Re: Oops!! Power Failure
Robert C Wittig writes: Long time no see, Anthony! Another happy user of TB, I gather? This is true. I am in the habit of doing a full back-up of TB! daily, to a secondary, data-only hard drive. It worries me a bit that e-mail programs in general seem to make very little provision for selectively archiving or restoring message base content. Eventually you end up with tremendously large mailboxes, and if there's no way to selectively archive and extract stuff and optionally restore it, eventually you're stuck, with or without backups. -- Anthony __ Using The Bat! v3.5.25 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Oops!! Power Failure
Hello Anthony, Thursday, August 25, 2005, 1:36:55 AM, you wrote: AGA Another happy user of TB, I gather? I'm running an ancient version... 1.60q. I had been using Linux Red Hat as my Internet Gateway for quite a while, so I never bothered to upgrade TB!, as it was just lying dormant on my Win2k graphics workstation, but I recently upgraded to SBC-Yahoo DSL for my Internet connection, so I dusted of The Bat!, and put it back in service. It is really my favourite MUA, but I think it was developed in a non-*nix-friendly language, so unfortunately there will probably never be a *nix release for it. As soon as I figure out how to get SBC DSL to play nicely with Red hat, I will probably put TB! back into mothballs, and go back to using Thunderbird, which is the best *nix currently has to offer, but is not in the same class as TB!. AGA It worries me a bit that e-mail programs in general seem to make very AGA little provision for selectively archiving or restoring message base AGA content. Eventually you end up with tremendously large mailboxes, and AGA if there's no way to selectively archive and extract stuff and AGA optionally restore it, eventually you're stuck, with or without AGA backups. I remember way back in the old CompuServe days (early 1990's, there was just such an application called FileCab, IIRC, for archiving Forum messages independent of WinCim 2.6.1. I have been archiving those few emails I need to keep in long term storage as re-named text files, in a regular directory tree, along with their related non-email counterparts, so that, for instance, The keys and other related email docs for my various downloaded applications are stored in the folders with the downloaded binaries, and the emails related to individual customer jobs and purchases are stored in individual folders with my notes and images for those individual customers, and jobs. -- -wittig http://www.robertwittig.com/ . Current version is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Oops!! Power Failure
Hello Robert C Wittig everyone else, on 25-Aug-2005 at 13:22 you (Robert C Wittig) wrote: It is really my favourite MUA, but I think it was developed in a non-*nix-friendly language, so unfortunately there will probably never be a *nix release for it. Time to WINE. ;-) You can run TB on Linux with it (I'm not doing this myself, but there's others). -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) Yes, we have to divide up our time like that, between our politics and our equations. But to me our equations are far more important, for politics are only a matter of present concern. A mathematical equation stands forever. -- Albert Einstein Current version is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Oops!! Power Failure
Hello Spike, On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 you wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] S Each new S laptop I get (every 14 months or so) requires I re-install literally S dozens of programs for which I may have received the activation key 5 S or more years ago. I Copy all those mails into an Important folder. I park them so they can't be accidentally deleted and I also write a memo for each one so that it tells me which version of which software it is and when I bought it. I then just have to scroll through 130 messages in their own folder and it's a cinch as I have the view for that folder set so that the Memo field is permanently on. -- Regards, Richard | The Bat! 3.60.03 Forerunner (Beta) SpamPal | Windows XP (build 2600), version 5. 1 Service Pack 2 | F-Prot AV, Kerio 4.20.B5 and no Plug-ins http://perso.wanadoo.fr/lazyhomes/holiday.html Current version is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Oops!! Power Failure
On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 05:44:47 +0200, Anthony G. Atkielski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Scandisk is not even part of XP. Well, whatever it's called now ... I haven't run it in quite some time. Ah, you simply meant the disk checker. Lets avoid confusion of the innocent people here: - chkdsk.exe (Checkdisk) is the disk checker of Windows NT4 and above (NT5 = Windows 2000, NT5.1 = Windows XP, NT5.2 = Server 2003) - scandisk.exe (Scandisk) is the disk checker of the W9x series (Windows 95, Windows 98 98SE, Windows ME... aka the obsolete 16bit graphical front-ends for the 8bit DOS *gg*) The two are totally different programs. You can't run scandisk.exe on NTFS file systems. -- Greetings/Grüsse Alexander. Current version is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Oops!! Power Failure
Hello Anthony, Tuesday, August 23, 2005, 10:47:36 PM, you wrote: AGA Well, the only real protection against this sort of thing is more AGA frequent backups. Otherwise, obviously you risk losing whatever AGA you've done since the last backup. Long time no see, Anthony! This is true. I am in the habit of doing a full back-up of TB! daily, to a secondary, data-only hard drive. -wittig http://www.robertwittig.com/ . Current version is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Oops!! Power Failure
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 09:57:52 -0500, Spike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Unfortunately I was not at home until AFTER the 4 hours life of the UPS battery, so I could do nothing about the issue after the fact. Suggestions?? Make backups every hour: simple, scheduled script will do. -- Happy flappin'! Corne' (aka Cory, The Batdmin) Current version is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Oops!! Power Failure
Hello tbot/tbudl'ers, I just ran a mail run and I noticed I am also missing TBBETA as well. :-( [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Warmest tropical wishes, Spike /\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign - Against HTML Mail \ / If it aint a webpage it shouldn't be HTML. XSay NO! to bloatmail - ban HTML mail! / \ Ask Spikey, he hates everything (HTML), especially the new AOL implementation! -- Composed sent using TheBat! v2.12.00, hamstrung by Windows XP 5.1, Build 2600 Service Pack 2 on a Toshiba Satellite P25-S5261 / P4-3.2GHz with 2GB RAM / 200GB HDD (100GB X2) -- Current version is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Oops!! Power Failure
On Tuesday, August 23, 2005, 16:57:52, Spike wrote: TB! told me the message bases were corrupted. The folder item 'maintenance' was greyed out, and TB! said to run chkdsk. Well, this is now called SCANDISK under Win-XP (hint, developers!). No, it isn't. NT-based Windows never included scandisk, they contain chkdsk.exe that works in console (and can run in the bootup environment, before the window station is started up). FYI, the message about chkdsk wasn't even from The Bat, but from Windows itself - it's an usual message when Windows decides there's something wrong with the file you're trying to gain access to. I ran SCANDISK and it ZEROED OUT the message bases for these two lists, plus about 5 others! Scandisk might have been the culprit - it's not a tool meant for NT/2k/XP (though I have a hard time believing it ran at all - unless your disks use FAT32). Zeroing out the files means that the errors were unrecoverable, though I haven't seen this happen on NTFS yet - but it's usual on FAT/FAT32, especially if a file was opened while the computer crashed. Anyway, to prevent this from happening in the future, convert your drives to NTFS. Not only your data will be safer, Windows will also start up faster. To do this, go to Start-Run and run CONVERT C: /FS:NTFS /X You'll have to reboot, and on startup, Windows will convert your drive to NTFS. This can take a while, depending on the number of files on your disk. -- Jernej Simoncic http://deepthought.ena.si/ Actually, it only SEEMS as though you mustn't be deceived by appearances. -- The Obvious Law Current version is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Oops!! Power Failure
Spike @ 2005-8-23 9:57:52 AM Oops!! Power Failure mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Suggestions?? You computer should be configured in such a way that when the UPS reports that it has x percent left, the computer shuts itself down. Now, since you have a laptop, things are slightly different. Also, nightly backups are nice. However, they are much easier to do on an always-on desktop that on a laptop that may be on or off. I normally get around to backing my laptop up every other day. I have made it part of my nightly routine: start backup, visit bathroom, other stuff..., see backup is finished, turn computer off. Hope these suggestions help in the future. Also, if you need it, I have TBUDL going back to 2003-Sept-6. -- Chris Quoting when replying to this message is good for you and me. Using The Bat! v3.51.10 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2. Accessing a POP3 mailbox. At a tire shop in Milwaukee: Invite us to your next blowout. pgpK82YD7EDNF.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Oops!! Power Failure
Hello Spike, On Tuesday, August 23, 2005, you wrote: S Suggestions?? Assuming that your bases were corrupted because Windows had not written its cached image of your files to disk when the PC died, you could perhaps disable write caching on the external drive? It's under the disk's properties, then Hardware-Properties-Policies. This will ensure that writes are committed immediately to disk. It's supposed to reduce performance, but I've never noticed any impact when I use it on my second *data* drive. -- Nick Current version is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Oops!! Power Failure
On Tuesday, August 23, 2005, 18:30:35, Nick Dutton wrote: Assuming that your bases were corrupted because Windows had not written its cached image of your files to disk when the PC died, you could perhaps disable write caching on the external drive? It's under the disk's properties, then Hardware-Properties-Policies. Write caching is automatically disabled for USB hard drives, unless you specifically enable it in the disk properties in Device manager. Problem is that these USB drives usually use FAT32 filesystem, which will almost certainly zero out files that were opened at the time of power loss. -- Jernej Simoncic http://deepthought.ena.si/ Celibacy is not hereditary. -- First Law of Socio-Genetics Current version is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Oops!! Power Failure
Hello Jernej, On Tuesday, August 23, 2005, you wrote: Assuming that your bases were corrupted because Windows had not written its cached image of your files to disk when the PC died, you could perhaps disable write caching on the external drive? It's under the disk's properties, then Hardware-Properties-Policies. JS Write caching is automatically disabled for USB hard drives, unless you JS specifically enable it in the disk properties in Device manager. Problem is JS that these USB drives usually use FAT32 filesystem, which will almost JS certainly zero out files that were opened at the time of power loss. Ooops, that'll teach me to mix it with the experts! -- Nick Current version is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Oops!! Power Failure
On 8/23/05, Spike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Suggestions?? In addition to what Chris suggested (have computer turn itself off if there's less than, say, 20% left on your UPS), backup more often (ok, also has been suggested) and: leave your mail on the server for a week or so after retrieval. TB has an option to do just that. In case you computer breaks just before the backup you can then re-retrieve all the messages since the last backup. Heck, you could even schedule daily backups in TB! The NTFS suggestion is also good. Journaling file systems rule. Best, Roman -- If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve. Current version is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Oops!! Power Failure
Hello Chris, You computer should be configured in such a way that when the UPS reports that it has x percent left, the computer shuts itself down. Now, since you have a laptop, things are slightly different. As my message bases total over 45GB at present, shutting down TB! (all accounts and folders set to compress!) takes just over 6 hours. Not an option, without having something to SHUT DOWN TB! from within Task Manager. This is what I do whenever I need to shut down, other than when I do my weekly shut-down and compress on the weekend. Also, nightly backups are nice. However, they are much easier to do on an always-on desktop that on a laptop that may be on or off. I normally get around to backing my laptop up every other day. I have made it part of my nightly routine: start backup, visit bathroom, other stuff..., see backup is finished, turn computer off. I do weeklies, as these are 100GB drives. Hope these suggestions help in the future. Also, if you need it, I have TBUDL going back to 2003-Sept-6. If there is a way to get it, I'd surely like to reload this, and TBBETA and/or TBOT if I can get it. I will restore the backups I have and see what I am missing. Perhaps some kind soul may have the area where the gap exists and could send me a zipped message base file containing only the missing posts. I have done this in the past by creating a folder and copying only the messages requested to that folder, then zipping it up and sending it to the recipient. The extra problem is I am still running V2.12. -- Warmest tropical wishes, Spike Quote for this point on the timeline: The secret of my influence has always been that it remained secret. /\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign - Against HTML Mail \ / If it aint a webpage it shouldn't be HTML. XSay NO! to bloatmail - ban HTML mail! / \ Ask Spikey, he hates everything (HTML), especially the new AOL implementation! -- Composed sent using TheBat! v2.12.00, hamstrung by Windows XP 5.1, Build 2600 Service Pack 2 on a Toshiba Satellite P25-S5261 / P4-3.2GHz with 2GB RAM / 200GB HDD (100GB X2) -- Current version is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Oops!! Power Failure
On 8/23/05, Spike [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As my message bases total over 45GB at present, shutting down TB! (all accounts and folders set to compress!) takes just over 6 hours. Holy cr*p! Have you considered deleting some e-mails or storing attachments in separate directories? How many messages is that? scratching his head, Roman Current version is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Oops!! Power Failure
Spike writes: I have experienced a great loss due to an island-wide power failure that lasted for just over 5 hours yesterday. I had the complete TBOT and TBUDL lists going back about 4 years. The power failure lasted longer than my UPS's and I LOST the entire mail folders for these lists. I've had TB crash on occasion and I've brutally aborted it on occasion as well, but I've never experienced corruption of any of the mail folders. I suppose it might be possible if TB stopped or crashed at some crucial instant while it was updating the folders, but fortunately that doesn't seem to happen very often. TB! told me the message bases were corrupted. The folder item 'maintenance' was greyed out, and TB! said to run chkdsk. Just from a power failure? I ran SCANDISK and it ZEROED OUT the message bases for these two lists, plus about 5 others! The implication is that some of the files used by TB were seriously corrupted. Do you run FAT or NTFS? FAT is very, very bad; you should always run NTFS under XP. I have a backup done about a week ago, but I have lost all the traffic since that date. I guess my question is - Is there any other better procedure I SHOULD have followed in this case? More frequent backups, and if you are running a FAT file system, you should move to NTFS instead, which is _far_ more resistant to file-system corruption. It's easy to hash a FAT partition so badly that you lose practically everything, but NTFS is very difficult to corrupt. In this case, the laptop USB port does not provide sufficient current to run the external drive. I run the laptop AND the external drive with associated power brick on a 550VA UPS, which lasts about 4 hours (worst case). The power failure lasted just over 5 hours (THREE lightning strikes in the main generator house within 30 seconds!). The laptop continued to run for the duration (on internal battery) but the external drive did NOT. Mail runs continued to try to run during the time of the outage of the external drive, corrupting the message bases. Unfortunately I was not at home until AFTER the 4 hours life of the UPS battery, so I could do nothing about the issue after the fact. The UPS must have cut power at exactly the wrong instant if TB managed to corrupt the databases. I suppose you might have write-into cache enabled somewhere but I'm not sure how or if XP implements this. -- Anthony __ Using The Bat! v3.5.25 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Oops!! Power Failure
Jernej Simoncic writes: Scandisk might have been the culprit - it's not a tool meant for NT/2k/XP (though I have a hard time believing it ran at all - unless your disks use FAT32). Scandisk will run on XP, although it requires exclusive access to the device, so if you run it, XP actually schedules it to run the next time you boot, before the system actually comes up. It takes forever to run, too. Converting to NTFS is a very good idea, in any case. -- Anthony __ Using The Bat! v3.5.25 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Oops!! Power Failure
Hello Anthony G. Atkielski everyone else, on 23-Aug-2005 at 21:39 you (Anthony G. Atkielski) wrote: Scandisk will run on XP Scandisk is not even part of XP. although it requires exclusive access to the device So does chkdsk if the partition is locked - like the boot partition. -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) It's a pity that taxpayers don't read science fiction. They might know about the age they're buying. -- Frederick Pohl Current version is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Oops!! Power Failure
On Tuesday, August 23, 2005, at 01:35 PM, Spike wrote: As my message bases total over 45GB at present, shutting down TB! (all accounts and folders set to compress!) takes just over 6 hours. Not an option, without having something to SHUT DOWN TB! from within Task Manager. This is what I do whenever I need to shut down, other than when I do my weekly shut-down and compress on the weekend. Wow! Why does TB! take so long to shut down. Do you run compress on exit or other similar maintenance operations on exiting TB!? Additionally, wouldn't archiving prevent some of your misery? I know the benefits of keep the messages together, but you seem to be reaching a point of greatly diminishing returns where your message bases are becoming large, unwieldy and pushing hardware and OS integrity to their limits. If you lose data in these situations, it's not surprising and very frequent backups should be the norm. Archiving would greatly assist with more frequent backing up. -- -= Curtis=- Using TB! v3.60.02 Forerunner (Beta) System Specs: http://specs.aimlink.name =-=-= ...Remember, Subaru spelled backwards is U-R-A-BUS. Current version is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Oops!! Power Failure
Spike @ 2005-8-23 1:35:05 PM Oops!! Power Failure mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If there is a way to get it, I'd surely like to reload this, and TBBETA and/or TBOT if I can get it. I will restore the backups I have and see what I am missing. Perhaps some kind soul may have the area where the gap exists and could send me a zipped message base file containing only the missing posts. I'm sure that if you post the missing dates, someone will send you the messages. I have done this in the past by creating a folder and copying only the messages requested to that folder, then zipping it up and sending it to the recipient. The extra problem is I am still running V2.12. I don't think that the message base format has changed since about version 1.6. If it has, MBX should work. -- Chris Quoting when replying to this message is good for you and me. Using The Bat! v3.51.10 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2. Accessing a POP3 mailbox. Today's Oxymoron: Airline Food pgpFbd5sJucq7.pgp Description: PGP signature Current version is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Oops!! Power Failure
Alexander S. Kunz writes: Scandisk is not even part of XP. Well, whatever it's called now ... I haven't run it in quite some time. -- Anthony __ Using The Bat! v3.5.25 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
Re: Oops!! Power Failure
Spike writes: I backup the entire 100GB drive weekly, but the failure happened a few hours BEFORE the scheduled Sunday weekly backup. :-( Well, the only real protection against this sort of thing is more frequent backups. Otherwise, obviously you risk losing whatever you've done since the last backup. -- Anthony __ Using The Bat! v3.5.25 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2 Current version is 3.51.10 | 'Using TBUDL' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html
