Re[2]: dealing with digests

[Gary Mort]

Hello Karin,

Monday, September 25, 2000, 3:22:09 PM, you wrote:

KS> On 25-09-2000 at 18:58, Gary Mort kindly wrote:

>> Secondly: Does anyone know of a good digest viewer?  What I would like
>> to  be  able  to do is copy the digest and send it to some application
>> that  will  break it up into seperate messages for me,

KS>  In that case, what is the use of receiving it as
KS> digest in the first place?

Because 9 times out of 10 I want the digest as a whole(most of its
fluff that I find irrelevant) Occassionally, I want to break it apart
if it has some messages that are actually on topic and usefull to me.

I can cut and paste, but as a programmer I feel the computer should do
it  for  me.   As a lazy programmer, I want someone else to figure out
how. :-)

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Re[2]: dealing with digests

[Gary Mort]

Hello Januk,

Monday, September 25, 2000, 8:30:28 PM, you wrote:

JA> TB has a great MIME digest viewer.

This  sounds  really  cool!   Now  I  just  need  to  find  a list I'm
interested in that supports MIME digests to play with this.  Egroups doesn't seem to.

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Re: dealing with digests - yet another question

[JMReichow]

Marck D. Pearlstone scripsit:

>  3) dealing with digests - yet another question
...
>> This is the very same problem that will occur with digests.  What you'd
>> have to do JM, is to manually copy and paste the desired text block in
>> your reply message. Paste using the 'paste as quote' option.
> 
> While  this  works  it  is  not  necessary as long as you don't mark a
> signature break.

I   didn't   know  this  ...controversial  editor  supported  _curved_
marking... ;-)

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Re: dealing with digests - yet another question

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi A,

On 26 September 2000 at 02:28:49 GMT -0500 (which was 08:28 where I
live) A . Curtis Martin wrote and made these points on the subject
of "dealing with digests - yet another question":

ACM> F4 didn't allow me to select anything beyond that point either.
ACM> What I had to do was to manually copy and paste the text.

F4  does  quote  selected  text below the signature break *unless* you
select the break itself.

ACM> This is the very same problem that will occur with digests.  What you'd
ACM> have to do JM, is to manually copy and paste the desired text block in
ACM> your reply message. Paste using the 'paste as quote' option.

While  this  works  it  is  not  necessary as long as you don't mark a
signature break.

- --
Cheers,
.\\arck
 
[Marck D. Pearlstone | Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA  ]
[ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com  ]
[ PGP Key: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=GET%20MARCKKEY> ]

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Re: dealing with digests - yet another question

[JMReichow]

  So I'll continue manually cutting and pasting from my non-MIME
digests.  That's alright... - unless, of course, someone comes up with
a filtering (or RegEx) rule for taking out the delimiters.

(Or  is  that  nonsense,  from a technical point of vies? See, I don't
understand  yet  on  which  _level_ those delimiters actually work, as
they  seem  to  be a pre-set and unalterable (?) trigger for something
the %QUOTES macro to stop quoting.)

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Re: dealing with digests

[Januk Aggarwal]

Hello Allie,


On  Tuesday, September 26, 2000  at  02:12:20 GMT -0500 (which was 12:12 AM
where I live) witnesses say A . Curtis Martin typed:

JA>> The advantages of MIME digests are numerous, but the biggest is that
JA>> you reply to the individual message, not to the digest.

> Additionally, since it displays the digest messages in a virtual folder,
> you may thread the messages etc. :-) It's as if you downloaded them
> separately.

Plus you can copy the individual messages into your folder structure
quite easily.  As I said, the advantages are quite numerous, but Marck
and Syafril have mentioned that setting up the digests in this way is
a non-trivial task.  So we'll keep our fingers crossed.  :)
 


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Re: dealing with digests - yet another question

[JMReichow]

Marck  D. Pearlstone kindly responded:

J>> ... I must confirm replying by Select All and F4 does not do the
J>> trick: it does _not_ override the signature delimiters.

> No  ... and It shouldn't. Why would you want to anyway? A reply should
> always  be  to a single message. A message ends at the signature. IMHO
> It's  not  really  the done thing to reply to multiple messages from a
> digest in a single reply.

I am willing to let the horse die early, but not before stating that I
am on certain lists where I often need to quote from multiple messages
in  one  reply, mainly because of the development of threads: messages
from  early  in  the  discussion (and earlier on the same day - _some_
lists  do only produce one digest per day... unlike this one) may have
been  cut  down  to  fragments in various quotings and requotings at a
later  stage,  and the easiest way for me to make my references to the
parts snipped out meanwhile would be to quote the daily digest in full
length  (and the included messages in their chronological order, which
is  helpful)  and  then  cut out everything I don't need.

As  I  haven't  come  across the signature delimiters problem on those
other  lists  so  far,  I  only  became  aware of the fact this may be
unusual  (but nevertheless most practical to me, in dealing with those
lists).  _But_  this  is just my explanation to your rhetoric question
above;  it's  obvious I could do pretty much of the same by individual
selecting  and  pasting from the digests, O.K. - I admit the signature
delimiter  may  have more merits and its little disadvantage for me is
not  that important... especially since I've got _aware_ of what it is
and what it does. Thanks, anyway.
--
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 Marc

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Re: dealing with digests - yet another question

[A . Curtis Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, 25 Sep 2000 20:20:09 -0700, Januk Aggarwal wrote:


JA> All that said, I should reiterate, I agree that this is not a big
JA> bug. It is simply a nuisance item. And not even a big one at that.

I have to interject here that it can indeed be a nuisance at times. Just
yesterday while helping Jan with figuring out the %ISSIGNATURE macro, he
posted a message containing two sample template signatures. The first
contained a signature delimiter. Of course when I hit reply, the quoted
text ended at the point of the signature delimiter in the sample
template. F4 didn't allow me to select anything beyond that point
either. What I had to do was to manually copy and paste the text.

This is the very same problem that will occur with digests.  What you'd
have to do JM, is to manually copy and paste the desired text block in
your reply message. Paste using the 'paste as quote' option.

- --
A. Curtis Martin..
Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA  |  PGP Key ID: 0xEE079937
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-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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Comment: Digitally signed for message and sender verification.

iQA/AwUBOdBQMfAXeSHuB5k3EQKwuwCglC9DH7f/9tRxvUGJJeFqyrGHY+cAoIwS
X/T7PJgCgLeiM6lV21m3R5R5
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Re: dealing with digests

[A . Curtis Martin]

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On Mon, 25 Sep 2000 17:30:28 -0700, Januk Aggarwal wrote:

JA> TB has a great MIME digest viewer.  Hey Syafril, I seem to remember a
JA> discussion about MIME digests way back.  Does your server support that
JA> type of digest?  If so, now that TB supports MIME digests (quite
JA> nicely too), perhaps that would be a better format?

JA> The advantages of MIME digests are numerous, but the biggest is that
JA> you reply to the individual message, not to the digest.

Additionally, since it displays the digest messages in a virtual folder,
you may thread the messages etc. :-) It's as if you downloaded them
separately.

- --
A. Curtis Martin..
Moderator TBUDL/TBBETA  |  PGP Key ID: 0xEE079937
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KkejR4hdNEGX/9cS96wgUgfw
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Re: dealing with digests

[Syafril Hermansyah]

Hello Januk Aggarwal,

Responding  to  your  article  on Mon, 25 Sep 2000 at 17:30:28 GMT -0700
(which was 26/09/2000 7:30 GMT +0700 my Local Time) :

>> Secondly: Does anyone know of a good digest viewer?

JA> TB has a great MIME digest viewer. Hey Syafril, I seem to remember a
JA> discussion  about  MIME  digests  way back. Does your server support
JA> that type of digest? If so, now that TB supports MIME digests (quite
JA> nicely too), perhaps that would be a better format?

Not  yet,  it  need  programing  on  Mail Base Format, I guess. Now I am
concentrating  on stripping out HTML part of message, I will activate in
this server in short, stay tune.

JA> The advantages of MIME digests are numerous, but the biggest is that
JA> you reply to the individual message, not to the digest.

You right.

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- Syafril -


Name  : Syafril Hermansyah  |Company: Duta Integrasi Pratama 
Mailto: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> |Voice  : (62) (21) 385-1600  
FAXto : (62)(21)351-9241 key:000FAX |URL: 


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Created : Tuesday, September 26, 2000, 11:12:33 GMT +0700

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Re: dealing with digests - yet another question

[Januk Aggarwal]

Hello Marck,


On  Monday, September 25, 2000  at  02:13:02 GMT +0100 (which was 6:13 PM
where I live) witnesses say Marck D. Pearlstone typed:

 :)

> You  could  be  right  to  an extent but I would suggest that, for the
> number  of times you would actually *want* to quote back the signature
> en-masse,  it would be so few and far between that I wouldn't to spare
> the  hotkey  / menu option / code space / development time involved in
> actually supporting the functionality.

While I agree it is low on the priority list, I do believe that this
is a counter-intuitive restriction that has been added.  I think it
comes down to, should TB respect the judgement of the sender or the
person replying to the sender.  Since this is not the *main* way to
reply, I think TB should respect the person replying.

Your points are very valid in general.  But because you are explicitly
selecting text and explicitly telling TB to use that text, TB should
obey that desire.  Even if the user is a poor misguided soul.  :)

All that said, I should reiterate, I agree that this is not a
big bug.  It is simply a nuisance item.  And not even a big one at
that.



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 Januk Aggarwal
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Re: dealing with digests - yet another question

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Januk,

On 26 September 2000 at 17:44:55 GMT -0700 (which was 01:44 where I
live) Januk Aggarwal wrote and made these points on the subject
of "dealing with digests - yet another question":

JA> In the context of digests, I agree. However, what if I want to
JA> comment on somebody's current cookie? Maybe I got a real charge
JA> out of it and jut had to make an electrifying retort. Nothing
JA> negative, all positive comments of course.[1]

What  a  shocking array of puns you have generated! The battery I have
suffered is terminal. Let's see if I can spark some a-cord.

>> A message ends at the signature.

JA> I disagree, especially when one's signature is dynamic with
JA> cookies, PS's and other stuff that people like to put down there.

Now  I  always  put PS's above the signature for that very reason. The
signature  cut  mark  is  where the text is supposed to stop. Anything
below  that  is,  by definition, for discarding from a reply. If it is
not discardable, it should be above the cut.

JA> Plus since I'm specifically *telling* TB what to quote, why should
JA> it override my judgement? It's up to me to gauge the situation,
JA> no?

That's a fair comment but...

JA>  here is a copy of Marck's cookie from the message I responded
JA> to: Note that I had to cut and paste it despite my selection
JA> attempts.

>> Headline - Man Struck by Lightning Faces Battery Charge

The  "exception  that proves the rule" IMHO. Separate cut and paste is
the  right thing to do because - look - it's just one line hidden away
in  all  the  2  lines of attribution, a rule, 3 lines of sig block, a
joke, another rule and the TB version info I always post here. You had
to copy and paste one line instead of having to do two mark and delete
operations on the whole sig block.

You  could  be  right  to  an extent but I would suggest that, for the
number  of times you would actually *want* to quote back the signature
en-masse,  it would be so few and far between that I wouldn't to spare
the  hotkey  / menu option / code space / development time involved in
actually supporting the functionality.

- --
Cheers,
.\\arck
 
[Marck D. Pearlstone | Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA  ]
[ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com  ]
[ PGP Key: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=GET%20MARCKKEY> ]

 Headline - Kids Make Nutritious Snacks
 
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Re: dealing with digests - yet another question

[Januk Aggarwal]

Hello Marck,


On  Monday, September 25, 2000  at  01:17:11 GMT +0100 (which was 5:17 PM
where I live) witnesses say Marck D. Pearlstone typed:


J>> ... I must confirm replying by Select All and F4 does not do the
J>> trick: it does _not_ override the signature delimiters.

> No  ... and It shouldn't. Why would you want to anyway?

In the context of digests, I agree.  However, what if I want to
comment on somebody's current cookie?  Maybe I got a real charge out
of it and jut had to make an electrifying retort.  Nothing negative,
all positive comments of course.[1]

> A reply should always be to a single message.

True.

> A message ends at the signature.

I disagree, especially when one's signature is dynamic with cookies,
PS's and other stuff that people like to put down there.  Plus since
I'm specifically *telling* TB what to quote, why should it override my
judgement?  It's up to me to gauge the situation, no?

I hope you don't put up too much resistance to this post.  But I sense
it has real potential for a long discussion.  (You might need to wire
my fingers shut to stop the electricity jokes).  :)
 

[1] For completeness, here is a copy of Marck's cookie from the
message I responded to:  Note that I had to cut and paste it
despite my selection attempts.

> Headline - Man Struck by Lightning Faces Battery Charge


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 Januk Aggarwal
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Re: dealing with digests

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

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Hi Januk,

On 26 September 2000 at 17:30:28 GMT -0700 (which was 01:30 where I
live) Januk Aggarwal wrote and made these points on the subject
of "dealing with digests":

JA> TB has a great MIME digest viewer. Hey Syafril, I seem to remember
JA> a discussion about MIME digests way back. Does your server support
JA> that  type  of  digest?

Not inherently - we'd have to program up an MBF for it.

JA> If so, now that TB supports MIME digests (quite nicely too),
JA> perhaps that would be a better format?

It certainly would.

- --
Cheers,
.\\arck
 
[Marck D. Pearlstone | Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA  ]
[ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com  ]
[ PGP Key: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=GET%20MARCKKEY> ]

 Kids Stuff:
Vacuums are nothings. We only mention
them to let them know we know they're there.
 
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Re: dealing with digests

[Januk Aggarwal]

Hello Gary,


On  Monday, September 25, 2000  at  12:58:23 GMT -0400 (which was 9:58 AM
where I live) witnesses say Gary Mort typed:

> Secondly: Does anyone know of a good digest viewer?

TB has a great MIME digest viewer.  Hey Syafril, I seem to remember a
discussion about MIME digests way back.  Does your server support that
type of digest?  If so, now that TB supports MIME digests (quite
nicely too), perhaps that would be a better format?

The advantages of MIME digests are numerous, but the biggest is that
you reply to the individual message, not to the digest.


-- 
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 Januk Aggarwal
 See header for e-mail address

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 under Windows 98 4.10 Build   A 

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Re: dealing with digests - yet another question

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

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Hi JMReichow,

On 26 September 2000 at 01:54:04 GMT +0200 (which was 00:54 where I
live) JMReichow wrote and made these points on the subject
of "dealing with digests - yet another question":

J> ... I must confirm replying by Select All and F4 does not do the
J> trick: it does _not_ override the signature delimiters.

No  ... and It shouldn't. Why would you want to anyway? A reply should
always  be  to a single message. A message ends at the signature. IMHO
It's  not  really  the done thing to reply to multiple messages from a
digest in a single reply.

- --
Cheers,
.\\arck
 
[Marck D. Pearlstone | Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA  ]
[ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com  ]
[ PGP Key: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=GET%20MARCKKEY> ]

 Headline - Man Struck by Lightning Faces Battery Charge
 
 TB! v1.46d S/N 14F4B4B2 on Windows 98 4.10 Build   A

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Re: dealing with digests - yet another question

[JMReichow]

Scripsi:
> ...
> 
> Hello  List,  I  can't  hide my lack of ba(t)sic knowledge here,

BUT  I  have  been  checking  the  Archives  since, and I must confirm
replying  by  Select  All  and F4 does not do the trick: it does _not_
override the signature delimiters.

> It  turns out that when replying to a list digest (such as the one I'm
> receiving  from  TBUDL),  Quoting-in-Reply  (as defined by the %Quotes
> macro  in  the  Reply Template) will _only_ quote the digest up to the
> first  signature  delimiter  contained  in any message digested. Which
> means  I cannot even quote the full digest in my reply (if only to cut
> it down to what I want to refer to), unless - yes, what?

-- 

 Best,
 Marc

 v1.46c W95B PII266
  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: dealing with digests - yet another question

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi JMReichow,

On 25 September 2000 at 00:15:43 GMT +0200 (which was 23:15 where I
live) JMReichow wrote and made these points on the subject
of "dealing with digests  -  yet another question":

J> Here's my Q: to you quoting and template experts:

J>  How  _can_  I include a quote of the full digest into my answer - not
J>  that  I'm  generally  intending  to,  don't  worry  -  overriding the
J>  individual standard signature delimiters ?

Select  the portion of text to quote then press F4 to reply using only
the selected text.

HTH

- --
Cheers,
.\\arck
 
[Marck D. Pearlstone | Moderator TBUDL / TBBETA  ]
[ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com  ]
[ PGP Key: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Body=GET%20MARCKKEY> ]

 Headline - Shot Off Woman's Leg Helps Nicklaus to 66
 
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Comment: PGP Sealed for freshness!

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sKNEtKBbHUVL1nm49s9hXv3Z
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Re: dealing with digests - yet another question

[JMReichow]

Monday, September 25, 2000, 9:21:12 PM, scriptur:

> Special Issue (#2000-343) - Topics This Issue:
...
>      6) dealing with digests
...

Hello  List,  I  can't  hide my lack of ba(t)sic knowledge here, but I
have  noticed  that  the  string "-- ", is sometimes called a standard
signature  delimiter  and  is  (therefore)important  in stuff like the
%ISSIGNATURE macros.

It  turns out that when replying to a list digest (such as the one I'm
receiving  from  TBUDL),  Quoting-in-Reply  (as defined by the %Quotes
macro  in  the  Reply Template) will _only_ quote the digest up to the
first  signature  delimiter  contained  in any message digested. Which
means  I cannot even quote the full digest in my reply (if only to cut
it down to what I want to refer to), unless - yes, what?

[  I've  been  experimenting  with replies a bit, and the rule for the
delimiter  seems  to  be  that  it  is dash-dash-space _plus Enter/New
Line_. The following ones aren't:

J> --Best

J> -- Best

J> --
J> Best

- meaning they haven't been recognized as such and wouldn't have ended
the  quote function; this may look surprising in the case of the third
example, the (invisible) reason being that the _space_ after dash-dash
is missing. - O.K., sorry to anyone who thinks this is obvious, but it
wasn't to me at first 'sight'... ]

Here's my Q: to you quoting and template experts:

 How  _can_  I include a quote of the full digest into my answer - not
 that  I'm  generally  intending  to,  don't  worry  -  overriding the
 individual standard signature delimiters ?

Any explanation or link appreciated!

PS:
(here's a fake one:)
--
 Best,
 Marc

 v1.46c W95B PII266
  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: dealing with digests

[Karin Spaink]

On 25-09-2000 at 18:58, Gary Mort kindly wrote:

> Secondly: Does anyone know of a good digest viewer?  What I would like
> to  be  able  to do is copy the digest and send it to some application
> that  will  break it up into seperate messages for me,

 In that case, what is the use of receiving it as
digest in the first place?

> and then either display them itself or provide a format
> that I can import back into The Bat.

When I want to save part of a digest, I move the whole
message to my outbox, open it, edit it, save it and move it
back. This way, the message-id and the timestamps will
change but with digests I doon't care - if you, OTOH do care
about preserving those, export the digest message via the
Tools menu, edit it manully end import it. Voila.



- K -

-- 

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  - Daniel Richler: Kicking Tomorrow



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dealing with digests

[Gary Mort]

Hello TBUDL Users,

I  have  two  things I was wondering if someone else has already dealt
with, both involving digests.

Firstly:  Does anyone have a macro that could be used to selectively reply
to a digest AND set the subject appropriately?  Basically, what I want
to do is highlight a single message in the digest, starting with the subject
and  including  the text I want quoted, hit Reply-->selected text, and
have  not  only the text quoted but the subject set to "RE: "
instead  of  "RE:  Digest  Number such and such".  Where subject comes
from the first line of text I have selected.

Secondly: Does anyone know of a good digest viewer?  What I would like
to  be  able  to do is copy the digest and send it to some application
that  will  break it up into seperate messages for me, and then either
display  them  itself  or provide a format that I can import back into
The Bat.

-- 
Using The Bat! 1.46c
under Windows NT
4.0 Build 1381
Service Pack 6, RC 1.5

 Gary  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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