Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo Milonguero
This movement, sometimes called 'el puente' (bridge) can be seen now and then in Buenos Aires milongas, but one may have to wait an hour or so scanning the floor to see it. However, in this movement, the woman is not displaced from her position, i.e., her feet do not change position. It is not a 'volcada' (fall) as used in nuevo, where the off axis tilt is so extreme it causes the woman to fall off her axis and step forward. IMHO It is the same thing technically. The difference is only in the amount (which I believe is the question of personal preference = style). I believe that 'nuevo' became a term that doesn't describe a form of dancing. It doesn't really mean any type or style of dancing that could be identified without doubt just by looking. The few things that nuevo DOES mean is: - a structured way of building up your dancing (which rather a method of teaching of philosophy of learning) vs. building it up by imitation of sequences or moves only that was devised by the teacher (which probably never existed in a pure form in the first place) - a free, open way of thinking about tango as a dance, which means there is a POSSIBILITY of doing all moves possible by a couple in embrace to tango music vs. doing only a set of moves, form, or extent of moves and not doing others, as it is not in the tradition (of a certain teacher, style, area, community etc.) - goal in the structure of nuevo is to identify the simplest and smallest common technical elements that forms the basis of all and every tango style, that are intercompatible on a very wide domain of moves - another goal is to identify the ways to increase internal body awareness of these technical elements, to devise methods that make connection, communication between couple understandable for those who do not understand it yet In simple terms: using the scientific method to analyse, teach or 'build' (improvise) tango. It is the result of the same process that happened to all folklore dances around the world which required a teacher (vs. was learned in its natural environment by imitation only). There are thousands of pages of research on the subject. If you use the results on tango, it yields only this: tango as it was danced does not exists anymore, as ALL the original social factors, institutions, locations, cultural background has changed, disappeared or was replaced by other forms. The present tango has teachers, instead of self-teaching societies, present tango has milongas organized by a subculture of dancers for a subculture of dancers, instead of mainstream business to the general population, present tango has choreographed shows, which did not exist before, present tango is mostly danced by non-porteno people, outside BsAs/Montevideo barrios, mostly whom are upper middle class intellectuals with university degrees, openness to the world, sometimes speaking several languages, vs. the uneducated porteno lower class workers, later on mostly middle class non-intellectual professionals with still a lot less education, present tango is danced by people conditioned for the present day perception of personal freedom, goals, rights, way of life, social rules, sexual roles, vs. something that existed quite a few large political, social, technical and cultural revolutions before. Face it: what is NOT 'nuevo' is really just an attempt to imitated the form of a dance that was danced a very long time ago in a different era. A historical dance. It is the same thing as if you would try to recreate the 80s style in pop. The 80s pop is still pop, the same way 2009's popular music is called pop. Are the two the same? Surely not. Are they called the same? Most definitely yes. Are the former still current? No, unless you specifically play it at a retro-party. (We still have balls where we dance a late 18th century dance - waltz - onto late 19th/early 20th century music, in usually mid-20th century clothing, but those are not your everyday life are they?) Of course some forms of music do change so much that they get a new name after a certain time, but that's not the issue here. If the time distance in this example is not 'big' enough, then take classical styles. There are huge differences between styles: baroque spanned two hundred years. Vivaldi is a literally power metal compared to Monteverdi, but it is still the same style. (NB: the actual naming of 'baroque' style in music was invented almost 50 years AFTER tango appeared, and was not generally used until the later era of the golden age of tango...so, names do not mean anything) Cheers, Aron -- Ecsedy Áron *** Aron ECSEDY Tel: +36 20 66-36-006 http://www.milonga.hu/ http://www.holgyvalasz.hu/ __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4479 (20091004) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com
Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo Milonguero
On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 11:13 AM, Ecsedy Áron a...@milonga.hu wrote: I believe that 'nuevo' became a term that doesn't describe a form of dancing. It doesn't really mean any type or style of dancing that could be identified without doubt just by looking. The few things that nuevo DOES mean is: - a structured way of building up your dancing (which rather a method of teaching of philosophy of learning) vs. building it up by imitation of sequences or moves only that was devised by the teacher (which probably never existed in a pure form in the first place) - a free, open way of thinking about tango as a dance, which means there is a POSSIBILITY of doing all moves possible by a couple in embrace to tango music vs. doing only a set of moves, form, or extent of moves and not doing others, as it is not in the tradition (of a certain teacher, style, area, community etc.) - goal in the structure of nuevo is to identify the simplest and smallest common technical elements that forms the basis of all and every tango style, that are intercompatible on a very wide domain of moves - another goal is to identify the ways to increase internal body awareness of these technical elements, to devise methods that make connection, communication between couple understandable for those who do not understand it yet What about cargo pants? And you didn't say anything about having to wear designer sneakers with suede glued to the bottoms of them. Huck ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo Milonguero
Áron, you wrote: I believe that 'nuevo' became a term that doesn't describe a form of dancing. It doesn't really mean any type or style of dancing that could be identified without doubt just by looking... The few things that nuevo DOES mean is: - a structured way of building up your dancing... - a free, open way of thinking about tango as a dance... - goal in the structure of nuevo is to identify the simplest and smallest common technical elements that forms the basis of all and every tango style, that are intercompatible on a very wide domain of moves... - another goal is to identify the ways to increase internal body awareness of these technical elements, to devise methods that make connection, communication between couple understandable for those who do not understand it yet... ...tango as it was danced does not exists anymore, as ALL the original social factors, institutions, locations, cultural background has changed, disappeared or was replaced by other forms... ...Face it: what is NOT 'nuevo' is really just an attempt to imitated the form of a dance that was danced a very long time ago in a different era. A historical dance. It is the same thing as if you would try to recreate the 80s style in pop... There are huge differences between [classical] styles: baroque spanned two hundred years. Vivaldi is a literally power metal compared to Monteverdi, but it is still the same style... Well, I am just awestruck by this message - a true pleasure to read and savor. Thank you for taking the conversation to a new level. Vivaldi as power metal - I love it! Bravissimo! All the best, Brian Dunn Dance of the Heart Boulder, Colorado USA www.danceoftheheart.com Building a Better World, One Tango at a Time ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo Milonguero
On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Brian Dunn brianpd...@earthlink.netwrote: Áron, you wrote: Vivaldi is a literally power metal compared to Monteverdi, but it is still the same style... Well, I am just awestruck by this message - a true pleasure to read and savor. Thank you for taking the conversation to a new level. Vivaldi as power metal - I love it! Bravissimo! Other than a complete (and common) misuse of the word literally, it was indeed a very interesting comparison. Huck ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo Milonguero
Thank you for correcting it. It was probably a Hunglicism :) The most likely reason is that I spent only ten days of my life in an English speaking country. Also helps when your parents speak the language and it is the only way they talk to you while you grow up, which in my case was not a given... The 'a' was also unnecessary in the quoted sentence. Upon second reading I realized that I made quite a few mistakes in the text, but I didn't really mean to write a university paper either. I guess most people still understood what I wanted to communicate. Aron Budapest, Hungary Huck Kennedy írta: On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Brian Dunn brianpd...@earthlink.netwrote: Áron, you wrote: Vivaldi is a literally power metal compared to Monteverdi, but it is still the same style... Well, I am just awestruck by this message - a true pleasure to read and savor. Thank you for taking the conversation to a new level. Vivaldi as power metal - I love it! Bravissimo! Other than a complete (and common) misuse of the word literally, it was indeed a very interesting comparison. Huck ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l -- Ecsedy Áron *** Aron ECSEDY Tel: +36 20 66-36-006 http://www.milonga.hu/ http://www.holgyvalasz.hu/ __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4479 (20091004) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo Milonguero
What about cargo pants? And you didn't say anything about having to wear designer sneakers with suede glued to the bottoms of them. What do cargo pants have to do with dancing? I mean fashions changed quite a bit during the last 100+ years of tango and I would say that if contemporary people normally go out partying in cargo pants nowadays, then going out to tango in cargo pants would just imply that they are trying to make tango a part of their 'daily routine' and not some kind of an atavism like the fancy balls or ballroom competitions lamely mimicing the parties of the nobility in the past (in the US: mimicing the partying of rich families of the past who in turn had been mimicing the partying of European nobility). Neither I, nor my friends wear a tuxedo or even a fancy striped suit when they go out to have fun (dancing or not). They rather wear jeans or cargo pants. To me that means tango - by itself - doesn't come with a dress code. Of course, you can organize a fancy milonga, but that will be a 'special event'. In our community we have several people who don't even have a suit or even a dinner jacket. They would certainly feel stupid if they'd need to buy one to dance tango. Cheers, Aron -- Ecsedy Áron *** Aron ECSEDY Tel: +36 20 66-36-006 http://www.milonga.hu/ http://www.holgyvalasz.hu/ __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 4479 (20091004) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
From: Ecsedy Áron Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo Milonguero
What a delightful read Aron on what is tango: tango as it was danced does not exists anymore, as ALL the original social factors, institutions, locations, cultural background has changed, disappeared or was replaced by other forms. So why do so many people make a pilgrimage to BsAs? cheers ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Nuevo Milonguero
This thread provokes me to say: I read people I respect equally seemingly on one side or another of a divide. How can this be? Well, fortunately, we all have our own relationships and/or opinions. So we can see that there is no problem - other than semantics or individual terms of reference, probably. I just want to say that I personally feel so happy - and have for years - that tango dancers who's first language is not English just do it - send their thoughts to this forum. I hope they are never discouraged from doing so. I believe English-speaking people should work hard to read thoughtful nuances (as opposed to literal meanings) into such posts. And thread accordingly. Let's read and write as we dance - not as we read in our own language with judgement and assurance. :-) ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Tango-L] Nuevo Milonguero
No, but in tradition-minded BsAs, dressing in elegant sport (no jeans, shorts, cargo pants, or athletic shoes), is in respect to the tango. Normally gentlemen wear nice slacks with a button shirt. Jackets or tuxedos are not necessary. cherie http://tangocherie.blogspot.com ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo Milonguero
When I was learning tango in the mid-1990s, nuevo clearly referred to the work of Gustavo, Fabian and Chicho. Nuevo meant analysis and exploration. I know that these days some people use nuevo to mean a style (or even a music?... although that doesn't make any sense to at all). To me style is something you put on top of tango, and is a choice, as in choice of embrace, choice of figures, choice of appearance. If we're inventing, we could make up other names: Mis-tango, Meh- tango, Neo-Tango, and even Non-tango. I really liked Ecsedy's comment about Nuevo, reminding us that Nuevo is NOT a style or form of dancing. I agree with him that Nuevo is more appropriate to refer to a method of analysis. This restricted definition of nuevo FREES US UP to view tango as multi-dimensional. Analysis, technique and style are different dimensions. In other words, to me: - tango (the essence) is about feeling, intuition, musicality, energy, dynamics, relationship and culture. - steps are about analysis, mechanics, choreography, and decisions about how to move. - style is the look and appearance of tango. - history is the rich tradition of tango in it's time periods and neighborhoods. In my analysis, nuevo only usefully refers to the middle item. Stylistically: If milonguero (whatever that means) is my preferred style, my purpose is to express music, and the energy of partnership. Milonguero means in the choreographical sense, my steps are dictated by trying to maintain a very close connection at all times. Technically: Yes, I have studied and incorporate nuevo methodology in the gustavian sense. And as a teacher and dancer I really appreciate technical issues of axis and balance between axes, symmetry and mirrors, possibilities and technical analysis. Steps and technique are certainly helpful for expression. Essentially: But, the most important thing remains: dancing tango is mainly about expressing music and feelings. Historically, if we talk about Tango,it is so important that tango not lose its ties to its traditions and history. On Oct 4, 2009, at 12:13 PM, Ecsedy Áron wrote: This movement, sometimes called 'el puente' (bridge) can be seen now and then in Buenos Aires milongas, but one may have to wait an hour or so scanning the floor to see it. However, in this movement, the woman is not displaced from her position, i.e., her feet do not change position. It is not a 'volcada' (fall) as used in nuevo, where the off axis tilt is so extreme it causes the woman to fall off her axis and step forward. IMHO It is the same thing technically. The difference is only in the amount (which I believe is the question of personal preference = style). I believe that 'nuevo' became a term that doesn't describe a form of dancing. It doesn't really mean any type or style of dancing that could be identified without doubt just by looking. The few things that nuevo DOES mean is: - a structured way of building up your dancing (which rather a method of teaching of philosophy of learning) vs. building it up by imitation of sequences or moves only that was devised by the teacher (which probably never existed in a pure form in the first place) - a free, open way of thinking about tango as a dance, which means there is a POSSIBILITY of doing all moves possible by a couple in embrace to tango music vs. doing only a set of moves, form, or extent of moves and not doing others, as it is not in the tradition (of a certain teacher, style, area, community etc.) - goal in the structure of nuevo is to identify the simplest and smallest common technical elements that forms the basis of all and every tango style, that are intercompatible on a very wide domain of moves - another goal is to identify the ways to increase internal body awareness of these technical elements, to devise methods that make connection, communication between couple understandable for those who do not understand it yet Tom Stermitz http://www.tango.org Denver, CO 80207 ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo Milonguero
On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 1:54 PM, Tango Society of Central Illinois tango.soci...@gmail.com wrote: Yahoo has been holding 'rontango' hostage all day due to spam suspicion, so I'm posting a reply from another account --- On Thu, 10/1/09, Sorin Varzaru ta...@bostonphotographs.com wrote: Huh, I must've been to another BsAs in June and July. And maybe you should tell Tete that the way he dances is all wrong. I've seen him leading off axis moves, and reverse roles with a number of women. I actually have a picture of that. I'm assuming this was a demo. I've seen Tete dance in several milongas in both Buenos Aires and the US, and I didn't see him switch roles or lead off axis movements. Sorin , I think I know what you are talking about, as I have seen (and have been the recipient of) it a number of times while in BsAs. I have never seen Tete changing roles within the dance. What Tete *will *occasionally do (and what I suspect you were witnessing) is change the arm positions. With him, everything comes from the chest - *his*chest. The position of his arms is irrelevant - he can have his right arm or his left across the lady's back - it doesn't matter, as it in no way affects the lead. abrazos -- Yours in dance dementia, Niki ( http://tangotrails.blogspot.com ) ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
[Tango-L] Nuevo Milonguero
I am posting what amounts to pure treason. The Milonguero's last hope is alas...no more! Here, two godesses of the Milonguero cult, introduce a new wrinkle to the dance; one that I, myself and many others, were hoping to never see...Alas, fair Prince...we are no more. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNcVDHdxCbY ..in all seriousness I really admire both women as great dancers of the tango style that I aspire to and I will attend their Academia when I finally get to BsAs...but you know what? People are going to see performances like this and think that it's cool and actually do it and develope it further...ugh. Such 'nuevo' nonsense is perfect for cultures outside of BsAs that have an entirely different 'interest' in the dance. So called Argentine Tango is morphing at light speed...Hamburg, Holland, Italy, Turkey, Russia..wow, what will emerge from these centers? I am both amazed, interested and alarmed..alarmed por mi querrido abrazo del tango Argentine http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=videossearch_query=tango+milonguerosearch_sort=video_view_count ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo Milonguero
Hi Mario, I know you posted this tongue-in-cheek, but rest assured. This looked like it was a demo at the end of a class, not during a milonga. Teachers do not wear jazz sneakers at milongas. Don't let the background fool you. When Susanna toured with her niece Maria, she was also promoting Maria as a teacher, so it makes sense that they demonstrate that Maria dances both roles. And switching roles is not nuevo. By the way, Susanna will be in Pittsburgh next weekend (Oct. 8-14) if you'd like to come for a visit. Trini de Pittsburgh --- On Sat, 9/26/09, Mario sopel...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Mario sopel...@yahoo.com Subject: [Tango-L] Nuevo Milonguero To: tango-l@mit.edu Date: Saturday, September 26, 2009, 9:30 PM I am posting what amounts to pure treason. The Milonguero's last hope is alas...no more! Here, two godesses of the Milonguero cult, introduce a new wrinkle to the dance; one that I, myself and many others, were hoping to never see...Alas, fair Prince...we are no more. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNcVDHdxCbY ..in all seriousness I really admire both women as great dancers of the tango style that I aspire to and I will attend their Academia when I finally get to BsAs...but you know what? People are going to see performances like this and think that it's cool and actually do it and develope it further...ugh. Such 'nuevo' nonsense is perfect for cultures outside of BsAs that have an entirely different 'interest' in the dance. So called Argentine Tango is morphing at light speed...Hamburg, Holland, Italy, Turkey, Russia..wow, what will emerge from these centers? I am both amazed, interested and alarmed..alarmed por mi querrido abrazo del tango Argentine http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=videossearch_query=tango+milonguerosearch_sort=video_view_count ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo Milonguero
From: Mario sopel...@yahoo.com Here, two godesses of the Milonguero cult, introduce a new wrinkle to the dance; one that I, myself and many others, were hoping to never see...Alas, fair Prince...we are no more. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNcVDHdxCbY Firstly, this isn't Nuevo and, secondly, it's not a performance. It's clearly a demonstration at the end of a class. But you'd be right to attend their classes. The wonderful Susanna Miller and Maria Plazaola are 2 of the very best teachers of milonguero style. I'm not a big fan of same-sex dances [to put it mildy] but this is, by far, the best demonstration I've ever seen by 2 women. Jack ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo Milonguero
Does dancing with same sex new to Argentine Tango? We all know the answer to this! If you go back to the developmental stages of Tango, you see men dancing with other men. After a decade or so, women were introduced to Tango. Therefore pre-milongueros danced with each other either to practice, or to show off for status gain in the brotherhood, or to attract women at peringundines: a.k.a academias. Even later around golden age of Tango, sometimes only best dancers could get to dance with good followers, if a leader wasn't that good he frequently would end up trying the moves with other guys. Actually there was a thread in sometime last year titled Early Dancing in Argentina on Tango-L, and you can find the whole discussion from the archives, but here is my post to that thread last year. --- Masculination of Women in Tango While i was looking for something else i noticed this paragraph from the book called Tango and the Political Economy of Passion by M. Savigliano (pages 60-61). No interpretations entertain the idea that women took pleasure in dancing with one another. Instead, male authors have reasoned that woman-with-woman tangoing must be either a preparation or a poor substitute for tangoing with men. There are also records of few early episodes of women dancing tango with each other in public. These performance have been constructed as acts presented for the pleasure of male spectators. Again, the assumption has been that a woman's erotic interest was not in her female tango partner but in the men who gazed at the spectacle.Thus, women's eroticism is constituted as restricted to a heterosexual money economy [...]. The milongueras eroticism circulated in a strictly limited way, confined to illegitimate encounters marked by heterosexism and class. Another interesting note from E.H. Puccia's book El Buenos Aires de An. Villoldo 1860-1919, page 155) newspaper [El Nacional 27.01.1881] note about female leaders in the early years of Argentine Tango talks about a woman called Carlota Gonzalez who lives in La Boca at Suarez No 81, she was well known and respected dancer with masculine energy and her knife... In Historia del tango, Leon Benaros notes that Diccionario historico argentino defines the academies (a.k.a peringundines) as the venues dancing was between men only. Uruguayan Historian J.C Puppo in his book, Ese mundo del bajo, pages 29-30, informs us about Cafe Zunino in Montevideo, all regulars were men, also well known tango venue with many popular tango musicians and dancers visits ( i.e.Orquesta de Arolas played at Cafe Zunino in 1919). Cafe Zunino was a gay-cafe of the time where homosexuals call it Conventillo Rosado. Some of the popular dancers were nicknamed with feminine meanings El Yesero, La Lora, La Loca Garcia, La Vieja. Tango was a perfect match for vida mala those days, Lidia Ferrari claims that tango is innocent and it shouldn't be labeled, she says whoever wants to integrate their fantasies into tango, they are the responsible ones of the negative labeling. Body-Gender issues in Argentine Tango is a very interesting subject which remains left behind by official tango history. Burak Chicago On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 8:35 AM, Jack Dylan jackdylan...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Mario sopel...@yahoo.com Here, two godesses of the Milonguero cult, introduce a new wrinkle to the dance; one that I, myself and many others, were hoping to never see...Alas, fair Prince...we are no more. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNcVDHdxCbY Firstly, this isn't Nuevo and, secondly, it's not a performance. It's clearly a demonstration at the end of a class. But you'd be right to attend their classes. The wonderful Susanna Miller and Maria Plazaola are 2 of the very best teachers of milonguero style. I'm not a big fan of same-sex dances [to put it mildy] but this is, by far, the best demonstration I've ever seen by 2 women. Jack ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo Milonguero
I agree this is not nuevo milonguero. It is 2 women dancing together and changing roles. Ignoring that, it otherwise looks like tango milonguero, the tango danced in the milongas of Buenos Aires. However, same sex couples dancing together are extremely rare in the over 100 traditional milongas in Buenos Aires. It is not the norm in traditional tango culture, where a man leads and a woman follows. However, there are a few non-traditional milongas such as La Marshall where same sex couples or role reversal is commonplace. These milongas are clearly labeled or identified in advertising as non-traditional in one sense or another. As for nuevo milonguero, it is a label used to describe the insertion of nuevo elements such as volcadas and colgadas into tango milonguero, i.e., the use of these elements in a close embrace. It is a term that is used for marketing purposes, to attract people to tango danced in close embrace who would otherwise not be interested. Nuevo elements are not part of the tango milonguero danced in the milongas of Buenos Aires. Many will say that nuevo elements are derived from traditional tango. A volcada is a 'fall'. Movements such as a calesita with a tilt (used rarely in Bs As milonga), sometimes pointed to as the 'origin' of the volcada, are not volcadas; the women does not fall from her axis. A milonguero does not pull or push a woman off her axis. Bad dancers might. The only colgadas I have seen in Buenos Aires milongas are the jewelry around women's necks. As for 'linear', 'circular' and whatever direction boleos and ganchos and the wrapping of legs around body parts that are best left unwrapped, they just don't occur in Bs As milongas. They violate other dancers' space. That is contrary to milonga codes. Ron --- On Thu, 10/1/09, Jack Dylan jackdylan...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Jack Dylan jackdylan...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo Milonguero To: tango-l@mit.edu Date: Thursday, October 1, 2009, 1:35 PM From: Mario sopel...@yahoo.com Here, two godesses of the Milonguero cult, introduce a new wrinkle to the dance; one that I, myself and many others, were hoping to never see...Alas, fair Prince...we are no more. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNcVDHdxCbY Firstly, this isn't Nuevo and, secondly, it's not a performance. It's clearly a demonstration at the end of a class. But you'd be right to attend their classes. The wonderful Susanna Miller and Maria Plazaola are 2 of the very best teachers of milonguero style. I'm not a big fan of same-sex dances [to put it mildy] but this is, by far, the best demonstration I've ever seen by 2 women. Jack ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo Milonguero
Huh, I must've been to another BsAs in June and July. And maybe you should tell Tete that the way he dances is all wrong. I've seen him leading off axis moves, and reverse roles with a number of women. I actually have a picture of that. Good dancers use whatever they can to make the dance fun. The difference between them and the bad dancers is they will only lead the moves that can be done in the available space and both themselves an their partners can actually execute it. Maybe some people on tango-l could try spending less time arguing about tango and more time actually dancing. Just a thought. Sorin my photography site: http://www.bostonphotographs.com my milonga review site: http://www.milongareview.com blog: http://sorinsblog.blogspot.com email: so...@bostonphotographs.com On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 12:42 PM, RonTango ronta...@rocketmail.com wrote: Nuevo elements are not part of the tango milonguero danced in the milongas of Buenos Aires. A milonguero does not pull or push a woman off her axis. Bad dancers might. The only colgadas I have seen in Buenos Aires milongas are the jewelry around women's necks. As for 'linear', 'circular' and whatever direction boleos and ganchos and the wrapping of legs around body parts that are best left unwrapped, they just don't occur in Bs As milongas. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] Nuevo Milonguero
Recently I looked at Tango Bar again. I seemed to remember that there was an awful lot of the moves that are usually thought of as nuevo in there. There is in particular one scene in which dancers dance to La Comparsita in a very elegant setting. They appear to be in very close proximity to each other, based on the positions of their feet. You see, the first 2/3 of the scene shows only their feet and legs. Again, many many, very complicated movements and foot play. Many things that most of us would probably label as nuevo. The punch line here is that finally, we see the dancers from the chest up and note that they are all at least middle aged. The film has a 1988 copyright. Fabian Salas states that the first meetings of their Tango Investigation Group happened before 1990, and most sources list 1995 - 1997 as the years for the Group. So it is extremely unlikely that the filmed performances were influenced by Nuevo. Salas has said that We came up with in line boleos and ganchos like this, but everything was already there. We didnt invent them. They were already there. http://www.totango.net/salas2.html If you wish to read a more in depth coverage of this look at this url http://www.history-of-tango.com/tango-renaissance.html Close embrace dancers looking like Nuevo dancers? It is perhaps a case of Back to the Future. Meawhile, it is possible to use the process of analyzing how apilado movements work to teach people how to dance the apilado style of close embrace, and I know at least one instructor (and I can probably count two) that approach their teaching that way. In that respect the Nuevo Milonguero label might be appropriate. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
