Re: [Tango-L] Lead and follow
Lois, Perhaps the answer lies in illustrating the followers technique in terms of the lead. For example, you know that you can show followers technique for beginning a step to the front, side or back. If I want to step, with my left foot, to my follower's left, I think in terms of followers technique. There is more room if I keep my weight on my right foot, pivot with my feet together and begin my step forward with my foot while my knees stay together. Contrast this with the back step where you really think of the leg straightening. My point is that a leader who practices followers technique can move so delicately in close to his/her followers space, keeping her feeling balanced and musical. I am rambling on. I just like to show, specifically, what your legs look like when you use great followers technique to take a front step, in crossed position. Use that movement as a teaser to get them into your class. At home, I am known to turn on Jackson Browne, for example, and practice small, delicate steps ... tucking one foot behind the other, fake steps, the step that I just described, etc. It teaches me to isolate my lower body from my upper body ... and it keeps followers technique in my "practice" routine. Hope that helps ... because, while I have never wanted to follow a man for any period of time, I do spend a lot of time practicing followers technique ... and I know that women wish the more men would do the same. I am such a big advocate of leaders learning to follow!! But how do you get men to understand this? I have a class on following attended by some leaders who are really committed to their dancing, and they are beginning to follow very well and it is showing up in their leading. But it is not attended by the people who need it - especially people who are teachers, or people who are teaching their followers (requested or not). How do you get leaders to work on following? Lois Donnay Minneapolis ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Dallas Milongas?
I can find a list of the Dallas milongas. But, can anyone tell me which ones are heavily attended by the better dancers? Thanks ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Leading with hands
With hands it > cannot be > smooth. AND with a bad lead I feel like I am being worked > like a slot > machine. Horrbyy. I think a follower's input will far out-weigh a leader's input on THIS subject! I wouldn't want my follower to feel horrbyy about MY lead! ;o) My example, in my previous post, was just an exercise. Thank you, Deby. (Watch out for the leaders with a pocket full of quarters!) ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Leading with arms or hands
> I always wondered what is wrong with a well executed lead > done utilizing or invoving as a complement other body parts > than the torso. > > Do you have an opinion in this respect? > > Notice that I said "well executed" lead. So > please do not include 'bad habits' of people that do > not know how to lead. > On placing my arms and hands in different places: Early on, I had a very stiff torsoe. Some very valuable instruction was to place my hands and arms on various places on my follower's body. This worked wonders to free my mind from doing everything the same way all the time. Imagine, for example, placing your right hand on her left shoulder. Lead from your center, but, notice how much more aware you are of yourself and of her motion. On leading with my belly: My left foot has been hurting for years, now. At times, I will take one dance and let my belly be the connection point. Now, I am thin, so, I have to go out of my way to make it more pronounced. But, (1) it takes a lot of pressure off my foot and (2) my partner loves the change. Actually, it makes me more aware of leading a more dramatic molinete. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Homer Ladas
> >From his bio: > "Homer Ladas is currently an inventive enthusiast of the "One Tango" school > which attempts to study, integrate, and balance what's 'new' with what's > 'traditional'. " I just wanted to comment that Homer is one of those unique dancers who is innovative, yet, when in his presence, he dances so well that I was able to just watch and learn. That isn't always the case for me, being 6 feet tall, to adapt the techniques of someone who is quite a bit shorter. What he does, he does with clean precision! I even took one of his classes, with my short (obviously) 8-year old daughter and we were able to perform his intricate moves quite easily. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Is tango sexy?
I have always said, "Salsa is the sexiest dance in the world and tango is the most passionate dance in the world." I know. I didn't answer your question. :o) ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] ....who am I going to learn from? ..and when??
Ooops! I think my last post was an accidental hitting of the send button without actually typing something. Mario said a couple of things that I wanted to comment on: Mario: "please, lower and don't move your shoulders because I'm trying to feel the step and the rest interferes" I spent a year, or two, with women that knew me well enough giving me a signal when my shoulders tightened. Sometimes, they outright stroked my shoulders. They would also, as my teachers did, whisper for me to breath. I just wanted to say that you received very good advice. Any tightness in your shoulders will take the energy away from your center. I think some of the women, on here, could probably elaborate a lot more than I. Mario: "dances THE pattern that I am ready to assimilate" I just wanted to comment that, yes, too, will look at some patterns. But, much more powerful is when you notice the intensity, or energy, that a great dancer has and try that on for size. It will never be the same. But, it is a great way to learn to get your heart and soul into the tango. This will help you much more, in my opinion, toward bettering yourself as a slow dancer. I remember in my second year of dancing, there was this guy with more intensity than I have ever seen. I am not sure if he spoke English. I never saw him talk. Actually, I never saw him dance with anyone but his girlfriend (or wife?). Anyway, I used to pick a song and "mimick" him. Wow! My brows were knit, my left hand was high like his, my posture was upright like I was flexing. That's what I saw. That's what I did! I don't dance like that often. But, time and time, again, I will pick a song and dance like him. When I do, it is the most intense dance of my night. Other times, I will picture some of the great dynamic dancers that I have seen in the past and I will, as my private instructor advised, try to dance like them. It is the most instrumental technique that I have to, I guess, break myself off of a plateau. Sometimes, I emulate patterns and steps. That's great, too. But, to become a master of feeling the music, look around and observe those who ... bring the music to life. Look for those who swell into a long, dynamic step. Look for those who noticably dance behind the beat. Etc. Ugh! Here I am sitting home on a Saturday night while everyone else is out at the milonga and I had to go and write that! Well, at least, I am listening to Gotan Project while writing! ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] ....who am I going to learn from? ..and when??
--- On Sat, 7/12/08, Mario <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Mario <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [Tango-L] who am I going to learn from? ..and when?? > To: tango-l@mit.edu > Date: Saturday, July 12, 2008, 8:01 PM > OK, this is my last post for the week ..number 4 or 5 ..but > I'm keeping within the rules > and to thank Huck for his enlightening post, I will not > whine nor complain... > I am about to complete 10 months of sufferingly trying to > learn to dance the Slooo Tango. > and it's time for a report. I danced with a male > follwer this week (repugnant because I > am dancing Tango to 'feel like a man') and he > said to me "please, lower and don't move > your shoulders because I'm trying to feel the step > and the rest interferes") ..just like a > follower...throws tea on the fire...anyway, it seemed > like good advice but now I find that > when I control my shoulders, I deaden my dance... what do > you advise? >I live in Phila. and am lucky to have some darn good > instructors..I almost did the dreaded > change of life of prefering classes to > Milongas...(Chris)..but I'm still going to both. >I notice that it's not the best dancer that I learn > from by watching..but rather the one of > my similar body type who dances THE pattern that I'm > ready to assimulate..learn..and > he dances it slow and sloppy enough for me to see it in > all it's glory..what do you think? >Anyway, I could do a few more posts on this subject but > I ran out of posts this week.. > see you next week. sincerely, Flaco Mario > > > ___ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Will close embrace go the way of the dinosaur?
Actually, I disagree that nuevo will decrease. It may not be called nuevo, but it will still be there. The reasons are simple. Nuevo classes (or, really, classes with tricky patterns) are popular. That drives the nuevo scene. But, also, we are all better at some things than others in this dance. The majority of men find it easier to go down the path of excelling at tricky moves than at becoming smooth. And, finally, women don't, typically, complain to the guy's face that he is throwing her around. So, without that knowledge, they will keep doing what "they are good at", so to speak. Here are two intersting questions: 1. What percentage of guys have looking good and having fun on the top of their minds? 2. What percentage of guys have being softer and softer on the top of their list? I would guess that #1 far outweighs #2. It is what it is! ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Will close embrace go the way of the dinosaur?
Mario says ... "My turn-on is the connection. The music is wonderful but the Tango connection is like making love, even better in some ways." Mario, you answered your own question. There are enough leaders and followers that desire that smooth, soft tango to make the world go around. Don't worry about nuevo. It's there because it is great. And, just because it IS there doesn't mean that people don't want passion! ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Qualifying Tango Instructors.
--- Brick Robbins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Why look no further! > > Such a program already exists, right here in the > Tango Mecca of San > Diego, California! Yippee! Patterns! That's just goofy. Imagine someone who could teach part of what is on those lists better than everyone else in town, but could care less about the rest of it, because his students were learning faster than everyone else's. Are you going to "label" him, or her, a Bronze teacher? THAT, my friends, is ballroom. Tango is an art. If you love patterns, go ahead and call yourself a red, yellow or green-level teacher. Those labels are just advertising, business building, fodder. I am going to the class that is taught by the artist. Wow! Imagine if Van Gogh couldn't remember patterns! Better not study HIS artwork! Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Qualifying Tango Instructors.
--- Floyd Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Neat subject, eh? :-) > So how about testing instructors for their > competance in teaching > Tango? etc ... That is wrong/bad/intrusive on so many different levels! Neat subject? No!!! You can't be serious in bringing this up! Here's a great example ... Imagine a committee of folks from this list, just as an example, teaming together to say that YOU cannot teach because YOU do not teach like THEM. Now ... is YOUR stomach turning as much as mine? Now, imagine a group of people from halfway across the world taking away your passion. If you have students that like your teaching, they will go to the teacher with either a very particular style (to pass inspection) or to the teacher who has an in with people in BsAs. My God! Big brother is coming to shut you down! Let the community decide! Let the students decide and let THIS subject go! Sorry, Floyd! This subject is revolting! I mean, have the discussion. But, it DOES go against every grain in MY body! Even super-structured ballroom doesn't have that! Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] weight change
Floyd, I haven't had a chance to read your lengthy posts, lately. However, last week, someone posted that your video (seeing you dance) suggests ... whatever ... about your teaching. My comment to that is, "Yeah, right!" How many times have I sat and watched and commented to an advanced follower, "Hey, he looks pretty good.", and get the reply, "Not really. He throws me around." I wrote something similar to that a couple of months ago and someone wrote back saying something like, "It takes advanced skill to be able to see ..." In my opinion, some of the greatest aspects of a leader's dance cannot be seen as well as they can be felt. I didn't respond, last week. But, now, it seems like a good time. Your recent posts, like other posts, are insiteful. And, I agree. A leader can change weight umteen times without leading the follower to change weight. How many times have we leaders done a back, side, front while leading the follower to just take a back step? I agree. The follower's weight change is led. I agree that, in open embrace, newer followers will look down and take extra unled steps. I just wanted to say that I do intend, when I find the time, to go back and read through your posts. They are insiteful. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] on open-embrace teaching (was something on inventing steps)
Actually, Mario, If they were to teach (maybe, they do), they would break down a few 6 or 8 step sequences (patterns) and teach the steps and the feel from those. Again, across the great USA, the teachers with the most successful classes are going out and finding 6 or 8 step patterns that are tricky or elegant and bringing them back home. Why? Because that is how you keep men in your classes. The men don't, as a norm, see that they are learning finnesse. They see that they are learning a pattern that they can show off. However, if you go to the class looking for the finnesse, the feel, you can get just as much out of the class. *** Welcome back !!! *** --- Mario <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Trini, >The last part of your email/post; > "I know they'll be folks on their no-pattern, > just-dancing > blah blah blah kick, but I just figure their tango > is as > limited as their thought processes. I'd rather not > see > that happen with you." > ...leaves me troubled. I am one who believes in > no-pattern, just-dancing...(blah, blah, blah?) > Perhaps, there is just a misunderstanding in > terms... someone kindly sent me these videos > of Osvaldo Ceneno dancing Tango. > > http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Osvaldo+Centeno+y+Ana+Maria+Schapira+&search_type= > I would point at these two dances as being > no-pattern, just-dancing...would you?? > Sure there is a cut ocho or two but does that > disqualify it? > ..and if it is a no-pattern, just-dancing style of > dance, what is there to complain about? > ..that it is unteachable by you? You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Torso (hips)
For clarity: 1. The teacher was out in front of the class and we were doing an exercise. So, yes, I could see her hips. I wasn't dancing with her. 2. You're right. Someone once explained to me that (not sure of the spelling), the Tai Chien (just below the navel?) is the center of one's body ... not the hips. At the time, I was a young student and happened to notice that watching her hips gave me great reflexes. And, I couldn't see her navel because I was behind her. --- Jake Spatz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Tango For Her wrote: > > --- Dubravko Kakarigi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > >> When I teach and demonstrate something, either > with > >> a group or individually, I insist on folks paying > >> attention to my torso [...] and my hipwork > > That is SO true. > Come on... this is soccer lesson #1. Don't watch the > ball, watch the > guy's navel. He can fake you out with everything > except that. > > Watching her hips allowed me to experience some > really cool musicality. > Not sure how you could see her hips while you're > dancing with her, TFH, > but... well, let's just hope it wasn't salsa > musicality. You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] foot in mouth disease
I receive insulting posts. Mario receives insulting posts. I see posts, all the time, that are insulting AND HAVE NO PLACE ON THIS LIST! So, Charles, and others who want to rank on Mario, re-read Charles' post and look in the mirror. Mario made a mistake. But, Mario doesn't deserve emails like Charles' email when it is other people who are provoking! Continuously throw rocks at a dog and when the dog finally snaps back at you, put him to sleep. Nice! Real nice! Take your foot out of your own mouth! I get privately praised by people all the time for being nice and taking your bull. People want constructive posts and applaud me (and, I am sure, others) for dealing with all of the provoking, insulting posts. So, sorry if I can't sit back and watch YOU punch and belittle Mario. Give me a break! Don't throw rocks if you live in a glass house. Charles, take your own advise. Stop sending posts that belittle others. Do what I do, often. I'll write the post and email it to myself. I did that, yesterday, with an email that I was going to broadcast back to Stephen. I sent it to myself. Why? Because if I sent it to all of you, I would be doing what you do. Bringing down the level of quality on Tango-L. Don't you get it? Everytime you publicly scold someone, you make yourself look like, well, you have your blinders on, anyway. So, you won't understand. Man! I CANNOT believe that YOU would be telling the whole world that Mario needs to watch what he writes! YOU! You write some great posts. Why in the world are you "putting other people in their place" all the time? You don't carry any weight, in THAT area, with us! You are NOT the worst offender. But, YOU telling others not to be like Mario is pathetic. FURTHERMORE: Charles said: ... too often the most vehement, intense and argumentative are the ones by new dancers and beginners whose rhetoric far outweighs their actual experience. Even worse, they may be, and often are, wrong. Many advanced and sophisticated dancers read this list but don't post, in part because of these kinds of responses. PLEASE, allow me to inform you. People write to me, privately. When I ask why they don't post to the group, they say that they don't want to be bullied and scolded by, well, for example, you! Are you really trying to tell us that people don't post because of Mario? Look in the mirror! Your last email should be retracted! Mario is worth a lot more to this group than either you or me!!! Mario is a true leader! You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Torso
--- Dubravko Kakarigi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > When I teach and demonstrate something, either with > a group or individually, I insist on folks paying > attention to my torso (including my embrace) and my > hipwork (is there such a word? like footwork?) and > only secondarily to my legs and feet > That is SO true. Back when I took a lot of classes, I noticed something that helped a lot. Sometimes, the teacher would have us follower her down the floor, mimmicking her movements, her steps. If I watched her feet, just like everyone else, I could not react quickly enough and would make a lot of mistakes. If I watched her hips, I rarely made mistakes. She was moving from her center. Nice! Lesson learned! She was doing these cool little step sequences and embellishments to the music. Watching her hips allowed me to experience some really cool musicality. You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Do I have to invent every step of the dance, even her's ???
Wow! I must say, with all the low-ball trashing that goes on here, you guys are picking Mario apart? Mario? I don't blame him. I would say that I probably had the same upbringing as Mario. Be nice unto others. He seems to be one of the few frequent posters to hold himself to that standard. Go ahead and team up against Mario. I still applaud him, because he seems to be THE BEST AND NICEST PERSON ON HERE! So, he lost his temper and swore. That's nothing compared to the misquotes and just plain fabrication of stories just to make someone look bad. THAT GOES ON ALMOST DAILY! Mario was just ticked off at some of the low-ball hate that goes on. Get off his case I'm sure someone is going to write back and slam me, because, as Mario was saying, that's what goes on here. Can't anyone find kind words to say to Mario? Only one other poster wrote back with kind words for him. That's pathetic considering how much he has done for all of you! Again, thank you, Mario, for who you are and what you have done for us! *** What? Am I wrong? Can you find a nicer frequent-poster on this list? *** --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > As for your swearing at a lady ... well, I guess > we had different upbringings. > > > > Keith, > > thank you very much for this reminder on respectful > behaviour. > Seems as if such a reminder is needed, because the > swearing > seems to have been overlooked by previous posters. > > So, dear gentlemen, if you easily lose your temper > when confronted with an opinion that is contrary to > yours, > please take more time to think before pressing the > button. > > Let's not forget that respect is crucial - in life > as in the dancing. > > Anna > > > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Do I have to invent every step of the dance, even her's ???
Stephen, I wasn't describing an exchange of lead and follow. I might be taking it wrong. But, it almost seems as though you are lashing out calling me a dominating leader. Please, read my post for what it was. A clear cut example. Don't twist what I was saying. I was describing that I lead a boleo and seconds go by, many, many seconds, while she does her embellishment. During that time, nothing was led. No conversation was taking place. She, simply, created the space to invent. Exactly what Mario was asking about. I didn't say there was anything wrong with that. I said I don't prefer it. Again, I was giving an example where the follower takes/makes the room to invent. The example was from a couple of occassions of dancing with a couple of women that went on to do quite well at show tango. I'm proud of them. And, I wasn't talking about "dominating". That's a different story, a different thread. And, for the record, there are a lot of little conversations that go on that are, more or less, led by my followers. And, I LOVE them! Oh, and, it definitely wasn't exhange of lead and follow. She wasn't leading me to do anything. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > "Tango for Her" wrote: > >Occassionally, I have led very advanced followers > who, > >when I lead a boleo, for example, pretty much, take > >over the dance. No room for conversation. > > You mean there's no longer room for the conversation > that you direct. An > exchange of lead and follow, with or without a > change of embrace, is a > different way to converse--one that is less > dominated by the so-called > leader. > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Do I have to invent every step of the dance, even her's ???
Mario wrote: ... do I have to know exactly what the follow is to do at all times? Is there no 'creative space' where the lead can open his stance and just let the follow invent?? I read that you received some good responses. I haven't read through those, yet. First, I just wanted to say that your subject "Do I have to invent every step of the dance, even her's ???" makes me want to give the simple response: You suggest where she is going to step and, as she moves through the step, she is using her follower's technique and musicality to do her movement. So, while you invented what you want to do, every woman is inventing right back at you. Second, regarding you question, "Is there no 'creative space' where the lead can open his stance and just let the follow invent??", there IS creative space. Here is an example that I, actually, don't like, but, extremely good followers are doing it, so it does exist. Occassionally, I have led very advanced followers who, when I lead a boleo, for example, pretty much, take over the dance. No room for conversation. I could eat a sandwich while waiting for them to finish. (Yes, and exaduration. But, you get my point.) Now, I prefer that the dance be about the connection. However, those women are actually quite good at show tango. So, there you have it. There IS creative space and some followers use it quite well. You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] I applaud you, Mario
Was: Too many videos spoil the dance. Mario, I've told you this privately. I guess it might be appropriate to say this publically. I applaud you for driving this group by giving them some very interesting questions and observations. You are learning, not just because you are watching all of those videos, but also because you have all of these online instructors answering your questions ... for FREE!!! And, I bet many members on this list (including those answering your questions) are learning a lot. Don't stop watching those videos! It definitely is NOT a "VERY serious mistake"! I, for one, am jealous that you have the time, energy and healthy feet to do all that you are doing. Once in a while, Mario gets beat down (a little or a lot) by some responses. I wonder, for Mario's sake EVERYONE OUT THERE ... DON'T YOU AGREE THAT MARIO IS MAKING THIS LIST MORE USEFUL AND IS, PROBABLY, LEARNING A LOT FROM THOSE VIDEOS (ESPECIALLY, GIVEN THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE MANY (OR ANY?) LOCAL TEACHERS AVAILABLE? Again, I applaud you, Mario!!! --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > sopelote wrote (among other things): > > <<>> > > Talk about a subject that won't die, or better yet, > advice that is never > heeded. It is a very serious mistake to attempt to > learn tango from videos > unless you are already a VERY advanced dancer. > Many beginners continue to do this > and continue to wonder why it doesn't work when they > do it. > I think what happened to you was just a good example > of why you > shouldn't...and where did you get the notion that > making your chest concave would somehow > make you dance better?!? No wonder your followers > can't follow you. Apilado > has nothing to do with it. Stop watching so many > videos and learn from a real > person, or better yet, practice what you already > know (or don't know well) > because you still seem to have too many basic > problems yet. > > Charles > > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Where are her feet and where is her weight?
A quick answer, without getting too deep: When I dance, I am always concentrating on my follower's free leg. I am not focussing on my feet. --- Mario <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Last night, I did not dance well. Certain > 'mistakes' are starting to repeat > themselves...ie: turning or stepping to my left > when the woman's weight is > on her right foot and I am not leading an > ocho...ugh..I did that around three > times in different dances..it makes for an ubrupt > halt to the flow...duh. > So, I'm thinking that I have gotten too loose and > am letting my consciousness > go wherever it feels like it...the music, the > other dancers, etc. etc.. and so, > I stumble into a mistake. > My question is to the men and women who dance > close embrace. >I'd like to hear any feedback from women about > being conscious of the lead's >consciousness of her weight placement...anything > at all would help. > And I'd like to hear from the Men; How do you > keep the woman's weight/foot placement > in front of your consciousness at all times? Do > you keep reminding yourself of it? > Have you found a way to incorporate it into the > whole feel of your dance? > Is there a trick to it that you've discovered?..Do > you visualize it (without looking down) > somehow??.. all comments appreciated.. > > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Not leading vs.leading the cross
I remember in classes, the discussions of leading versus automatic movement relative to the cross. But, as you mature, from the leader's point of view, there is no automatic cross. If you want her to cross, then you lead such that the path of her upper body suggests that the left foot should pass in front of the right. If you do not want her to cross, you lead with a strong enough intention so as to communicate to your follower that her foot should not cross. There is a gray area in between. That gray area is the "automatic" area for followers. They have been taught that it is (can be) automatic, so they, typically, choose to cross. That's fine. I DO think that a lot of leaders are thinking in terms of "automatic" and, therefore, aren't thinking in terms of clarity for the woman. So, to come around full circle, there shouldn't be any "automatic" thinking for the leader. There should only be the awareness that there is "automatic" thinking by the follower. And, even at that, "automatic" is a bad word. Doing what someone (a lot of people) called the "protocol" is a better way to put it. With all that said, it is still an improvised dance, an improvised dance where accurateness sure makes it so that the follower doesn't have to help the leader do his part by operating in automatic mode to cover for the leader who is leading with ambiguity! You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] I'm starting to see the pauses
Mario, A private lesson can give you a lot of detail on "feel" in this dance. So, when it is available to you, my advise it to put your chest on the chest of a very good dancer. Here's an example that might help you to believe what I am saying. I had signed up for a week-long series of privates in close embrace. There was something that I wasn't getting. It was quite a while ago. I think it was that I wasn't moving far enough forward so that she could complete her cross correctly. Anyway, she finally led me. WOW! In all the words that she could say, I wasn't getting it. It was a much stronger lead than I imagined. I had the same experience in a workshop led by a milonguero from BsAs. (I don't remember who). But, my partner dragged me over to him and said, "Show him" to the instructor. Again, wow, what a strong lead! And, again, all the words in the world weren't showing me. So, my advice is, now and then, when there is something having to do with feel, and you CAN find a good teacher to dance in close embrace with, do it! It works!!! By the way, I'm surprised all of the Basic-8 teachers haven't spoken up. In the basic pattern, the 2 and 5 positions are natural places to pause ... well, natural places to teach the pause. Your partner will appreciate it. You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] On similes and such like...
Mash wrote: Similes; some women which I feel have taken the most offence to these; take pause before you heap prejudice on a man's comments. Allow us men, humbly to think out aloud and allow us the poetic license to describe the moments with you. I just want to add something. Back when I wrote about "moving my follower like a brush on a canvas" and women responded taking offense, I got their point of view. I, definitely, could have said things differently. Yesterday, I wrote something and it struck Nancy a certain way and I got it. And, I am a better person for getting it. I think it was okay that Nancy responded the way she did. I wrote to her, personally, to better understand. I hope everyone can let personal matters be personal matters until both parties understand. It makes the world a better place! And, by the way, I didn't find anything wrong with Mash's post. I just found it to be thought-provoking. You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] ..where did the balance go?
I read Nancy's possibility and, right away, knew that her's was more appropriate, for the situation, than mine. When I got to her last paragraph, gulp, I knew she was talking to me. Lesson learned. Thank you, Nancy. --- NANCY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Let's assume another possibility. That Mario, a > student of tango of only six months who, by his own > admission, learns mostly from YouTube, might not > have > a good axis or balance or leading ability himself. > Remember he is in a community where there are no > teachers according to him. He might have a floppy > left arm and a pushing hand, he might raise his > right > shoulder and do the 'teapot' action on her, he might > be overleading her with his arms, he might be > tentative in his own body movements . Unless the > lady > falls over when standing by herself, she might have > perfect control of her own balance and axis and > movement until it is disturbed by some man. > > I will also point out that milonga steps are quite > small while some newbies love to do long, reaching, > performance steps to slow tangos and cannot keep > their > own balance when they do so. If they don't lower > and > soften their knees, they launch the lady like a > catapult. Maybe he is using her for support. > > I am pretty fed up with some men on this list who > believe that women have nothing to contribute and > that, because women die to dance with them in their > own insular communities, that makes them experts. > Go > to a major festival or BsAs and see how good you > are. > Some of the best US teachers are there - taking as > many classes as they teach every weekend. > > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] ..where did the balance go?
Mario, You asked a good question. I'll try and answer it, again, a little more simply. If she is unbalanced when she dances slow tangos, then, it's a good guess that she is using you for support. Putting it simply, concentrate on giving her your center. Let the middle of your chest be her contact point. Let the middle of your chest be YOUR focus. If she is using your left hand to keep her balance, then, take that crutch away from her. It's YOUR dance, too. YOU can choose to give her a beautiful tango, a tango where the connection comes from your center. In doing all of this, she will enjoy a much more beautiful tango. Why? Because the two of you will be connected in thought, effort and balance at your centers. Beautiful tango comes from your center. She will become more balanced. Never make anyone feel uncomfortable. Always strive to give them a more beautiful dance. Personally, I have found that to be true with the above advice. If anyone feels otherwise, then constructive criticism is always welcome. I hope this helps. And, by the way, I've been dancing for somewhere between 5 days and 50 years. I don't think about it much beyond that. Life is too good to spend my time worrying about such trivia. OMG, Sweet deal for Yahoo! users/friends:Get A Month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. W00t http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text2.com ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] ..where did the balance go?
This isn't THE answer to your question, but let me add this ... I have always said that the leader and the follower both have the same job: - The leader's job is to keep the follower balanced. - The follower's job is to keep herself balanced. I could elaborate on the leader's part: The leader: - Should never do anything to upset the follower's balance. - Should not allow the follower to use his body for balance. So, if she ever uses your left hand to keep herself balanced, make your left arm go, more or less, limp. Take that crutch away from her. If she leans on your right shoulder or grabs at your back with her left hand, make up an excuse, tell her you have a bad shoulder. Yes, the more appropriate advise might be to not dance with her. But, if you are going to dance with her, take that crutch away from her. All in all, you job is to take her crutches away. I believe that without those crutches, she will find her own balance. She probably doesn't know why she is having that problem. But, now YOU do! In quicker dances, like milonga, the is forced to keep her body more vertical just to keep up with her feet. That is, if she gets off balanced, she'll never keep up. S, obviously, she CAN keep herself balanced. She just has bad habits that take over when she slows down. Take her crutches away! Good luck! --- Mario <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There is a woman that I dance with in the local > Milonga. > She is tall and about ten pounds > overweight..(medical standard) > She has been taking classes for a couple of years. > Her balance when dancing a slow tango is fatal. > She almost falls over when doing a simple side > step. > It's all I can do to keep her upright. > However, in the Milonga (song) she dances as good > as anyone > and better. We dance closely and she never > misses a step and her balance/axis is never a > problem. > I would like to talk to her about this difference > in her dance > but I really don't understand it myself. > Can anyone (women especially) give me some idea of > what could produce such a big difference in her > quality > of dance and perhaps how to get her slow tango > more > towards the balance and sureness of her Milonga ?? > thanks! Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Who invented the basic step?
Actually, I think, if you dance like Chicho, it's the inside of your foot first. But, seriously, is it okay to scratch your nose in the middle of a dance? Or, should you be like Rambo and tough it out? (Actually, Mario, good questions. I'm just getting a little punchy at work and the Martin and David comedy hour is pretty funny! Actually, Martin's way out of the basic-8 topic deserves a Nobel Prize!) --- David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Martin, > > Thanks for clearing that up. Now could you tell us, > is it Toe First or Heel First? > > David > > > > From: Martin Waxman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [Tango-L] Who invented the basic step? > To: tango-l@mit.edu > > > I've been following this discussion for a while, > and I have an admission. > I did. > I'm sorry. > Please forgive me. > > Now, let's talk about something else. > > M Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] followers expressiveness
--- Michael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Jackie: > You are writing about the confluence of technique, > musicality, and emotion. I'm skipping technique. > > First, musicality. My teacher helped me think > outside the box. He put on music, and said "Now > dance, ALONE!" The first time I danced like a > leader. Then he said, "Next time, dance like a > follower." The third time, he said "Now interchange > between lead and follower's roles." The next time he > said "Do an ocho and go the other way. Don't worry > about line of dance. You're the only one dancing in > your house." I was leading myself. Because I was > dancing alone, there was no partner to worry about. > Followers need to hear the music for themselves, so > they should practice by themselves. Now, they can't > say "the leader rushed me or didn't give me a change > for an adornment." > I do this, at home, with the shades drawn. I think through leads and I study follower's technique. I like to practice to Jackson Browne because it makes me dance tight, small follower's technique like what would occur in close embrace. And, that helps my leading ability greatly. As for applying this to teach followers about adding musicality to the exchange ... I hadn't thought of that. I suppose that dancing different size steps with different feels, alone, would be a great exercise. I had teachers lead us through the type of exercises that Michael wrote about. It was very, very helpful. Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] followers expressiveness
I also wanted to express that my two favorite partners, over the years, are very, very expressive. One danced a lot of salsa quite well and the other danced a lot of hustle, and other dances, quite well ... for what that matters. Also, I don't think there is any small number of exercises that can be stated for teaching followers expressiveness. I think it comes from followers really wanting it and teachers really teaching it ... a lot. And, I'll bet that cross training amongst different types of dances helps ... especially where, in tango, followers are treated as extras in the classes ... so the leaders can be accomodated. So, hurray to Jackie for asking! I hope something comes of this! Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] followers expressiveness
On teaching musicality through the step ... I play blues guitar, specifically slow, bending blues. A lot of my movement, in dance, is similar to the way my left hand bends the strings. It's a lot like the curves from the webpage that I mentioned. Eric Clapton, and others, sometimes, use a wah-peddle. I think he used it, a lot, with Cream. Can anyone think of a song where he uses it a lot? Anyway, if anyone can find a good piece of music where the wah-peddle is used and you can try some tango exercises moving through a step with the same feel as the wah-peddle, let us know. I am working a lot, these days, and won't have a chance to look for a good piece. So, again, if anyone wants to experiment with this, let us know. I bet Jimmy Hendricks had some examples. Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] followers expressiveness
I get a lot of resistance from teachers on here, but, I still feel that there are a couple of things lacking from traditional teaching. Just mark this down as thinking outside the box. (1) Teach a class where the leader indicates the direction and feel of the step, the follower steps and the leader follows the follower through the step. Experiment with various types of music. Instruct the follower throughout the class on musicality. Let the leader be along for the ride. Why not? Teachers always set the follower up to be the extra in the class. Have the leader follow the follower through the step. (2) Remember my post on making the pivot be more important than steps? Okay. Using #1, above, teach the follower to move in and out of the pivot musically. Yes, teach the leader, too. But, I am all for teaching the follower and send them out to the milongas with feel. Then, the leaders will feel it through them! Can you spot the people, at milongas, that move with varying feels (energies) into and out of the pivot? Sit and watch. There are probably only a few in your community. Yes, NYC, Denver, and others will have more. One time, my partner invited an advanced leader from another community to our milongas for the weekend. I love my partner. She has what Jackie wants to teach. I gave her all the space in the world. Later, I said, So? She said, I miss that feel. No kidding. I was watching. He had a great variety of leads. For sure, I sat and, mentally, took notes. But, I knew he was missing one thing: He wasnt changing the feel as he moved through a step. You know? Give her some passion! Cool leads are, well, cool! Passionate movements are musical to the n-th degree. Here, go to this webpage: http://www.2dcurves.com/exponential/exponential.html Click on the various exponential links. Teach your leaders and followers to feel the music according to different curves. Let the x-axis be distance through the step. Let the y-axis be speed, emphasis, energy, anything other than the boredom of constant speed and energy! Create exercises where they dance to the violin, the voice, etc. Create exercises where they think of dancing heavy, like a clown, etc. AND, give examples derived from those curves. Make it fun! Let it by funny! And, above all, stop teaching just the leader! The follower paid, too! --- jackie ling wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > as most people on this list know, i lead and i > follow. i have been > told that one of my best qualities as a dancer is my > ability to > express myself musically. to quote someone... "you > dance the music". > this is not through only embellishments. > > now, i have led many followers... and there are > followers who just > follow which is nice and then there are followers > who dance with > you who dance melodically... and hear the notes > that are > emphasized and can translate that to their dance. > it feels like they > are reading my mind because my expression in the > dance becomes so > easy. her/his boleo considers not only the time of > the movement but > the energy, how the beat is used (emphasized at the > beg. of the > beat...etc)... it feels like painting. > > i probably am not expressing this correctly and > please don't give me > grief for that. in fact, if someone can express it > better, i would > love to hear it. > > my question... how do you teach this? is there an > exercise that can > help people understand what i am saying? > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Advertising - NYTimes.com: Argentine Nights
Here are a couple of examples: Ballroom is fun to watch, but Argentine tango is THE social dance! Don't you agree? Contact us for lessons at www.YourTangoSite.com, (111)555-1212, or stop by and see for yourself! or Men, women watch ballroom on TV. But, they are passionate about the real Argentine tango. Contact us for lessons at www.YourTangoSite.com, (111)555-1212, or stop by and see for yourself! You won't turn away! http://travel.nytimes.com/2008/03/16/travel/16buenos.html?ex=1206417600 Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Advertising - NYTimes.com: Argentine Nights
Man! Is it just me or is that the best picture you've ever seen for advertising tango? Damn! I wanna learn! I think communities should look into getting the rights to using it and think of a great caption to lure men into the sport! Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Shoulder problems
I just saw a post response about the rotator cuff. I want to pass along some great shoulder-protection advice that I got. This would work as a warmup before dance, as well. I used to have moderate shoulder problems due to lifting weights. One day someone told me that everytime I begin a workout, I should begin with a simple warmup ... I use 8 pound weights. With elbows slightly bent, hold the weights out in front of you at about shoulder height. Bring your hands out to the side and back in front of you. I do this about 15 or 20 times. This gets the blood into your shoulders. Now, as I start my workout, my shoulders are more protected by blood. I am writing this because I have never had another day of shoulder problems since starting this about a year ago. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] plantar faciitis - possible solution
That's pretty wierd timing! I was just going to write an update email. Yesterday, I went to someone who specializes in body alignment, massage, etc. He showed me that, without my orthotics, my left side (with the bad foot) is quite a bit lower than the right side at the knee, hips and, a bit at my chest, finally correcting at my ears. This creates a C-shape in the spine. He showed me that one side is more forward than the other (I forget which -- I was looking in the mirror AND am dyslexic.). He even showed me that my left ear sticks out more than my right! Then, I put my shoes, with orthotics, on. That discrepency was much smaller. So, the arch in my left foot had fallen. When one side of the body is higher than the other side, you step down to the shorter side making your weight transfer to the inside of your foot as you leave it, thus stressing the foot. (I am being vague about which foot because, as I am writing this, I realize that, again, in looking in the mirror, I have my left and right mixed up ... just like in tango workshops!) So, I have stressed a part of my foot and leg. The plantar fascia is actaully a part of the achillis tendon. This gets narrow at the heal, goes under the heal and and fans out under the foot, reaching to the toes. It also fans out up well into the calf. He, very painfully, showed me that I have knots along the inside of the fascia from the big to right up the side of the shin. I knew about the ones under my foot and have been working them out for 2 months, now. Now, the next day, my leg is in pain all the way up the inside, half way up the calf. I will have repeat visits. I am to, 3 times a day, put a hot facecloth over the area for 15-30 seconds, to open the pours. Then, rub some anti-inflamatory on it. Once a day, I am to soak my foot in ice until numb for about 15 minutes before the procedure. The ointment has: ILEX, Glucosamine, MSM, Aloe, E, Curcuminoids, Boswellia Serrata and it is called Orthogel by Orthopedic Pharmaceuticals. I told him that I would do the same massaging up my calf that he did, between visits. But, man, does it hurt! I'll let it rest. I am "The Human Guinnea Pig". All I want is to get my tango back! ... is a lie! I want to be able to walk around the house an do chores! All I do is sit! I hope I've finally found the right doctor!!! --- meaning of life <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > a while back there was some discussion about plantar > faciitis. the person said that it was so painful > that massage, and other traditional and non > traditional options were not viable. the other day, > when doing some therapy work, the client (a hair > stylist and tango dancer) showed me some SPRING > heeled shoes. now these were some WIERD LOOKING > shoes, but he said that they FIXED his plantar > faciitis, and allowed him to dance with reckless > abandon, and this guy is a dancing maniac. > > http://www.zcoil.com/index.html > > if nothing else, you will be able to leap tall > buildings in a single bound. hope this helps some of > you out. > > dance on > > david Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] tall men in close embrace
I haven't had time to read through the posts. But, I have an interesting, probably, quite different, tid bit: I am 6 feet tall. Tall enough to comment. I have had a very bad left foot. So, I have learned to lead in rather different ways. Don't laugh! :o\ Here goes: I do this just once in a while to rest my foot. You know how older clocks are driven by wheels with cogs? One wheel turns clockwise and, because the cogs (teeth) are interconnected, the next wheel turns counter-clockwise. Well, if I make contact with my belly and turn my body counter-clockwise (turning to my left), I can, quite easily, lead my follower to turn her body clockwise (to her right). Then, as I slightly take my belly way and turn a bit further, she takes her front step. Women comment that "it is different" and "it is effective". They don't mind it and they know why I am doing it (compensating). I recommend teaching it only as a body-awareness exercise just as you should teach to change your embrace. Maybe, it would do the trick for a taller man with the problem mentioned by Jackie. Hey! I said don't laugh! --- jackie ling wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > i have two very tall guys... like alex krebs... in > my beginner close > embrace class. i have tried everything and still > they come very close > to stepping on their partner's feet. i can dance > with them because i > really extend but others have problems. they are > beginners so i > understand the problems with leaning extension, > intention etc at that > level. i also explain that you have to find the > connection with every > partner you dance with because size, height, embrace > is different with > each person. > > but... does anyone have any special advice that > they find resonates > with the "giants"? are there any differences? in > emphasis? > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Read This and Spread the Word !!!
Thank you Joanne! Ummm, Pay it Forward! ;o) --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > D. David Thorn wrote: > "So how do we do this?" > > IMHO, the?way for any dancer to improve their > community is to strive to be the best dancer that > they can be. > The journey is different for each person. > Support each other's journey and rejoice in?it. > Encourage each other to carry on. > Call up those dancers who have fallen away and > encourage them to come to the next milonga. > Tell them that you miss dancing with them. > Tell them it's not the same without them. > Everyone needs a community. > See you on the dance floor. > Joanne Pogros > Cleveland, Ohio Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Get real
Jake's long response, IMO, is the best of the long responses. Allow me to give my short response that, to me, sums it up: Argentine tango, at least the way I dance, is about the feeling. As Jake said, the patterns, etc, come after that. You could more closely relate A.T. to waltz than ballroom tango! By the way, if anyone writes back and says that ballroom is about the feeling, too. I would have to respond with, "No, I mean fling." Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Get real
Okay. Take it for what it is. You go to a ballroom studio and try to lead a ballroom tango "follower" in Argentine tango and they are off to the races, confused as all hell as to why you aren't moving! You go to a milonga, and the follower follows you. Leave it at that and this entire discussion can stop. Unless we want to move along to "Are dogs and cats alike?" Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Argentine Tango Dancer Census
--- Alex <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Not very many in the scheme of things...but that's > the way we want it, > right? > Hell, no! I want more! Take away the top handful of dancers in town and the quality really drops. Imagine if, instead of, as you say, 200 passionate dancers per town, there are 1000. That would extrapolate to 25 dancers of that same quality. More to go around. More improvement through osmosis. More nights of dancing. More teachers with enough students to fill a classroom. Better dancers. More passion! Imagine more and more and more leaders! All those women who used to sit no longer sit! More people means more teachers who can fill their classes. And, you KNOW what that means! More teachers means more teaching styles! More! More!! More!!! Sorry! I moved from a big city to a small city. Trust me. Bigger is better!!! Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Pointers Please
He probably meant that the leader changes weight without leading the follower to change weight, thus ending up in the crossed system. "Change Weight" - Good name for a diet book. --- Andy Ungureanu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Am 04.03.2008 19:50 schrieb David : > > > > The leader starts off with a side step to his > left, followed by an un-led weight change to get > into crossed system (a fairly common thing). > > > > > There is no such thing like a "un-led weight change" > except by > beginners. There is such thing like a subtle lead > that you don't see... > > Andy > ___ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Digital Video Cameras
I am seeking advice on the correct digital video camera to purchase for videoing my dance sessions. I want a video camera that is: - lower cost - easy to setup (attach a tripod, etc) - works well with less light as is usually the case in dance studios. - easy to transfer videos to dvd or to youtube. What specs should I be looking for? Any suggestions on certain brands/models? Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] BsAs glow (previously bad, wrong, Nuevo)
With all due respect ... WOW! I mean "due respect" because I'm sure we've each had our own experiences. But ... a woman has been dancing for a year or two. Her softness, her connection is at whatever stage it is. She goes to BsAs. She returns. Her softness/connection is soo much more beautiful! Whatever the discussion is about retention, or measuring it months later, I relish dancing with a woman as she returns. I want to be amongst the first. Because, from dance to dance, she gets normalized back into the level of her community. And, to be there to dance with her when she first returns is such a pleasure. Whether she can explain it in technical terms, or not, many times, she has learned to control her weight and positioning, making her connection much better. --- Victor Bennetts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Is it tango osmosis or tango radioactivity? Either > way it is a common phenomenon. Someone goes away for > a few weeks to BsAs and when they get back everyone > wants to dance with them and see how they have > changed. They have been exposed to tango plutonium > over in BsAs and are basking in the 'BsAs glow'. > > I wonder how real people's perceptions of each other > can be in this situation and to what extent they are > influenced by circumstance, accident and projected > expectations. For instance, compare the way people > say their dance has changed when they first get back > from BsAs with the way others perceive it and there > is often a mismatch. Also you might have a fabulous > dance with someone the first day back only to have a > terrible dance a week later, or visa versa. > > IMHO, there is only so much that you can change in > your technique while you are away, no matter how > many lessons you take. Most people would be trying > to jam in as much social dancing as they can manage, > and in that context breaking and remaking your > technique would be pretty much impossible. Your > navigation may improve a bit if you are a leader and > you might have a slightly better appreciation for a > wider range of styles as a follower, but your basic > technique is not going to have changed too much. > > Much more telling in my view is the lasting > impression left a few months later which has nothing > to do with osmosis and everything to do with > practice and hard work. In our local community there > are a few followers here who have just gone ahead in > amazing strides in the last three to six months and > the only radioactive material they have been exposed > to is, I am sure, their own hard work. One day you > take them in the embrace, take a few steps and you > start to wonder if they are the same person and say > - wow that was as good as anything I experienced in > BsAs. > > Victor Bennetts > > TFH>Osmosis: I love being one of the first leaders > to > >dance with a woman when she has come back from > BsAs. > >She has a much improved connection. Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] bad, wrong, Nuevo
Both osmosis and hours are important. Osmosis: I love being one of the first leaders to dance with a woman when she has come back from BsAs. She has a much improved connection. Soft! It fades after time. Did she spend a lot of hours dancing in BsAs? Sure. But, to be sure, it was osmosis. Time: I remember in college, if I spent, say, 10 hours/week studying for a class, I could get an A. If I spent, say, 4 hours/week, I might get a C. Same for many other things in life. Here's another example of osmosis: Sometimes, I'll spend a lot of tandas dancing, at milongas, with newer dancers. Then, when I dance with my soft partner, it takes a song, or two, before I, too, become soft. If I had just been dancing with another soft dancer, I am very soft and connected, right away, when I dance with my partner. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] bad, wrong, Nuevo
David, what you said summarizes pretty well. This is a guess. I think that a lot of people who are learning steps and are really lacking in connection think that their connection is okay, because when they look around, their connections is good relative to everyone else in the class, or most people in the community, for that matter. Why would they question their connection? Women are sitting there just waiting to dance with them! I don't think it's, so much, a choice of what they desire. It's just the world of success that they live in. Your success is measured by whether you can get around the floor and whether you can get through the classes looking good. As for whether there are teachers who teach connection. Consider this a large number of people that actually go to classes go to the classes that have the best society, the group of dancers where you feel like you are having fun, you belong, etc. When women who, IMO, teach connection much better than men, start a class, they aren't necessarily successful at filling the room. They ARE out there. People just don't care to recognize what they are teaching as important ... definitely because they don't have that great society. By the way, a lot of people aren't learning connection from the teacher. They are learning it because the teacher has found a way to get a few advanced and intermediate/advanced dancers to come to their class. A lot of people are learning connection through osmosis, period! Put your chest on the chest of a smooth dancer and you will soak some of it up. Have you ever noticed when someone from NYC comes into your community? They could be dancing for 6 months and feel like they have been dancing for 2 years. Why? Osmosis. They are dancing with better dancers. Are the teachers in NYC better? Many are pretty damn great. But, osmosis gets the credit. --- David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > IMO, another way of describing the two camps, is > that some people are much more into the > "connection", while other people are more into the > "steps". While I'm still rather new to tango, I > have an appreciation for both points of view. > > The basic issue (as I see it), is that people can > teach "steps" in a much quicker amount of time than > they can teach "connection" (actually, I'm not sure > if anyone knows how to teach it, or if it's > something you just have to figure out for yourself). > If you ever have a dance where there is a really > good connection, you understand why it is so > desireable (as well as why it's inconsistent with > some of the nuevo stuff). That being said, I do > like trying some of the "fancier" steps as well. > (I just wish I were better at it). > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] bad nuevo tango
It seems to me that nuevo dancers dont care about all of your opinions. You say they are bad dancers. Ha! We are from Pluto and Pluto is not a planet to them! You see, on Pluto, we are conscious of finess, passion, closeness, softness. On Pluto, we are conscious of the opinions of that other planetoid, Buenos Aires. But, they are not from Pluto. They go to their classes and learn patterns. Take a young tango community, for example. The instructors do their best to grow the community. How? Duh! Teach them patterns so they will keep coming back to class! (Young tango communities do not exist on Pluto.) So, here they are, patterning their hearts out and along comes nuevo. Such energetic music! Made for doing those patterns faster and with more vigor! Yh They look at their feet in class and they look at their feet as they are racing to the music! Little boys will be little boys. And, the instructors will keep the little boys in class by giving them patterns so they can show off. Dont blame the women! Because there are so many of them, they are at the mercy of the community, the leaders. Funny how, when a partner is required, the few rule! So, there you have it. We Plutonian dancers who know of good tango (our own Plutonian definition of good) and we spend our time talking about them thar non-Plutonians. Hehe ... Meanwhile, them thar non-Plutonians dont have a complaint in the world. To them, they are amongst the best in their communities. THEY can sacada and gancho. THEY can do patterns! THEY are s happy. THEY are doing exactly what they were taught Perfection. Satisfaction. Happiness. Funny people, we passionate Plutonians! Now, what was the point of this thread? Oh, yeah ... to complain about them thar happy non-Plutonians. Ahhh. Now, I feel better. I wasted all my prescious time complaining about The Happy People. PLUTONIANS UNITE! lol Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] women as leader
Dyane, Keith wrote: "...since you won't have the feeling of Tango that we all crave..." and "...Tango is essentially a dance between a man and a woman." Let's say that 10,000 people dance tango. Let's say that Keith's "we" represents however many people Keith has consulted with, say, 50 people. There is nothing wrong with the opinion of those 50 people. There is nothing wrong with the opinion of the other 9,950 people, either. IMHO ;o) If we spend our precious time on this glorious earth creating stories about what is wrong with other people, then we spend our precious time on this glorious earth creating stories about what is wrong with other people. If we spend our time moving forward in life, say by dancing our own tango, then we spend our time moving forward in life, say by dancing our own tango. Which do YOU choose? Happy dancing! Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Mario, Mario, Mario
Mario, Mario, Mario, Don't let anyone deter you from your quest. You have all these teachers, and others, (1) following YOU and (2) pleading with you to stop deviating from their norm. Way to go! This is EXACTLY what Tango-L needs! You are so inquisitive! You have every teacher, on here, speaking up defending their basic 8 reasons for ... having, well, basically, 8 reasons ... including me! Way to go! (What? You other teachers can't admit it?) If you haven't posted in the last week, may I ask? Isn't it refreshing? Thanks, Mario! Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Bridge to the Tango
Daniel Trenner and crew really knew what they were doing with Bridge to the Tango. I wish they were still available. All of the followers technique videos are priceless. I think there were three. I think all followers should have a copy. These five are great on video and beyond genius in person: Brooke Burdett Daniel Trenner Luciana Valle Rebecca Schulman Sharna Fabiano The rest of these are, also, incredible: Jose Garafolo Omar Vega Some of Fernanda Ghi and Guillermo Merlo Carolina Zkalski and Diego Di Falco (especially the waltz figures) El Pulpo I don't remember his full name, was it Zotto and Carolina? Anyway, it took me a bit to understand what Zotto was doing. I thought it was she who was so good (and she is!). Then, my parnter told me to go back and watch how he lead her. I am sooo glad she said that! He shows the way to setup your follower in various positions related to your body and in conjunction with the music. Study Zotto and dance to D'Arienzo!!! That man's lead is clean! Although I've never seen any of his videos, I have taken a lot of workshops with Fabian Salas. I have to believe that his videos must be great. Even though I had workshops and 6-week classes over and over again with most of the people on this list, I can still go to their videos and, in most any section, refresh my memory or cleanup my technique. But, where in the world are you going to find these videos? --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I'd like to hear from someone who has experience > with the "Bridge to the Tango" CDs/DVDs.? > > What are the five tapes you would recommend most for > an intermediate/advanced dancer? > > And, what are the five tapes you would *NOT* > recommend? > > I purchased a couple of these things a few years > back and I found the quality was uneven.? The > "milonga" was a style that is not common in either > Buenos Aires or Portland, for example. > > > > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL > Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com > ___ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] What's the trick??
"I lead, she steps, and I follow her" ... I've coined a few phrases in my day. But, I never said I coined that one! I just owned up to posting it on Tango-L. :o\ As for the woman pulling the leader off axis, one of the best statements ever told to me when I said something like that was, "YOU are enabling her." So, whatever it is that she is using, take it away! Try completely dancing HER dance ... well, try completely dancing the dance that she will be dancing when you take her crutch away. lol. Then, she will discover herself! Most of them don't realize they are doing it. (But, I know what you mean, Michael. Just taking their crutch away, in itself, is an expertise!) AND, I'LL SAY IT AGAIN! In between all these drawn out posts on things like the basic-8 and what it means to teachers, ugh!, when a rare, and very useful, gem like Michaels comes along ... READ IT, SOAK IT IN, AND LEARN FROM IT!!! ( Gotta point out the good stuff when it comes along. ) --- Astrid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Actually, I believe, the dancer who coined that > phrase "I lead, she steps, > and I follow her" was Carlos Gavito... > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] What's the trick??
A, welcome to the world of advanced tango! (I say that in jest. I'm sure you've been there for a while.) Anyone, including myself, who wrote "I lead, she steps and I follow her." is addressing the 9 out of 10 (or is it 49 out of 50) beginner and beginner/intermediate leaders who step first to lead. That phrase is an excellent way to make a course adjustment. As you become an advanced leader, you are constantly fine tuning as you described below. I know there are a lot of teachers out there who don't prescribe to that method. But, I know that it slowed me down and slowed down a myriad of others enroute to where you are. While I completely agree with what you wrote below, it is also important to note that if, and when, you think about indicating the feeling of the step and then following her, you will be lucky to realize that every dance is different because you are allowing her to give more of the dance to you. It's a matter of what you want to experience. Growth, even on the best of nights, comes from doing it both ways. :o) In the end, I'm just writing to give and take with your well put description and to clarify my statement a bit. However, I think leaders should read what you wrote over and over, again. Thanks! This is one of the best written posts that I have read!!! --- Michael Figart II <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hola list, > I gotta put a cent or two in here, in response to > someone who wrote "I lead, she steps and I follow > her." > Yes, I've heard this also, and it sounded really > cool > when I'd been dancing for 2-3 years, (I'm a slow > learner). The way I dance now, and the way I feel > about this subject now, is that if a follower does > this, she is anticipating and pulling on me. My lead > is to show my partner the nature, the length, and > the > direction of the step. As she gathers all this > information, her job is to interpret it, and do her > very best to step exactly WITH me, not to step ahead > of my step, but to help move our bodies in sync with > one another. > The job is not get from one foot to the other, but > to > enjoy the time in between, when you are passing > through, or pausing in, that magic, weightless point > in between steps...don't rush it, there's a lot more > time in there than you think. > Yes, this can get kinda blurry in many cases, and > there are many times, in quick steps, or milongas, > etc, where the last part does not seem to apply, but > a > leader should never have to follow his partner. And > if > you'll practice this, especially to really slow > music, > I'll guarantee you'll become a better dancer, on > both > sides of the embrace. > My best to all, > Michael (Houston Tx) Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Shared Pivots - Prerequisites
Mario asked about learning shared pivots. I advise that a prerequisite to leading shared pivots is to learn and become confortable with various drags and sandwiches. Any other suggestions? Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] What's the trick??
I think it is great to help someone five months out as they tackle *back* sacadas in their socks. The Internet, most definitely, does not make for bad dancers as a rule! Good catch, Jay! Great suggestion to do the back sacadas in his socks to save the poor woman's legs from being bruised. That was a big catch! I kicked the hell out of my partner when I was learning! And, when following a leader when he was learning, he kicked the hell out of MY legs! So, should anyone out there have questions about tango technique, please, do keep posting them. Many of us will continue to answer them. Some will caution you about trying this at home without the assistance of a paid teacher. Havent you noticed the subtitles? This was performed on a closed course. ;o) Keep dancing! And, keep posting!!! This list is, definitely, not just for teachers wearing hard hats! The Internet is a great way to learn. Thanks for all the questions, Mario!!! I like to think that Tango-L was made for people like you and me who want to learn from the Internet. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] What's the trick?? Sacadas
It doesn't miss the point because I never said that it "does any work". It's just in her path. Matter of fact, later on in my post, I state that her body is making the movements happen. However, Steve's post does add to the description of this movement. Thanks. Matter of fact, anybody, please, add to these posts. Dancers read their email waiting and waiting for discussions on technique that they can use. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >>During a high sacada, your thigh is placed in the > path of her thigh. > During a low sacada, your calf is placed in the path > of her calf.<< > > This misses the point that a sacada is mostly an > illusion. You lead the > woman's step. As the weight comes off her leg, you > step into position in > front of the leg to be displaced. The fact that you > have shifted weight > to another position is what alters her body > movement; she is staying in a > circle around you. Your "displacement" does > relatively little work; it > really just slightly deflects her leg movement as > she is taking the normal > step that you have led. > > Steve Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] What's the trick?? Sacadas
Regarding sacadas, if you are learning them without instruction, then be sure to seek "safety" instructions. For example ... High and low sacadas: During a high sacada, your thigh is placed in the path of her thigh. During a low sacada, your calf is placed in the path of her calf. If you are hitting knees, someone may get hurt. Thighs vs Knees: Be sure that you are placing your leg in the path of her leg as her weight is leaving that leg. If you do it too soon, you will push through her leg while it is still planted on the floor, thus, potentially, hurting her knee or other part of her body. You are indicating, not forcing: She should feel the presence of your leg. It is an indication that she should change her body motion accordingly. You are not forcing her body to do anything! I say "change her body motion" because there is a lot to what her body is doing and you asked about what 'you' should do. Foot direction: You should place your foot in the direction that you intend to move. Two examples with her going around to your left: 1. If you are stepping in with your left foot, turn your left foot to the left. 2. If you are stepping in with your right foot, turn your entire body to your left. A general reason for this is that you should be thinking a step ahead. Conversely, if there is a problem with a step, look to see what you were doing in the previous step. 360-degree pivot: As for the 180-degrees issue. Sometimes, I will lead the first step of the dance as a side step. I will step in with my left foot and, by the time I have transferred my weight back to my right foot, she has pivoted 360-degrees. I have taken two steps and she has taken one step. Be careful! I have followed leaders who have kicked me and wracked my knee! Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] No dancing before the music
--- "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >From my experience, this attraction to non-Tango > music is > just a passing phase. As people get better in the > dance, > they begin to hear the music better, and then they > come > back to traditional music. I'll agree that they come back to tango music. However, I make the observation that, where tango is an improvised dance based on side, back, front steps and the pivot (and a little more), that it is a natural art to be taken into other music. Similarily, although I don't dance it, it looks like hip hop is an improvised dance based on, for each movement, isolating one part of your body. Again, it looks like that is another example of a dance that is wide open to go anywhere. I see tango expanding. Heck, it's even starting to contain flips and the such. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] No dancing before the music
Oh, heck. I'll jump in with a personal note ... I started tango, yars ago, because I was recently divorced and loved the social aspect of exchanging partners in classes. "Tango? A rose between my teeth? Oh, God! But, but, it's the only class starting this month! Why can't there be a simple swing class? This is going to be so hokey! Wh!", I said as I sat at home alone. "Wah." Now, you all know that I started with no appreciation for the music. And, those thorns were killers! ;o) Years later, I am no different than thousands of others in that I am called "musical". Hurray! A newbie follower enters the room. Should I, or one of the many others who are "musical", dance with her a bit, she might feel the music. She might come to understand the music. Of course, she might come to understand the music all by her lonesome. Hm In the meantime, I welcome her, and all others, to this great social world! Oh, yes. And, as for newbie leaders ... Get them into the dance! All those women just sitting there! Those are my friends sitting out for the entire evening! Who are we to send any leader away! Send them to those followers who can, in turn, guide them toward classes! A year later, they might just be "musical". Heck, they might be "musical" right away. In the meantime, all those chairs wouldn't be so full. And, I am very glad that I wasn't sent away because the music wasn't blues or classic rock! On a side note, my teenage daughter moved in with me a few months ago. When we ride in the car, together, of course, we listen to "her" music. Now, "her" music is "my" music! Imagine all the fun we would have missed out on if I had just listened to "her" music by myself for a year! My life as a newbie is god! Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] No dancing before the music
Look at all the people who had already been dancing tango and then they heard tango with a Condombe influence. Think of all the people who heard it and got it! Think of all those people waiting a year before dancing to it! Think again! (You pegged me, though, Janice! Instant gratification is one of my downfalls.) Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] 3,3,3 Dance from the Pivot
3,3,3 Dance from the Pivot How do I get away from patterns long patterns? How do I give my patterns more life? How do I improve the feel in my dance? How do I play with musicality? The answer to all of these is Try everything 3 different ways. Okay, try things some number of ways. Here we go ... Perhaps, you are leading a molinete around to your left. You, the leader, are on your right foot. You are leading your follower to complete a frontstep, pivot her to face you, and take a sidestep. Continue the above pattern with any of the following, according to how the music moves you. You just completed the frontstep and pivoted her to face you ... before beginning the sidestep. EXAMPLE 1: Wiggle Just pivot her back and forth. Then, continue with the sidestep. EXAMPLE 2: Start a Reverse Direction First, reverse her pivot so that you can start a backstep, sending her back from where she came. A. Take her into the beginning of a backstep (make her right leg extend, keeping her weight over her left leg) and then back into the frontstep. B. Start the backstep and lead a boleo coming back face-to-face. C. Use a lot of tortion in leading the backstep. Lead yourself to do a backstep (staying on your right foot). Touch your left foot to her right foot (rather, almost touch). Come back to face-to-face. Or, do that same tortion move, again. Women say that it feels great ... and, it looks great! D. Take her all the way into a backstep. You take a backstep, too. Then, you both take a frontstep. You both pivot. E. Take her all the way into a backstep, leading her to do an embellishment. (You could mirror her embellishment). Take her back into a frontstep, pivot. After all versions, continue with the sidestep. EXAMPLE 3: Start her into a backstep A. Move your chest forward enough to make her extend her right leg. B. Do (A), but extend your left leg forward to match her right leg. C. Lead her to a full backstep. Accompany her. Lead her back to a frontstep. After all versions, continue with the sidestep. EXAMPLE 4: Play with the Side Step A. Lead her to extend her right leg a little and back to a collection. B. Lead her to extend her right leg a lot and back to a collection. C. Lead her to extend her right leg while extending your left leg. Pause. D. Take a sidestep with her, pausing before her left leg and your right leg moves. After all versions, continue the sidestep. Doing any one of these will take you down the journey of having the dance emanate from the pivot! Again, in my opinion, if you want to give your dance more feeling, if you want to get away from patterns a bit, if you want to surprise your follower, giving her more opportunity to use her technique and elasticity, then, dance from the pivot!!! Enjoy! Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] No dancing before the music
Deby, I couldn't agree with you more. Everyone is different. So, a general statement that you would have to listen to the music for a year before dancing just isn't true across the board. If, perhaps, there IS a person out there who really would be terrible at dancing until, after a year of listening to the music, they came around, then, I would still say, even in that case, he/she should/could go out there and dance his/her heart out as they are learning the music through listening. Why wait? (That's a rhetorical question!) Just imagine telling someone to listen for a year, then come back! That person could have been one of the most wonderful dancers lost to our fun little sport ;o) if they never get around to coming back! We're all different. Nice website, www.lavidacondeby.com, and nice place! Your links must be helpful to a lot of visitors to BsAs! --- Deby Novitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > With all due respect, I agree that one must > understand the music and to > feel it. It is what makes the difference between > someone dancing, and > someone running through a series of steps and > patterns. > > What I do not agree with is the attitude that > someone must listen to the > music for a year before learning to dance. To be > honest, I hated the > music when I started. I only wanted to learn > because I saw Forever > Tango and I was sick of salsa. Had I been told I > needed to listen to > the music for a year, I never would have learned > tango or had the > experiences I have had and continue to have. I > think there are many > people like me. > > Now of course I love the music. I learned to > appreciate it and to feel > it. I think this happens for many people. People > need to be encouraged > to learn new things, not pushed away from them. Not > everyone is > destined to become a good dancer. There are people > who were born > listening to tango and cannot dance a step, or do > not dance well at > all. The most important thing is that you enjoy > what you do, and if you > get good at it, then all for the better. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango-L Helping Newbies Dance in Tight Spaces
When I was shown that, his intent was merely to get me to do anything different than just walking in box shapes and doing back ochos. I was doing an exercise taking my partner to the cross. It was probably driving him crazy how boring the exercise was. So, his real intent was to show me my first bit of fun at the cross. So, with my example, I was trying to give the simplest example I could think of. From there, you're right, there's all kinds of great over rotation that can be done. --- Carol Shepherd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Maybe you mean that a front ocho figure is a good > holding pattern? Or > did you mean that a front ocho or back ocho figure > can also be over- or > under-rotated to realign the couple's direction, to > navigate around a > couple that has stopped to execute some kind of > non-progressing figure. > Also the milonga cross (ocho cortado). > > Tom Stermitz showed some great tips a few years back > on leads using > diagonals from the line of dance, to work into empty > corners and to the > sides, to have enough space to do something more > exciting than shifting > weight in place, and to avoid traffic jams. > Unfortunately, I don't see > many people using it in their dance (diagonals are > the key navigation > tool taught in ballroom, in travelling dances). > > Of course using this to pass presupposes that room > exists for a second > lane of dance. > > Tango For Her wrote: > > ( New leaders, save these!!! ) > > > > Nice! Here's another: > > > > Back when I was just past being a newbie, but > still > > could only do the basic few patterns and only in > one > > direction, I got some helpful advice. There was > an > > extra teacher hanging out in the room, helping > here > > and there. :o) > > > > This move really gave me some freedom (it's a > front > > ocho to my right side): > > > > I am on my right foot. My follower is on her left > > foot. We are facing each other. > > > > I pivot her so that her toes are pointing to my > right > > side. > > > > I lead her to take a front step. > > > > I pivot her so that her toes are in line to step > back > > in front of me. > > > > Yes, I am leading a front ocho. She steps back in > > front of me. > > > > I pivot her so that her toes are pointing back at > me, > > again. > > > > Done! > > > > You can also teach the leader to step back while > she > > is stepping forward, then, step in place while she > > completes the front ocho. > > > > YES, new leaders are going to chicken-wing the > hell > > out of that move. YES, they are going to lead it > with > > their arms rather than their body. But, at least, > > they have the freedom to do a "cool" move without > > going anywhere! > > > > Hmmm, I could have written that better. Was that > > visual enough? > > > > -- > Carol Ruth Shepherd > Arborlaw PLC > Ann Arbor MI USA > 734 668 4646 v 734 786 1241 f > http://arborlaw.com > > ventures alliances mergers acquisitions > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango-L Helping Newbies Dance in Tight Spaces
( New leaders, save these!!! ) Nice! Here's another: Back when I was just past being a newbie, but still could only do the basic few patterns and only in one direction, I got some helpful advice. There was an extra teacher hanging out in the room, helping here and there. :o) This move really gave me some freedom (it's a front ocho to my right side): I am on my right foot. My follower is on her left foot. We are facing each other. I pivot her so that her toes are pointing to my right side. I lead her to take a front step. I pivot her so that her toes are in line to step back in front of me. Yes, I am leading a front ocho. She steps back in front of me. I pivot her so that her toes are pointing back at me, again. Done! You can also teach the leader to step back while she is stepping forward, then, step in place while she completes the front ocho. YES, new leaders are going to chicken-wing the hell out of that move. YES, they are going to lead it with their arms rather than their body. But, at least, they have the freedom to do a "cool" move without going anywhere! Hmmm, I could have written that better. Was that visual enough? :o) --- NANCY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > - > Why not show them something they all already know > how > to do? Remember your first dancing? What did you > do? > Well, you put your arms around the girl's waist and > > she put her arms around your shoulders and you > stood > in place, rocking back and forth ( ahem..Rock > Step!) Tell them to use this whenever navigation > becomes a problem. That is certainly what the > milongueros do. It also helps the newbies become > aware of where their weight and the weight of their > partner is. They can make a 180 turn doing little > rock steps to see if there is an escape route out of > a > traffic jam and never go against the line of dance. > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Help Newbies Dance in Tight Spaces
Help Newbies Dance in Tight Spaces When I was a beginner, my first milonga was on a very small, very crowded floor. No room to move. DisasterVille! Later, as a more advanced dancer, I had a few interesting private lessons. 1. I had a private lesson with a partner. It was in a 10x8 space. The teacher walked in front of us and his partner walked behind us. He changed his pace, dancing in place, dancing slowly, moving in a burst, etc. In BsAs, he said, if you leave a gap between you and me, someone will enter the dance floor in front of you. So, I want you to keep the same tight distance behind me. It was quite an eye-opener. 2. I had a private lesson dancing with my teacher in a 10x12 room. We could only go around the room once or twice for the entire song. That, too, was quite an eye-opener. 3. Another lesson was for training to perform. I was instructed to dance in phrases, small, tight moves followed by long sweeping moves. Again, I became aware of dancing at different speeds. Now, of course, I know how to dance in place when there is no place to go. Sometimes, I even, purposely, dance behind the slowest leader in the room just for the practice. Heres my quandary: Why all this talk of walk, walk, walk for beginners? Why all this talk of the pieces of the basic-8? (Those are rhetorical questions.) Why not have a week-long discussion on the problem at hand: *** Beginners have trouble in tight spaces. *** I posted an example on , Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:18:53 EST, Breaking the paso basico with simple movements I know that that exercise worked wonders. It allowed beginners to move in tight spaces. There must be all kinds of teaching examples that you can come up with. It just seems that the two discussions, walk, walk, walk and the basic-8 are just spending a lot of time just defending or breaking down these teaching styles. Those teacing methods already exist and new leaders still have nightmares when they get out to the milongas. So? I know you all must have some great teaching examples for solving this problem. Lets hear them! Again, I am saying nothing positive or negative about walking and basic-8 exercises. I just think it would be interesting reading, for all of us out here, to hear what other gems you have for helping the newbies! Thanks ahead of time! Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Wiggles
I found a couple of short wiggles at 48 seconds and again at 1:18 of Homer's video: Spirals: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLedV1o4Y7A&feature=related 48 seconds, 1:18 Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Breaking the 'paso basico.'
Interesting side story ... As a beginner, I remember a teacher asking if any of the leaders could dance themselves into a cross. That is, dance their own feet into a cross. I volunteered. The only way that I could conceive of doing that was to lead the basic-8 as though my partner was the leader and I was the follower. Mission complete! My point is ... I guess, all I knew was the Basic-8. So, keep writing those posts on how to break out of it! Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Wiggles
But, some women who are dancers LOVE wiggles. They tell me that it is so musical. And, I haven't had anyone resist it, yet. H, food for thought. --- Nina Pesochinsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Women who are dancers HATE wiggles. It is a > meaningless move that > says nothing, misses a bunch of music and does not > feel good. If men > want to do it, they better be sure that they know > the woman they do > it with, and know for sure that she likes it, or > they might run a > risk of woman just standing there waiting for the > man to stop wiggling. > > Best, > > NIna > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Wiggles
Women LOVE wiggles. They say it feels good. But, I can say that wiggling their hips really accentuates their shape. One time, I was dancing with a woman right in front of her ex-boyfriend, recent ex-boyfriend. I made sure her back was to him and I led quite a few wiggles as we passed by his seat. Actually, we wiggled, shared pivot, wiggled, something else, wiggled. I remember making quite a display of it! I mentioned it to her, later. She said, "I know what you were doing. And, thank you!" :o) --- Melroy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Sorry but I just call it a wiggle, if it's the same > thing I do - and it > sounds like it. > I'm sure there is a more correct term, but hey, a > wiggle's a wiggle - why > complicate things. > Actually I like wiggles. > Mel. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Wiggle
--- Mario <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Here is a video of Shastro doing some wiggles with > his ocho cortado..a little past half way thru, they > will definately begin. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5Ne2cKDFz4 > No, that definitely isn't it. I don't have access to youtube at work and I couldn't find it tonight. The problem is that it is a feel good move, not a show tango move. It feels good to the woman to have that tortion put into her body. These videos are performances. Again, the move isn't for performance. It is for soft tango. The woman stands on one foot, feet collected and I wiggle her body. If I wiggled, once, bigger, rather than short, it would be a boleo. Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Omar Vega's videos
> > (http://tangohk.com/\) Nice site, Keith. You have a link, on there, to TheTangoCatalogue.com. Unfortunately, Daniel Trenner's efforts seem to have been lost. That site no longer offers the large collection of videos that were created by Daniel and crew.Does anyone know where to find them? I am, specifically, looking to replace my lost copy of Omar Vega's tango instruction video. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Wiggle
I was asked, "What's a wiggle?" I have to confess that see things and feel things in tango, but words will never stick! When I play BB King-style, or Clapton-style blues guitar, it's called vibrato. In tango, can someone help me, here? When I "wiggle" my partner, I am pivoting our chests back and forth quickly. The effect is to create counter-tortions in her body. The energy transfers down through her body into a wiggle of her free foot. Musically, it feels great to come out of this movement into a back ocho. Anyway, someone else will have to help me, here, with terminology. Then, ask me a month from now, and I won't be able to tell you. :o\ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Breaking the paso basico with simple movements
The most successful approach I have ever used for teaching newbies and helping beginners and beginner-intermediates does not involve counting. And, I like using this method when leading a very large class, like at one of the big events where various teachers are rotated through each week. The first time I used this was in front of 80 people and I always partnered with the newest followers. I added in a little walking, but, mostly, heres what I did: Show them that being face-to-face, with the leader on his right foot and the follower on her left foot is home base (step 2 of the basic). I would constantly tell them, If you ever feel lost, remember that (when dancing in parallel), you are at home base half of the time. This is the place where you can readjust your connection. We spend a lot of time at this point. Always take them back home. Every other step is that comfy place where the leader can find his follower, again. Then, I proceed to teach them about pivoting the follower. I stick to 90-degree pivots and wiggles where the follower ends up back at whatever position she started from. Then, teach them about rocksteps with the follower facing the leader, with the followers left side to the leader and with the followers right side to the leader. Mixed with this is giving the leader the comfort of figuring out how to change feet (to and from crossed position) without moving the follower. Simplify it! Clear their heads of all those other responsibilities and let them get in touch with their own feet! So, what do we have so far? If the follower is on her left foot, the leader can rockstep, wiggle her, or turn her 90-degrees so that her left side is facing him. When her left side is facing him, he can rockstep, just have her step forward, just have her step back, pivot her or wiggle her. If the follower is on her right foot, the leader can wiggle her or turn her 90-degrees so that her right side is facing him. When her right side is facing him, he can rockstep, just have her step forward, just have her step back, pivot her or wiggle her. I would turn on the music, giving them a simple exercise. Wait until I found a large number of leaders or followers doing the same thing wrong. Stop the music, discuss it, show it, fix it and start the music, again. By the end of the class, leaders where stepping in tight 2-track parallel steps. Leaders were changing their feet. Followers were more at ease at what to do with their free leg during these movements and while the leader was thinking. I mixed in a lot of the follower instruction. And, they were moving together without frustration. At the end of the class, I demonstrate a dance with the newest follower in the room; a dance where we never toke more than one step from our original spot; a very musical dance with which everyone could identitify. The follower feels as though she is doing s much! The leaders see, in a long demonstration, that it really IS a beautiful dance without having to do all those steps, without having to walk, walk, walk, even though they still feel uncomfortable. You can hear a pin drop during the class and everyone feels comfortable, more musical and more in control. A great side-effect is that leaders no longer spiral to the center of the room. They gain the control to be able to stay on the outside of the dance floor. And, their dances were more musical and playful than they were before ... dances of walking, going to the cross and spiraling to the center of the room. And, why arent they spiraling to the center of the floor? Because they have just completed an hour of training in becoming comfortable stepping in different ways relative to their partner. They are comfortable with each other. I always advocate, as a base, teaching about simple movements, no counts, and playing with your follower. Within that paradym, it is so easy to mix in teaching followers technique. How many teachers do you see that spend way too much of the class teaching steps and walking? Tango for her! I know you have to spend an inordinate amount of time teaching the new leaders. But, it really is possible to teach them while demonstrating that the follower is the main aspect of the dance, focussing on things to do with the follower! I will always remember my private lesson, Dont ever go to the cross! I rarely do. Instead, I play with the music and my partner. And, I teach like that. And, it works! You know what else is cool about this approach? In the same time that someone else is teaching them to walk, walk, walk or do some pattern, I have taught them to be in sync with each other while changing their orientation to each other, changing feet and being happy just playing with the music without having to go somewhere just because they were always taught to keep moving. Pauses, wiggles, rocksteps and single steps are a great place to be! As for the intermediate leaders, in the same
Re: [Tango-L] Breaking the "paso basico."
--- Mario <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > "" my first 2 months experiance of Tango a year > ago.To be honest I know noone who when starting > Tango is not taught the "paso basico" in some form > or another.You fall back onto what you know the > best and this basic step sequence > >must have been etched into my head when I first > started learning. > > I am just wondering if anyone else has ever > experianced this and how" they broke out of the > sequence."" > 1. If the basic eight is really taking you eight beats, there's the first clue. Add pauses. That will give you time to think of how to break out of it. 2. As was stated on other posts, flat out, don't go to the cross. That will make you break out of the basic eight. 3. At any step, anywhere, think of 3 things that you could do. Three is a great number, because it does not overload your mind. You already know one thing to do ... the thing that you were just about to do. Think of two other things to do. While you're at it, think of 2 more ways to do it. Slower, faster, smaller, bigger, behind the beat, more staccado, etc. ALSO, if you are thinking of the basic eight, then you *might* be thinking in terms of you. If you think in terms of your follower, you can come up with things that do not involve you stepping. Right in the middle of the pattern, lead a boleo, a wiggle, a pause, a rock step, a fake step, etc. Make it about movement of one of her feet without moving her other foot. That is a segway into making it about her body rather than steps. You said that you had broken yourself of this pattern, so, I am not saying "you", Mario. I am just saying, "you", anyone. Heck! "You", me! Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] men who pull to their left
I am curious about 2 things: 1. How did you know the followers were lining up due to you not going to the cross? I don't doubt that they were. I'm just curious. Did they like it and spread the word, for example? 2. Did you find yourself getting to the 2, 3 or 4 step of the basic and having to think quick to avoid the cross? I remember when I first did this exercise and how it opened my mind to, right there, on the spot, move in a different direction. I remember that it was a battle at first. Then, it was one of the most liberating things I've ever learned. I am curious about what happened with you. I ask about #2 so that you can let others know just how it changed your dance. I remember that week. People said my style changed like night and day. Dancing became very, very much more fun. I also found that, when the leader in front of me started dancing backward, up the line of dance, I could, easily, put my back to him and protect my partner. That quickness came straight from this exercise. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Keith, > > I actually tried this a few weeks ago - I > deliberately did no crosses > all evening - and the followers were lining up :) > It's a great improv exercise > > barbra > > Have you joined the Buffalo Argentine Tango Society > Yahoo! group yet? > It's easy, and the best way to make sure you know > what we're doing and > what's going on with the Argentine tango in and > around Buffalo..go > to www.yahoo.com > select Groups > search for > Buffalo Argentine Tango > Society > follow the directions to join BATS_tango. > Thanks! > > -Original Message- > From: Keith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: tango-l@mit.edu > Sent: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:36 pm > Subject: Re: [Tango-L] men who pull to their left > > > > > > > What I found interesting in this video is that Ruben > leads his partner > in a walk to the Cruzada only once during the entire > dance. He leads > the cross after Front Ochos and Ocho Cortados, but > only once from > the walk. And, of course, he dances no Resolutions. > > This si a good exercise for students - to dance an > entire song without > a Cruzada or a Resolution. > > > On Wed Jan 23 8:10 , Mario sent: > > >Here is a video of ENRIQUETA KLEINMAN Y RUBÉN > HARYMBAT. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch\?v=JfjsLjob0bM > > > ___ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > > > > > > > > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL > Mail ! - > http://webmail.aol.com > > ___ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Victor, chicho, the real tango, practica X
It isn't really close embrace. He has to leave enough room to use their legs as they do. I took one of his seminars about 9 years ago in Amsterdam. I could almost say that I have never been so close to a woman that I will never see, again! I partnered with someone from the Netherlands. Our legs became as one! I did fairly well in the seminar. But, most people didn't do so well. A teacher, from BsAs, told me that the reason that he can do those moves well and most guys can't is because, typically, only women can stand with their heels together and their toes pointed 180-degrees apart. So, don't be hard on yourself if you have difficulty. One thing to note, as you should note when leading any sacadas. I am generalizing, and can't think of any cases where this is not true. I am sure someone will think of one. Anyway, notice that he points his toe in the direction that he wants to be facing during the NEXT step of the sequence. You will notice that that leaves him room to slide (so-to-speak) his other foot through and it leaves him lined up for his next movement. Also, note the places where his knees are tighter together above her knees and for how long. He is not squeezing. It's just part of the signalling process as she is aware of where he is in relation to her. Chicho likes to have fun in his workshops. I remember him asking for 3 volunteer couples to try and hit him during a song. I volunteered and immediately walked my partner toward him, cornering him, swiveled, and touched my back against his. That was pretty cool, because I was a bit of a newbie and there are some excellent dancers over there! I guess he was hoping to illustrate that he could out-navigate anyone. Oops! :o) --- Bruno Afonso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Guys, > > I very much enjoyed these Chicho's interpretations. > Very lyrical and > sensitive to me. I have a naive question regarding > his embrace. It is > not a very traditional apilado or at least what I > kind of conceive as > a more traditional one, where the partners face each > other more > "straight forward". I can see how this one looks > more confortable for > certain moves and interpretations. I may have been > deceived though :) > > How do people normally call this style (?) of close > embrace? Is it > something you kind of develop yourself - personal > preferences, etc - > or a style? > > I'm sure he masters it and can dance with any > follower but i am > curious as to how followers feel about that embrace > versus others. > > stay cool > b > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Funniest Tango video
--- Laurence Moseley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: .. > > A. Learning the move and communicating it to your > partner > B. Dancing the move to a variety of music > C. Linking the move with your existing dancing and > style > D. Doing all of that in a crowded room, without > interfering with others > > Thus, a teacher needs to teach the first skill, as > in the video clip under discussion. However, for it > to be learned and incorporated, the teacher should > also teach the other three elements. > . Excellent, constructive post! Thanks! It's very refreshing. When someone teaches a lot of moves, students do not have to go out and use all the moves in a sequence out on a crowded dance floor. Matter of fact, if someone tries to use a sequence of big moves on a crowded dance floor, don't blame the teacher! It may not have been his intent for them to learn all of that and go out onto a crowded dance floor and use it. However, I have to agree. If that was the intention, the teacher should use A-D, above. There are a lot of moves in that video AND it is very clear how he is using his body and how she is using her body. Therefore, it is very informative. He might be shuffling his feet, here and there, to setup to show a move. Ok, give him a lower grade for that. But, you have to admit that, when he demonstrates each move, partners could watch the video, discussing what they see within each move, and try it at home without even being at the workshop! Imagine actually being at the workshop! It is very clear how he is using his body. It is very clear where and when he is moving his inside foot. I am glad that someone went out and found this video! I like soft tango. So, I can learn from the video and soften it to my liking. If someone likes doing big moves, they can use it for that. If someone is looking to discuss it in a constructive way, there is something there for us, too. If someone is looking for cases of abuse, I they can really reach and create a whole thread about it. It looks like we're all happy! We must all give thanks for this video. ;o) Would anyone care to go through the video and lavel each of the moves along with the timestamp? That would help a lot of people. Thanks! Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Funniest Tango video
I see a woman having fun with her partner. I see contribution. Good or or not so good? That's subjective. But, I see contribution. Look for the positive and you will learn to see the contribution. Many of us, out here, learn from watching new dancers, bad dancers and dancers that don't dance like us. I see contribution. I see no abuse. You see? --- "Chris, UK" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > As the title makes clear, this is the summation of > a workshop, > > The title does no such thing. And if you've > experienced this teacher's > classes, you'll know this stuff is unfortunately not > confined to the end. > > Regardless, the ultimate summation of any workshop > is its contribution to > the students' development. What sort of contribution > do you think is made > by an hour spent copying a teacher abusing a girl? > > > I have danced with two of you critics. > > And I have danced with the teacher being criticised. > > -- > Chris Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Funniest Tango video
Let's see. They come to town and give a workshop. The women learn to be flexible and fun, like her. The men learn to be in sync with their partner, like him. Sweet! Sounds like a fun afternoon. --- Igor Polk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Chris: > > Crikey. I hope that poor girl was well paid: > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an6YcpT9WGA&feature=related > > > :) > I am crying, > What is the next number? > > Igor Polk > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Krasimir vs anticipation... correction
In my last post on this subject, I cut-n-paste too quickly and ended up with Astrid's name as the author to Kasimir's quote. Sorry, Astrid! > > --- Kasimir wrote: > > > >I do not agree about the queen thing, but for > > everything else, you are > > > right. > > > I keep telling her that I don't care about the > > random mistakes, so there > > > is > > > no need for her preoccupation, it's the > systematic > > ones that bother me . . > > > . > > > > Then, I wrote: > Here is one of my basic beliefs: > > A movement consists of a lot of small > communications. > I communicate to her and she communicates back to > me, > and so on. > > So, as we move through a step, WE collaborate. WE > both did the best that WE could do. Therefore, > there > is no reason to place the blame on her. > > Did she do something that I did not intend? Fine. > > Next time, I will try harder to communicate my > intentions a little better. > > My partners, as far as I know, believe in me. Why? > Because, we are always doing the right movement. > How > do I know this? Because, all the way through the > movement, WE agreed on it, together > > If I want something to be different, I will try > harder > to communicate. If it still does not work. Then, > perhaps, there is something for ME to learn! > > Don't blame the follower! You are so lucky to have > her!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. > http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > > ___ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Krasimir vs anticipation...
--- Astrid <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >I do not agree about the queen thing, but for > everything else, you are > > right. > > I keep telling her that I don't care about the > random mistakes, so there > > is > > no need for her preoccupation, it's the systematic > ones that bother me . . > > . > > Here is one of my basic beliefs: A movement consists of a lot of small communications. I communicate to her and she communicates back to me, and so on. So, as we move through a step, WE collaborate. WE both did the best that WE could do. Therefore, there is no reason to place the blame on her. Did she do something that I did not intend? Fine. Next time, I will try harder to communicate my intentions a little better. My partners, as far as I know, believe in me. Why? Because, we are always doing the right movement. How do I know this? Because, all the way through the movement, WE agreed on it, together If I want something to be different, I will try harder to communicate. If it still does not work. Then, perhaps, there is something for ME to learn! Don't blame the follower! You are so lucky to have her!!! Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Creating a strong connection
--- Keith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Virginia, > > An excellent exercise to strenghthen the connection > is to practice with > the man's right arm behind his back, while the woman > maintains her normal > close embrace. This exercise really forces the > couple to concentrate on > the connection and, the first time you try it, > you'll probably realise just > how weak your connection really is. But the exercise > should bring about > a rapid improvement and make you both feel a lot > more confident and > comfortable in close embrace. > Nice! He'll have to maintain the connection with his chest rather than his frame. It is a great way to strengthen the connection. Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Creating a strong connection
--- Virginia Nicholson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi there, > > This is my first posting to the tango L-list so be > nice! > > I have a question...I'm a follower and I've been > dancing for about two > years. I've been practicing with a steady partner, > but I still go to > milongas and dance with other people, so I can tell > that my partner > and I lack the deep connection that I sometimes > experience with my > favorite leaders, that sense of a silent > conversation. My partner has > good balance and posture and has been dancing for a > long time, though > mostly in open embrace...now we're trying a mix of > open and close. I'm > not sure what's wrong. It's good - just not great. > Do any of you > leaders have any advice? or suggestions for how a to > strengthen the > connection? I apologize for covering what must be > well-worn ground. > ANYONE WRITING FOR THE FIRST TIME: Don't worry about the "experts" on here trashing you if you ask a question. They only desire to trash each other. I sure wish this list could be more constructive. One way to accomplish that is for everyone out there to keep them busy with new questions. PLEASE! Virginia, I have a couple of answers to your question. If the two of you are close enough that you can be honest, then, suggest a series of close embrace private lessons working on slow, deliberate movements, like just walking to the cross. If you can find a very good teacher, she will correct the smallest of connection details. You could also suggest taking a dance, once in a while, to just walk in close embrace. Let the focus be on the connection. He should be concentrating on removing any jolt from each backstep of yours. It's like what I described in an earlier post about walking like a cat. He should put all of his energy into feeling the movement all the way through the step. He will find that he is using more parts of his body than he was aware of. Good luck! Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] An entire dance w/o a Cruzada
--- Keith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What I found interesting in this video is that Ruben > leads his partner > in a walk to the Cruzada only once during the entire > dance. He leads > the cross after Front Ochos and Ocho Cortados, but > only once from > the walk. And, of course, he dances no Resolutions. > > This si a good exercise for students - to dance an > entire song without > a Cruzada or a Resolution. > Excellent! This was part of my training when my teacher was teaching about tortion and studying Chicho. He noticed that I was "resolving everything". What I learned from that was that I was thinking in terms of patterns. Patterns have definite endings. My instructor told me NOT to go to the cross. What an exercise! It really opens your mind! You get to step 3 and WHAM! You're confronted with making a decision! You have 4 things you can do: step forward, side, back or pivot. It really makes you think on your feet. Next, you start being aware, at step 2, that you can add even more variety! Again, after those 5 lessons, when I went back out dancing, everyone commented on how free and fun my dancing was. Good call, Keith! Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Entering the pivot - The closing step
--- "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Sorry, but I must be missing something here. > > It seems to me that most of tango happens in step 2 > (extension). This is when you communicate > intention, > direction, and velocity. From here is also where > torsion > comes into play. Obviously, you can play with all > of the > parts, but I still think that you can do more with > extension than with closing. > > I prefer to think of the parts of a step as being: > - extension > - weight transfer > - closing > - pivot > No, you're not missing anything. What you said is important. I posted this topic because I believe that a leader can learn to focus more on his/her follower, as opposed to focussing on steps, if movements are related to the pivot. As for your comment about the step out of the pivot being the *most important*, I agree that more happens there. I can accept calling it the most important step. I think that alone would be a great topic. ENTERING THE PIVOT - THE CLOSING STEP I want to add that, in striving for softness in each step, the movement into the pivot (closing) is very important. For example, just walking around the dance floor with your partner, if landing of the foot and the transfer of weight on to the foot is concentrated on, then you can make the dance softer. If/when I feel that I don't have the best connection with my partner, I will do just that. I will walk, concentrating on removing the feeling of impact from my partner's landing foot. I will also concentrate on the entire closing step. The same goes for the common "rockstep, sidestep" move. How many times has your leader entered the sidestep ahead of you? How many times has there been even the slightest thump to the side step? This can be fixed by concentrating on the step entering the pivot (the closing step). Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Victor, chicho, the real tango, practica X
I can't access youtube while at work. But, I can add that, early on, when everyone said that I had no tortion, I had 5 lessons with a teacher who had me watch Chicho and do a series of exercises, in open embrace, with him. After those lessons, my dancing was very, very free. I could move in any direction at any time. That was 9 years ago. All I know is that he saw something in Chicho that he used, very effectively, in his teaching! I don't have videos of Chicho. But, now that you guyz are dragging me into the modern age of youtube, I'll definitely take a peek! Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] If not thinking, and besides the music, what are you paying attention to?
--- Mario <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I have been told by one teacher "What do you care > about where the woman's feet are?" > > ..and reading here, have seen " a leader should > always know where the woman is, where her > weight/feet are.." > >... is that what smooth improvising dancers are > paying attention to? or what?? thanks > You don't need to watch her feet and she doesn't need to watch yours. When your follower is at rest, a rule of thumb is that each foot is under each side of her chest. Ya, it sounds obvious. But, that is the reference point. You want to know where you are leading her to step. You want to give her room during front moves, front ochoes, boleos, etc. You want to develop a feel for what type of embellishment she is doing. There is a lot to this ... There is the communication of waiting until she is done. Of course, she has to be ready to go if/when you decide to move along. As for more on embellishments, maybe Astrid, or someone else could elaborate. If you are leading a drag, then, I sure hope you know where her foot is. In my post, Walk Like a Homosapien, I explain that understanding followers technique, and learning to lead from that understanding, will give you a great understanding of exactly where her feet should be. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango is a dance of collections or pivots
Tom wrote: "snap to the collect, pivot, & snap to the reach" Tom, Tom, Tom. I can write about elegant flowing movements just as well as you. You missed the point. But, thank you. You wrote a great chapter two! See? We ARE on to the real tango! It is great to teach people about deriving tango from the pivot and moving in and out of it. After showing that these "steps" can be thought of in terms of pivots, then, such elegant descriptions as yours have a proper home! :o) And, of course music and feeling are important. Sorry. It seems that no one should EVER use the term real tango on this list. It makes people start writing about completely different subjects that should have different headings. My post was about centering tango around the pivot rather than the steps. Duh! Hey, everyone! Dont forget to use musicality and feelings! I think Tom is going to write about it in a completely different post. By the way, I didnt get this from a teacher. This is part of how I think of the dance. This is a beginning to how I think of teaching leaders to get their head out of the patterns and onto the womans body so that the dance can be about her. So, no, I am not one of your slandering examples! Tisk! Tisk! Tisk! So, here we have it. CHAPTER ONE: Deriving your lead from the pivot. Focus on the follower, not the steps. CHAPTER TWO: Moving fluently through the pivot. ADDENDUM TO CHAPTER ONE: At a point in time, during the pivot, you can see the feet collected together. Its just a point in time as I describe 5 positions in a step. DONT GET FREAKED OUT! I guess you could say that a point in time is staccado. Thanks, Tom! Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango is a dance of collections or pivots - correction
In one of the paragraphs near the end: If you think in these terms, then, your focus will shift from varying ... should read: If you think in these terms, then, your focus will shift to varying ... Also, I want to state my opinion that a lot of leaders are stuck in the mentality of moving through the patterns that they are taught. That, alone, is not enough. Shifting one's focus from the patterns to the details in the pivot is, in effect, shifting your focus to your follower. You don't need patterns!!! You already know how to move in tango. Shift your focus to her and you will find that the dance really is about her! :o) Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Tango is a dance of collections or pivots
--- Krasimir Stoyanov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Wow! I see some really good points. Yes, the idea > that the focus is the > pivot is great. And the definition of it "I use the > term pivot to indicate > the point in a step where the feet are collected." > is right on target. I > would add that the collection is not absolute > necessity as far as the > dynamic balance point is "collected". And yes, the > steps are just means to > get from one "pivot" to another. Absolutely true. > > But, still, a long way to go :-) > As for "a long way to go", you're right. That's just the tip of the iceberg. Once you get someone thinking, and doing in those terms, you can, then, draw them into the conversation of how to dance for her! I mean, to me, so much of the technique required for putting softness into your dance derives from this discussion. Especially, the discussion of finding the point of elasticity in your follower is based on this. But, before that, comes the discussion of building a sense of security with your follower. The topic of balance is related to entering and exiting the pivot or even just being in the pivot. So, when you practice thinking in these terms, you are practicing techniques related to balance. And, when you do that, your follower becomes much more ensured that you understand her. And, from THERE, I find that followers give me a much more beautiful and dynamic dance partnership. Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Tango is a dance of collections or pivots
I say that tango is a dance of collections or pivots rather than a walking dance. I say this to change to focus of the dance to where the real tango takes place. I use the term pivot to indicate the point in a step where the feet are collected. At the pivot, you can lead your follow to: - do a side step - do a back step - do a front step - pivot (swivel) >From the pivot, there are all kinds of moves, such as boleos and volcadas, that come from leading the beginning of a step. So, lets break down a step to see how it is really just a part of the pivot. I think of a step as five parts, the fourth and fifth parts mirroring the first and second parts. To list the five parts of a step, lets look at the process of starting on your left foot, taking a side step and ending on your right foot: 1. Stand on your left foot with your feet collected. 2. Slightly bend your left knee and extend your right foot to the side with a straight knee. Keep your body aligned over your left foot. 3. Transfer your weight to the point where your body is positioned between your feet. This point is no mans land, the point where you never want to leave your follower. 4. Transfer your weight over your right foot leaving your left foot in its original place. Your right knee will, now, be slightly bent and your left knee will be straight. 5. Collect left foot to your right foot. Remain standing on your right foot. Notice that #3 is the mid-point. Now, lets rewrite this sequence to let the pivot be the mid-point: 1. Stand on your right foot with your right knee bent and your left foot out to the left with your left knee straight. 2. Move your left foot to a collection with your right, remaining on your right foot. You are now in the pivot 1. Stand on your right foot with your right foot with your feet together. 2. Bend your right knee slightly and move your left foot out to the left, straightening your left knee. Yes, we have not talked about step #3. But, that is no-mans land, anyway. My point in describing tango movements in this way is to shift the focus of the dance from steps to pivots. It is coming in and out of the pivot, and being in the pivot, where most of tango takes place. If you think in these terms, then, your focus will shift from varying the feel and technique of moving in and out of your pivots, thus, honing your technique regarding softness and balance. I prefer to think in terms of softness and balance rather than steps. Also, in centering my thinking around this method, it is a natural progression to think of tortion, mirroring or matching your partner, circular and linear boleos, and fake steps, which I like to call teasing my partner. I also like to think of these fake steps and varying amounts of tortion as my way to hone my communication with my partner because this is where we will both be spending a lot of time, as leaders, doing the unexpected. As our follower responds and we respond to her response, our ability to communicate increases and our dancing gets softer. All of that and we werent even thinking of steps! You gotta love tango! Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Learning Tango
Well, that doesn't take us down a very fruitful path, either! I can name a dozen teachers that I have had that I think are top-notch and I would have my reasons. The next person can name his or her top 10 and the reasons, etc, etc, etc. If we give our reasons, which we have, then great. If we name teachers, all that does is open the door for publically (publicly?) chastising teachers. It doesn't seem that there is any need for that! Instead, let's go down this path: I like teachers who teach about balance, tortion, positioning, musicality, and so on. --- Keith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > TFH, > > You mis-read my post. I asked Chris to tell us which > teachers > teach appropriately, in his opinion - not those who > don't. > > I actually agree with what you say. I don't think we > should > publicly name teachers who, in our opinion, don't > teach > appropriately. It's too subjective and a false > report can harm > a good teacher. > > But Chris has already named Gustavo Naveira as a > teacher > who doesn't teach appropriately so Chris obviously > has no > problem in naming names. > > Keith, HK > > > On Tue Jan 22 2:01 , Tango For Her sent: > > I > >> look forward to hearing > >> from Chris on what type of group class would be > >> useful and which teachers > >> teach that type of class. > >> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Learning Tango
--- Keith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Mario, > > You've obviously read different messages than me. I > look forward to hearing > from Chris on what type of group class would be > useful and which teachers > teach that type of class. > Let's applaud Chris ahead of time for not taking the bait. Publically naming teachers that don't teach "appropriately"? Not! Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] A true tango
That scene in the salon in the movie, "Tango", ... are you saying it is or is not his daughter? I had heard that it is his daughter. And, whether you think it is ballet (huh?) or not, it is very beatiful and inspires me. His focus is on allowing her to feel beauty in the dance. I get chills! Again, does anyone know if it is online? --- Krasimir Stoyanov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes, surely not his daughter. > When I first saw this movie, I thought this was > perfect tango. > Continued to think so in the next couple of years as > I watched it some more > times. > Then. for some years, I did not watch it. > And, an year ago, I saw this same scene - no, it is > not tango at all - it is > ballet. > > About his daughter, Johana Copes, I've seen her > dance real tango, but not > him (the father). > > > - Original Message - > > I think, you mean this one. It is not his daughter, > it's Yacono. > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-7ksPeNsz8&feature=related > > ___ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] The Top Six Tango Cities of the USA?
Providence, RI www.ProvidenceTango.com Top-notch nuevo tango and exchange of lead and follow. They have an all-night milonga to which people come from all over. And, Ellen's cooking is to die for! Of course, NYC. Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] A true tango
I want to clarify that my last post was not directed at Keith. I was just answering his rhetorical question. :o\ And, again, it isn't directed at anyone. I was just observing that tango is improvised and, therefore, we all get different things out of it AND places like blogs and lists are where you find people who are opinionated. So, you get what you get and it would be nice if people remember that we're all different and noone HAS TO BE right. Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] A true tango
--- Keith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What a strange world this is - and what a strange > list. We already have Chris UK [who???] telling > us that Gustavo Naviera is useless. Now we have > Krasimir Stoyanov - does anyone even know who > he is or how he can dance - telling us that a > legendary figure such as Juan Carlos Copes doesn't > dance Tango. Why do so many have so little respect > for those who have achieved so much. What > is it about Tango that makes people this way? It > doesn't seem to happen in the other arts. Certainly > not in Ballroom dancing where former champions are > still revered, no matter how much styles may > change. > I don't know a lot of ballroom and I only know what I know about tango. Given that, this is my answer to your question: In ballroom, the movements, until you become very good, are just patterns. There are things open to interpretation. But, as a basis, it is a whole bunch of patterns. That's where the ballroom teachers make their money. And, that's where *some* tango teachers make their money. Tango, once you get past, say the beginner-intermediate stage, is improvised to a large extent. For those of us who are lucky enough to break free from patterns, it is more so. With an improvised dance, we each get out of it what we get out of it. We are all different. So, here we are, all different. A small segment of the population is head-strong. Is it possible that strong-headed people end up on blogs and lists like this? One final piece to the puzzle ... and I will use me as an example. I excelled at soft tango free from patterns. I am told that I make my follower feel balanced, soft, relaxed, secure ... sometimes, we want to melt! When I see a leader with his left foot jetting out to the left, I know what that does to the follower's comfort level. So, that is what I teach about and write about. So, when I write, I have to be careful not to discount other people's reasoning. We all excelled at different aspects of this dance and we are all head-strong. Sometimes, I fail to remain open minded. Many, many times, others fail to remain open minded to the point that they want to pick on other people. I am sorry for the few times that I have strayed. There are people out there who MUST be right, no matter what and some of us end up fighting with them just because they want to fight. True tango? Give me a break! There are many different "true tangos"! Why? Because it is open to interpretation! So, if we can all say what we think is true tango AND not belittle others, we will learn IN PEACE! Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Truth eliminates myths. But are YOU ready for this?
Igor wrote: > That is the last important thing which makes > a dancer, any dancer, social dancer, great > - he choreogrphes his dance right on spot > to look like a piece of art. Cool! We can all finally agree!!! All of us 1000's of great social dancers choreograph our dance right on the spot to look [ or feel ] like a piece of art. Here's to improvisation! The recent posts took us through a discussion of where choreo fits in the classroom. Something a little different than your email was talking about. But, again, thanks, from the 1000's of us, for the recognition! :o) Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] A true tango
One of my favorite dances is the scene from the movie, Tango, where he dances with his real life daughter in the salon. Is that online, anywhere? --- Igor Polk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This is a true tango: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpLqCth7DrY > Juan Carlos Copes and Cecilia Narova > > How anyone could doubt !? > > Igor Polk > > > > ___ > Tango-L mailing list > Tango-L@mit.edu > http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Truest Form of Tango
This could be quite interesting. Let's try, without explanations and trash talking, just listing people's examples of "The Truest Form of Tango". Again, no need to degrade anyone for listing what they like. This could become a great list from which to learn and compare styles. === Krasimir === http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA-mGU_X8Mc Milonguero http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvYZTC27S1I Nuevo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhfI-wM8q2Y === Igor Polk === http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmPzXwjN8Ac Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
