[Tango-L] BsAs: Young/Old, Milongas/Practicas - Part II
Continued from Previous Message But I notice the younger dancers are now starting their own milongas (and yes, they DO call them milongas - for example, "Milonga10", which directly follows "Practica8", which is in competition with "Practica(X)" on Tuesday nights). At these new milongas that I've attended, they play typically traditional music, in the place of a "workout mode" practica vibe there is often a palpable feeling of real emotional connection between partners, line-of-dance is observed, but the dancers also tend to dance with more energy than the average dancer at late-night milongas; the level of dance is correspondingly higher; when space is available, they tend to (more) fully use the available space while maintaining intimate connection, without causing conflicts, just as they do in the sometimes-available space in the classic milongas without disruptions. There is far less tendency to immediately form a dense outer ronda with a wide-open middle at these milongas. So one useful generalization I'd offer is that younger BsAs dancers, and those who want to focus on improving their tango level regardless of age, tend to make full use of available space (typically in BsAs without disrupting others) at whatever event they attend, whether traditional Milonga, practica, or "new milonga". Correspondingly, older, more traditional BsAs dancers comfortable with their current level, and those seeking a relaxed social experience without intense focus on the dance, tend to frequent the classic milongas, where traditionalists cluster in a dense outer ronda even when there is plenty of space. I also observe that deep emotional intimacy is possible (insofar as it's visible to onlookers) regardless of the dancers' "density choice". Based on this, I suggest that even small communities can successfully host conflict-free "mixed events"! Dense outer ronda for the traditionalists, open inner space for the "practica types", right? Perhaps that distinction, if taken to heart by attendees at milongas in the USA, is all that's needed for everybody to get along, even in small communities which can't yet support differentiated events? That way everybody gets what they need at the same event, which can help smaller communities still have events that feel like real parties. Maybe a little community consensus-building, over coffee or something, would go a long way to bridging the gulf and resolving this issue. This should work OK as long as there are enough traditionalists to form a ronda in the available space - if not, maybe a smaller venue is needed to adequately test the idea. On the other hand, one idea for too-large venues is to just split the floor - use a folding table or two as a divider, traditional milonga-style ronda on one side, watch-your-back practica-style freeform on the other side, everyone hears the same music. This works very very well in our big Denver practicas with very few conflicts - the dividers just move back and forth between the "venues" to create an effectively dense ronda, with people freely switching sides as needed for their dance-activity-of-the-moment. I'd be interested in comparing notes with others who have observed the same, or different, circumstances in Buenos Aires, or who seek to resolve the kinds of conflicts Ron and Jack refer to at USA tango events of various sizes. All the best, Brian Dunn Dance of the Heart www.danceoftheheart.com Building a Better World, One Tango at a Time ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] BsAs: Young/Old, Milongas/Practicas, and how THEY mix without conflict - Part I
> -- Original message from Jack Dylan : > > Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't Buenos Aires already solved > > this problem by allowing for the separation of traditional dancers > > and nuevo dancers?...Aren't traditional milongas for Salon and Milonguero style, while > > alternative milongas [called practicas] are for anything at all. > > > > Wouldn't this solve everyone's problem? It's often not useful to cite Buenos Aires tango realities as guiding examples for logistical structuring of tango event schedules in North America, for the same reason that Council Bluffs, Iowa should not slavishly organize itself after the way things work in New York City. Size matters, in many ways. But Buenos Aires IS the hotbed of tango, so it may be useful to at least hear some perspective on this question of young vs. old, milongas vs. practicas from someone embedded in the scene. I overheard an Argentine teacher in BsAs who trains advanced dancers discussing with a student from the USA why he couldn't use the material he's worked on in class at the milonga the previous night: "You have to remember that the classic milongas are primarily a social experience here, and not so much a "dance" experience. People want to meet, to drink a little, eat a little, laugh and joke and talk, and maybe do some dancing too. As a visitor, you can attend them, dance in the ronda without disturbing anyone, and enjoy them as a kind of anthropological immersion into a part of our culture - but those events are not really that much about the dancing. The dancers there think of themselves as "good" dancers, because they know how to dance appropriately and with satisfaction in the settings they prefer, but generally they don't tend to think of themselves as "advanced" dancers. If you are really interested in the dancing, then you go where people want to really focus on the dancing - and that's at the practicas." And yes, at those practicas, the dancers TEND to be younger. Young people generally want to dance with young people (what a shock). Older people generally want to go where they've been going for twenty years, to meet their older friends, and relax. Because the scene is so big, this hardly requires much organization, just initiative - people start new things all the time, and everyone finds events they prefer for various reasons. The older BsAs dancers, generally speaking, often no longer "study" the tango anymore - they've done enough for their purposes, they have reached a level that usually gets them the dances they want or can expect, and now they mostly want to MAINTAIN and enjoy their current tango with the partners that are available to them at their current level. By my observation, young BsAs people often dance differently than older BsAs people, generally - the young women are often well-trained and in great shape, trying to outdo each other in looks and skill to attract the better young leaders, and the young men, full of piss & vinegar, are often working similarly hard on their tango, and afire with competitive juices within their peer group as everybody plays and flirts with each other like mad (wow, what a shock). Quite a few older people who want to work on their tango also attend the practicas, but not in numbers sufficient to affect the overall "youthful" feeling of the event. So the practicas tend to be about IMPROVING the level of your dance, and making connections with those who enjoy doing that. Of course, young people often do take advantage of the late-night classic milongas, for social reasons, to relax. When they do, and when they choose to dance there, they generally handle the crowded floors with grace and style without causing fights (and in Buenos Aires, you can get anonymously elbow-nailed in the back for being too out of line - I've seen it). At some traditional Buenos Aires milongas I've seen, there is a tendency to form a dense outer line in the ronda IMMEDIATELY, on the edge of the floor, even when there is still PLENTY of space (like several lanes worth) available in the middle. At some of these traditional milongas, I have seen younger or relatively more energetic dancers in the middle of the ronda making more complete use of the available space not used by the dense outer ronda. They generally dance WITHOUT causing conflicts with the older dancers in the outer ronda, even though their orientation to available space is different. Some on this list might call what they do "nuevo", I suppose, in some instances - of course, since they aren't bothering anyone in the outer ronda, I observe that what they are doing "stylistically" really doesn't seem to matter to anyone else. And while we're talking "branding" issues, these dancers generally refer to what they dance as "tango" - I have never heard a young Buenos Aires dancer, at practicas, or milongas, or tango classes, refer to their dance as "nuevo" in casual conversation. Continued in next message... ___
Re: [Tango-L] SA- Nuevo Theory vs Practice: Creating a Social
- Original Message > From: "jb34...@att.net" > > The separation in BsAs you describe below is by the (average,median) age of > the > dancers. I am not sure following that path is in the best interest of tango. > Jan > "Not in the best interest of tango"? How about a rationale behind that assertion? Should we second guess the porten~os? What is in the best interest of tango? How about allowing people to create their own niche rather than forcing the will of the majority (or space consuming minority) on everyone? It takes nearly an entire room of traditional dancers to create a traditional milonga, but it only takes 3 or 4 couples to turn it inot a nuevo fiesta. Ron > -- Original message from Jack Dylan : > -- > > > > > From: Trini y Sean (PATangoS) > > > > > > I can't believe this argument still continues. > > > > > Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't Buenos Aires already solved > > this problem by allowing for the separation of traditional dancers > > and nuevo dancers? > > > > Aren't traditional milongas for Salon and Milonguero style, while > > alternative milongas [called practicas] are for anything at all. > > > > Wouldn't this solve everyone's problem? > > > > And why do nuevo dancers continue to fight against it? > > > > Regardless of what has been written in the past about 'styles', > > I'm assuming everyone on this forum is knowledgable enough > > to know the differences between Salon, Milonguero and Nuevo. > > > > Jack > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > Tango-L mailing list > > Tango-L@mit.edu > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > ___ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] SA- Neuvo Theory vs Practice: Creating a Social
Jack, The separation in BsAs you describe below is by the (average,median) age of the dancers. I am not sure following that path is in the best interest of tango. Jan -- Original message from Jack Dylan : -- > > From: Trini y Sean (PATangoS) > > > > I can't believe this argument still continues. > > > Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't Buenos Aires already solved > this problem by allowing for the separation of traditional dancers > and nuevo dancers? > > Aren't traditional milongas for Salon and Milonguero style, while > alternative milongas [called practicas] are for anything at all. > > Wouldn't this solve everyone's problem? > > And why do nuevo dancers continue to fight against it? > > Regardless of what has been written in the past about 'styles', > I'm assuming everyone on this forum is knowledgable enough > to know the differences between Salon, Milonguero and Nuevo. > > Jack > > > > > ___ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Good news! VISA guidelines for Tango artists
I just got an update message from Association of Performing Arts Presenters regarding update about Artist Visa regulations by USCIS as of Dec 16, 2009. As a Tango producer and organizer, this gives me relief. - USCIS Reinstates Multi-Employer Petitioning Process In response to concerns expressed by the national performing arts community, the USCIS has reinstated the ability of a petitioner to file a single petition for artists coming to the U.S. for an itinerary of events with multiple arts organizations. A November 20, 2009 USCIS memo offers some clarification for petitioners. When seeking visa approval for an itinerary involving multiple employers or venues, the petitioner does not have to demonstrate that it normally serves as "an agent" outside of the petition process. Find the the latest visa petition requirements here: http://www.artistsfromabroad.org/immigration/ins_i129andi539petitioner.html Burak Ozkosem Producer Miami Beach Tango Marathon Burak's Tango Week ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Berlin for NYE
Any (public) AT New Year's Eve milongas/parties in Berlin, Germany? === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal === ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Nuevo versus the rest
> From: Trini y Sean (PATangoS) > > I can't believe this argument still continues. > too true. Is there nothing else that can be discussed? Like why there is not more Guerilla Tango? Vince in Melbourne, Offering you all a very Merry Christmas (or whatever) for 2009. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
