Re: Why is thebat.exe from tb142f.zip so big?
OS Though, even when I'm offering software for download... Given the OS costs of internet connections in germany, most customers would OS certainly be grateful if downloads are as small as possible. Exactly, and presumably they have to use the same connection to download their email. Given that email attachments can be up to 50% and often as much as 35% bigger than the file itself as "raw binary", you'll save your customers money by giving them the URL to the shiny new updates. -tom! -- Hopin' this said *something* useful, [EMAIL PROTECTED] out. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Why is thebat.exe from tb142f.zip so big?
On Sat, 13 May 2000 14:26:09 +0200, Jast wrote: While eMail isn't quite the right protocol for file distribution, it has it's merits too. I see the analogy here to getting a magazine in your mailbox per subscription or having to run to the next store to buy it: former is just more comfortable. You won't have to do more than check mail if you want the files on your harddisk. Given, clicking a link isn't exactly hard work. But it's also the way it works in our head; receiving is easier than getting ;-) A download URL for application distribution is just as convenient. A small magazine is fine by e-mail. Are you saying you'd prefer if Ritlabs e-mailed the new betas to you? -- Allie Martin Using TB! v1.42f on Win2k Pro PGP Key: http://www.geocities.com/acmartin.geo/Pubkey.txt Tag: "Reduce Carbon Dioxide emmissions - STOP Breathing " -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Why is thebat.exe from tb142f.zip so big?
Morning Allie Martin, It was interesting that a few days later they began using a link to a restricted download site and celebrated not having to use e-mail to distribute the registered version of their program. Far more user friendly. I can now download it when I wish to and /if/ I wish to. While eMail isn't quite the right protocol for file distribution, it has it's merits too. I see the analogy here to getting a magazine in your mailbox per subscription or having to run to the next store to buy it: former is just more comfortable. You won't have to do more than check mail if you want the files on your harddisk. Given, clicking a link isn't exactly hard work. But it's also the way it works in our head; receiving is easier than getting ;-) -- .. Jast ... mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : using TB 1.42f : with AMD K6-2, 64MB RAM :. on Windows 98 4.10 A -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Why is thebat.exe from tb142f.zip so big?
On Sat, May 13, 2000 at 12:04:09PM +0200, Oliver Sturm wrote: No. Then they'd have to wait for another day to get their diskette and fiddle around with it, which they can't. Alternatively, they'd have to go learn how to use other internet services, which they won't. Or you could put a link in the message and be done with it. We've gone over this tons of times, check the archives. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Why is thebat.exe from tb142f.zip so big?
Hello! Saturday, May 13, 2000, 17:03, Allie Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: AM A download URL for application distribution is just as convenient. AM A small magazine is fine by e-mail. Are you saying you'd prefer if Ritlabs AM e-mailed the new betas to you? Fully agreed with Allie Martin here I should add my own thoughts about the $Subj. There are so many security publications on the Net and also in offline world saying something similar to "never open attachments from untrusted sources; never open attachments even if you see the known From: field in e-mail message - first you should check the attached file with the latest version of your antivirus" so a particular user should think twice or more before opening an attachments. However it's not so simple - and we all were able to see what can happen if this very basic security guideline was ignored by _that_ pesky users :-) - remember ILoveYou worm, yes? So if we are talking about "binaries in e-mail - to send or not to send, this is question" please don't forget about some psychological issues here. This is IMHO the first factor. Someone can point me to a program like PGP, GNU PG etc. Yes, this is a perfect solution but in some posting back there was an excellent phrase by Oliver Sturm - "Alternatively, they'd have to go learn how to use other internet services, which they won't". The key word is -. This is a second factor - a man's lazyness. I couldn't remember a (known) software vendor which distributes a new versions of its products, patches etc. by e-mail. Usually they send a message to a registered users providing some information about the new releases and possibly include a URL to a (secured) download site. However you *can* receive a binary code from this vendors *but* the most applicable case for it will be if you are communicating with tecnhical support about some issue specific to your system. This is a 3rd factor - an industrial practice. -- Best regards, Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris) http://www.andris.msk.ru/ -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Why is thebat.exe from tb142f.zip so big?
On Sat, 13 May 2000 12:04:09 +0200, Oliver Sturm wrote: Not sending them via mail would be even more user friendly. No. Then they'd have to wait for another day to get their diskette and fiddle around with it, which they can't. Alternatively, they'd have to go learn how to use other internet services, which they won't. Netcaptor sent me their registered software via e-mail once. It ended up being deleted from the server because of my settings. It was interesting that a few days later they began using a link to a restricted download site and celebrated not having to use e-mail to distribute the registered version of their program. Far more user friendly. I can now download it when I wish to and /if/ I wish to. -- Allie Martin Using TB! v1.42f on Win2k Pro PGP Key: http://www.geocities.com/acmartin.geo/Pubkey.txt Tag: "Remember, UNIX spelled backwards is XINU. " -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Why is thebat.exe from tb142f.zip so big?
On Sat, 13 May 2000 14:25:36 +0200, Oliver Sturm wrote: Netcaptor sent me their registered software via e-mail once. It ended up being deleted from the server because of my settings. It was interesting that a few days later they began using a link to a restricted download site and celebrated not having to use e-mail to distribute the registered version of their program. Far more user friendly. I can now download it when I wish to and /if/ I wish to. Yes, but I'm talking about customers whom I write programs for. It's their software alone (not of-the-shelf software) and they also pay for getting round-the-clock one-minute-response-time support ;) Though, even when I'm offering software for download... Given the costs of internet connections in germany, most customers would certainly be grateful if downloads are as small as possible. Thanks but no thanks. I find it annoying that I have to download a large message because of an attachment. Giving a URL link to the software is just as easy for the receiver. They can save the download to a folder as they do with their attachment when they get it. The advantage of a download URL is that of control. The recipient may do the download whenever they wish and not have their e-mail flow disturbed by a large attachment. Most e-mail applications do not have an e-mail dispatcher as TB!'s either. My argument has nothing to do with the size of software executables. It has to do with the principle. Sending via e-mail forces the recipient to download it at a particular time, without a mail dispatcher. Giving a URL is more palatable and gives the recipient better control over the download in terms of when and how he wishes to download it. I prefer to use Getright for downloading for instance. It can resume downloads among other things. Can you resume an e-mail attachment download if your connection drops? -- Allie Martin Using TB! v1.42f on Win2k Pro PGP Key: http://www.geocities.com/acmartin.geo/Pubkey.txt Tag: "How many of you believe in telekinesis? Raise MY hand! " -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Why is thebat.exe from tb142f.zip so big?
Hi Mike, On Fri, 12 May 2000 09:47:04 -0500, you wrote: MH I downloaded tb142f.zip, and found that it only contains MH thebat.exe MH This is a 3,179 KB file, in contrast to the 1,679 KB file of TB! MH 1.42c executable. I thought that it must be an install program, That's is because ritlabs sometimes compress that file and sometimes not :-) I am talking about an exe compression, that means if you start the exe the program decompress in memory and execute. MH Why the increased executable size? Because this one is uncompressed. cu, Dirk -- Using The Bat! 1.42f (S/N 12A1F196 / Educational) under Windows 95 4.0 Build B -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Why is thebat.exe from tb142f.zip so big?
Morning Mike, This is a 3,179 KB file, in contrast to the 1,679 KB file of TB! 1.42c executable. I thought that it must be an install program, full of all the other program files (help files etc), but that is not the case. Don't worry, it contains all you need for upgrading the program to 1.42f. It looks like you just happened to get an uncompressed version, which was not packed with ASPack. -- .. Jast ... mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] : using TB 1.42f : with AMD K6-2, 64MB RAM :. on Windows 98 4.10 A -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Why is thebat.exe from tb142f.zip so big?
Hello The Bat! users, Mike Harlos wrote on 5/12/2000, 4:47 PM MH Hi, MH I downloaded tb142f.zip, and found that it only contains MH thebat.exe MH This is a 3,179 KB file, in contrast to the 1,679 KB file of TB! MH 1.42c executable. If you liked the smaller executable, download UPX from http://upx.tsx.org ! It's a freeware, open source, executable compressor. (And also can be used for commercial purposes) My thebat.exe is now only takes up 1073 KB... -- Cheers, SyP The early bird gets the worm. If you want something else for breakfast, get up later. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Why is thebat.exe from tb142f.zip so big?
Friday, May 12, 2000, 10:28:44 AM, SyP wrote: MH This is a 3,179 KB file, in contrast to the 1,679 KB file of TB! MH 1.42c executable. If you liked the smaller executable, download UPX from http://upx.tsx.org ! It's a freeware, open source, executable compressor. (And also can be used for commercial purposes) My thebat.exe is now only takes up 1073 KB... On disk. It is still 3.1Mb in memory. The run-time compressors were cool in the day when the 240Mb HD was "large". In these days of 12Gb drives at Best Buy for $89 the difference between 1mb and 3mb is pittance. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Why is thebat.exe from tb142f.zip so big?
Friday, May 12, 2000, 10:57:31 AM, SyP wrote: OK, call me petty-minded if you like, but I don't like wasting MBs if I can avoid it... It's a matter of personal tastes, you know. OK, call me petty-minded if you like, but I don't like wasting CPU cycles if I can avoid it... It's a matter of personal tastes, you know. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Why is thebat.exe from tb142f.zip so big?
OK, call me petty-minded if you like, but I don't like wasting MBs if I can avoid it... It's a matter of personal tastes, you know. SL OK, call me petty-minded if you like, but I don't like wasting CPU cycles SL if I can avoid it... It's a matter of personal tastes, you know. I'd rather waste CPU cycles decompressing than wait the extra time it takes to load (given the orders of magnitude of speed difference between reading off of disk versus out of L2 cache), but call me ridiculous. Processor sitting in an idle loop isn't any different (in terms wear and tear) than it is decompressing data, the only difference is the time it takes to do it. -tom! -- Hopin' this said *something* useful, [EMAIL PROTECTED] out. -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Why is thebat.exe from tb142f.zip so big?
Friday, May 12, 2000, 11:38:45 AM, Oliver wrote: what tiny program you are trying to write before sending them to customers via mail. That's one version of user friendliness. Not sending them via mail would be even more user friendly. -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Why is thebat.exe from tb142f.zip so big?
Friday, May 12, 2000, 1:41:25 PM, Tom wrote: I'd rather waste CPU cycles decompressing than wait the extra time it takes to load (given the orders of magnitude of speed difference between reading off of disk versus out of L2 cache) Being, what, exactly? A magnitude of difference, sure. We're talking the difference between ms and ns. In fact, 1ms difference. IE, you, as a human, cannot tell the difference either way. but call me ridiculous. Processor sitting in an idle loop isn't any different (in terms wear and tear) than it is decompressing data, the only difference is the time it takes to do it. Your processor is sitting in an idle loop? *Steve look at his NT desktop. Winamp, ICQ, 3 TB! windows on this desktop, Opera on another, Exceed with 3-4 xterms on a third desktop, rc5 cracking in the background.* *Steve thinks to his home 98 machine with more than that open all the time.* Idle loop? What is that? -- Steve C. Lamb | I'm your priest, I'm your shrink, I'm your ICQ: 5107343 | main connection to the switchboard of souls. ---+- -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Why is thebat.exe from tb142f.zip so big?
Hello! Friday, May 12, 2000, 21:28, SyP [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MH I downloaded tb142f.zip, and found that it only contains MH thebat.exe MH This is a 3,179 KB file, in contrast to the 1,679 KB file of TB! MH 1.42c executable. S If you liked the smaller executable, download UPX from http://upx.tsx.org ! S It's a freeware, open source, executable compressor. S (And also can be used for commercial purposes) Of course _you_ can save some amount of *your* disk space but you're doing such a things as compressing executables at your own risk. Some software developers (I don't mind TB! developers here) are continue using direct access to their own executables for some well-known and also private :-) and hard to explain purposes. Moreover, the compression technique can lead to some problems with antivirus and other protective software. As said by Steve Lamb in this thread, compressing executables doesn't actually compress them in memory. IMHO this compression is a truly waste of time and money. Personally I don't ever want to investigate application crashes and "gluks" (a Russian neologism) invoked by decompressors etc. -- Best regards, Andrey G. Sergeev (AKA Andris) http://www.andris.msk.ru/ -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
Re: Why is thebat.exe from tb142f.zip so big?
Hello Curt, On Friday, May 12, 2000 at 18:54:22 GMT -0400 (which was 3:54 PM where I live) [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed: Reply begun at: Friday, May 12, 2000 6:51:37 PM EDT I've noticed a "strangeness" with recent releases (perhaps since 1.39) on my machine which I can't duplicate on any other machine here. After making a 'net connection, if I launch TheBat! immediately, it will eventually hang, then hard hang my Win95 machine (256megs, PentiumII/300). However, if I launch a browser first, then TheBat! loads and runs fine. I'm very puzzled! That sounds like what was happening to many of us with the Betas with compressed executables. It varied in degree from person to person, but generally what happened was that if any program was launched at the same time as TB, then TB would hang the system. This seemed to have been fixed by simply decompressing the executable, but I see you're using the 1.42f release. One thing to try is use the /NOLOGO switch in the command line of your TB shortcut. That will speed up the loading to TB and will lower the chance of another program loading at the same time. This may help. The other thing to do for now is notice if your DUN is still running when you launch TB. Is your browser still loading when you launch TB? If not, try launching TB and your browser as quickly in succession as possible. If your system crashes, it won't be nice, but at least you know that you have a known issue. Sorry this couldn't be better news. -- Thanks for writing, Januk Aggarwal [EMAIL PROTECTED] Using The Bat! 1.42 under Windows 98 4.10 Build A Could someone ever get addicted to counseling? If so, how would you treat them? -- -- View the TBUDL archive at http://tbudl.thebat.dutaint.com To send a message to the list moderation team double click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe from TBUDL, double click here and send the message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You are subscribed as : archive@jab.org
