[Tango-L] Genre Bender
I simply had to stop lurking after viewing these last few posts. To you so called traditionalists, I say - after the first couple danced a Tango in Argentina, everyone who followed and added or changed the way a step was done should technically be called Nuevo, since they had altered the accepted dance step done to that point. The same with the musicians. To me all dances should be defined by the techniques employed and if you think that Argentine Tango is a totally unique way of dancing, think again. You will see theft from many different dance styles encorporated into Tango. If you want to pigeon hole Argentine Tango, and limit the way it should be performed, then call it a folk dance and by doing that you will be able to say if it isn't danced in a very particular way it is not Tango. Every dance genre changes, dance is as much an interpretation as it is a style. Personally I prefer to define a dance by the basic technique employed. As for how to dance Tango at a milo! nga, the rules have been there long before I took my first dance step in 1951. They were common sense rules of traffic control, they were not invented by Argentine Tango dancers per se. I have often felt that A.T. was a result of people wanting to dance to music more commonly known as Foxtrot or Waltz, or Two Step or whatever, but didn't actually know the steps, so improvised, hence inventing Argentine Tango. No one can really prove the origin of the dance or the music definitively, it just evolved. I also believe if it is a worthwhile dance style it will continue to evolve in style, while hopefully allowing the heart of the dance, which is the feelings it evokes when the emotions of the music and the motions of the bodies combine well. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Review of Ensemble Hyperion at Brussels Tango Festival
Hi Shahrukh, I second your opinion. I attended the first four days of the festival, and I thought the musicians on Friday and Saturday night were excellent, and in particular Hyperion and Alfredo Marcucci. Hyperion also performed a free concert at the Grand Place (or Central Square) of Brussels the next evening, but I unfortunately missed it. What did you think about the festival organization and the level of performances? It was my first proper tango festival (having danced for 2 years mostly in Western Europe). Abrazos Hippy On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Shahrukh Merchant shahr...@shahrukhmerchant.com wrote: By a quirk of fate (and OK, some personal schedule manipulation on my part :-)), I happened to be at the Brussels Tango Festival, which just ended yesterday. I may (or not ... since it would take a while to write ...) make the time to post some observations on the festival, but until then, I feel I really need to mention the featured orchestra of the festival, ENSEMBLE HYPERION -- see their website at www.ensemblehyperion.com (mostly in Italian). (They are not to be confused with the similarly named Hyperion Ensemble, which is a chamber music ensemble out of Salzburg.) Undoubtedly, they are well-known to European festival goers, but I had never heard them (nor, I admit, of them). They are based out of Italy and are simply one of the best Tango orchestras I have ever danced to (and sacrilege though it may be to say, better than most out of Buenos Aires, at least the ones that play at Milongas there)! (Those who know me know that I do not make superlative recommendations like this lightly, if at all.) Their actually play SEVERAL golden-era orchestras convincingly (especially Pugliese, but Di Sarli and Donato as well, to name just a few), and are excellent musicians. The ensemble comprised one bandoneon (Alfredo Marcucci, who is really excellent and a passionate player), two violins, piano, guitar, transverse flute and bass. Franco Luciani joined in on some pieces with harmonica (gives Hugo Diaz a run for his money ...). They did NOT have a vocalist (which admittedly would be a very tricky addition--perhaps they are smart in not including one), but I did not really miss that since the DJ'ed music had an abundance of the classic vocals. I would suggest that North American and Asian Tango organizers consider inviting them, or coordinate amongst each other (okay, so I'm an idealist :-)) so they can justify a North American or Asian regional tour. Also, while I have not heard any of their recordings on CD, Tango DJs may wish to review their recordings to add to the very thinly populated genre of convincing modern recordings of classic-era arrangements. Shahrukh ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Bajafondo Review
Note to all AT organizers and dancers: When you hear of any sort of AT related concert or artist coming to your town, please contact the artist or venue to see if there will be a milonga connected with the event. If not, then organize one, and get ahold of the artists and invite them. Reason: sometimes colleges/universities, Art Museums or other groups who have nothing to do with AT, do bring artists in. And these groups do not have any connection with the local AT promoters. If nothing is coordinated, then the local AT community misses a great opportunity for a great after concert milonga and mixing with the stars. ** A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220814837x1201410725/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26 hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooterNO62) ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] The Truth About Tango Nuevo
Ron of Central Illinois writes Nuevo, although having historical roots in tango and often danced to tango music (often not) is a different dance from tango. Typically the feet are not maintained on the floor and some movements do not follow the line of dance and many challenge the personal space of others on the dance floor. Uh, no. Failing to follow the line of dance except in emergencies and imposing on other peoples space isn't nuevo anything. It's being a selfish, idiotic ass-hole. As for nuevo tango being about not keeping your feet on the floor, traditional tango has had elevados of many kinds since at least the 1920s when El Cachafaz according to some sources invented the boleo. Toe taps (golpes and golpecitos) have also been around a long time. Kicks of various kinds, such as amagues, also have a long history. Caricias (usually the woman caressing the man's leg or foot) are at least 25 years old. In show tango the caricia is very exaggerated, but tiny ones are easily done in social dance. Rod McRae writes after the first couple danced a Tango in Argentina, everyone who followed and added or changed the way a step was done should technically be called Nuevo Exactly right, but there's no technically about it. Nuevo simply means new. As I said in an earlier post there's always some new nuevo. What some label nuevo arose from what Gustavo Naveira and Fabian Salas called their Tango Study Group in the 1990s. They were concerned that some of the techniques of milongueros was dying with them. So they came up with a way of describing these peoples figures in the most basic way possible, hoping to write the milonguero's techniques down and so preserve them. Here's a brief summary. Walking steps use only one foot at a time, and there are limited ways to take a step. With your right foot you can step forward or back, to the side, or to the side crossing the free left foot either in front or back of your right foot. That's five steps, plus five more for the opposite foot. This is true for someone walking alone. Salas and Naveira also describe relation between two people dancing together. I've always thought the words they used for this were unclear, and I'm not sure that the relations they focus on are important. I won't even bother trying to describe them. Salas and Naveira (who have never labeled their dancing as nuevo) aren't the only tango dancers to try to break tango figures down into the most basic parts. In fact, I'd bet that a lot of the people in this forum have done so. I certainly have. Once you analyze figures you begin to see that you can make new figures out of the parts. One way is to vary old figures. Ochos, for instance, are made of two steps which includes 180-degree pivots. Why not try pivots of less than that? These are called under-turned ochos or zig-zags. Or three-quarter-turn (270-degree) pivots or full-turn (360-degree) pivots. These are sometimes called over-turned ochos. And you can make new figures by combining parts from two different figures. Such as half of a forward ocho with half of a backward ocho. Tango seems always to have been more concerned with improvisation than with robotic duplication of frozen in stone figures invented by someone else long ago. Thus we will always have nuevo movements. Unless, that is, we give in to the self-appointed tango police trying to make the rest of us conform to THEIR idea of tango. Larry de Los Angeles ( novelette Lady Death add to http://ShapechangerTales.com ) Become a medical transcriptionist at home, at your own pace. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsIBaDSJioa9YfGSf0WkcqGkAAuY0WEY3i3mZ5GR4GtgxYkyRuIQsY/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] The Fallacy of the Rare being Commonplace
On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 10:36 AM, larry...@juno.com larry...@juno.com wrote: Ron of Central Illinois writes Nuevo, although having historical roots in tango and often danced to tango music (often not) is a different dance from tango. Typically the feet are not maintained on the floor and some movements do not follow the line of dance and many challenge the personal space of others on the dance floor. Uh, no. Failing to follow the line of dance except in emergencies and imposing on other peoples space isn't nuevo anything. It's being a selfish, idiotic ass-hole. As for nuevo tango being about not keeping your feet on the floor, traditional tango has had elevados of many kinds since at least the 1920s when El Cachafaz according to some sources invented the boleo. Toe taps (golpes and golpecitos) have also been around a long time. Kicks of various kinds, such as amagues, also have a long history. Caricias (usually the woman caressing the man's leg or foot) are at least 25 years old. In show tango the caricia is very exaggerated, but tiny ones are easily done in social dance. Porten~os have long known the difference between tango for social dancing and tango for exhibition. The social customs of the milongas are such that extending your movements into the space of other dancers on the social dance floor is rude and, in excess, could lead to a warning or in extreme cases, expulsion from a milonga. Nuevo, by its very nature of exploring movement possibilities, including extension of and even breaking of the embrace, reorientation of body position such that even the rear of one dancer can face the front of the partner (relish that image), the exploration of the space in between the legs and around the body of the partner are not only invasive of the space of other dancers on the floor, but they are disruptive to fluid forward movement of the line-of-dance. As to some remaining elements such as mini-volcadas and mini-colgadas that can be executed within restricted space, the amusement park whee!! component that disrupts shared balance is counter-conducive to a stable and relaxed shared connection that is prized by social tango dancers in Buenos Aires. I have not seen these elements used for dancers in the milongas of Buenos Aires, but that and historical accounts of questionable accuracy do not preclude their existence. On the same grounds, one cannot dismiss reported sightings of the Loch Ness Monster. Keeping feet on the floor and within the space of you and your partner is characteristic of the Tango de Salon danced in the milongas of Buenos Aires. One can search for and occasionally find amagues and rarely foot or leg touches, although this is neither characteristic of most dancers nor of the repertoire of movements of dancers who use them. To use adornments to excess characterizes one as dancing for the audience rather than dancing for your partner and is frowned upon. Excessive movement (the stuff people clap at during YouTube videos of demos) is disruptive to partner connection. There is a danger is reporting a sighting of something at a Buenos Aires milonga (assuming it was even seen there as opposed to reports of historical events) and then using that as a justification of social dancing. I remember on one trip to Paris I saw a young couple in a park with green-dyed hair. I could have reported that to someone back in the US as 'I saw people (plural) in Paris with green hair, which could have been reported by the listener to the next person as People in Paris have green hair, which could then be adopted by the Green Hair Group as a justification for dyeing their hair green, i.e., This is what people do in Paris. A major problem with what is advertised as 'tango' outside Argentina is that it is a Green Hair Phenomenon. Nuevo is danced in a handful of practicas, with an over-representation of tourists relative to porten~os compared to the 100+ milongas in Buenos Aires. So the representation of nuevo as social Argentine tango, either implicitly or explicitly, is a highly biased representation of the social tango danced in the milonas of Buenos Aires and this is false, or at the very least biased advertising. This portrayal of the rare as commonplace is deceptive, yet it has captured the attention of dancers outside Argentina to the degree that dancing at milongas outside Argentina today bears a much greater resemblance to Villa Malcolm and Practica X, in existence for a decade or less, than the Tango de Salon danced in over 100 milongas per week that has maintained basic characteristics of feet on the floor and adherence to the line of dnace that have existed for over 6 decades. Ron ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] The Truth About Tango Nuevo
larrynla wrote: A lot of stuff. Bravo and thank you. [rant] If we are not messing with other dancers or the line of dance, etc., what is wrong if we express our feelings as we wish through our dance? Is Tango an art form or is it merely a stilted, codified and over prescribed set of step patterns, as bad as the worst excesses that one might find in the ballroom world? Does it diminish you to let me dance tango as I wish? I think that it is the self appointed purists who fail to dance tango, and should rename their dance to Codified Tango. Larry and Rod both made the point that the by the time the second tango dancer hit the floor, tango had become Nuevo and it has remained so ever since. If you would like to copyright the term 'Tango', you are welcome to try. In the meantime, the word, and the dance, belongs to the world. [/rant] David _ Rediscover Hotmail®: Get e-mail storage that grows with you. http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Storage1_042009 ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] The Truth About Tango Nuevo
This rant is not new. This justification is not new. Here is my question: Who decides if you are messing with the other dancers or the line of dance? It isn't just physical contact that is bothersome. The whole rhythm of the pista can be thrown off by very slow volcadas or high boleos. I can always tell when there is a thoughtless dancer behind me because my partner's musicality is thrown off trying to protect me from abrupt stops or backsteps or leader boleos. And yet TL is completely oblivious to what is going on behind him. --- David Thorn thorn-ins...@hotmail.com wrote: larrynla wrote: A lot of stuff. Bravo and thank you. [rant] If we are not messing with other dancers or the line of dance, etc., what is wrong if we express our feelings as we wish through our dance? Is Tango an art form or is it merely a stilted, codified and over prescribed set of step patterns, as bad as the worst excesses that one might find in the ballroom world? Does it diminish you to let me dance tango as I wish? I think that it is the self appointed purists who fail to dance tango, and should rename their dance to Codified Tango. Larry and Rod both made the point that the by the time the second tango dancer hit the floor, tango had become Nuevo and it has remained so ever since. If you would like to copyright the term 'Tango', you are welcome to try. In the meantime, the word, and the dance, belongs to the world. [/rant] David _ Rediscover Hotmail®: Get e-mail storage that grows with you. http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Storage1_042009 ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] The Truth About Tango Nuevo
NANCY wrote: Here is my question: Who decides if you are messing with the other dancers or the line of dance? Indeed. That is THE question. If I am dancing simple close embrace but insist on pushing the couple ahead of me, I am messing with the line of dance. If I am dancing simple close embrace but am dawdling so as to create a large gap ahead of me and a pile up behind be, I am messing with the line of dance. If I am keeping my distance, neither pushing nor dawdling, and I am dancing entirely on my floor tile at any given instant, why should you care whether I am doing a series of rock steps waiting for traffic to clear, or a colgada waiting for traffic to clear? If traffic is moving at a good clip, why should you care whether I am walking in a conventional close embrace or, using Ron's example, Butt to Front? In my opinion, rude behavior on the dance floor is rude behavior, and considerate behavior is considerate behavior. I realize that this is not a new rant. The question is: Why the prejudiced attitudes that continue to pop up and warrant the rant, or perhaps we just have have trolls continuing to plague the list? In the world of skiing (my other passion), many snow boarders are obnoxious teenagers. They would be obnoxious on skis also. There are also many snow boarders who are considerate and are a pleasure to share the slopes with. In the past, a large number of ski areas took the path of prejudice and simply banned all snow boarders. Now, nearly all are more enlightened and ban bad behavior, whether on skis or snow boards, and permit safe and courteous users of the slopes, whether on skis or snow boards. Can't the tango world be as enlightened and kind as the ski world? David _ Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with Internet Explorer 8. http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Bailonga: The Alternative to the Milonga
In Buenos Aires, the music played for dancing tango is almost exclusively classic tango music from the 1930s, 40s, and 50s. The rare exceptions are more modern recordings of traditional tangos played in the style of the golden age. Outside Argentina it is rare to find a 'milonga' that follows this format. Most tango DJs play at least some neo-tango (tango fusion) or non-tango music to which dancers do steps associated with tango. If neo-tango/non-tango music makes up a significant portion of the music program, these events are sometimes advertised as 'alternative milongas'. This labeling assists dancers in knowing what to expect with regards to the music played. However, this terminology is not used consistently. Given the tango traditions of Buenos Aires, it is questionable whether it is justifiable to call a dance event a 'milonga' when a significant proportion of music played is neo-tango/non-tango music. In Argentine Tango culture, a milonga has a specific meaning, with regard to the music, and with regard to other customs. For the purpose of cultural validity, one should use tango-related terms accurately. In Buenos Aires, a dance event advertised in El Tangauta or BA Tango that has a significant portion of non-tango music is called a 'baile' instead of a .milonga'. Of course, in Buenos Aires, what is danced to non-tango music is usually swing or cumbia or chacarera, as appropriate for the rhythm of the music. I have been hoping that alternative-to-tango music aficiandos would come up with a term for their dance events that did not use the word 'milonga'. This evening I accidentally came across a web page using the term 'bailonga' for a dance event where the preponderance of music played for doing tango steps is neo-tango/non-tango. I googled the term and came up with another webpage using the term 'bailonga' for a music program of the same type: http://www.tangocenter.org/group/bailonga http://www.demetriusgonzalez.com/tango/bailonga.html For clarity in communication regarding the music played at a dance event, I highly recommend universal adoption of the term 'bailonga' for those where the music program contains a significant proportion of neo-tango/non-tango music intended for doing tango steps. Those who enjoy milongas dancing to the music of classic tango will thank you. Ron ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
