Re: [Tango-L] Naming figures and decorations
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 1:36 PM, quotes someone from Argentina: > Los > extranjeros nunca van a entender el significado verdadero del tango. Se > trata del > abrazo, la coneccion con tu pareja y la musica. Nada mas. Yay, more blanket generalization! Alas, this one is probably true for a majority of foreigners, but then again, many do get it. One of the things I like about Susana Miller (who is Argentine) is that her answer to the question of, "Does one have to be born Argentine to fully understand the tango?" in a post workshop discussion was, "Absolutely not." Huck ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Naming figures and decorations
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 9:35 AM, tony parkes wrote: > hi david > > from following the tango-l posts for around 2 years now it seems > evident to me that most american contributors are in alignment with > what i see as the american psyche being steeped in statistics and > analysis, and by extension putting a name to the outcome of those > numbers and figures. and not just tango, but also politics, sports, So Argentine instructors only name figures in American classes, because Europeans are far too sophisticated for that? Are Europeans too laid back to post the soccer league standings in the newspaper? I'm just going to ignore this silly blanket generalizing (other than to note that Europeans seem to love to generalize about Americans) and go on. > etc etc. there have been many times when i have been mesmerised at the > extent to which a contributor has explained a particular step; or > whether the beat it is a 2-2-2-4 or a 2-2-4-2 or whatever, or the size > of space per person in el beso - how can one have feeling for the > music and the dance form in one's heart when so much information and > detail is twirling around in your head. You are making the erroneous assumption that just because someone analyzes something in a discussion means that they are also doing all that analyzing when they are dancing. That probably is indeed true for beginning dancers, but not for more advanced ones. I also wouldn't be so quick to ridicule analysis. If you ever want to teach tango, it helps to be able to discuss concepts and technique in an analytical manner rather than just demonstrate something and then say, "You guys see that? Pretty cool, eh? Now just copy it and off you go, see you next class!" Huck ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] the true meaning of the tango
" Los extranjeros nunca van a entender el significado verdadero del
tango. Se trata del abrazo, la coneccion con tu pareja y la musica.
Nada mas".
("The foreigners will never understand the true meaning of the tango.
It is the embrace, the connection with your partner and the music.
Nothing more.")
This is a very general, and I think insulting, remark. To say that
only the Argentines have the ability to understand these things
boarders on the edge of bigitry, and if it is true, who's fault is
that since it is the Argentines who have taught the rest of the the
world (directly or indirectly) the dance that is the Tango.
Is this a direct quote from Senor Dassieu, or is this something that
you yourself believe?
("The foreigners will never understand the true meaning of the tango.
It is the embrace, the connection with your partner and the music.
Nothing more."
This is a quote from me and if I didn’t believe it I wouldn’t say it let
me explain. It’s not an absolute truth it’s a general observation. It’s a
philosophy that one must embrace it’s like the concept of being in the
moment focusing on the music and your partner. Bill if we are looking through
the same eyes we are not seeing leaders focusing on the music and the woman
we are seeing everything but that.
Are you yourself from Argentina?
I’m not from Argentina but my wife is.
Do you understand these things?
Yes it took many years for me to realize that tango is about the
connection and the music.
Is this something that cannot be taught?
It’s a philosophy not a figure it can be explained and talked about but I
think one needs to figure it out on there own and eventually “get it” some
never will. If you read the previous post you would see what Tony was
talking about : “the american psyche being steeped in statistics and analysis
how can one have feeling for the music and the dance form in one's heart
when so much information and detail is twirling around in your head.”
I was agreeing with Tony and for those who have traveled to BsAs and seen
the older men moving around the floor each one in his own space dancing for
only the music and the woman in his arms it’s a thing of beauty it’s
tango.
David
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Re: [Tango-L] Rate of movement on crowded floors
Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts on this topic. I particularly enjoyed Vince's clips. It was nice to see actual social dancing in BsAs. If these clips are typical, then I don't see the rate of movement of crowded floors being that much different in BsAs than what I've seen in the U.S. So perhaps it was an "apples and oranges" type of thing when it came to comparing things. I would appreciate it if someone could post how things are at Valentango this year. I hope Detlef, Melina, and others make it over there soon! Trini de Slushburgh ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Naming figures and decorations
Tony Alberto and Paulina Dassieu from BsAs were visiting a couple of weeks ago and we were discussing my tango teachers who are from Rosario Claudio and Veronica Rubio. After about seven years of private lessons with them I have now settled into my own style of dancing. Alberto gave me a big smile and a hug and congratulated me and said this is how tango should evolve by learning from a maestro and then making it your own. I am the same as you I never think about what name is put on a step or what numbers are put on a beat, I just dance. Someone said on a previous post “are there only teachers and students dancing tango”? There are tango dancers that are not teaching and are no longer students they are like me just dancing for the music and for the partner. It is sad to watch people dancing to show off for the audience especially when the audience doesn’t care and isn’t paying attention to them anyway. Los extranjeros nunca van a entender el significado verdadero del tango. Se trata del abrazo, la coneccion con tu pareja y la musica. Nada mas. Cheers David y Gloria In a message dated 2/11/2010 8:35:34 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, macroma...@gmail.com writes: what i see as the american psyche being steeped in statistics and analysis, and by extension putting a name to the outcome of those ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Naming figures and decorations
hi david from following the tango-l posts for around 2 years now it seems evident to me that most american contributors are in alignment with what i see as the american psyche being steeped in statistics and analysis, and by extension putting a name to the outcome of those numbers and figures. and not just tango, but also politics, sports, etc etc. there have been many times when i have been mesmerised at the extent to which a contributor has explained a particular step; or whether the beat it is a 2-2-2-4 or a 2-2-4-2 or whatever, or the size of space per person in el beso - how can one have feeling for the music and the dance form in one's heart when so much information and detail is twirling around in your head. and i suspect this phenomena extends to nuevo i dance many figures with my partners without a clue as to their labels, or the time beat, i know that i dance differently to a tango to a vals to a canyengue to a milonga, i dance differently when gricel is full to the sardine can than when in maipu when almost empty. i dance differently to de angelis than to pugliese. i dance differently with a follower who is my peer than with someone who is say intermediate. all without a referring to a notebook full of stats, explanations or figures the important part for me is my connection to my partner, the music, the floor conditions, and ultimately our joint satisfaction cheers tony On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 11:54 AM, David Burnett wrote: > > My teacher did not use such names when he taught in the sixties, but that > may just have been his style of teaching. He taught no figures, but focussed > instead on musicality, connection and balance, encouraging us to improvise > within the rhythmic patterns the music provided. This approach seems to have > been lost for the most part and replaced by a sort of paint-by-numbers > version of Tango. > db > > On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 10:24 AM, Tango22 wrote: > > > Is it true that most of the names for decorations and figures were > > invented or coined for the consumption of foreign students? I notice > > that some of the naming conventions in the US are different from other > > places. Is the language of export Tango changing with the 'export' > > styles? > > J > > > > 1) Walking > > 2) Ocho Cortado > > 3) Molinete to the man's left > > 4) Molinete to the man's right > > 5) Back ocho > > 6) Boleo > > Surely a Cruzada and possibly a Pasada. Also a Rebound or Rock-Step. > > > > ___ > > Tango-L mailing list > > Tango-L@mit.edu > > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > > ___ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l -- cheers tony ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Composer's names
That's interesting. I had heard once, and I believe it was in a DJ workshop, that bad copies of some recordings resulted in the last note being cut off, and in some cases the original versions no longer exist. Has anyone ever heard this or know whether it's true for some recordings? Laura Sandhill Crane wrote: > --- On Tue, 2/2/10, Tanguero wrote: > >> Can anyone list all the composers/orchestras which >> withhold the last note of a tango - - and why! Who >> began this eccentric style? > > Well, two that come to mind are Enrique Rodriguez and > Florindo Sassone. Sometimes Pugliese would soften the > last note, but so far as I know it's always there. > > Withholding the last note makes the song feel kind of > off-balance. It certainly is distinctive. > Maybe that's why Rodriguez and Sassone did that, > as a sort of trademark to let the listener know > that it was their work. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] naming figures and decorations
"Is it true that most of the names for decorations and figures were invented or coined for the consumption of foreign students? I notice that some of the naming conventions in the US are different from other places." "Is the language of export Tango changing with the 'export' styles?J 1) Walking2) Ocho Cortado3) Molinete to the man's left4) Molinete to the man's right5) Back ocho6) BoleoSurely a Cruzada and possibly a Pasada. Also a Rebound or Rock-Step." - No, it is not true,tango names are used in Argentina the same as abroad. 1- Caminata - Tango Walk 2- Ocho adelante - Ocho atras - Ocho cortado : Front, back ocho and ocho cortado. 3- Giros a la derecha o a la izquierda - Turns or molinetes right or left. 4- La Cruzada. There certain moves that have different names, some of those names are more popular in certain areas than in others. Ex. Rulo, lapiz, dibujo : To execute a circular motion with the foot. Curl or pencil or drawing. Most places abroad use the Argentine Terminology in Spanish. Best regards, Sergio _ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
