Re: [Tango-L] Tango-L Survey Part 5 (final): General Comments
> Quoted from the survey: > > On Apr 11, 2015, at 5:10 PM, Shahrukh Merchant > wrote: > >> There was a golden age of tango blogging but it seems to have ended five >> years or so ago. Established bloggers have little or nothing to say, and >> no new bloggers fill the gap. Not that it was a terribly controversial statement but just to be clear, I didn't write that, though the quoting makes it seems like it's being attributed to me. It was in fact written by an unidentified survey respondent. (I don't really follow any blogs in anything, so I wouldn't have any opinions about them.) Shahrukh ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango-L Survey Part 5 (final): General Comments
You might like this one: https://jantango.wordpress.com/ Michael Came home to New York where the Argentine Tango is better -Original Message- From: tango-l-boun...@mit.edu [mailto:tango-l-boun...@mit.edu] On Behalf Of robert-b Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2015 7:37 PM To: tango-l@mit.edu Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tango-L Survey Part 5 (final): General Comments Quoted from the survey: On Apr 11, 2015, at 5:10 PM, Shahrukh Merchant wrote: > There was a golden age of tango blogging but it seems to have ended > five years or so ago. Established bloggers have little or nothing to > say, and no new bloggers fill the gap. > However: www.tango-high-and-low.com (is new). Robert ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango-L Survey Part 5 (final): General Comments
Quoted from the survey: On Apr 11, 2015, at 5:10 PM, Shahrukh Merchant wrote: > There was a golden age of tango blogging but it seems to have ended five > years or so ago. Established bloggers have little or nothing to say, and > no new bloggers fill the gap. > However: www.tango-high-and-low.com (is new). Robert ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Retaining Tango-L
Try this to start: http://tango-argentin.fr/paris.html then follow the various links. Le 2015-04-07 04:54, Kris Hansen a écrit : > Like! > And can anyone suggest the best resource to look up European tango weekends > and festivals?? > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Apr 6, 2015, at 9:17 PM, Polly McBride wrote: >> >> During the first years of my tango life, Tango-L was the only source of >> information and discussion that was available. It was a pleasure to hear >> from fellow enthusiasts about their philosophy, insight, opinions and >> experiences. >> >> When Clay Nelson and I and our former partners introduced tango to Portland >> in 1992, Tango-L was one of the few resources we could refer them to. I'd >> like to be able to do that again. It is a valuable resource. >> >> Like! >> >> Polly McBride >> ___ >> Tango-L mailing list >> Tango-L@mit.edu >> http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > ___ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Tango-L Survey Part 5 (final): General Comments
There were a total of 74 respondents to the survey Here are the general comments that people wrote for public consumption, (other than those already quoted in previous posts). COMMENTS FOR PUBLICATION (13) Seems like the combination of the Smartphone and Social networking "revolutions" has killed most peoples ability or willingness to write anything meaningful (let alone profound). tango has unfortunately dis-evolved into a battle between the traditionalists and non traditionalists as far as music, and the close embrace crowd and the more open dance crowd. there is obviously a schism between the athletic dance crowd and the less athletic dance crowd. trying to convince young enthusiastic dancers into close embrace is futile at best, and usually a disaster. we regularly show various dancers examples of all versions of tango, and the generally respond quite negatively to the close embrace dances. interestingly, they respond well to mixed dancers who go between the various embraces. little girl dancers (for me that means usually 16 years old to late 20's, usually who have been ballet dancing and other dancing since they were 4 or 5) want the big moves and dance drama that open embraces permit. the off center, uncomfortable dance that the close embrace forces are not in anyway esthetically pleasing, nor kinesthetically pleasant. they know how to move, on center, with the music, and the close embrace is not a dance they want to do. they also feel like they are being "forced" to do a dance they don't want to do by the "stinky old guys". when we take them into public forums, we have to run great interference to protect them. which is sad A tango blog with an RSS feed would be interesting. I very much prefer the old, classic, list-serv e-mail-list format. I am not interested in websites, web-fora, anything overloaded with features. The old, classic, list-serv e-mail-list just works fine. But not just: always! I've been on the list since 1996. It was great in the early days. With social media, it is now not really relevant. We already have plenty of groups on FB, but we have lost most of the email lists. As result, there is no way to directly connect to others. Tango-L is very valuable, but new people don't know about it. Should Tango-L Continue? Yes. especially preserve the archives. Prefer a mailing list to a Yahoo Groups page. Anything but Yahoo! Facebook is too cluttered and too commercial at this point and not good for extended discussions. Tango-L was once very much alive and cutting edge discussion about the dance and the dance situations I would like to see it re visited I do not ever intend to get a Facebook account so I consider FB the least desirable of options. I do read a few blogs, including tangovoice.wordpress.com, and often find these interesting. There was a golden age of tango blogging but it seems to have ended five years or so ago. Established bloggers have little or nothing to say, and no new bloggers fill the gap. The decline of tango discussion forums makes me sad. It seems to have occurred in parallel to the rise of Facebook, although tango discussions on Facebook are very light-weight and don't interest me generally. But maybe it's nothing to do with Facebook and instead reflects that tango is no longer "new" to the great majority of its community. I used to read all of the postings when all I had to do was open one email and all the posts were in the one text box. SUMMARY OF COMMENTS NOT FOR PUBLICATION Well, of course I'm not going to publish them, but I can give a gist of them: 10 People identifying themselves (names or emails) and/or their location 5 Thanking me for keeping up the list [you're welcome!] 3 Positive general comments on Tango-L [thanks!] 2 Comments related to undesirable (probably former) list members 2 Suggestions or offers of help for any porting/software work needed [thanks--will be in touch!] Thanks all for your participation! This is not the final word on the subject, just the final email summarizing the survey. (I'll post a separate one on the Tango-A survey on Tango-A.) In a couple of weeks, I should decide what to do with the list, and that decision will largely depend on whether there indeed is any chance of greater meaningful participation. It would seem that, at the very least, Tango-A and Tango-L should be combined (if they continue)--long-time members will recall that they were split off for two reasons: (1) To reduce the volume on each individual list while (2) keeping Tango-L non-commercial and focussed on discussion, while providing via Tango-A a service for those who were teaching Tango and organizing Tango events. Since high list volume is hardly a problem now, a recombination would make sense (if there is reason to believe that the combined list would achieve critical mass). Regards, Shahrukh Merchant Tango-L administrator ___ Tang
Re: [Tango-L] Tango-L past and where we should be heading.
Whatever platform is used, I would hope it would allow a searchable archive and a consolidation option. I was too lazy to do the survey but can tell you that my interest in participating was quashed when a certain group took over and ignored or, even worse dismissed, any posts by women as being not germane. We old-timers do talk amongst ourselves. From: robert-b To: tango-l@mit.edu Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2015 11:44 AM Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tango-L past and where we should be heading. Concerning Reuven’s thoughts about a platform--what about something like Slashdot.org, which is a Web site that hosts various discussions organized into various independent discussion topics? I’m not sure what they’re using for software or how the site was designed, but it’s a nice option in that it provides the ease of access of a Web site and the ability to create and follow independent discussions. I’ve nothing against mailing lists per se, but there are options for more up-to-date interfaces that are less cumbersome and advertising heavy than Yahoo. Facebook is a non-starter as far as I’m concerned. It was never designed for extended discussion of any kind. Robert B. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango-L past and where we should be heading.
What's lacking is participation, the medium is fine as it is. For example, J.C. Cáceres passed away. Any thoughts? I, for one, love his jazz-murga-candombe-milonga connection. As a DJ I love to play some of his music (beyond "Tango Negro" and "Toca Tango"). ...dubravko === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal ich bin der Schmied meines eigenen Glücks === http://okvarbud.blogspot.com/ http://dbtango.blogspot.com/ http://dbpolitics.blogspot.com/ From: robert-b To: tango-l@mit.edu Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2015 5:44 PM Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tango-L past and where we should be heading. Concerning Reuven’s thoughts about a platform--what about something like Slashdot.org, which is a Web site that hosts various discussions organized into various independent discussion topics? I’m not sure what they’re using for software or how the site was designed, but it’s a nice option in that it provides the ease of access of a Web site and the ability to create and follow independent discussions. I’ve nothing against mailing lists per se, but there are options for more up-to-date interfaces that are less cumbersome and advertising heavy than Yahoo. Facebook is a non-starter as far as I’m concerned. It was never designed for extended discussion of any kind. Robert B. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango-L past and where we should be heading.
Concerning Reuven’s thoughts about a platform--what about something like Slashdot.org, which is a Web site that hosts various discussions organized into various independent discussion topics? I’m not sure what they’re using for software or how the site was designed, but it’s a nice option in that it provides the ease of access of a Web site and the ability to create and follow independent discussions. I’ve nothing against mailing lists per se, but there are options for more up-to-date interfaces that are less cumbersome and advertising heavy than Yahoo. Facebook is a non-starter as far as I’m concerned. It was never designed for extended discussion of any kind. Robert B. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Seville Spain
Hi. There are several Milongas each week in Seville Spain. Has anyone attended any of them. If so which of the 7 is or are the best. Thanks sherrie. Sent from my iPhone ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Tango-L past and where we should be heading.
This mailing list was started by Shahrukh at the time when the internet was at it’s infancy, at least in terms of mass usage. If one wanted to be part of the Tango community, that was it. It was the only place you could communicate with other Tangueros, find Milongas in other countries as well as discuss any Tango related issues. Today, the world is different, the internet is not the same as well. While Facebook by no means is a substitute to a mailing list, it diverts a lot of time and attention from users. It fulfills the need of “community” at the cost of the ability to converse in a more meaningful way; with people that are not “friends”, but share the same passion. Furthermore, Tango became ubiquitous in the US and everywhere else. It was no longer committed Tangueros, it is now everyone who got exposed to Tango one way or another. It became a mass interest splintered among many venues and sites. In October 2000 I created a Yahoo group - NewYorkTango, with the idea to emulate the Tango-L for New Yorkers. It has now over 1600 members, but is never caught up as a community - it became a platform for Tango events organizers to publicize their events. There is a room for a community, and in my view it’s needed. Tango-L has the right history and future if it will adapt to today’s world: allowing images, attachments and graphics in general, to mentions a few. Yahoo Groups is not the only available venue: there is a new entity https://groups.io/ which describes itself as “Email Groups 2.0". I would suggest that Shahrukh move Tango-L to groups.io. This will not only help with MIT affiliation issues but will also bring to the list a new interface and tools. That, I believe may revitalize the concept of Tango “community” and in a way help bringing it back to the “good old days”. A Facebook page linking to the Tango-L group would not hurt either... Another thing that was suggested earlier - the group must be moderated. Otherwise it will be in danger of failing. I am sure some members will be willing to help. I think I was blabbering enough for one morning... and thank you for reading! Reuven ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Tango Survey ERRATA: Missing comments on "Should Tango-L continue"
Owing to the way the survey summary is presented (they are paginated in a non-obvious-to-me way), I missed several written comments on two previous questions. So here they are: From the email on 8 April 2015: On the question, "Should Tango-L continue? Why or Why not?" (to which 70% had replies "Yes") there were numerous additional missing written comments: SHOULD CONTINUE - There is nothing else that comes close to replacing it - It's a great way to stay connected to other dancers. - some very interesting posts - because it 'always' has been there ... killing it would be a shame! - There is a resurgence of Tango in some areas and it might be helpful for those newer students to participate - it was usually pretty interesting - Found it valuable and interesting often in earlier dancing days. - sense of community in case of a need - It is an important link that connects dancers all over the world. - Interesting thoughts! - Don't know any comparable forum. - It is a unique resource. It might not be as important as in the earlier days due to other formats but it still fills a need. - There doesn't seem to be any other outlet at this point. - It's helped me when I travel. Great advice is shared. - i still meet dancers for the first time who remember arguing with me on the list - If the moderation can be consistent. I don't have a problem with rude arguments, but however you decide it's going to be, stick with it. - Additional forum - to exchange opinion, news, videos, etc. - If there is no cost to anyone, and someone is OK about being admin, then why not? - because it is the most intelligent discussion around - Future generations of tango dancers, but it may need a different form. SHOULDN'T CONTINUE - Facebook groups is what I do mostly now - Regretfully, I think, based on the few postings, that it has lived its life. - realistically, I think it has been replaced by Facebook - Doesn't seem like there is the interest/there are other options - Its time has passed. - I've been on the list since 1996. It has outlived its self. - Alternative medium to Facebook, etc. - other formats work? Facebook,local lists - posters have moved elsewhere - obsolete, replaced by social media - outlived 'state-of-art' functionality and purpose - Probably not, given lack of posts which were in addition to those below (previously posted). > SHOULD CONTINUE > - I miss it > - It helps me keep up my interest > - Because I'm not on Fadcebook [sic] and similar things. > - Read sometimes interesting postings > - I love discussions on tango > - I was one of those people that thought for a while that Tango-L should just > die a quiet, if very sad, death. However, I could not bring myself to delete > all the mails, nor to actually unsubscribe. Somewhere in the recesses of my > mind, Tango-L occupies a special place. And I can't let go. > > SHOULDN'T CONTINUE > - no traffic > - platforms have shifted a while ago > - Interest seems to be lacking. > - List serves such as Tango-L are a relic of the past. On the question "Why don't you post to Tango-L yourself?" there were only two missing comments: - I'm mostly on Facebook now. - Don't get notices anymore; had problems getting occasional posts to go through. Shahrukh P.S. One more survey results post coming up, on the General comments. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Tango-L Survey Part 4: What Tango fora ARE people using now?
On the question as to what other Tango fora people were using (or had in the last 3 years), about 1/2 the respondents had one and just under half of those had two. Here is the breakdown of the groups by number. Here is the breakdown along with a "quality" designation by the respondents (Active(+)=Active and interesting, Active(-)=Active but uninteresting or annoying, Light=Light Traffic, Dead=Essentially Dead) 23 Facebook Total - Breakdown below 4 Tango Dinosaurs on FB - Light(4) 2 Terpsi on FB - Active(+)(2) 2 Fifi on FB - Light(1), Active(+)(1) 2 Tango Reformation Party on FB - Light(1), Active(+)(1) 1 Asociation Internacional de Tango on FB - Active(+) 1 New Generation Tango on FB - Active(+) 1 Flor de Tango on FB - Active(-) 1 El Corte on FB - Light(1) 1 Tango Revolution - Active(-) 9 Various/unspecified on FB - Dead(2), Light(3), Active(-)(1), Active(+)(3) 7 TangoDJ - Dead(1), Light(5), Active(+)(1) 2 ATOF - Light(2) 2 Tango Lyrics - Dead 2 Danceforums - Active+(2) 1 Tango Connections - Dead 1 Tango-A - Light(1) 1 Couchsurfing - Light(1) 1 Google+ unspecified - Active(+) (5 listed local groups, but since the instructions requested excluding them--most Tango dancers would be on their local groups to find out about stuff going on--these are not listed above.) Nothing emerges as an obvious candidate to recommend for people seeking a (written) Tango fix somewhere, but some of you may wish to try these out. The most active individual group was TangoDJ, which now seems to be essentially inactive as well. Facebook altogether had 23 respondents, but no individual group had more than 4. No group was rated "Active and Interesting" by more than 2 people. The overall "quality" ratings were as follows (but probably the individual ratings above are more useful). 30% Active and Interesting 10% Active but boring/spammy/annoying 45% Light Traffic 15% Dead My own opinion is that Facebook groups are useless for anything like a discussion. They are fine for publicity or as a blog alternative if there is one primary poster, but responses tend to be superficial at best, with 1- or 2-line commentary, invariably without any meaningful content. But that is the design of Facebook: quantity of "connections" (rather than quality of content). You're supposed to feel good that someone responded, however trivially, or even just "liked" your post. This may well be a good model, but it's not one conducive to discussion, intelligent or otherwise (nor, of course, designed or intended to be so). The other most active and popular groups seem to be blog-like in nature, with postings largely by one person. This is fine and could be interesting, though it is hierarchical and limited in the sense that there is just one main poster. Tango discourse seems to have disappeared (which is perhaps just a reflection of the maturity of the genre). Shahrukh ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] RIP Juan Carlos Cáceres | 1936-2015
A very nice write-up about Cáceres in Tangauta: Juan Carlos Cáceres | 1936-2015 (Español) | | | | | | | | | | | Juan Carlos Cáceres | 1936-2015 (Español)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAchvzkBrJ8 Músico, cantante, compositor, pintor (Buenos Aires, Argentina 4 SET 1936 – Périgny, Francia 5 ABR 2015)… | | | | View on www.tangauta.net | Preview by Yahoo | | | | | === seek, appreciate, and create beauty this life is not a rehearsal ich bin der Schmied meines eigenen Glücks === http://okvarbud.blogspot.com/ http://dbtango.blogspot.com/ http://dbpolitics.blogspot.com/ From: Christian Lüthen To: Tango L Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2015 2:48 AM Subject: [Tango-L] RIP Juan Carlos Cáceres | 1936-2015 RIP Juan Carlos Cáceres | 1936-2015 https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Carlos_C%C3%A1ceres . ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
