Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo, Apilado... and marketing. The botom line is always $$$
its all tango Yes... up to the point where it is not. others may start in close embrace and then decide to move a bit apart for the sake of experimenting with new movements and musical interpretation. I've seen moves in workshops calling themselves tango nuevo that anyone else would call rock and roll e.g. partners swinging apart to the limit of arms' reach, connected by just hands, and then pulling back together again. This is the kind of thing that happens when a instructor finds a $$$ opportunity amongst students who don't know what tango is, but still will pay for more of it. If you say this is all tango, then you rob the word tango of any useful meaning. -- Chris ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Nuevo, Apilado, marketing
Clarin, the major Buenos Aires daily paper, called her one of the four most important influences on contemporary tango... I've heard this is a fabrication. Does anyone actually have a copy of any Clarin article that said this? --Chris I searched the archives of Clarin Newspaper from the year 1997 till today and found only one mention of Susana Miller . Monday, 28th 2006 : There is an article that reports that the famous Argentine Tango teacher donated the collection of her workshops to the children's Hospital in New Orleans for the damage caused by Hurricane Katrina. The archives searches were done under Noticias Headings (News). Still is possible that she may have been mentioned in some of the Newspaper magazines or supplements. Such as those that list activities in the artistic world. The important thing is that there were/are defferent tango styles. Tete and Susana were the first ones that decided to travel abroad to teach the milonguero style, a form of social tango, such as it was danced in Buenos Aires at a time when most of the other instructors were teaching Stage Tango, or tango fantasia. Cacho Dante also started to teach that style, and fairly soon most non-Argentine instructors did the same. The problem arises when certain people, ignoring the broad universe of tango, are convinced that that style or form of dancing is the only one. Sergio _ Watch “Cause Effect,” a show about real people making a real difference. Learn more. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_watchcause ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo, Apilado, marketing
On Jun 29, 2008, at 9:45 AM, Sergio Vandekier wrote: Clarin, the major Buenos Aires daily paper, called her one of the four most important influences on contemporary tango... I've heard this is a fabrication. Does anyone actually have a copy of any Clarin article that said this? --Chris I've read the article Chris is referring to, but it isn't saved in my email archives. His fabrication comment is a fabrication. I searched the archives of Clarin Newspaper from the year 1997 till today and found only one mention of Susana Miller . See the article below from Aug 8, 1999. I was first exposed to the close, rhythmic style of dancing at Almagro in 1996. On that first visit I learned the important lesson that I didn't know jack about tango, and I would have to work a lot harder to get it. Cacho Dante also started to teach that style, and fairly soon most non-Argentine instructors did the same. Where are your statistics on this? Maybe 4 or 5 out of 15-20 Denver teachers teach or emphasize a very close, rhythmic style, 5 or 6 nuevo/modern (following Gustavo/Salas or adding elements from swing), 7 or 8 some variation along the classic salon to fantasy spectrum (sometimes its hard to classify). More important is the fact that most people in Denver vary their personal style, depending on the situation, partner or mood. In any given week have different venues: lessons, practicas, milongas and sometimes performances. By Irene Amuchastegui and Laura Falcoff Clarin NespaperSunday, August 8, 1999 NEW STYLES OF DANCE GENERATE CONFRONTATIONS AND POLEMICS BETWEEN MILONGUEROS For ten years, the proliferation of teachers and schools have been modifying the way to dance tango. Although the change is evident, it has heterogeneous forms. As a result of that, there is a new paradigm: today, anyone can dance. The static postcard of the milongas today, with its colorful mixture of hippyoungster and old time historical habitues united in the ritual of the dance, is not more than that: a flat image that rarely reveals something more than a repertoire of archetypes. Behind that frozen scene, nevertheless, an unsuspected and burning world exists where the old can be new, the novelty can be obsolete, a simple thing can be difficult, and the excessive is insufficient. And in that, on the other hand, all these values are in permanent change. Ten years ago, and in a symptomatic coincidence with the world-wide triumph of the musical review Tango Argentino, the social dance of tango began to rise from the ashes in which it had been almost buried for decades. It is known that throughout these last ten years, the panorama was modified completely. Today, hundreds of instructors shape thousands of dancers who attend tens of milongas. In order to have an idea, it is enough to take a look at anyone ofthe specialized publications (Tangauta, B.A. Tango), or to consider that at a single school (Estrella-LaViruta) there is an enrollment of 600 students. But beyond the numbers factor, the phenomenon of the contemporary milongas marks a historical change in another sense: a new change of direction in the continuous transformation of the styles of dance throughout the century. What is being favored today on the dance floor? If it is what can be observed with more frequency, one would say that three tendencies are disputing for supremacy: the Urquiza style, the Almagro style and the Naveira style, as the fans know them, - implying a neighborhood, a club and a teacher. They are not difficult to distinguish. Make yourself comfortable on a stool by the bar and you will see them move over the waxed surface: a couple that advances with long steps, touching the floor as if they are wearing gloves on their feet (Urquiza), is followed by other couple closely embraced and whose short steps adjust synchronously to the beat (Almagro), and behind, a third couple that unfolds all the imaginable variety of figures which the previous couples can do without (Naveira). Adding to that, there will be another couple schooled in the style of Antonio Todaro and belonging to an elite with technical formation, that alternates between the social dancing at the milongas and the professional stage performances. The fans are simultaneously protagonists and judges of the prevailing tendencies. In some halls, one or another one dominates. But on several pistas the practitioners of different styles mix with each other, they watch each other out, they appraise each other, they admire themselves or they condemn the others. The commentaries can be listened to between the tables, but they can be tracked all the way down to the Internet (currently a Tangolist site burns with opinions like: So and so's dancing, looks like a cowboy with hemorrhoids). Miguel Angel Zotto and Milena Plebs led the first changes at the beginning of the 90's. When
Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo, Apilado, marketing
I've read the article Chris is referring to, but it isn't saved in my email archives. You're saying you have no evidence it of it at all, Tom? I searched the archives of Clarin Newspaper from the year 1997 till today and found only one mention of Susana Miller . See the article below from Aug 8, 1999. An article which notably fails to corroborate the claim. -- Chris ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo, Apilado, marketing
I think I was clear. I'm saying that I have read it, but I do not have a copy on my computer. You can go find it if you like. On Jun 29, 2008, at 11:03 AM, Chris, UK wrote: I've read the article Chris is referring to, but it isn't saved in my email archives. You're saying you have no evidence it of it at all, Tom? I searched the archives of Clarin Newspaper from the year 1997 till today and found only one mention of Susana Miller . ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo, Apilado, marketing
Tom wrote: I think I was clear. I'm saying that I have read it, but I do not have a copy on my computer. Er, no you were not clear. Having no copy on your computer is one thing. But do you actually have a copy at all?? You can go find it if you like. Only if it exists... -- Chris ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo, Apilado, marketing
I, too, have read the article Tom refers to Quite how you or he can tell, since neither of you have identified it, goodness knows. However... great - please do post the text. just two months ago read an article in Tito Palumbo's magazine where she was clearly named and designated as someone who is preserving the milonguero style of dancing As are thousands. That does not make her one of the four most important influences on contemporary tango... I have had workshops with Susana in the US. I have danced successfully with a number of the milongueros in BsAs. So what?? I don't recall you being anything other than critical whenever a teacher is named on this list As a remedy for your extrememly selective memory Nancy, search this list for Chris, UK and Gavito. -- Chris ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] apilado, marketing
Now I searched the Clarin Newspaper archives from year 1997 till today. All magazines and supplements, text and headlines: There are only two mentions of Susana Miller one already reported in reference to Hurricane Katrina and another one, a brief reference to a congresman who takes tango lessons at El Beso and is mesmerized by the dancing of Susana Miller. (May 31st. 2007). Now two people, Nancy and Tom have read the note. I believe that they read it. I could not find it. Anyone can go to WWW.Clarin.Com and look in the archives under Busqueda. Weather she is mentioned or not is irrelevant. Nobody can dispute that Tete, Susana and Cacho Dante were some of the first instructors to teach the milonguero style of tango abroad. I saw Susana in Boston in the early 90ies. and Tete in Columbus Ohio, also in the early 90s. in a workshop organized by Janis (presently from Bs.As.) and John Devlin. I am from Villa Urquiza so, my style was the one danced there,But most of us can dance milonguero when we want to do it; or we need to do it due to lack of room. Best wishes, Sergio _ Watch “Cause Effect,” a show about real people making a real difference. Learn more. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_watchcause ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo, Apilado, marketing
Thanks, Chris. I have also had classes with Gavito. Nothing I heard from him contradicted what Susan Miller taught or vice versa. I guess, until someone can produce THE article, you will assume that both Tom and I are lying? You still have not told us what is your problem with Susana. Have you had lessons with her? --- On Sun, 6/29/08, Chris, UK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Sunday, June 29, 2008, 2:47 PM I, too, have read the article Tom refers to Quite how you or he can tell, since neither of you have identified it, goodness knows. Goodness has nothing to do with it. It is the article to which you refer - naming Susana Miller as one of the four most important influences on contemporary tango ( your quote) as published in Clarin. Neither Tom nor I are in doubt about which article we refer to. You, apparently, have difficulty comprehending what both of us write. As are thousands. That does not make her one of the four most important influences on contemporary tango... I have had workshops with Susana in the US. I have danced successfully with a number of the milongueros in BsAs. So what?? Have you? As a remedy for your extrememly selective memory Nancy, search this list for Chris, UK and Gavito. H! Mea culpa, mea culpa. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Nuevo, Apilado, marketing
This is all so edifying and anything but boring. I'm sure that Astrid is hanging on every post to this thread. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo, Apilado, marketing
Susana Miller ... http://www.tangodowntown.net/susanabio.html Clarin, the major Buenos Aires daily paper, called her one of the four most important influences on contemporary tango... and today the website has been changed to read: Clarin, the major Buenos Aires daily paper, cited her as one of the four most important influences on contemporary tango The article was dated 08.08.1999. I added this page to my site: http://www.tangodowntown.net/clarinarticle.html That article does not call or cite Susana Miller as one of the four most important influences on contemporary tango It doesn't call or cite her her anything. It mentions her once in a paragraph about Almagro style. -- Chris ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Apilado, marketing
Thank you Paul for the correct date of the Clarin article : La guerra de los roces (The war of the roces). Roces means rubbing, friction. A reference to the War of the roses (a dynastic English war 1455- 1487), playing with the words Roses and Roces. The article in Spanish appears if you specify the correct date August 8 1999. It does not appear if you just specify the year 1999. The paragraph in question (in clarin) says: A little later, Susana Miller began her classes at the traditional Club Almagro. Miller (of academic extraction) associated with Cacho Dante (a veteran aficionado) begun from her classes the propagation of which usually is known as the Almagro style - very similar to the typical style of the downtown night clubs of the 40's. Its less demanding requirements gave access even to those who were less fitted naturally, technically or sensitively. And it quickly put on the dance floor an enormous amount of new fans, generating a true leveling off of the dance. The web page cited by Chris says : Susana has probably put more people on the dance floors of Buenos Aires than any other single teacher. An article in Clarin, the major Buenos Aires daily paper, cited her as one of the four most important influences on contemporary tango, along with Miguel Angel Zotto, Gustavo Naveira and Gerardo Portalea. (Clarification citation added by Karen 6/29/2008.) . I guess everything is clear...finally...I hope. As I said before she did a good job propagating the milonguero style abroad. The marketing story was/is that it is the only possible way one can dance at the milongas in buenos Aires. So some people here in the USA started becoming upset by any one that used any other style at their milongas. Accusing them of not knowing how to navigate the floor, being dangerous, a continuous annoyance difficult to endure. Some started making the floor very small so that they could imitate the lack of space present in the crowded milongas of Buenos Aires. But all this is another story. Have a nice weekend, (what is left of it), Sergio _ Windows Live Hotmail is giving away Zunes. Enter for your chance to win. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/ZuneADay/?locale=en-USocid=TXT_TAGLM_Mobile_Zune_V3 ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo, Apilado, marketing
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: tango-l@mit.edu Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 10:33:20 -0600 Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo, Apilado, marketing By Irene Amuchastegui and Laura Falcoff Clarin NespaperSunday, August 8, 1999 NEW STYLES OF DANCE GENERATE CONFRONTATIONS AND POLEMICS BETWEEN MILONGUEROS What is being favored today on the dance floor? If it is what can be observed with more frequency, one would say that three tendencies are disputing for supremacy: the Urquiza style, the Almagro style and the Naveira style, as the fans know them, - implying a neighborhood, a club and a teacher. I know what Almagro (milonguero) style tango is because that is what I have studied most recently and what I now dance. I never thought milonguero style had to be danced using short steps. It is a high floor density that causes short steps, so it is not dictated by the style. I have never been clear on the real difference between milonguero style and Urquiza style. Both are danced in close embrace, right? I sometimes get the expression 'estilo Villa Urquiza' is just another marketing tool (just as is 'estilo milonguero'). What is it that characterizes Urquiza style? I don't think it is long steps. I haven't been to Buenos Aires, but I didn't think the Naveira (nuevo) style is danced in the milongas because it takes up too much space. (Maybe this is the style of tango where the long steps are really used.) They are not difficult to distinguish. Make yourself comfortable on a stool by the bar and you will see them move over the waxed surface: a couple that advances with long steps, touching the floor as if they are wearing gloves on their feet (Urquiza), is followed by other couple closely embraced and whose short steps adjust synchronously to the beat (Almagro), and behind, a third couple that unfolds all the imaginable variety of figures which the previous couples can do without (Naveira). Adding to that, there will be another couple schooled in the style of Antonio Todaro and belonging to an elite with technical formation, that alternates between the social dancing at the milongas and the professional stage performances. Felix _ The other season of giving begins 6/24/08. Check out the i’m Talkathon. http://www.imtalkathon.com?source=TXT_EML_WLH_SeasonOfGiving ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Closing remarks on the Apilado, marketing thread
Sergio and Chris Thank you for the genuine effort to keep the discussion coherent, civilized, and even toned. I was compelled to write the initial posting after disheartening experiences on past milongas. In the past two years I have encountered some hostility from folks claiming that Apilado style is the only way to dance tango. While visiting a milonga for the first time in a certain mid-west city I was approached by one of the milonga organizer and literally belittle for not adhering to a strict closed embraced tango dance. In yet a second mid-western city, a dancer from Atlanta, Georgia refused to step on the dance floor with me unless I danced strictly close embrace! In both instances I conformed (in sadness) with the local requirements. On a very recent trip to Boston I had an incredibly pleasant time on the dance floor. Pamela and her husband (MIT tango instructors) were very hospitable and courteous. I also had the opportunity to dance with (two local dancers) Gina Mora and Debbi Hobson ... marvelous dancers... neither imposing a particular dance form. I believe our learning process is not limited to dancing alone. Students will learn much more than just steps from instructors. It would be wonderful if instructors would act more responsibly placing their marketing needs in a secondary place to teaching tolerance and respect to all styles. And Nancy in regards to your postings on Susna Miller... No one attacked her reputation ... its sad when peoples ideas and opinions are purposefully twisted and misrepresented as personal attacks. It is responses like yours that promote disruption and flames in online environments. Amaury --- On Sun, 6/29/08, Sergio Vandekier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Sergio Vandekier [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Tango-L] Apilado, marketing To: Tango-L List tango-l@mit.edu Date: Sunday, June 29, 2008, 6:12 PM Thank you Paul for the correct date of the Clarin article : La guerra de los roces (The war of the roces). Roces means rubbing, friction. A reference to the War of the roses (a dynastic English war 1455- 1487), playing with the words Roses and Roces. The article in Spanish appears if you specify the correct date August 8 1999. It does not appear if you just specify the year 1999. The paragraph in question (in clarin) says: A little later, Susana Miller began her classes at the traditional Club Almagro. Miller (of academic extraction) associated with Cacho Dante (a veteran aficionado) begun from her classes the propagation of which usually is known as the Almagro style - very similar to the typical style of the downtown night clubs of the 40's. Its less demanding requirements gave access even to those who were less fitted naturally, technically or sensitively. And it quickly put on the dance floor an enormous amount of new fans, generating a true leveling off of the dance. The web page cited by Chris says : Susana has probably put more people on the dance floors of Buenos Aires than any other single teacher. An article in Clarin, the major Buenos Aires daily paper, cited her as one of the four most important influences on contemporary tango, along with Miguel Angel Zotto, Gustavo Naveira and Gerardo Portalea. (Clarification citation added by Karen 6/29/2008.) . I guess everything is clear...finally...I hope. As I said before she did a good job propagating the milonguero style abroad. The marketing story was/is that it is the only possible way one can dance at the milongas in buenos Aires. So some people here in the USA started becoming upset by any one that used any other style at their milongas. Accusing them of not knowing how to navigate the floor, being dangerous, a continuous annoyance difficult to endure. Some started making the floor very small so that they could imitate the lack of space present in the crowded milongas of Buenos Aires. But all this is another story. Have a nice weekend, (what is left of it), Sergio _ Windows Live Hotmail is giving away Zunes. Enter for your chance to win. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/ZuneADay/?locale=en-USocid=TXT_TAGLM_Mobile_Zune_V3 ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Estilo Villa Urquiza
What is Villa Urquiza? See http://nastynest.blogspot.com/2007/11/villa-urquiza-tango-style.html The Villa urquiza Style, uses an elastic embrace. Usually close, but it may have variable light if required to do certain figures. It is danced in an elegant way, with long steps, most dancers step toe first but many step heel first, and some step in both ways. Everybody walks close to the floor. It is an style that adapts itself to social dancing or to exhibition or stage because uses all the elements that tango offers. Boleos, Amagues, sacadas, calesitas, cuchillas, dibujos, rulos, enrosques, saltos, chilenas, puentes, traspie, contrapaso, mordida, agujas, picadas, cambios, etc, etc,. The dance is adjusted to the partner, the music, the place, the available space, the mood of the moment. The skill and the age of the dancers. Here you have some samples of simple dancing and also more elaborated dancing in villa Urquiza. Villa Urquiza Style http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7HmCGjYRYE Gerardo Portalea y Susana http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pORg6wxeV6Qfeature=related Mariano y Cosima http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qqovx7d2nfsfeature=related Roberto Leiva y maricel Gomez http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wlk8wGZQX7cfeature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGTQ6pBYRskfeature=related Alberto y Ester http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbtAx1qrQqEfeature=related Roberto Leiva y Natacha Poberaj http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAZ9_ywdIhQ Finito http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wlk8wGZQX7cfeature=related Best regards, Sergio From Villa Urquiza PS. I grew up with the nephews of Gerardo Portalea. They still live in the neighborhood. I learned a lot from Nito and from Lampazo. _ Enter the Zune-A-Day Giveaway for your chance to win — day after day after day http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/ZuneADay/?locale=en-USocid=TXT_TAGLM_Mobile_Zune_V1 ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Estilo Villa Urquiza
Sergio; Por favor! y gracias!! :-) Real tango is so beautiful ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
