Re: [Tango-L] There is only tango...
On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 2:06 PM, David Thorn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From Meredith's postings, and from having spent time understanding Andres' background ( andresamarilla.com ), I assume that Meredith has a fairly good and broad understanding of the entire BsAs tango world. In particular, I would need significantly more evidence than I have seen to believe that the under 40 year-old dancers, and especially the under 30 y.o. dancers, do not dance open / nuevo when a particular Milonga's etiquette permits. And her posts seem to indicate that at some Milongas, etiquette does so permit. The result is that I am very sceptical of such blanket remarks as: Forms of tango where the embrace is opened, often classified as 'tango fantasia' or 'tango nuevo' are reserved for the stage or for exhibitions at some milongas. Please do not quote out of context. Earlier in the same message I stated: In Buenos Aires, there is 'tango de salon', the tango danced in the milongas, and there is tango for the stage or exhibition. There are also practicas (Villa Malcolm, Practica X), where 'nuevo tango' is danced, that latter considered inappropriate for milongas. Also, consider the statements of Andres Amarilla, tango partner and husband of Meredith Klein: http://www.andresamarilla.com/theguide.htm - One of the best things about dancing tango in Buenos Aires is the variety of scenes to choose from. If you go to Club Sunderland on a Saturday night, for instance, you'll see that everyone is dancing in a close embrace and more than 75 couples may be crowded on the floor. Although some younger dancers go to Sunderland, most of the attendees at this milonga are over 50. Both the music and the dancing are firmly grounded in tradition. It would be totally inappropriate to open the embrace here or to lead moves like ganchos or boleos, which require more space. Rather, it's best to relish the opportunity to dance on the same floor with—and in the same style as—these extraordinary dancers, many of whom have been dancing for decades. More and more, however, young dancers in Buenos Aires are interested in dancing in environments where there is space to dance in open embrace and to try new steps. If you walk into Villa Malcolm on a Friday night, for instance, you'll see about 50 couples—mostly in their 20s and 30s—flying around the dance floor. One pair will be trying to make their new colgada-then volcada-straight into two ganchos combination work, while another pair may be incorporating lifts taken straight from contact improvisation into their tango. If you talk to these dancers, some will say they are dancing tango nuevo; others will say that they are simply dancing tango. Since these kinds of movement and exploration are often called nuevo tango, we have adopted that terminology for this guide. In Buenos Aires, nuevo tango is generally danced in practicas, as opposed to milongas (although there are a couple of milongas aimed at the nuevo tango dancers). The practica scene in Buenos Aires has exploded in the last two years. Whereas in 2004, there were only a couple of practicas each week, now you can choose among two or more different practicas on some nights. - In Buenos Aires, nuevo tango dancers (for the most part) respect the norms for the environment they are dancing in. Nuevo tango and tango de salon are danced at different events. There are over 100 advertised milongas per week in Buenos Aires, and some more that are not advertised. Among events called 'milongas', there are apparently 3 'milongas' (La Viruta, La Catedral La Marshall) where the traditional rules of social tango are not in effect. Between these practicas and alternative milongas it is possible to go to Buenos Aires and dance nuevo tango every night of the week and come home and say that you did not see any traditional tango. You may even meet a lot of people from your home country at these events. Ron ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] There is only tango...
Ron wrote: Forms of tango where the embrace is opened, often classified as 'tango fantasia' or 'tango nuevo' are reserved for the stage or for exhibitions at some milongas. I don't understand how ignoring comments from dancers who are intimately familiar with the world of tango in BaAs, c.f. Meredith Klein's comment [Tango-L] Different styles of tango in Buenos Aires (was: Now that I'm here in BA) on Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:18:29 -0800 contributes to our understanding or appreciation of tango. Pushing personal agenda despite evidence to the contrary is extraordinarily puzzling to me. Again, probably the scientist nerd in me. Well, enough reading and posting for the day (3!!! in one day). 'Till later. Cheers, D. David Thorn _ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] There is only tango...
David Thorn wrote: I don't understand how ignoring comments from dancers who are intimately familiar with the world of tango in BaAs, c.f. Meredith Klein's comment [Tango-L] Different styles of tango in Buenos Aires (was: Now that I'm here in BA) on Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:18:29 -0800 contributes to our understanding or appreciation of tango. Pushing personal agenda despite evidence to the contrary is extraordinarily puzzling to me. Again, probably the scientist nerd in me. First a question. As a scientist, are you basing your response solely on Meredith's comments or from your own research in Buenos Aires? Ron was not pushing any personal agenda here. Sounds more like a lack of knowledge of the tango scene there from Meredith, or at best a myopic one. The milongas in Buenos Aires usually do not and did not have open embrace or nuevo tango dancing (too crowded) but that has changed somewhat over the last ten years or so. There are many milongas in Buenos Aires and Meredith's intimately familiar observations are only her limited experience and depend on where she went. When I was there, none of the milongas that I went to had any sort of open style dancing and I went to a different place every night for two weeks. New milongas that cater to the open style of dancing and/or nuevo styles are a recent development and there are places to go for that, but they are not the prevalent style. There are also early or afternoon milongas for the early birds, a fairly new development. The scene is evolving but nuevo is the new kid on the block, compared to traditional tango.I personally am glad there are now places for both nuevo and alternative music, or whatever people want to do, because that means we have a choice. We can go wherever the others don't go, which is where I'll be in three weeks. Cheers, Charles ** It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money amp; Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf000301) ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] There is only tango...
Charles: In the spirit of full disclosure I have to admit that I have never been to BsAs and that _all_ of my knowledge is second hand. Also, since Meredith lives, dances and teaches there, and apparently (based on previous posts) dances in a wide variety of situations, I was placing more weight on her words than on those of mere visitors to BsAs. I was even placing more weight on her words than on those of other BsAs residents whose sole focus appears to be only on the close embrace style and on the Milongas that are exclusively close embrace. From Meredith's postings, and from having spent time understanding Andres' background ( andresamarilla.com ), I assume that Meredith has a fairly good and broad understanding of the entire BsAs tango world. In particular, I would need significantly more evidence than I have seen to believe that the under 40 year-old dancers, and especially the under 30 y.o. dancers, do not dance open / nuevo when a particular Milonga's etiquette permits. And her posts seem to indicate that at some Milongas, etiquette does so permit. The result is that I am very sceptical of such blanket remarks as: Forms of tango where the embrace is opened, often classified as 'tango fantasia' or 'tango nuevo' are reserved for the stage or for exhibitions at some milongas. But I certainly could be (and often am) wrong. Cheers, D. David Thorn _ Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! http://biggestloser.msn.com/ ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] There is only tango...
Ron, I've only danced Tango in Buenos Aires and Hong Kong but we have had many foreign visitors to our milongas here and generally, they've been very good social dancers and have always been very welcome. So, up until a month or so ago I'd have thought, OMG, but wouldn't really have understood what you're talking about. But now we have our very own Tango instructor from the USA who is exactly as you describe. He's only one person so it's not too much trouble and I can still only imagine the nightmare of many dancers like him in our milongas. I'd simply stop going. Keith, HK On Fri Mar 14 23:07 , Tango Society of Central Illinois sent: Outside Argentina these differences are not maintained. In fact, tango reserved for exhibition or the stage is typically the predominant form of tango danced in social gatherings called 'milongas'. It is also quite common to find no one at a 'milonga' in the USA dance any of the variations of 'tango de salon' at an event called a 'milonga'. ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
Re: [Tango-L] There is only tango...
Alex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is no open or close embrace...no traditional or nuevo...no milonguero or salon... There is only tango... Make this your mantra... I found what would appear to be a couple of portenas on YouTube discussing your theory. http://tinyurl.com/2pc7lk They're talking a bit too fast for me to pick up most of it, apologies in advance if it gets too profane. :-) Huck ___ Tango-L mailing list Tango-L@mit.edu http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/tango-l
