Re: [Tango-L] Report from Buenos Aires #6: Social customs

2009-04-20 Thread Shahrukh Merchant
> Several years ago, somebody wrote on the list that you shouldn?t take
> photos or videos at milongas because some people don?t want to be seen
> with partners they aren?t married to. I thought this was strange but
> then the Argentine culture is different from the American culture.

Yes, I've seen this claim as well, and it's really quite ridiculous. The 
chances that a cheating couple are more likely to be found out by virtue 
of a photo taken by someone who lives in another country (this claim was 
made pre-Facebook and photo-sharing sites ...) than by the gossip mill 
of the milongas in Buenos Aires is rather far-fetched.

But it is unquestionably annoying to go to a Milonga to dance and have 
flashes going off every few seconds. For a milonga with a lot of 
tourists, it is unavoidable since by definition it's a photo-op for the 
tourists.

> Why? The Argentines have behavior codes. One of them is not to dance
> with somebody else?s life partner. Men don?t use cabeceo with a woman
> sitting at a table with another man. If the Argentines think that two
> people are a couple, men won?t ask and women won?t accept an
> invitation.

Yes and no. What you are referring to is the traditional rule that is 
not as rigidly followed. A more contemporary version would go something 
like this:

- If it is a traditional Milonga (e.g., Lo de Celia), a couple coming in 
together and requesting a table together will usually be seated at the 
back along the wall and be out of cabeceo range anyway. A couple who 
want to dance with others will need to request some other seating 
arrangement that leaves them more accessible to cabeceo;

- If a man and a woman are sitting together and "gazing into each others 
eyes," or holding hands, or are obviously very much into each other, 
then regardless of how traditional the Milonga is, it would be 
inappropriate to ask the woman to dance, or try to, and you should 
certainly except a refusal (accompanied by an "are you clueless or 
what?" look) if you try. I would never ask a woman in this situation (in 
any country)--even if they were having an animated conversation, there 
is an implicit intimacy that would be rude to break.

- If a man and a woman are seated together (regardless of whether they 
are a couple), and WISH to dance with others, they really need to signal 
with their body language that they are available (especially the woman). 
This means perhaps seating with the chairs angled slightly away from 
each other, chatting briefly while still looking outwards, etc. The man 
needs to help the woman appear available in this case as well by 
disconnecting from her somewhat so others know it is OK to invite her. 
This won't happen as much in traditional milongas like Lo de Celia 
(other than with non-Argentine couples, where the Argentine men will be 
only too happy to break their own rules to dance with her once they 
figure out that she's available while hypocritically commenting on how 
ungallant the man is by dancing with other women and letting "his woman" 
dance with other men).

There are innumerable variations and ultimately it comes down to 
awareness and common sense. The jealousy factor is high in Argentina and 
neither one of a couple on a "Milonga date" will dance with others 
(close mutual friends excepted) EVEN IF THEY WANT TO, since they know 
there will be hell to pay later!!

Expect these rules to continue to loosen and become more ambiguous with 
each passing year ...

Shahrukh
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[Tango-L] Report from Buenos Aires #6: Social customs

2009-04-20 Thread Michael
Several years ago, somebody wrote on the list that you shouldn´t take
photos or videos at milongas because some people don´t want to be seen
with partners they aren´t married to. I thought this was strange but
then the Argentine culture is different from the American culture.

An Argentine man, who was in the States for three years and spoke good
English (better than my Spanish) told me:
"I have a wife.
I have a lover.
I can´t take on any more women."

I don´t remember how it came up in conversation because I wouldn´t
think of asking. But based on his comment, the previous listing now
makes sense. I just wonder where the man´s wife and lover are while he
is dancing.

Couples who have a private relationship and want to keep it private,
enter the milonga separately and sit separately. They will not dance
two consecutive tandas, which is common in the States. They will dance
with other dancers before they return to each other.

Why? The Argentines have behavior codes. One of them is not to dance
with somebody else´s life partner. Men don´t use cabeceo with a woman
sitting at a table with another man. If the Argentines think that two
people are a couple, men won´t ask and women won´t accept an
invitation.

Cabeceo problem: Two men and a woman
It´s not first come, first served. If the woman isn´t standing when
you are in her  proximity, start wondering if she accepted your
invitation. If you see another man closing in, start wondering if you
came in second place. I´ve been told that men will go to the men´s
room if they came in second. But sometimes, the men´s room is in the
opposite direction.

Cabeceo problem: Two women and a man
I´ve seen both women run back to their tables in embarrassment,
sometimes letting out a shriek which only calls attention to the
miscommunication. The man has to be quick to go after the woman he
wanted to dance because it will look terrible for him. To ask one
woman to dance, get two, and dance with NONE, that´s embarrassing,
though regardless of size of ego, nobody seems to die from it.

I´ll be posting a review of the milongas Í´ve attended and I hope
others do the same. Dropping names of milongas, e.g. Canning,
Sunderland, Almagro really doesn´t help.

Back to line of dance

If I was the only foreigner who was involved in collisions, I wouldn´t
post to the list because it would advertise my poor dancing skills.
When I see Argentines have collisions, well, that´s a different story.

To clarify about my Gricel listing. I commented only on the difficulty
of getting out from my table and meeting the woman on the floor. The
host Thursday night was very pleasant and spoke English when I said
¨Soy Norteamericano. Espanol no esta prima idioma." (I´m a north
American. Spanish isn´t my primary language.)

I´ve gotten some private nasty messages, which I´ve decided to ignore.
(One message came from an American who lives in BA. She used to live
in the Bay Area in California, and has been banned from Tango L.). If
you want to say I´m wrong, then you should publicly post and offer
your personal experience instead of complaining about my dance skills.
I took weekly, private lessons for 8 years and have been dancing for
AT for about 11 years. I wouldn´t think of coming here unless I was
confident of my skills. Dancing at Denver and Atlanta Tango Festivals
was a test. Dancing at small dance floors in New York was a test. I´m
not somebody who has 2 years of experience before coming to BA.

But if you don´t believe me, COME HERE FOR YOURSELF!

Reporting from Buenos Aires
Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
-- 
I'd rather be dancing Argentine Tango

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