[Tango-L] Cabeceo
How do you get the waiter's attention at a nice restaurant? Do you physically go into the kitchen to retrieve him. The discussion of the cabaceo and waiters reminds me of an incident that happened during our first trip to Buenos Aires. We went to a milonga that served dinner. We were hungry, and we intended to eat first and then dance a little there. My girlfriend was into the cabaceo, and had already adopted a firm policy of saying no, gracias to any man who came to the table to invite her to dance. (Which was happening pretty often, and it wasn't just tourists.) So, after we were seated and watching the dancing, sure enough in a short time a man came to the table and addressed my partner. She smiled and said no thanks, and he went away. Much later, others in our group had started to wonder when would we ever get to order our food. We were starving. Maybe we should go somewhere else. Where is our waiter? That was when my partner realized that she had rejected the wrong man. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Cabeceo
On Oct 19, 2010, at 2:59 AM, Vince Bagusauskas wrote: On the matter of cabeceo in general, I doubt it would work at many milongas in Australia, because either for seating arrangement or because of the very turned down light levels. And oh some women who take their glasses off for the night :) Vince In Melbourne Why are the lights turned down low? How can you see the dances and the women eagerlly looking at you for dances? The cabaceo isn't a strange ritual. How do you get the waiter's attention at a nice restaurant? Do you physically go into the kitchen to retrieve him. Tom Stermitz c: 303-725-5963 http://www.tango.org Denver, CO 80207 ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Cabeceo
Tom Stermitz said: Why are the lights turned down low? Notions of romantic lighting? In some places the lights could be so low that the candles on the tables are (almost) brighter. How can you see the dances? You need to have one of these: http://tinyurl.com/2f3e7lr How do you get the waiter's attention at a nice restaurant? Not a problem unless it is a certain European country restaurant. You know which one being an American :) Do you physically go into the kitchen to retrieve him? I would not like to enter some kitchens to avoid disappointment. Vince In Melbourne ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Cabeceo
How do you get the waiter's attention at a nice restaurant? Do you physically go into the kitchen to retrieve him. Many/most waiters seem to be oblivious even to someone standing on the table waving both arms in the air. And Yes, I have resorted to a trip to the kitchen - which stirs up a hornets' nest - chefs seem to consider this a major afront. It results in more than enough attention. Fortunately tangueras are more perceptive and the slightest nod will suffice. Likewise waiters in BsAs - who, I think, turn waitering into an art form. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Cabeceo the no
- Original Message From: Michael tangoman...@cavtel.net Technically, the woman never says no with cabeceo. Correct - and that's the beauty of the cabeceo. With verbal invitations and rejections, the ladies will often reap what they sow. If a lady verbally rejects a man because 'he's not good enough' there's a very good chance that, when he is good enough, he'll remember those rejections and won't ask her again. There's a girl in my community that I've always wanted to dance with but she showed no interest and never looked my way so I couldn't give her my walking cabeceo. Friends said I was stupid not to ask her, but that's just me. Then, one day, she caught my eye and smiled. BINGO! That's all it takes. Jack ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] cabeceo
Let’s recap a little. Balazs asked for advice concerning a card and how to introduce the cabeceo into a difficult environment. I think we’ve established that using the card as originally presented pretty much sucks. However, organizers using it on a table would make it acceptable. We have not addressed the issue of his idea of a “policy”. I don’t think that concept would apply on a personal level. It would on an organizational level to avoid discrimination, etc. But I think someone who says “it’s my policy to refuse all dances not asked by cabeceo” would just be seen as inflexible and weird. Besides, I know people who said they had that policy, couldn’t get dances, and caved. Even Argentines have become used to asking to dance or being asked to dance while in the States. We’ve addressed the issue of women refusing/negotiating dances verbally in a nice way. As for Patricia’s request of telling a man that he’ll get dances if he gets better, I don’t think that’s really possible. We also have to accept that people will work only as much as they want to or are capable of. What I have done is tell a man, “We can dance one dance together” but not make reasons why he’ll only get one dance from me or indicate that he's unpleasant. I’ll also make sincere compliments about what I liked better about his dancing since the last time I danced with him several months ago. All you can do is try to inspire, not make him focus on his bad dance ability. As for addressing a difficult environment, I’m not sure what constitutes a difficult environment. Are organizers totally opposed to the cabeceo? Are the men pushy? Are they just not informed? My experience is that if people are informed by someone seen as an authority figure, they’ll follow along. All it usually takes is information. Information can be disseminated by emails, discussion, word-of-mouth. The best bet for introducing the cabeceo into a difficult environment is to enlist the organizer(s) and have them announce the change. They can also ask a visiting instructor to introduce it in workshops. Teachers can make a game of it in a pre-milonga lesson (or regular lesson). An individual who cannot enlist an organizer to the cause can hold her own “Buenos Aires style” milonga, where the rules are to use the cabeceo. Maybe a dollar goes to a charity every time someone asks for a dance (or maybe that’s the fee for the dance). Be creative. A woman can also catch a man’s eye and smile, as Jack pointed out, thereby encouraging the man to use the cabeceo. But she’ll still have to deal with refusing those who ask verbally. In Pittsburgh, teachers introduced the cabeceo into their beginning classes. They reinforced it with their students during the weekly milonga. Tango gypsies used it with each other. But, as Tine pointed out, there are those for whom the cabeceo is lost and they will still ask for a dance. Trini de Pittsburgh ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Cabeceo
I dance in the UK and have reputation in the community I dance in for using the Cabeceo, along with a group of leaders who have all been to BsAs and found that it the nicest way to get dances anyway. Many of the newer followers are told by the more experienced followers, to use the Cabeceo if they would like to dance with the leaders in question. This can backfire when the newer followers come over and say, I have been trying to get your attention but your not looking my way, but one has to just laugh and dance with them anyway. We are slowly but surely moving towards a Cabeceo culture, this always falls short when we travel to other milongas, so often the cortinas are very short or non existent and the floor does not clear between tanda's. Having said all of that there are more important issues to resolve in the UK, like other dancers showing any kind of respect for the line of dance or each other, people not treating the dance floor as thoroughfare etc etc. I am enjoying the discussion though. Peter Rose ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] cabeceo
--- On Mon, 10/18/10, Balazs Gyenis gy...@hps.elte.hu wrote: (I'm a bit confused to hear, though, that on one hand followers need to grow up to deal with social pressure and on the other hand they can't be expected to follow a policy.) Just giving a reality check. I should also point out that handing out cards or literature needs to be cleared with the organizer first. I personally would not allow it because I want my guests to remember what a nice time they had, not that someone (or several) handed them a card. Nor would I want to deal with cards laying around at the end of the night. Trini de Pittsburgh ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Cabeceo the no
Technically, the woman never says no with cabeceo. If wants to dance, she will nod yes. If she doesn't want to dance, she looks away from the man as if she never saw the invitation. In fact, if she isn't interested in dancing with the man, she would never make eye contact in the first place. It's the verbal invitation that requires a verbal response. The bottom line is dancers aren't required to justify no. A woman can accept an invitation from another dancer even if she declined using cabeceo. The etiquette is not to accept an invitation after verbally saying no. If it's too late and she discovers during the tanda that it's not going to work, she can truthfully say I'm off balance or I'm having difficulty following. How the man reacts will determine if the tanda continues and if the woman will dance again with him. Daniel Trenner said a festival There's NO security in tango. Michael I danced Argentine Tango --with the Argentines - Original Message - From: Patricia Katz pk...@trebnet.com Subject: [Tango-L] Cabaceo the no The question is: how does a follower convey to a leader that the no doesn't mean forever, but means that when this particular leader improves then she will accept his invitation, whether by cabaceo or a direct verbal invitation? A cabeceo doesn't address this problem. The no doesn't necessarily mean forever; the woman can give all sorts of excuses for not dancing with a particular leader, but how does she actually tell him that he needs to improve before she will dance with him? For many leaders the no means that she doesn't want to dance with him and he really isn't sure of the reason why, even though she gives some excuses. Most leaders don't feel that the no is because they are not at the level of this leader; this particular leader may think that she doesn't like him or that she's a snob or not part of her particular clique. Most followers here as I indicated in my previous post, will accept an invitation from leaders who may be far below her level. http://www.torontoargentinetango.blogspot.com ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Cabeceo
I applaud you for trying to implement the traditional cabeceo into a North American milonga however I feel you are fighting a losing battle. Even in Buenos Aires it’s hard to find a milonga where the cabeceo is strictly observed. I think you would need to collaborate with the organizer on lighting and seating. The lights need to be bright enough to see across the room and the real challenge would be the seating. Ladies on one side men on the other side and couples seated at one end of the dance floor. In Argentina if you’re not porteno and you don’t adhere to the cabeceo it doesn’t make you a bad dancer but most likely you’ll be dancing with other tourist. Most Argentine women will refuse a dance if not asked properly (cabeceo). Not much socializing going on either and you are ignored unless someone introduces you. Yes there are lots of Tango rules and to some these rules might seem silly but not to Portenos. In a message dated 10/13/2010 3:57:20 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, gy...@hps.elte.hu writes: Hi all, Q: Do people here have experience about instituting the cabeceo to tango communities where it is practically nonexistent? Any strategies that work? ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Cabeceo
I agree that the cabeceo is preferable, but I disagree that it should be enforced. And women are just as bad as men when it comes to using the cabeceo, it takes two to cabeceo ;-) and I think most people (men or woemen) would rather dance than sit on the side as a martyr to the cabeceo. There are many reasons the cabeceo is not used often: The biggest problem is the instructors don't spend enough time teaching it. Dark venues could be a problem, but I haven't been to many that were too dark for people with normal eyesight. (Many newer cameras have low light settings, if you must take pictures) Eyesight is a problem for some who cannot see another person initiating a cabeceo from more than a few feet. Venue layout can be a big problem. It is sometimes impossible to get within the other persons field of cabavision. etc. Then there are the times when you see someone leaving the dance floor who is obviously distressed from their last partner (most often a newer dancer who may be ready to throw in the towel on tango) and may be oblivious to any cabeceo but would benefit from a considerate verbal request to dance from a caring individual. Again, to be clear, the cabeceo should be the preferred method of asking for and accepting a dance, but there are valid exceptions. Glenn I wish more people would abandon asking to dance verbally; above conversation should never take place and if it does it should be after the couple has started dancing (and at that time in a changed way). Cabeceo needs to practiced more and enforced, too. My friend D from the next town up North has said that women should decline verbal invitations and only accept those made by using cabeceo (she is a she herself). Since the men are inherently incapable of complying with the old rules the women should do the policing for the good of us all, IMHO. Surely doesn't help, though, that the milongas are kept darker than my bedroom. One can hardly make out who is sitting on the other side of the room. Question: WHY are the milongas in the US kept so friggin' dark, anyway? Isn't the motion and the dance itself 'romantic' enough? I don't understand why one needs to have a flashlight with them to the milongas.. and this is happening from coast-to-coast in the US., even during festivals when one would like to take video and photos, but alas, can not. Ta. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Cabeceo [was Shocked]
And in ballroom the woman does not have to dance 3 songs in a row with each man who asks. --- On Tue, 2/24/09, Steve Littler s...@stevelittler.com wrote: Yes, but in ballroom the woman doesn't have to hug up to a stranger in an intimate fashion, heart-to-heart, cheek-to-cheek. She usually stands apart and looks away from him. (It didn't take me long to quit ballroom after I found Tango.) Steve Jack Dylan wrote: This might come as a surprise to many but not everyone in enamored with the cabeceo. My partner danced Ballroom for many years, where the tradition is that the man comes to her table and politely asks her for the pleasure of the next dance. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Cabeceo [was Shocked]
This might come as a surprise to many but not everyone in enamored with the cabeceo. My partner danced Ballroom for many years, where the tradition is that the man comes to her table and politely asks her for the pleasure of the next dance. And, if he has a little charming chat, then so much the better. For her, a wink and a nod just isn't what a gentleman does if he wants to dance with a lady. And let's not forget why the cabeceo was invented - to protect the male Argentines' fragile ego. And, as for the lady searching out a man's eyes in the hope that he will invite her to dance, well, to my partner, that's just not how a lady behaves. Tonight, I'm going to El Beso, where I'll again be confronted by a full-wall-length of ladies with fixed smiles, desperatley hoping that someone, anyone will ask them to dance. It's just a little sad ... Jack From: Tango Mail ta...@springssauna.com To: tango-l@mit.edu I wish more people would abandon asking to dance verbally; Cabeceo needs to practiced more and enforced, too. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Cabeceo [was Shocked]
cabeceo was also designed to help the ladies as well as the men. I hate having to turn down dancers I don't want to dance with when they come to my table to ask me to dance, because no, I don't dance with everyone that asks. as for the practices in ballroom...COMPLETELY different set of circumstances! I. Jack Dylan wrote: This might come as a surprise to many but not everyone in enamored with the cabeceo. My partner danced Ballroom for many years, where the tradition is that the man comes to her table and politely asks her for the pleasure of the next dance. And, if he has a little charming chat, then so much the better. For her, a wink and a nod just isn't what a gentleman does if he wants to dance with a lady. And let's not forget why the cabeceo was invented - to protect the male Argentines' fragile ego. And, as for the lady searching out a man's eyes in the hope that he will invite her to dance, well, to my partner, that's just not how a lady behaves. Tonight, I'm going to El Beso, where I'll again be confronted by a full-wall-length of ladies with fixed smiles, desperatley hoping that someone, anyone will ask them to dance. It's just a little sad ... Jack From: Tango Mail ta...@springssauna.com To: tango-l@mit.edu I wish more people would abandon asking to dance verbally; Cabeceo needs to practiced more and enforced, too. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Cabeceo [was Shocked]
On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 2:43 PM, Jack Dylan jackdylan...@yahoo.com wrote: This might come as a surprise to many but not everyone in enamored with the cabeceo. My partner danced Ballroom for many years, where the tradition is that the man comes to her table and politely asks her for the pleasure of the next dance. Thanks Jack, if I ever decide to dance ballroom socially, I'll know what to do. Huck ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Cabeceo [was Shocked]
Yes, but in ballroom the woman doesn't have to hug up to a stranger in an intimate fashion, heart-to-heart, cheek-to-cheek. She usually stands apart and looks away from him. (It didn't take me long to quit ballroom after I found Tango.) Steve Jack Dylan wrote: This might come as a surprise to many but not everyone in enamored with the cabeceo. My partner danced Ballroom for many years, where the tradition is that the man comes to her table and politely asks her for the pleasure of the next dance. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
