[Tango-L] Gender Imbalance in Tango
It would be interesting to know whether the gender imbalance in a given tango community reflects the gender imbalance in its city's population. Here's a link to a map showing the gender imbalance of U.S. metropolitan areas. http://creativeclass.typepad.com/thecreativityexchange/2008/03/the-singles-map.html It's from Richard Florida's book, Who's Your City? Tango draws a very small subset of the population, and teaching methods filter the population. So the gender imbalance in tango may or may not mirror that in the population. With best regards, Steve ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Gender Imbalance in Tango
The above makes SUPER good sense to me! ..I remember when first seeing and becoming 'hooked' on AT, the only thing that I prayed for, was to be able to navigate a revolution of the dance floor..much as Tom describes it. If he can produce this so quickly (I'm still screwed up in the slow tango) then yes, he has THE way that AT should be taught, here[ in my not so humble opinion.]..and it follows;..why aren't more teachers doing this?? ..answer: it's not easy to be an insitefull, intelligent master teacher and Tom obviously is one of the rare ones. My wish? That Tom would spend some time training teachers. Is there some way to get the message out, outside of traveling to take his class?? Put it into words that anyone/everyone can understand..do videos that accomplish that.. or heck, buy a plane ticket...but let's get this know-how into the AT teaching community!!! - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Gender Imbalance in Tango
Steve, the gender balance in Tokyo is about 50:50, or rather samll shortness of women, while in tango there are about 3 women for every man. The two have nothing to do with each other. > It would be interesting to know whether the gender imbalance in a given > tango community reflects the gender imbalance in its city's population. > ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Gender Imbalance in Tango
Astrid wrote: >the gender balance in Tokyo is about 50:50, or rather samll shortness of >women, while in tango there are about 3 women for every man. The two have >nothing to do with each other. I would think that at least three factors could affect the gender balance for tango in a city. 1) The cultural attitudes toward women and men participating in such activities; 2) How the teachers filter the population to create the tango community; 3) The gender balance for *single* men and women in the city. I'll expand on the third point a little: In most U.S. cities, the vast majority of tango dancers are single. Estimate I've seen place the number of single people dancing tango in most U.S. cities around 75-80%. If most adults in a city are married, the gender balance for single adults may be quite a bit different than for the population as a whole. If the pool from which tango dancers are drawn is not gender balanced, it would seem as though the lack of gender balance should affect participation to at least some degree. Arguing otherwise would require claiming that the cultural attitudes and/or filtering are so strong that they completely dominate any potential gender imbalance. With best regards, Steve ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Gender Imbalance in Tango
> If the pool from which tango dancers are drawn is not gender balanced, it > would seem as though the lack of gender balance should affect > participation to at least some degree. Arguing otherwise would require > claiming that the cultural attitudes and/or filtering are so strong that > they completely dominate any potential gender imbalance. In Japan, it is considered embarrassing for men to dance. In fact, social dancing has been traditionally viewed as sleazy, and the attitude has only improved recently a little. Some of the tango dancers here are married, esp. the older men, but practically nobody comes to tango with their wife or husband. (going out together and meet other people is not one of their customs here, traditionally) > ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Gender Imbalance in Tango
I accept Astrid's and Bibi's views that culture has a powerful affect on the ratio of women to men dancing tango in Tokyo. I find myseslf wondering, however, whether the cultural determination of ratio of women to men dancing tango in Tokyo is so strong that if the number of single men in Tokyo were to double while the number of single women was held constant, would tango venues in Tokyo still see the current ratio of approximately 3 women to 1 man. Might the ratio not change toward 3:2? Given that are sufficient similarities in overall culture between Denver and Chicago, I think that any differences in the gender balance between single men and women in the two cities could affect the gender balances of tango in the two cities. Chicago has more single women than men. Denver has more single men than women. With best regards, Steve ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Gender Imbalance in Tango
In the beginner classes, the gender ratios are always close to 50/50. The problem is in the upper level classes. I don't want to be harsh, but look at the Adv-beginner and Intermediate classes for the different teachers in one community. Some are 50/50 some are 80/20. In other words, the problem is methodological and intentional (or ignorant). Retention rates in tango are low, so the filtering process is determines the gender ratios. Out of a new beginner class, maybe 90% quit. If the rejection rate is unbalanced, say 90% women and 95% men, the teacher is creating double the number of women. In other words, the filtering is so drastic that very small changes in the filtering process has a huge effect down the road. It therefore pays off critically if you can figure out how to change that situation, which specifically means increasing the number of men who succeed. If there are extra guys, the number of women will increase to fill the slots. Women have multiple ways to become excited about tango, and in N. America women are more likely to have danced as children. A beginner woman can get a pretty amazing dance from an advanced leader, so she is more likely to see the rewards of sticking it out. It is difficult to create the equivalent for the man. Performance anxiety, in terms of social success and in getting her to do the dance steps, is probably the biggest obstacle for the men. After teaching for 12 years, I've arranged and rearranged the experience for beginner guys to ensure that they walk out of each class, and each class series feeling successful. Retention of the guys happens if the teacher can create the following learning experience: At the end of a one hour class, most of the guys can walk their partner through a dance at a regular milonga. They are still beginners, but they can manage (feel they are in control of) their simple vocabulary, they aren't running into people or stopping in confusion, and they feel like they are "almost" dancing. Notice it is about whether they FEEL successful. There are several specific things that help this: - Simplify; tango takes time - I use simple steps repeated until the men feel their movements are easy - I attach the simple steps to the musical phrase so that they "feel" right - Improvisation is built by swapping short sequences; it is harder to split up longer sequences. - I don't teach fancy figures, as that leads men to frustration. - I don't teach long sequences, as that turns tango into an intellectual experience, and avoids the intuitive, physical learning. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Gender Imbalance in Tango
Thanks for the flattery, but as they say, "there's more than one way to do it". You can't provide a formula that exactly works for everyone. My suggestions are useful for teachers to try things, fail and try again, and think through their methods. I mean, it's easy for me to say "Make the guys feel successful", but in practice each teacher has to make it work with their own personality, and their own culture. I think the biggest problem is that teachers present material at the level they understand it, not in the layers that make it easy for beginners to achieve success. I've worked with some teachers. The group in Ann Arbor asked me to help build a curriculum. They have taken my ideas, made them their own, and gone much further than me. On Apr 24, 2008, at 9:19 AM, Mario wrote: > The above makes SUPER good sense to me! ..I remember when first > seeing > and becoming 'hooked' on AT, the only thing that I prayed for, was > to be able > to navigate a revolution of the dance floor..much as Tom describes > it. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Gender Imbalance in Tango
Tom Stermitz wrote: >Retention of the guys happens if the teacher can create the following >learning experience: At the end of a one hour class, most of the guys >can walk their partner through a dance at a regular milonga. They are >still beginners, but they can manage (feel they are in control of) >their simple vocabulary, they aren't running into people or stopping >in confusion, and they feel like they are "almost" dancing. Notice it >is about whether they FEEL successful. >There are several specific things that help this: > - Simplify; tango takes time > - I use simple steps repeated until the men feel their movements are > easy > - I attach the simple steps to the musical phrase so that they > "feel" right > - Improvisation is built by swapping short sequences; it is harder > to split up longer sequences. > - I don't teach fancy figures, as that leads men to frustration. > - I don't teach long sequences, as that turns tango into an > intellectual experience, and avoids the intuitive, physical learning. I think there are some communities where the students end up sorting out among the teachers--with one group of teachers teaching the basics Tom describes and another group to teaching fancy figures and long sequences. Some of the sorting is by gender as Brick Robbins observed in San Diego. http://pythia.uoregon.edu/~llynch/Tango-L/2006/msg08750.html One interesting question is to what extent a tango community only has one shot any given newbie. If someone first goes to a teacher who doesn't suit his/her learning needs are they inclined to drop out or move onto another instructor? With best regards, Steve ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Gender Imbalance in Tango (dropouts)
Tom Stermitz wrote: > Retention of the guys happens if the teacher can create the following > learning experience: At the end of a one hour class, most of the guys can > walk their partner through a dance at a regular milonga. [...] Notice it is > about whether they FEEL successful. Tom, do you dance with these guys yourself? (I mean, to "FEEL successful" means two things, when you consider it...) I.e.,... ARE they successful? IME, newbie attrition comes from one very simple (and seemingly ineradicable) problem: beginners learning with beginners. Sometimes I wonder if US tango would attract and retain more people if there were simply no beginner classes at all. It works quite well in yoga, I notice; new people there simply look around themselves and make an effort to blend in. Jake ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
