troublesome are: >> >>1. I feel that it results in a break in the connection; and >>2. I feel that it needs a lead with the right arm, which I generally don't >>like to do. >> >>The reason I raise the subject now is that I was watching an excellent video >>of >>Alberto Dassieu that was posted by Mario. >> >>http://www.youtube.com/watch\?v=VqgujDIWlOc >> >>Alberto gives this lead 4 times during the dance at 0.39, 1.06, 1.17 and >>2.40. >>On 2 ocassions he does it without moving his RF and the other 2 he steps >>forward, >>with the lady, with his RF. >> >>Do others who dance in close embrace lead this step and, if so, how do you >>resolve >>the problems I have? I emphasise that the lead is without a pause. I have no >>trouble >>leading the lady to step in front of me with her LF if I pause after my RF >>side and >>LF close. >> >>Keith, HK >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>___ >>Tango-L mailing list >>Tango-L@mit.edu >>http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > Buffalo Tango - Argentine Tango - How To Tango > * * * * * * www.buffalotango.com * * * * * * > >___ >Tango-L mailing list >Tango-L@mit.edu >http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l Buffalo Tango - Argentine Tango - How To Tango * * * * * * www.buffalotango.com * * * * * * ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Questions about couples' milongas.
ming_mar asked: <> First, Sunderland is not just for couples but it might depend on the night you went, but the answer is yes to all the questions, and they go back to their seats, whether in Sunderland, Sin Rumbo or other milongas. Argentines do not start dancing to the first note of music but usually chat a little bit first and almost always clear the floor after, even if they want to dance the next tanda. People in the U.S. tend to dance to all or most of the songs, but portenos wait for their favorites so sitting down makes sense. I don't know what is happening at some of the other "nuevo" milongas that are attracting the younger crowd and some of the tourists, but the traditional ones still follow this protocol. Cheers, Charles ** Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food. (http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod000301) ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] A Troublesome Lead
Keith... The link is not working.. So I didn't see the video.., but what you're saying is a single step to the followers right, directly into a cross... If you'd care to know how I do it.., here it is. One can do a vine in the direction of the followers left? Side step, front step..? I simply simulate the start of the second vine step by a 'jog' to the shoulders... Then immediately come back to flat on and not moving latterally at all. A fake pivot I guess? But it causes the ladies left foot to cross over her right foot. And when that step is cancelled, the left foot just falls back to the right side of her right foot.Because the lady knows that's where the leader put it. Easy enough... ?? Floyd On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 14:26:46 -0400, you wrote: > > There's one lead that I always find troublesome and generally avoid. It's LF > side, >lady RF side and then, without a pause, lead the lady into a LF Front Cross in >front of me. The reasons I find it troublesome are: > >1. I feel that it results in a break in the connection; and >2. I feel that it needs a lead with the right arm, which I generally don't >like to do. > >The reason I raise the subject now is that I was watching an excellent video >of >Alberto Dassieu that was posted by Mario. > >http://www.youtube.com/watch\?v=VqgujDIWlOc > >Alberto gives this lead 4 times during the dance at 0.39, 1.06, 1.17 and 2.40. >On 2 ocassions he does it without moving his RF and the other 2 he steps >forward, >with the lady, with his RF. > >Do others who dance in close embrace lead this step and, if so, how do you >resolve >the problems I have? I emphasise that the lead is without a pause. I have no >trouble >leading the lady to step in front of me with her LF if I pause after my RF >side and >LF close. > >Keith, HK > > > > > > > >___ >Tango-L mailing list >Tango-L@mit.edu >http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l Buffalo Tango - Argentine Tango - How To Tango * * * * * * www.buffalotango.com * * * * * * ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] how to lead (was 'weight change')
Alexis, >From your job title, you sound like a scientist, so let's do a little scientific experiment to try to settle this matter. Find a fixed point in your house [or office] at chest height. We'll assume this is the connection point on the lady's chest when you dance Tango. Now stand in front of this point so that your own connection point is facing it. It's better if the fixed point is projecting forward so that your chest can make physical contact. Now see if you can change weight, from foot to foot, while maintaining that contact. If you can, and as her axis obviously hasn't moved, she has no lead to follow your weight changes. You'll actually find it very easy and the key is rotation of the torso. I assume we agree that rotation of the torso about her unchanged axis will not lead her to make a step. I'm not a scientist and I just made this experiment up, so please feel free with your corrections. Keith, HK On Tue Apr 29 2:23 , Alexis Cousein sent: >If (or I should say when) the frame is really locked, it is impossible >for you to do a weight change and for your partner to do none; >by definition: a weight change means moving your centre of gravity >relative to your support points, and if the frame is locked, by >definition you can't have one person doing it and the other not. > ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] A Troublesome Lead
There's one lead that I always find troublesome and generally avoid. It's LF side, lady RF side and then, without a pause, lead the lady into a LF Front Cross in front of me. The reasons I find it troublesome are: 1. I feel that it results in a break in the connection; and 2. I feel that it needs a lead with the right arm, which I generally don't like to do. The reason I raise the subject now is that I was watching an excellent video of Alberto Dassieu that was posted by Mario. http://www.youtube.com/watch\?v=VqgujDIWlOc Alberto gives this lead 4 times during the dance at 0.39, 1.06, 1.17 and 2.40. On 2 ocassions he does it without moving his RF and the other 2 he steps forward, with the lady, with his RF. Do others who dance in close embrace lead this step and, if so, how do you resolve the problems I have? I emphasise that the lead is without a pause. I have no trouble leading the lady to step in front of me with her LF if I pause after my RF side and LF close. Keith, HK ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Certification vs. Qualifications
On Fri, 2 May 2008 12:28 +0100 (BST), you wrote: >> A seal of approval from the Argentine government, as approved by the >> people they choose to judge the instructors around the world would be >> a lot more than a vanity credential. > >I think you'd find the Argentine govt are amongst /last/ people the tango >world would trust for a seal of approval. As far as upholding many people's current way of 'teaching/mechanizing' of Tango..?For sure! >> It would be a copyright protected symbol >Ho ho! ;) As much as any others we already have, trust and go with... Would you have a problem trying to get one? >Floyd, this proposal of yours made more sense its original 100% ironic form. Well perhaps it did... But there were so many that wanted to change it into ways that were obviously counter productive and already shown to not work., that I thought it MUST be a good idea. ?? I'm pretty sure it will never happen of course. But wouldn't it be nice if it did?I'm an optimist and idealist you know... Makes life more hopeful and enjoyable to think better things are coming. It also helps that I eat a frog every morning. The rest of the day always looks brighter then... Take care... Floyd Buffalo Tango - Argentine Tango - How To Tango * * * * * * www.buffalotango.com * * * * * * ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Certification vs. Qualifications
> A seal of approval from the Argentine government, as approved by the > people they choose to judge the instructors around the world would be > a lot more than a vanity credential. I think you'd find the Argentine govt are amongst /last/ people the tango world would trust for a seal of approval. > It would be a copyright protected symbol Ho ho! ;) Floyd, this proposal of yours made more sense its original 100% ironic form. -- Chris ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Certification vs. Qualifications
On Thu, 01 May 2008 16:23:32 -0400, you wrote: >People, > >"Teacher certification" is one of the things that teachers sell to other >people who want to teach. Like any other degree or certificate (PhDs >included), it only denotes that you've paid for it and shown up. The >only reason to get one is to qualify for hire at a business that >requires it. (Schools are often such a business.) >Otherwise, "teacher certification" is purely a vanity credential. >There's a market for that sort of thing. The seal of approval I was thinking of was to come from the originators of the dance. The government which considers it their national dance. The judges being people from As.Bs. of the type who work cleaning mausoleums and grave stones during the day to make enough in tips to Tango at night. A seal of approval from the Argentine government, as approved by the people they choose to judge the instructors around the world would be a lot more than a vanity credential. It would way more be a true validation of one's ability. Not a case of being required by schools, etc. It would be a copyright protected symbol that one could place in ads as being a qualified Tango instructor. One could still 'teach' without it of course. There are 'approvals' given by neutral judges in many area. The BBB, the Blue Book, Consumer Reports, etc. that cover products and services we pay for. Caveat Emptor isn't that difficult in most instances if one cares to try... But when it comes to learning Tango? Ha! No chance at all. I was teaching at a facility where the owner freely admitted he didn't know how to Tango in the least. Yet he told me how to teach it. More *moves* he said. 'More like the other teachers teach their dances.'. Salsa, merengue, etc.So students have more 'fun'... I guess it didn't matter we would then be stealing from them. Not really teaching the Tango they were paying to learn. Just his comic hollywood version of it. I couldn't go his way so he got rid of me and hired someone who would. A new student of mine and her boyfriend.., he being totally new to Tango but learning lots of show moves. :-p I'm sure there are Tango instructor horror stores galore out there. Mine not even coming close to the worst. >--- >I've withheld putting this anywhere in public, because I don't want to >embarrass anyone who doesn't measure up. >I hardly think my personal requirements are strict. Exactly.For being an instructor, they're not strict at all.. Dancing ability does not automatically equal understanding, or any particular 'teaching' ability at all. Tango dancing requires body control. Tango teaching requires mind control. Has one bothered to get things in order 'up there' as well as they have 'down there'...? Not necessarily likely. They're totally different when it comes to mindset and goals. Teaching is doing for others. Dancing is doing for ones self... They're rather mutually exclusive when looked at in that sense. Ergo, good dancers may not be able to teach at all. Other than that.., I agree 99 percent on what you say below. Everything but the last sentence... Tango on... Floyd >--- >The question arises: Why are there so many unqualified teachers? > >1. Young communities are built up on the enthusiasm of a small group, >and they work with what they've got. Often I see that the /de facto/ >teachers in such places (i.e., the grass-roots organizers) are very >modest about what they do, and even deny themselves the "title" of >teacher. No harm there: these folks deserve a pat on the back, in my >opinion. Until-- > >2. Teachers often use assistants, and then these assistants get it into >their heads that, because they've "taught" a little, they're entitled to >teach on their own. These dancers, I notice, seldom meet my first /and >most important/ requirement of proficiency in either role. > >3. Talented dancers sometimes perform, and think that if you can perform >you can teach. I don't know why they think that, but they do; and this >delusion (a conflation of very distinct areas in the arts) accounts for >most of the poor teachers in any artistic discipline. >Regarding tango in particular, performing & teaching perhaps get >conflated because so many teachers do end-of-class demos. I personally >think such demos are worthless, unless the teacher (singular) does them >with every student there, for /that/ student and not for an audience. >(This should be going on /during/ a good class though, and it >/partially/ explains why I think "proficiency in either role" is the >foremost qualification.) > >Jake Buffalo Tango - Argentine Tango - How To Tango * * * * * * www.buffalotango.com * * * * * * ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Embrace and musicality in Buenos Aires.
Over the years, tangueras returning from Buenos Aires raved about the Porteno tangueros. They said that the Portenos lead easy steps, used a secure and passionate embrace, and displayed wonderful musicality. As a friend of mine was gushing about the Portenos' embrace, I asked her why she didn't she just teach the embrace to the men here. She looked at me like I was insane. 1. To the ladies who like the Porteno embrace, have you tried to teach it to the men folk back home? Were you successful? 2. Same question regarding musicality. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
