[Tango-L] Example of Nuevo dancing to the music. Was (no subject).
Brick wrote (about Homer and Christine's video): > The dance goes back and forth between close embrace and "neuvo," so > view it till at least a minute before you tell me it is not "nuevo." I don't understand why people use the term "close embrace" as an opposite of "tango nuevo". Supposed proponents of tango nuevo dance in a close embrace as well as an open embrace. Example (Chicho/Juana): http://youtube.com/watch?v=bJEGyw_kRUI Is opening the embrace what makes something "tango nuevo"? What about this video of Flaco Dany and Silvina Vals? They open up a lot to do turns. Is their dancing "nuevo"? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KhBuOwJPcU What about Pupy Castello -- is he tango nuevo? I guess that means "nuevo" was invented a long long time ago. http://youtube.com/watch?v=2OxyYHZTcUI ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] (no subject)
Chrisjj wrote: > I don't recall one convincing example of nuevo dancing from the music. Chicho/Eugenia to El Recodo - you might not like it, but it's on the music. And I think most people would agree with calling this couple's dance style "tango nuevo". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dZNG5IlvQw > The examples of nuevo that most avoid offending the music are those > that most avoid the music e.g. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=w-RqtiMZZpI > . But, why do you call this piece "tango nuevo"? I would call it modern dance utilizing material from tango. Calling it tango dancing of any type is like calling Appalachian Spring folk music. (I'm not saying the piece merits comparison to Copland.) Brigitta Winkler, by the way, is known in the U.S. for teaching on the "milonguero style" circuit. So you might as well call it "tango milonguero". > If anyone has a video of David's "decent Nuevo leads who listen to > and interpret the music, just as do dancers of all stripe" then, > please, let us all see it. Really, Chris, I wonder what people think of when they refer to "tango nuevo". I get the feeling that in some places dancers are besieged by arrogant bands of wild music-ignoring acrobats, and they call them "nuevos". ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Nuevo lead and follow and repressed teaching
> What people think of as "nuevo" isn't really entirely new. Perhaps we should some up with a term other than > "nuevo" like "post-nuevo" (sort of like modern architecture was in the 1940's and then came post-modern). They movement vocabulary associated with tango nuevo dancing is not really new at all. The main thing that separates what people now are calling "nuevo" from what people are calling "traditional" is that more things are permitted in nuevo. Dress code, embrace code, and feet on the floor code are all subverted in tango nuevo. As has been mentioned before many times, the main things that are transmitted by so-called "tango nuevo" teachers are not so much the figures as the teaching methods and approaches to practicing. ( I think one of the clearest posts on this ambiguous term called "tango nuevo" is by Tom Stermitz : http://pythia.uoregon.edu/~llynch/Tango-L/2005/msg00035.html ) I agree that "tango nuevo" is a misleading name. For a descriptive purpose, I think it is more accurate to label styles according to place (e.g., ballroom/salon, street/canyengue, club, suburban/orilla, west coast) or according to originator/propagator (Susana Miller, Fabian Salas). To label types of dancing as the traditional and the new tends to be reductive and subjective. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Chris - decent Nuevo leads
Although I am not a fan of nuevo tango, the videos cited are both Homer and Christine Ladas of San Francisco, and even this traditionalist old lady can tell my fellow Nuevo bashers that they dance quite simply and beautifully in line of dance at traditional milongas. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >>I don't recall one convincing example of nuevo dancing from the music. >>If anyone has a video of David's "decent Nuevo leads who listen to and >>interpret the music, just as do dancers of all stripe" then, please, let >>us all see it. >> >> > >Here's a video of a well known Bay Area couple who dance and teach Nuevo as >well as >classical tango. Le gusta? > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7250cB392g > > >___ >Tango-L mailing list >Tango-L@mit.edu >http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > > > > ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo lead and follow and repressed teaching
"My point is that when women have the bodywork and technique, then they can be lead into a colgada or volcada without having been taught the step. However, getting to that point requires a lot of work" I am / was very sure that this was true regarding cose embrace / apilado. Now, as I watch people, who have paired off, practice the same "nuevo" / stage / fantasia "moves" over and over again. I'm not so sure. I never see then practicing "bodywork and technique". And they never seem to "practice" these movements with anyone other than "their" partner, or a very small subset of people. The problem is, in developing bodywork and technique, it is almost certain that they will encounter colgadas and / or volcadas repeatedly. And, chances are that they will do so with the same individual, many, many times. Now, I'm quite a bit less certain what to think. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo lead and follow and repressed teaching
You haven't seen some of these women dance. One was an actual danger on the dance floor with this uncontrollable leg that just had to do a sweep at every turn. But even the experienced guys (including the pickiest guy in our community) still danced with her because she was young and blond. Thank goodness she went away for the summer. But that's not my point in this thread. My point is that when women have the bodywork and technique, then they can be lead into a colgada or volcada without having been taught the step. However, getting to that point requires a lot of work, but achieving it can enable discoveries that one thinks of as "nuevo" (as opposed to someone giving you directions to create something). And if these discoveries occur independently in more than one place, then wouldn't this be a suggestion of an organic technique? I think these discoveries may have occurred years ago but that exploring these techniques were not encouraged. In fact, they were probably put down because "so-and-so taught that it this way, so this other way must not be right". Until someone finally came along and said "this is a valid way of doing such-and-such". What people think of as "nuevo" isn't really entirely new. Perhaps we should some up with a term other than "nuevo" like "post-nuevo" (sort of like modern architecture was in the 1940's and then came post-modern). Trini de Pittsburgh --- On Mon, 7/28/08, Bruce Stephens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Bruce Stephens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo lead and follow and repressed teaching > To: "Tango-L" > Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 1:15 PM > "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > [...] > > > But the newer women still don't go. They think > that because they > > know some steps, they don't need to take the > lessons where they can > > really work on their technique. > > Maybe they don't need to go to classes/lessons. Maybe > they're already > enjoying dancing. > > And, of course, perhaps they perceive that the available > classes/lessons wouldn't be worth their while for > whatever reason, so > even if they *want* to learn more, they don't see a > time/cost-efficient way to do so. > > [...] > > ___ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Chris - decent Nuevo leads
>I don't recall one convincing example of nuevo dancing from the music. >If anyone has a video of David's "decent Nuevo leads who listen to and >interpret the music, just as do dancers of all stripe" then, please, let >us all see it. Here's a video of a well known Bay Area couple who dance and teach Nuevo as well as classical tango. Le gusta? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7250cB392g ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Canadian Tango Film Festival
Hi Melina, This may be the link you are looking for.. mario http://www.bluemoon.tangoafficionado.com/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo lead and follow and repressed teaching
"Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: [...] > But the newer women still don't go. They think that because they > know some steps, they don't need to take the lessons where they can > really work on their technique. Maybe they don't need to go to classes/lessons. Maybe they're already enjoying dancing. And, of course, perhaps they perceive that the available classes/lessons wouldn't be worth their while for whatever reason, so even if they *want* to learn more, they don't see a time/cost-efficient way to do so. [...] ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Example of Nuevo dancing to the music. Was (no subject).
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 18:11 +0100 (BST) From: "Chris, UK" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] (no subject) >>I don't recall one convincing example of nuevo dancing from the music.<< How about this? http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=5719494 ( http://tinyurl.com/5vw4fj if that wraps ) It looks pretty musical to me. The dance goes back and forth between close embrace and "neuvo," so view it till at least a minute before you tell me it is not "nuevo." You might also find the "a colgada odyessy" video on that page either interesting or offensive. And yes, there are some mistakes. The dances weren't performances per se, but rather demonstrations of concepts taught in the preceding workshops. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo lead and follow and repressed teaching
exactly
On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 1:15 PM, Astrid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The idea is to find an instructor who is able to teach you what you need to
> know. Tango is not really about where you put your legs, the lead comes
> first, the legs follow that.
>
>
> Niki Papapetrou wrote:
>
>> from my own personal experience, I stopped taking classes in my home town
>> because the classes were all about STEPS ('put your left leg here, and then
>> your right leg there...' ) I could just as easily practice technique in a
>> milonga or in my own living room, without the 'pleasure ' of being
>> manhandled by some guy who was simply trying to get his feet in the right
>> spot, without it even crossing his, or the instructor's, mind that he
>> actually needed to learn how to LEAD.
>>
>
>
--
Yours in dance dementia,
Niki
( http://tangotrails.blogspot.com )
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Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo lead and follow and repressed teaching
The idea is to find an instructor who is able to teach you what you need
to know. Tango is not really about where you put your legs, the lead
comes first, the legs follow that.
Niki Papapetrou wrote:
> from my own personal experience, I stopped taking classes in my home
> town because the classes were all about STEPS ('put your left leg
> here, and then your right leg there...' ) I could just as easily
> practice technique in a milonga or in my own living room, without the
> 'pleasure ' of being manhandled by some guy who was simply trying to
> get his feet in the right spot, without it even crossing his, or the
> instructor's, mind that he actually needed to learn how to LEAD.
>
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Re: [Tango-L] (no subject)
> every Neuvo element (not figure!) can, and should > be, used to help interpret the music. We've seen countless great video examples e.g. on youtube of real tango dancing that is truly from the music. I don't recall one convincing example of nuevo dancing from the music. The examples of nuevo that most avoid offending the music are those that most avoid the music e.g. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=w-RqtiMZZpI . If anyone has a video of David's "decent Nuevo leads who listen to and interpret the music, just as do dancers of all stripe" then, please, let us all see it. -- Chris ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Gratuitous insults and "social" tango
That last paragraph should say "maybe because tango dancers are much MORE likely to come into tango as their first dance rather than from other ballroom experience where these are more frequently taught." Sorry-- Carol Shepherd wrote: > To me "social dancing" is, simply, any partner dance that is not > choreographed and/or for competition. > > There are those who understand "social dancing" to customarily imply > dancing around with multiple partners in one evening. For some of > those, the intimacy of tango may be too much for more than the one > partner they regularly dance with. And so they may say they do not like > to "social dance" or that social dancing to any style of tango is > inappropriate. > > Many on here are inappropriately using the word "social" (as in "nuevo > is not a social dance") when they really should be using structural > terminology and dance etiquette concepts to make these statements, such > as traveling dance vs. slot or stationary dance, line of dance errors, > and bad floorcraft. Examples of line of dance errors and bad floorcraft: > > --crossing a traveling line of dance, blocking a traveling line of > dance, going too fast or slow or changing abruptly with no warning > > (specifically in tango: stopping your traveling dance to execute several > measures of nuevo in place, thereby causing couples behind you to > collide like dominos. Can we stop this PLEASE?) > > --leading your partner into another couple without looking in your > 'blind spot,' failing to contract one's dance space to accommodate > others on a crowded floor > > It is very common in a small dance floor for a traveling dance to not > coexist well with a stationary dance. Most forms of nuevo are > predominantly stationary and milonguero is a traveling dance with a line > of dance. The same structural conflict exists where some dancers are > doing quickstep and others are doing lindy hop. AFAIK there is no good > way to deal with this on a very small floor other than the DJ announcing > a set of one or the other and trying to make everyone happy some of the > time. > > The social convention in a larger dance floor that accommodates both > structures, is for the traveling dance to progress around the outside > and the stationary dance to be limited to the inside with a safe margin > between them. (Doh!) > > It never ceases to AMAZE me that the non-traveling dancers will plant > themselves directly in the line of dance. They just haven't been told > how to behave. > > Any dance is a 'social' dance if the dancers are aware of and courteous > to others and obey basic dance etiquette rules. And any dancer is > 'anti-social' in being unaware by selfishly ignoring other dancers and > their needs. > > Sorry folks, but it's my experience that tango dancers on average know > the least of all dancers in every style I do about standard dance > etiquette and floorcraft. Maybe because tango dancers are much less > likely to come into tango as their first dance rather than from other > ballroom experience where these are more frequently taught. But I also > think that floorcraft and etiquette are rarely taught in damce. I > myself cannot recall any tango class where the basic concepts of > floorcraft and etiquette were presented and practiced. (As opposed to > practicing the structural characteristics such as the 'chairs in the > center' line-of-dance type of exercise.) > > > David Thorn wrote: Which I suspect is why many people enjoy Nuevo. No need to worry about that pesky walk :-) >> >> >> I know that there is a smiley face at the end of this statement, but >> this nevertheless seems to me >> a rather gratuitously insulting remark, creating more heat than light, >> and perhaps reflecting significant >> ignorance on the part of the author. I love the pesky walk in close >> embrace. I love the joy of the open, more >> intellectual connection that exists in Nuevo. What is the point of >> insulting the Nuevo dancers? >> >> And while I'm bitching, I often fail to understand the use of the word >> "social" in the context of Tango. To me, social >> dance is simply that which can be danced socially. Much of what comes >> under attack here as "not social" can be >> easily danced in a social environment IF there is room on the dance >> floor, and IF the lead is good, and IF the follow >> has the requisite skill and fitness. But lack of any of these doesn't >> make the style "not social", it simply means that >> the floor is too crowded or that the lead or follow isn't up to his / >> her job. >> >> >> Cheers, David >> >> _ >> With Windows Live for mobile, your contacts travel with you. >> http://www.windowslive.com/mobile/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_mobile_072008 >> >> >> ___ >> Tango-L mailing list >> Tango-L@mit.edu >> http://mai
Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo lead and follow and repressed teaching
from my own personal experience, I stopped taking classes in my home town
because the classes were all about STEPS ('put your left leg here, and then
your right leg there...' ) I could just as easily practice technique in a
milonga or in my own living room, without the 'pleasure ' of being
manhandled by some guy who was simply trying to get his feet in the right
spot, without it even crossing his, or the instructor's, mind that he
actually needed to learn how to LEAD.
On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 12:33 PM, Astrid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jack Dylan wrote:
> If a man is really interested in tango, he's going to dance with women
> who are
> > interested enough to take some classes and are actually learning how to
> dance
> > properly and are not just stumbling around while hanging on to a man's
> neck.
> > But, like I say, maybe I'm just too cynical and I might be completely
> wrong - but
> > I don't think so :)
> I don't think, you are wrong, Jack, I wish you were...
> Reminds me: couple of weeks ago I went to a milonga I do not usually
> attend, and there were some middle aged men I know from other places but
> don't dance with much and they had a young woman at their table... she
> was dressed in a light blue ballroom gown and did not have a clue about
> tango, and they were both fussing over her, taking turns in taking her
> out on the dance floor where she kept wobbling in her shoes and
> stumbling over her own feet, with her toes turned inward and losing her
> balance at every other step as she did not know how to follow nor seemed
> to know a single tango step.
> I kept wondering what a big ego boost this must be for those guys, who
> probably looked like God's gift to dance to a woman like that, and they
> got their hands on her too...
> ___
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> Tango-L@mit.edu
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>
--
Yours in dance dementia,
Niki
( http://tangotrails.blogspot.com )
___
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Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo lead and follow and repressed teaching
Jack Dylan wrote: If a man is really interested in tango, he's going to dance with women who are > interested enough to take some classes and are actually learning how to dance > properly and are not just stumbling around while hanging on to a man's neck. > But, like I say, maybe I'm just too cynical and I might be completely wrong - > but > I don't think so :) I don't think, you are wrong, Jack, I wish you were... Reminds me: couple of weeks ago I went to a milonga I do not usually attend, and there were some middle aged men I know from other places but don't dance with much and they had a young woman at their table... she was dressed in a light blue ballroom gown and did not have a clue about tango, and they were both fussing over her, taking turns in taking her out on the dance floor where she kept wobbling in her shoes and stumbling over her own feet, with her toes turned inward and losing her balance at every other step as she did not know how to follow nor seemed to know a single tango step. I kept wondering what a big ego boost this must be for those guys, who probably looked like God's gift to dance to a woman like that, and they got their hands on her too... ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo lead and follow and repressed teaching
--- On Mon, 7/28/08, Jack Dylan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I know exactly what you're talking about and maybe > I'm too cynical but I don't think the guys who dance with women who don't > take classes are looking for feedback on their tango. I suspect their motives > lie elsewhere. o_O Oh, no. The young ones will get dances, regardless, even by the top dancers here. Most of the men here are very good about taking classes, workshops, and attending the practicas. They're also good about encouraging the women to go to the practicas and take classes. But the newer women still don't go. They think that because they know some steps, they don't need to take the lessons where they can really work on their technique. Before, the new women would at least attend some regular classes before stopping. But these new women aren't taking anything. And I feel the problems cropping up in the men when I dance with them. Have to figure out what to do about that. Trini de Pittsburgh ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo lead and follow and repressed teaching
Trini, I know exactly what you're talking about and maybe I'm too cynical but I don't think the guys who dance with women who don't take classes are looking for feedback on their tango. I suspect their motives lie elsewhere. o_O If a man is really interested in tango, he's going to dance with women who are interested enough to take some classes and are actually learning how to dance properly and are not just stumbling around while hanging on to a man's neck. But, like I say, maybe I'm just too cynical and I might be completely wrong - but I don't think so :-) Jack - Original Message > From: Trini y Sean (PATangoS) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > What I have noticed in our community recently is that the newer women are not > taking classes but they are still getting danced with. So the women may get > the > step but they are not developing the technique and bodywork needed for the > moves > to develop naturally. So they are confusing pattern recognition with > following. Which means the intermediate men don't get the feedback that they > really need. > This is a new phase for our community, so we'll see how everything turns out. > > Trini de Pittsburgh ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
