Re: Mod: Personal Attack (was: SOT: forums on ritlabs.com)

[Patrick Erler]

On Sun, 16 May 2004 22:30:46 +0100, Marck D Pearlstone  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

do they try to appeal to their prospected customer base by
mimicking the communications behaviour of their rulers some 15
years ago?!
MAU> Look Patrick, I don't know where you are from. But it doesn't
MAU> matter, big mounths and stupids are born everywhere and you are
MAU> one of them.
MAU> Go ahead, change to OE and don't come back to this forum.
MAU> I know moderators will jump on me because of this, I don't care.
:-) gotta be done fella (and while I personally found Patrick's
comments disturbingly ill-informed and biased - almost a troll - I
respect his rights to say how disillusioned he feels).
quite opposite - coming from east germany i'm very well informed about the  
way east-bloc regimes handled critics - by supressing them - and that's  
what i expressed by that (granted, quite provocative) statement..

regards,
PAT
--

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batting the bat

[Patrick Erler]

hi,
as i announced some time ago, i wrote a bit about my quest for finding a  
new email client. here it is: http://techtech.blogspot.com/

it's not meant to offend anyone, just criticism from someone who lost it's  
confidence..

cu,
PAT
--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

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Re: SOT: forums on ritlabs.com

[Patrick Erler]

On Sun, 16 May 2004 11:47:49 +0100, Marck D Pearlstone  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

@16-May-2004, 12:41 +0200 (16-May 11:41 UK time) Patrick Erler [PE]
in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to BATbeta:
PE> did i went blind over the weekend or where is the user forum on
PE> ritlabs.com? got it closed?
Yes. Without warning or reason given.
hah! i don't believe it! this is way, way, WAY over the top!
someone suspected that ritlabs' main target market is the east european  
market. do they try to appeal to their prospected customer base by  
mimicking the communications behaviour of their rulers some 15 years ago?!

as i wrote some time ago, i'm actively evaluating alternatives to the bat  
some time now - and to be honest, i made the decision to switch some days  
ago - but if i hadn't - today would be the day.

i don't want to use a product anymore which quality is visibly degrading  
since years, which announcements are permanently revisited, revoked or  
just not fullfilled and where the developers behave microsoft-like, to put  
it mildly.

the bat didn't get one innovation since ages in a field where innovations  
are badly needed because of the fact that the world of email changed  
radically in the last years.. (and no, the VF concept implemented in the  
bat is nice, but not innovative because it changes the internal filtering  
mechanisms - a thing a "normal" user doesn't care for. innovative is it  
when you implement a change in internals which leads to changes in  
usability for the user. my new mail client does just that.) but they  
charge money for a new version which rather destroyed features (IMAP) then  
implemented it..

ok, the dumbass am i who payed before evaluating alternatives, i won't  
cry.. ;)

mh, i better stop here...
PAT
--
Evaluating M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client:  
http://www.opera.com/m2/


Current beta is 2.11 Beta/5 | 'Using TBBETA' information:
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SOT: forums on ritlabs.com

[Patrick Erler]

hi,
did i went blind over the weekend or where is the user forum on  
ritlabs.com? got it closed?

PAT
--
Evaluating M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client:  
http://www.opera.com/m2/


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Re: memory leaks in thebat! ??

[Patrick Erler]

On Sun, 2 May 2004 17:25:32 +0200, Dierk Haasis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:

Hello Patrick!

On Sunday, May 2, 2004 at 5:06:06 PM you wrote:

a pity, but that's my outlook for the bat on this grey sunday..
That's a nice pun.
huh.. :)) totaly unintended..

but anyway, sorry for singing such melodramatic arias ;)

--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

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Re: Re[2]: memory leaks in thebat! ??

[Patrick Erler]

On Sun, 2 May 2004 10:29:21 -0400, Ethan J. Mings  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I must admit that I don't always follow Ritlabs's marketing
strategies.
Amen.
right. as far as i see, there is no strategy.

I would suggest a much stronger focus on making the product work in a
business environment.  The key is make the product work in large
settings where IT departments are looking for applications that work
extremely well and allow users good flexibility to get the job done.
This is the opportunity that The Bat offers.  Focus on the decision
makers an stop fiddling with mini options.  Money talks, money flows
when results are achieved.
how i see things, ritlabs is a small company, with 49$ for a businness  
license they presumably live very well from the sales they make right now.  
no problem with this - but no perspective for the product too.

i used the bat for years, and although i always had an eye what's going on  
at the market i never found a reason to switch. but right now with the  
scandalous events arround v2 (the "full support of IMAP" story) i actively  
evaluating alternatives. (..for my own use. i let some of my business  
clients evaluate it but, although they grasped the bat is very powerful,  
they never climbed the learning curve - ergonomics never played a part in  
the bat's decisions :( )

as i see it, with the event of gmail we will have big changes in the way  
the "normal" user sees email. as a company, you could be prepared for this  
- but you don't have to if you made enough money until the wave hits the  
market.

a pity, but that's my outlook for the bat on this grey sunday..

PAT

--
Evaluating M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client:  
http://www.opera.com/m2/


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Re: IMAP Question

[Patrick Erler]

hello Stuart!

on Wednesday, April 21, 2004, 1:37:11 AM, you wrote:
SC>   I successfully started getting some rss feeds from the IMAP server,
SC>   then all of a sudden I quit being able to get any new messages. My
SC>   message counter keeps rising indicating that I am getting new
SC>   messages, but nothing shows up. I can still read some of the
SC>   original messages I downloaded, but some of the others I cannot.

SC>   I then decided to try the same account with our favorite email
SC>   client :( "OE" :(, and everything shows up alright.  Anyone have
SC>   any insight into this.
yes, IMAP support of the bat is a f mess - and i think we all
hope the guys at ritlabs spend it's time to finally solve it.. do
you hear, ritlabs?! ;)





PAT
-- 

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 = "AM"



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restore to different account/synchronization

[Patrick Erler]

hello tbbeta!

is there a way to export account a and restore the backup to
account b?

btw, synchronizing looks promising but totally lacks
documentation and the UI is a complete mess. i played around with
it for some minutes and didn't understand one bit of what i did.
how about a wizard interface which explaines what the heck
"create synchronization data file for other system" and all these
cryptic sentences mean?!

regards,


PAT
-- 


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Re[2]: testing IMAP

[Patrick Erler]

hello 9Val!

on Friday, April 2, 2004, 4:00:25 PM, you wrote:

PE>> is there an easy way to export all messages from the POP account
PE>> and import them in the newly created IMAP account (incl. filters
PE>> etc..)

9> Simply drag and drop messages, IMAP filtering will be introduced soon.
no, that's too tiresome, it's a "real life" account with a lot of
messages.. there must be an easier way..

regards,


PAT
-- 

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 = "AM"



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testing IMAP

[Patrick Erler]

hello tbbeta!

i would like to test the IMAP functionality of the bat betas with
an existing messagebase from a POP3 account.

is there an easy way to export all messages from the POP account
and import them in the newly created IMAP account (incl. filters
etc..)


PAT
-- 


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PGP fingerprint: DAC6 2FDA 1ED7 AD55  BD1F 5142 3D5F 72BF

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Re[2]: wrong sent folder

[Patrick Erler]

hello Peter!

on Friday, March 12, 2004, 2:52:58 PM, you wrote:
PP> On Friday, March 12, 2004 at 1:38:02 PM you [PE] wrote (at least in
PP> part):

PP> [Try to change account by only changing the From address]
PM>>> You'll have to change the account too in the new message (right click
PM>>> account at the bottom of the window), not only the From address.
PE>> ah, thanks..

PE>> when i learn something new after years of using a program which i
PE>> found out in other programs on the first day, i wonder if this is
PE>> a good thing (TM)..
PP> All in all this is a good thing, I think. To be honest: most people
PP> trying to change account via "choosing different From address" don't
PP> really care if the message is sent using SMTP server A or B. As long
PP> as From is correct it doesn't matter. So those who care about which
PP> SMTP is used earlier or later learn how to change an active account
PP> (and the corresponding e-mail address) correctly :-)
;) ok, agreed, a good feature for whoever needs it..

but what i don't like (and why i didn't find it earlier) is, the
that i need to use the mouse for changing the sending account -
or did i miss something again? ;)



PAT
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Re[2]: wrong sent folder

[Patrick Erler]

hello Peter!

on Friday, March 12, 2004, 1:10:42 PM, you wrote:
PE>> what annoys me for some time (without being sure if it is bug or
PE>> feature) is this behaviour:

PE>> - the cursor is on the folder pane, account A
PE>> - i press ctrl-n for new message
PE>> - i choose the from address of account B
PE>> - i send the message

PE>> right now, the sent message ends up in the "Sent" folder of
PE>> account A, but IMHO it should end up in the "Sent" folder of
PE>> account B. (yes, MAU, i still store all sent messages in one
PE>> folder ;) )

PM> You'll have to change the account too in the new message (right click
PM> account at the bottom of the window), not only the From address.
ah, thanks..

when i learn something new after years of using a program which i
found out in other programs on the first day, i wonder if this is
a good thing (TM)..


PAT
-- 

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Re[4]: "next unread message" and "options|preferences"

[Patrick Erler]

hello NetVicious!

on Friday, March 5, 2004, 4:27:40 PM, you wrote:
>> no - i just told about my very personal opinion, that such
>> complex preferences dialogues should be made with radio buttons
>> instead of drop-down lists..
N> The problem it's the size of the window.
you can solve that problem in other ways..

N> Combo-boxes   are used to save visual space. The problem should be the
N> software you're using to "read" the windows.
isn't that a bit ignorant. user interfaces are about ergonomics.
ergonomics is about making something usable for humans. because
you can't easily update humans (yet ;) ) you should adjust the
software.

IMHO, the preferences panel, although much better than the old
one, is - a mess.

have a look at options|preferences|system - a mishmash; i mean
what is "system" in a mail reader anyway? ok, setting the message
base path is "system" - but auto-completition? and using system
sounds? and the font in the folder tree?

options|preferences|applications - yes, that belongs to system -
but has it's own page..

and character sets - system..

and system keys? ;))

i think someone at ritlabs should sit down and reorganize the
preferences panel completely.

someone who used opera until 6.x (if i remember correctly) knows,
how terrible a messy preferences panel is - and what a relief
came with opera 7.. i wish i could have that feeling with the
bat.

and a last argument - how often do we read (or ask ;) ) "i want
THAT feature in the bat" - and how often is the answer "go to
"Options|Prferences|Obscure" and there you can toggle it!"?



PAT
-- 

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Re[2]: "next unread message" and "options|preferences"

[Patrick Erler]

hello Thomas!

on Friday, March 5, 2004, 2:18:43 PM, you wrote:
TF> [...]
>> so we have the problem, that my eye avoid's the drop down list
>> and if it finally reads it, the currently set choice doesn't
>> include the word which triggers my brain
TF> [...]

TF> And your point is?

TF> Or do you relly mean you want an option to switch between a drop-down
TF> list (which others may prefer) to radio bottons?
an option for an option :))

no - i just told about my very personal opinion, that such
complex preferences dialogues should be made with radio buttons
instead of drop-down lists..


PAT
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Re[2]: Wishlist - Flag

[Patrick Erler]

hello MAU!

on Monday, March 1, 2004, 11:44:56 PM, you wrote:
>> what i miss is, that the quick search box pops up if it isn't on a
>> toolbar - i just recently discovered the quicksearch bar and hate to
>> waste screen space for it..
M> It does. Just undock it from the toolbar area and then close it. Now,
M> with focus on the message list pane, start typing what you want to
M> search for.
ok, but when you turn off the quicksearch bar with
|view|toolbars|quicksearch the functionality is disabled - which
can be considered a bug IMHO..

regards,

PAT
-- 

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Re[2]: Wishlist - Flag

[Patrick Erler]

hello MaXxX!

on Monday, March 1, 2004, 10:03:55 PM, you wrote:
M>>> Just like message-quickfinding, only with folders.
>> perfection: a hotkey for putting the cursor into the quicksearch
>> box! ("/" is fairly standard (vi ;) )

M> Useless. We can already search using immediately typing the search
M> phrase.

M> This might be modified, however, to allow for full-scale hotkey
M> definition. I would certainly like it, modified the way you say: "/"
M> to enter the search query, and leaving [A-Z] for all kinds of
M> functions.
agreed. what i miss is, that the quick search box pops up if it
isn't on a toolbar - i just recently discovered the quicksearch
bar and hate to waste screen space for it..

btw, how can i jump to the next match?


PAT
-- 

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Re[2]: Wishlist - Flag

[Patrick Erler]

hello MaXxX!

on Monday, March 1, 2004, 9:08:34 PM, you wrote:
>> http://patsplanet.com/thebat/better.jpg
>> cool, eh? ;)

M> Your colour-coding of folders would require enormous amounts of
M> glyphs... unless TB! would incorporate a hue/saturation setting for
M> each folder.
surely, on-the-fly colorizing is the way to go..

M> Meanwhile, it wouldn't hurt if it worked like this:
M> http://maxxx.is-a-geek.org/better-yet.gif
M> Just like message-quickfinding, only with folders.
gorgeous!

perfection: a hotkey for putting the cursor into the quicksearch
box! ("/" is fairly standard (vi ;) )

regards,

PAT
-- 

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Re[3]: Wishlist - Flag

[Patrick Erler]

hello Patrick!

on Monday, March 1, 2004, 8:55:49 PM, you wrote:
PE> ok, it works, i tried color grouping the folder, but didn't move
PE> the selection from the folder away, so didn't see the change in
PE> color - how stupid.. %}

PE> thanks, pat is happy..
ok, almost.. colors should be optionally passed on to
subfolders..



PAT
-- 

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Re[2]: Wishlist - Flag

[Patrick Erler]

hello MAU!

on Monday, March 1, 2004, 8:46:01 PM, you wrote:
M> And I will also insist: If you are using the latest version (you don't
M> say which one you are using and your headers don't show it either) you
M> can now assign Colour Groups to folder (on the folder pane, of course)
M> also (aside of messages). And then I ask you if this may be what you are
M> looking for.
ok, it works, i tried color grouping the folder, but didn't move
the selection from the folder away, so didn't see the change in
color - how stupid.. %}

thanks, pat is happy..

regards,


PAT
-- 

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Re[2]: Glyph Collection ?

[Patrick Erler]

hello Nick!

on Thursday, February 26, 2004, 6:30:37 PM, you wrote:
NA> Thank you... I did eventually get there. I saw many nice looking Glyph
NA> sets, but all the ones I would really like to use... have a slightly
NA> lighter shade of grey for the background, so most all the icons stand out
NA> too much. I've tried fiddling with my Display Properties, but nothing
NA> seems to allow me to lighten my shade of grey for the background that the
NA> current icon set uses.
if you know someone with photoshop or have it yourself, open the
file in there and use Image|Replace Color, pick the grey and
adjust it to you needs with the sliders at the bottom of the
dialogue. save the file as 24bit BMP, Windows (can someone
confirm this?)

regards,



PAT
-- 

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Re[2]: Wish: Virtual folders - a nice way to save, repeat and view M essage Finder searches

[Patrick Erler]

hello MAU!

on Thursday, February 26, 2004, 8:13:31 PM, you wrote:

M> Hello Patrick,

>> and it surely doesn't remember what i read yesterday.. ;)
M> Who cares about what you read yesterday ;-)
this goes: who cares what i /wrote/ yesterday! ;))


PAT
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Re[2]: filter strings import

[Patrick Erler]

hello Graham!

on Wednesday, June 12, 2002, 12:21:07 PM, you wrote:

GF> Hello Patrick

>> is there a way to import filter strings for spam filters from a
>> text files? if not, this would be a very useful feature, we could
>> easily exchange filter rules that way...
GF> Yes.. but not a way that works (for me at least)
GF> ...
GF> Account | Sorting Office | Selective Download | New | Advanced | Load
GF> signal strings from file | browse .. the rest should be obvious.
mh.. but in this case (beside the fact, that it doesn't work
here), the messages won't get downloaded, which is not what i
want. the risk loosing an important mail is to big for me...

i wonder why they didn't implement the same feature in the
"incoming mail" tree of the sorting office..


PAT
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filter strings import

[Patrick Erler]

hello list!

is there a way to import filter strings for spam filters from a
text files? if not, this would be a very useful feature, we could
easily exchange filter rules that way...



PAT
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Re: It's a RC, so how about some interface glitches...

[Patrick Erler]

hello MaXxX!

lets add one more...

on Monday, June 11, 2001, 10:42:53 AM, you wrote:

M> Hello!

M> *  " 'Phonebook entry "  in the CC   (a single leading quote)

M> * the "Log:" label gets detached from the log window when resizing the CC

* editor: "Search and Replace", the button "Replace All..." has
three points, hinting that there will be a dialogue befor the
real action happens, but when pressing it, replacements happen
immediately...

regards,

PAT
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Re[4]: TB MAPI kills Outlook MAPI ???

[Patrick Erler]

hello Rob!

on Wednesday, September 06, 2000, 5:22:06 PM, you wrote:


>> ok, so here's another quick'n dirty.. have a look at the office97 cd
>> (maybe with windows commander) and search for a mapi32.dll

R> i already copied a mapi32.dll from another machine here in the office  ;-)

R> it's 854kb, dated 10/29/1997
R> the TheBat and Netscape versions are 68kb and 67kb ?!?!
now you see how much of the windows codebase is really functional ;))




PAT
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Re[2]: TB MAPI kills Outlook MAPI ???

[Patrick Erler]

hello Rob!

on Wednesday, September 06, 2000, 2:49:25 PM, you wrote:


>> quick and dirty method: search for mapi32.dll on your box and try
>> different versions if you find one

R> i tried, but only found a mapi32_ns.dll (NetScape version).
R> it looks like TB just replaced or modified the existing .dll ; there are some 
R> text-strings in it with 'thebat' ...

R> D474   0040E074  0   The Bat! mailer ready mutex
R> D498   0040E098  0   \Software\RIT\The Bat!
R> D4D8   0040E0D8  0   thebat.exe
ok, so here's another quick'n dirty.. have a look at the office97 cd
(maybe with windows commander) and search for a mapi32.dll - with
windows commander you can search through cabs..

ok, found it, use the one for your OS:

Directory of :\Office\WMS\Win95

.  11-19-96
.. 11-19-96
CMC  DLL 6,624  11-17-96
MAPI DLL   494,688  11-17-96
MAPI32   DLL   725,136  11-17-96
MAPISRVR EXE40,112  11-17-96
MDISP32  EXE98,112  11-17-96
MDISP32  TLB18,270  11-17-96
MMFMIG32 DLL   294,736  11-17-96
MSPST32  DLL   498,288  11-17-96
NEWPROF  EXE40,064  11-17-96
SCANPST  EXE   295,008  11-17-96
SCANPST  HLP 9,785  11-17-96
WMSSET32 DLL48,624  11-17-96
12 file(s)  2,569,447 bytes

Directory of :\Office\WMS\WinNT

.  11-19-96
.. 11-19-96
CMC  DLL 6,624  11-17-96
MAPI DLL   494,688  11-17-96
MAPI32   DLL   730,384  11-17-96
MAPISRVR EXE40,128  11-17-96
MDISP32  EXE96,528  11-17-96
MDISP32  TLB18,274  11-17-96
MSPST32  DLL   505,104  11-17-96
NEWPROF  EXE42,320  11-17-96
SCANPST  EXE   295,488  11-17-96
SCANPST  HLP10,104  11-17-96
WMSSET32 DLL48,624  11-17-96
11 file(s)  2,288,266 bytes





PAT
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