Re: [Tango-L] Subject: Re: [SA] RE: San Diego close embrace Festival 2010
For Tony, My note... I don't think you can rely on past year's postings as being an accurate representation of this year's event... My note: I agree. I think you must have misunderstood slightly; I was pointing out that last year's was advertised differently, and I suspect the new ad is intentionally meant to attract a more mixed crowd. Also... i think there is a difference between being a 'close embrace festival'... which implies exclusivity, as in the case of Phoenix... and, an attempt to appeal to a particular audience... My note: I also agree with this statement 100%. _ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390708/direct/01/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] [SA] RE: San Diego close embrace Festival 2010 and floorcraft
In reply to Tony's mail about the San Diego festival: Maybe I'm missing something, somewhere... but, I've visited and carefully read each page. I can NOT find the term 'close embrace' used anywhere on the site... The website for the upcoming San Diego New Year's festival does not claim that it is close embrace, nor is there any hint of it. The ad for this past New Year's festival (http://tango.org/festivals/sandiego/2009sdtangofest) says (and I quote): The 3rd Annual San Diego Tango Festival will be a Southern California treat for all tango dancers who love the social tango popular in the milongas of Buenos Aires: close, subtle romantic. Further down on the page, the site claims that San Diego has a great close embrace community. Thus, it is easy to see --through a bit of reading between the lines perhaps paired with a bit of wishful thinking ; ) -- how one might get the impression that the festival was intended only for traditional close-embrace milonguero dancers. I certainly did get this impression upon first reading of the ad some months ago. And this is not because I am looking for such an exclusive festival. Critically read, however, the ad nowhere actually promises a close embrace festival. Indeed, some of the teachers listed prefer a changing embrace and even excel at both open and closed styles. Brigitta Winkler, for example, is expert at dancing both traditional milonguero and dynamic, improvisational open figures, while one of the other teachers listed prefers a close-embrace nuevo milonguero style. I wonder whether a variety of styles and figures were taught at the festival's classes. I agree with Tony that poor floor craft has become an almost universal phenomenon. I have danced in many different cities and countries, and I have suffered my fair share of injuries, most (perhaps all) caused by a close-embrace dancer moving against the line of dance (or else just not paying attention). The danger increases markedly as soon as a dramatic work by Pugliesi is played. A few accidents in the past were unfortunately the result of my accepting a dance from an unfamiliar (close-embrace) leader, who was himself clueless about floorcraft. As a follower, I now dance only with leaders I have already observed; and I have long ceased feeling that I must accept a dance because I have to be nice. I feel it is as much the follower's obligation to stamp out bad floorcraft as anyone's. Followers must turn down (or abandon) a leader who can neither protect her/him from poor dancers nor avoid causing harm and inconvenience to others. And if, in spite of my best efforts, I find myself dancing with a poor or unjudicious navigator, until l I have the opportunity to politely dump him/her (with a thank-you after the first song), I keep my eyes open, execute no gancho nor any off-the-floor boleo, no matter how s/he tries to force one. Usually said leader immediately assumes I am unable to follow or am not experienced enough to execute the figure which, ironically, sometimes leads to his trying to teach it to me!!! But if enough followers do the same, s/he'll get it sooner or later or be put out of business. A very fine dancer once told me that his first priority on the dancefloor was to protect his partner. Apart from the incredible trust and connection a follower can have with such a leader, just imagine what it would do for general floorcraft if all leaders made this a priority, regardless of their style! _ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390709/direct/01/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] The dreaded back step
Hello dear tango dancers, I'm one of the teachers who teach his dancers the back step. Also in my videos courses I always dance the back step. Not as the first step of a tango, that step has always to be in the direction of the dance or to the side, but during the dance, you have to see, to feel where the other dancers are at the dance floor. It hasn't to be a big step backwards; normally the step backwards is quiet small actually. I learned the back step of all my meastros: Pepito Avellaneda, Antonio Todaro, Rodolfo Dinzel, Lampazo, Copes, Eduardo, etc etc I think one of the most important things is that we dancers can't take the back step out of our dance. That would be terrible, when we are walking (caminar) we have 3 possibilities: for-, side-, backward. The backwards step for the men (everybody is talking about the backward step, it is a FORWARDS step for the woman! so this step is very important in the expression of the dance, to dance a backwards step is a completely other sensation as a forwards step. I love the backwards step, to feel the strength of the women in walking forwards to me, years ago I danced in Milonga Sin Rumbo with Maria Nieves, when see walks a forwards step you can feel the force, the strength, the presents of a woman. It was a very important sensation and I would never take the backwards step out of my dance, yes we have to learn to see, to feel where the other dancers are at the dance floor, and I think that´s a job for all teachers: how to dance in a Milonga, the rules of the social dance tango. That´s as important as to teach figures, improvisation, musicality, etc. etc. Kindly regards, Ricardo El holandés http://www.tango-argentino.info ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] The dreaded back step
On Jan 7, 2010, at 6:04 AM, www.tango-argentino.info wrote: Hello dear tango dancers, I'm one of the teachers who teach his dancers the back step. Also in my videos courses I always dance the back step. ... I learned the back step of all my meastros: Pepito Avellaneda, Antonio Todaro, Rodolfo Dinzel, Lampazo, Copes, Eduardo, etc etc I think one of the most important things is that we dancers can't take the back step out of our dance. That would be terrible, when we are walking (caminar) we have 3 possibilities: for-, side-, backward. ... Ricardo El holandés Which of the listed teachers are primarily social dancers and which are stage dancers? Tom Stermitz http://www.tango.org Denver, CO 80207 ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] [SA] RE: San Diego close embrace Festival 2010 and floorcraft
On Jan 6, 2010, at 5:40 PM, Have to Tango wrote: In reply to Tony's mail about the San Diego festival: Maybe I'm missing something, somewhere... but, I've visited and carefully read each page. I can NOT find the term 'close embrace' used anywhere on the site... The website for the upcoming San Diego New Year's festival does not claim that it is close embrace, nor is there any hint of it. The ad for this past New Year's festival (http://tango.org/festivals/sandiego/2009sdtangofest ) says (and I quote): The 3rd Annual San Diego Tango Festival will be a Southern California treat for all tango dancers who love the social tango popular in the milongas of Buenos Aires: close, subtle romantic. (1) Isn't ALL tango close-embrace? Not counting stage tango, of course. Nuevo and Salon sometimes have a variable embrace, but they are also danced very close. (2) Isn't ALL tango improvisational? Not counting stage tango, again. (3) At this point 99% of us should agree that good dancing and good navigation are the issue, not style. I've been the organizer of the Denver and San Diego festivals for 10 years. Most people have a good time, and we get a lot of repeat dancers year after year. Dance quality is good but not perfect. Setting high aspirations is great, but expecting perfection is a sure set-up for failure. Originally I advertised the festivals as Milonguero, which was quite controversial in 1999 because at the time, 90% of tango teachers were stage dancers teaching stage figures. The Tango-L arguments went back and forth as to whether Milonguero Style even existed, or was just a marketing term. I had visited Argentina several times and it was obvious that tango AS DANCED IN ARGENTINA, was completely different from the stage figures presented in the US. I wanted people to know they could find that Buenos Aires experience in the US. These days, branding the Denver and San Diego festivals as presenting: social tango popular in the milongas of Buenos Aires: close subtle romantic should be obvious to everyone, and shouldn't be controversial. It says nothing about style, but says everything you need to know. THE MILONGA as a TRANSCENDENT DANCE CONTAINER How do you create the social dance conditions for people to achieve transcendent dance experiences? That is a much more interesting question than style or advertising verbiage. I've been talking with a friend who has experience with ritual dance, who believes that concepts of ritual and trance are essential for understanding the tango dance experience. Most (many? some?) tango dancers have experienced the tango high, that zen experience where time melts away into intuitive music and movement. It is like you are dancing consciously and unconsciously with your partner and the whole crowd. In terms from ritual dance, the milonga is the ritual container, and the DJ is the master of the ceremony or leader of the drum circle. How does an organizer set it up the right conditions? Can you really control things or just encourage them? (1) Physical space: Separate the dance floor from the sitting area. Hotel ballrooms are surprisingly good, with carpeted area for tables clearly delineated from the wooden dance floor. (2) Social space: Keep pedestrians separate from dancers; tables face the dance floor on multiple sides; convenient ebb and flow on and off the floor; tandas and cortinas to provide consistent social rules, (not rules really, agreed-upon structure?). (3) Crowd energy: Transcendence is a personal experience, but crowd energy is a powerful driver. Achieving an intuitive psychological experience comes from having an intuitive interaction with the dancers around you. This requires a certain density of dancers on the dance floor. Empty floors allow room for people to avoid interacting with the other dancers and provides space for some leaders to rocket around. Super-crowded conditions require higher skills from the leader. Merely very-crowded is good because everybody has to dance about the same consistent speed and rhythm. (4) DJ: The DJ has to know what it means to create the transcendent for the participants: Ebb and flow of energy from song-to-song and set- to-set; Arc of energy across the evening; psychological feeling of the songs chosen; (5) Expectations: The crowd has to know transcendence is both a possibility and be seeking it. That means some high percentage of the participants need to be pretty good and they need to have experienced tango transcendence. I think some of the expressions of tango road rage is a valid concern about disturbances to the tango dance-trance. These criticisms have frequently been directed at practitioners of Nuevo, but in truth, good nuevo dancers have the same goal as good milonguero or salon dancers. Tom Stermitz http://www.tango.org Denver, CO 80207
Re: [Tango-L] The dreaded back step
I avoid teaching the 8 count basic. You have to remember what it's like to be beginner. Beginners will try to follow what is taught in EVERY situation, and that includes milongas. Telling them this is to give you guidance in movement but don't dance it at a milonga is not helpful. It's difficult to break habits and the 8 count basic is a habit. I remember one woman told me at a milonga that I was dancing wrong because it's not what she was taught, i.e. 8 count basic. I told her to go dance with her teacher. Another problem is the woman's first step with the 8 count basic is forward. Beginner women are afraid to step forward because they think they will step on the man's foot. I don't even start with figures but teaching HOW to move. The HOW is always more important than the WHAT. Michael Washington, DC On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 12:45 PM, rhi...@netscape.net wrote: My understanding of the 8-count basic is that it's a school figure that hits the four cardinal points on the compass among other things. Its purpose is to help leaders lead and followers follow steps in those 4 directions. So why teach the back step in the first place given that in practice it is seldom used? Personally I find the back step of the 8-count basic perfectly acceptable since it is easily unlearned. Bob ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Teaching the 8CB
Tango Teachers are a strange lot. One thing they all have in common is a lack of certification, wait a minute …. They don’t need any certification. Lets see I’ve had six group classes with a local teacher I feel like I dance pretty good I think I’ll have some business cards printed up with a slick picture of me in tango attire and start teaching. I’ve witnessed this time and again and it really ticks me off and it’s not only the beginners who profess to be teachers but it’s also those who claim to be experienced who have traveled to or originated from BsAs and studied under many of the great dancers. I’ve traveled to BsAs many times and studied with the great Roberto Herrera. Wow that would look good on my resume but the truth is I had one group lesson with Roberto in 2002. Am I qualified to teach…No Michael from Washington DC wrote: (Another problem is the woman's first step with the 8 count basic is forward. Beginner women are afraid to step forward because they think they will step on the man's foot.) All the more reason to teach her the forward step Michael and what better way to teach the forward step then to teach her the 8CB. The woman will use the forward step throughout the dance in different figures. In most cases the man will use the back step if not in a figure simply as a defensive measure to protect his partner from getting stepped on by the idiot in front of him that’s dancing against the line of dance. Teach the 8CB and then show the different possibilities of the figure. You can also help the dance community by not teaching boleo’s and volcada’ s. David. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Teaching the 8CB
I don't teach how to move forward and backward using figures. I teach that the upper body moves first when moving forward and the leg moves backward first when moving backward. The HOW is always more important than the WHAT. I wouldn't consider teaching figures until the student has axis, frame, posture, and balance. Students the logical approach to movement instead of side right, forward, etc. Michael Still in Washington, DC On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 12:43 PM, hbboog...@aol.com wrote: Michael from Washington DC wrote: (Another problem is the woman's first step with the 8 count basic is forward. Beginner women are afraid to step forward because they think they will step on the man's foot.) All the more reason to teach her the forward step Michael and what better way to teach the forward step then to teach her the 8CB. David. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] [SA] RE: San Diego close embrace Festival 2010 and floorcraft
Tom, I'm in agreement with pretty much everything you said. Also let me take this opportunity to thank you for organizing the Denver and San Diego festivals; I have many happy memories. I think some of the expressions of tango road rage is a valid concern about disturbances to the tango dance-trance. I gather you are trying to create a context in which tango trance experiences are possible, but the conditions on the floor in SD made it very difficult. I'm searching for words here; let me try this: It's in your interest to figure out a way to restore some semblance of sanity on the dance floor. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Tete Rusconi passes away
El Tangauta reports that Tete Rusconi (of Tete Silvia fame) passed away today. There are some dedications on El Tangauta's Facebook page at: http://www.facebook.com/eltangautatango You may also see excerpts from a documentary on Tete at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCqBW9wv3RE where there are some additional dedications. Shahrukh ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] The dreaded back step
Michael wrote: I avoid teaching the 8 count basic. You have to remember what it's like to be beginner. Beginners will try to follow what is taught in EVERY situation, and that includes milongas. Telling them this is to give you guidance in movement but don't dance it at a milonga is not helpful. Unless you also tell them that that step can also be danced back roughly 1nm (that's a millionth of a millimetre) - and should be, actually, unless you know you aren't against the line of dance. But of course, that can't be right, because it then no longer has a *dreaded* back step, so it's no longer the mandatory 8CBwDBS? ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Tete passed away
Tete was 80 years old. Pedro Tete Rusconi was one of the great dancers of the last 30 years. He had a unique style, very personal, that he tried to teach. He went dancing to El Beso last night and was found dead in bed this morning. It is a great loss and we are all going to miss him. Sergio Buenos Aires, 7 de enero (Télam.- Pedro Teté Rusconi, uno de los maestros bailarines de tango más importante de los últimos 30 años falleció esta mañana en su casa del barrio de Palermo, a los 80 años, informaron sus amigos. (Publicidad) Desde 1996 junto a su pareja de baile, Silvia, recorrieron Alemania, Francia, Suiza, Italia, Holanda, España, Bélgica, Suecia y los Estados Unidos, con su elegante estilo tradicional de tango. El crítico estadounidense Paul Pellicoro en su libro Paul Pellicoro sobre el Tango incluye a Teté y Silvia entre los más importantes maestros de los últimos treinta años. Anoche, Teté fue a la milonga El Beso y esta mañana fue hallado sin vida en su departamento. Sus allegados no pudieron adelantar esta tarde el lugar donde será velado.- (Télam) as-ahm-mag07/01/2010 17:53 _ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390706/direct/01/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Tango Pole Dance - who are these dancers?
Hello all! Does anyone know who the dancers in this youtube video are? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWxcVyBRecE We are searching for a way to contact them directly. ANY information you might have would be so appreciated. Thank you for your help! ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango Pole Dance - who are these dancers?
Dance show Cardinal http://cardinal-show.ru/ If you want to contact them, I can help translating into/from Russian. Sergey May you be forever touched by His Noodly Appendage... ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster ) Does anyone know who the dancers in this youtube video are? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWxcVyBRecE We are searching for a way to contact them directly. ANY information you might have would be so appreciated. Thank you for your help! ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] [SA] RE: San Diego close embrace Festival 2010 and ritual
Tom Stermitz wrote: (1) Isn't ALL tango close-embrace? Not counting stage tango, of course. Nuevo and Salon sometimes have a variable embrace, but they are also danced very close Well, one could argue your point. But if this is really true, why do we bother to use the appellation close-embrace in the first place? We'd just call it tango and other labels would not have developed to describe differences. I personally find the distinction useful, since I see dancers in my communities who prefer a completely or mostly open embrace, and many others who never or seldom open the embrace. so they could find that Buenos Aires experience in the US. Your intent to provide an authentic Buenos Aires exprience in the US is truly admirable and I hope you succeed! But -- and this is meant to be more than a rhetorical question -- doesn't this require going all the way, including cortinas where the dance floor is really cleared, and -- let's not forget -- the empowerment (and freeing) of both the leaders and especially followers by instituting and teaching the cabeceo? The latter could only lead to a higher level of dancing, and it would avoid the absolutely non-authentic experience of making followers sitting ducks. I personally do not believe its possible (or honest) to import just the parts that are convenient, familiar, or comfortable and still say that is an authentic experience. I applaud you for advocating the ritual of the milonga and I hope you do succeed in offering such a festival, but with 100% of the ritual and transcendance, not just 50%. _ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390710/direct/01/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Forward Step By Lady
From: Michael tangoman...@cavtel.net http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCqBW9wv3RE I teach that the upper body moves first when moving forward and the leg moves backward first when moving backward. That's certainly true when the man is moving forward and the lady backward. But what happens when the man is leading the lady to make a forward step? Wouldn't the man's torso and foot move backward together? Jack ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Forward Step By Lady
Jack: The person moving backward has to get out of the way of the person coming forward. The person coming forward can't move until the person in front gets out of the way. The person going backward reaches back with the free foot WITHOUT moving the upper body. After the back step, the person can move the torso backward over the free foot which now supports the person's weight. It's ready-aim-step. The aim is the foot moving backward and the step is the transfer of weight. The dance definition of step is to change weight. It's the same rule for the man and the woman because it makes no difference who's going backward. If the man was to move his torso and step back at the same time, he wouldn't have a foot to support himself and he would pull the woman into himself without having support. Not a good idea. Michael I danced Argentine Tango --with the Argentines - Original Message - From: Jack Dylan jackdylan...@yahoo.com To: Tango-L Tango-L@mit.edu Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 10:58 PM Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Forward Step By Lady From: Michael tangoman...@cavtel.net http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCqBW9wv3RE I teach that the upper body moves first when moving forward and the leg moves backward first when moving backward. That's certainly true when the man is moving forward and the lady backward. But what happens when the man is leading the lady to make a forward step? Wouldn't the man's torso and foot move backward together? Jack ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
