[teampractices] [TPG/URGENT-ISH] Thoughts on Gerrit Cleanup Day

[Max Binder]

*The Gellerman TL;DR:* Please check out this etherpad
 and voice any thoughts
or concerns by reply to this email thread, so I can relay that to the Phab
epic  and AKlapper. Fairly
time-sensitive, as AKlapper wants to start emailing the tentative plan this
week, no later than Friday.

Hello TPGers,

Andre and I finally got together and had an engaging discussion this
morning regarding organizing a Gerrit Cleanup Day (see epic:
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T88531).

This etherpad is the meeting notes:
https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/GerritCleanupOrg

As the TPG liaison to to this task, but not necessarily the "steward," I
would love if TPG could provide feedback to our 1:1. I channeled my inner
Joel when trying to break down the goals of the day and defining "done,"
and my inner Kristen with superior note-taking. :)

Andre is hoping to start the scheduling process no later than Friday, and
would like to draft emails to get line manager and community buy-in
sometime early this week. Your thoughts and process-guru-ness are
appreciated!

Max
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Re: [teampractices] [TPG/URGENT-ISH] Thoughts on Gerrit Cleanup Day

[Kristen Lans]

Overall seems fine to me, especially given that this is an experiment. As
with all experiments, I wonder: how will you know you are successful? I see
things like "All open changesets submitted by *new* volunteers (as opposed
to new changesets alone) in the last three months should have at least one
review.". Probably be good to be really clear and explicit about what
success looks like for this event in order to evaluate whether or not it
will be an ongoing thing.

One more feedback: depending on what time this starts, Friday can be tricky
as SF AM on Friday is the start of the weekend for many international
peeps.

On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Max Binder  wrote:

> *The Gellerman TL;DR:* Please check out this etherpad
>  and voice any
> thoughts or concerns by reply to this email thread, so I can relay that to
> the Phab epic  and AKlapper.
> Fairly time-sensitive, as AKlapper wants to start emailing the tentative
> plan this week, no later than Friday.
>
> Hello TPGers,
>
> Andre and I finally got together and had an engaging discussion this
> morning regarding organizing a Gerrit Cleanup Day (see epic:
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T88531).
>
> This etherpad is the meeting notes:
> https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/GerritCleanupOrg
>
> As the TPG liaison to to this task, but not necessarily the "steward," I
> would love if TPG could provide feedback to our 1:1. I channeled my inner
> Joel when trying to break down the goals of the day and defining "done,"
> and my inner Kristen with superior note-taking. :)
>
> Andre is hoping to start the scheduling process no later than Friday, and
> would like to draft emails to get line manager and community buy-in
> sometime early this week. Your thoughts and process-guru-ness are
> appreciated!
>
> Max
>
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Re: [teampractices] [TPG/URGENT-ISH] Thoughts on Gerrit Cleanup Day

[Kevin Smith]

Great notes. I don't see any red flags.

I agree with Kristen's Friday concerns (while appreciating the concept of a
"fun" day). And I agree that the wording will be very important, along with
buy-in from managers.



Kevin Smith
Agile Coach
Wikimedia Foundation



*Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment. Help us make it a reality.*

On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Kristen Lans  wrote:

> Overall seems fine to me, especially given that this is an experiment. As
> with all experiments, I wonder: how will you know you are successful? I see
> things like "All open changesets submitted by *new* volunteers (as opposed
> to new changesets alone) in the last three months should have at least one
> review.". Probably be good to be really clear and explicit about what
> success looks like for this event in order to evaluate whether or not it
> will be an ongoing thing.
>
> One more feedback: depending on what time this starts, Friday can be
> tricky as SF AM on Friday is the start of the weekend for many
> international peeps.
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Max Binder  wrote:
>
>> *The Gellerman TL;DR:* Please check out this etherpad
>>  and voice any
>> thoughts or concerns by reply to this email thread, so I can relay that to
>> the Phab epic  and AKlapper.
>> Fairly time-sensitive, as AKlapper wants to start emailing the tentative
>> plan this week, no later than Friday.
>>
>> Hello TPGers,
>>
>> Andre and I finally got together and had an engaging discussion this
>> morning regarding organizing a Gerrit Cleanup Day (see epic:
>> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T88531).
>>
>> This etherpad is the meeting notes:
>> https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/GerritCleanupOrg
>>
>> As the TPG liaison to to this task, but not necessarily the "steward," I
>> would love if TPG could provide feedback to our 1:1. I channeled my inner
>> Joel when trying to break down the goals of the day and defining "done,"
>> and my inner Kristen with superior note-taking. :)
>>
>> Andre is hoping to start the scheduling process no later than Friday, and
>> would like to draft emails to get line manager and community buy-in
>> sometime early this week. Your thoughts and process-guru-ness are
>> appreciated!
>>
>> Max
>>
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>>
>
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Re: [teampractices] [TPG/URGENT-ISH] Thoughts on Gerrit Cleanup Day

[Max Binder]

CCing Andre in case he is not subscribed :)

On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 12:08 PM, Kevin Smith  wrote:

> Great notes. I don't see any red flags.
>
> I agree with Kristen's Friday concerns (while appreciating the concept of
> a "fun" day). And I agree that the wording will be very important, along
> with buy-in from managers.
>
>
>
> Kevin Smith
> Agile Coach
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
>
>
> *Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the
> sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment. Help us make it a reality.*
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Kristen Lans  wrote:
>
>> Overall seems fine to me, especially given that this is an experiment. As
>> with all experiments, I wonder: how will you know you are successful? I see
>> things like "All open changesets submitted by *new* volunteers (as opposed
>> to new changesets alone) in the last three months should have at least one
>> review.". Probably be good to be really clear and explicit about what
>> success looks like for this event in order to evaluate whether or not it
>> will be an ongoing thing.
>>
>> One more feedback: depending on what time this starts, Friday can be
>> tricky as SF AM on Friday is the start of the weekend for many
>> international peeps.
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Max Binder  wrote:
>>
>>> *The Gellerman TL;DR:* Please check out this etherpad
>>>  and voice any
>>> thoughts or concerns by reply to this email thread, so I can relay that to
>>> the Phab epic  and AKlapper.
>>> Fairly time-sensitive, as AKlapper wants to start emailing the tentative
>>> plan this week, no later than Friday.
>>>
>>> Hello TPGers,
>>>
>>> Andre and I finally got together and had an engaging discussion this
>>> morning regarding organizing a Gerrit Cleanup Day (see epic:
>>> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T88531).
>>>
>>> This etherpad is the meeting notes:
>>> https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/GerritCleanupOrg
>>>
>>> As the TPG liaison to to this task, but not necessarily the "steward," I
>>> would love if TPG could provide feedback to our 1:1. I channeled my inner
>>> Joel when trying to break down the goals of the day and defining "done,"
>>> and my inner Kristen with superior note-taking. :)
>>>
>>> Andre is hoping to start the scheduling process no later than Friday,
>>> and would like to draft emails to get line manager and community buy-in
>>> sometime early this week. Your thoughts and process-guru-ness are
>>> appreciated!
>>>
>>> Max
>>>
>>> ___
>>> teampractices mailing list
>>> teampractices@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/teampractices
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
>>
>
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Re: [teampractices] [TPG/URGENT-ISH] Thoughts on Gerrit Cleanup Day

[David Strine]

It seems the goals are pretty clear.

+1 to the success metrics question from Kristen.

How do we come to consensus on the proposed date? Are product and tech
managers going to weigh in on a specific date?


On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 1:12 PM, Max Binder  wrote:

> CCing Andre in case he is not subscribed :)
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 12:08 PM, Kevin Smith  wrote:
>
>> Great notes. I don't see any red flags.
>>
>> I agree with Kristen's Friday concerns (while appreciating the concept of
>> a "fun" day). And I agree that the wording will be very important, along
>> with buy-in from managers.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kevin Smith
>> Agile Coach
>> Wikimedia Foundation
>>
>>
>>
>> *Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in
>> the sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment. Help us make it a reality.*
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 11:50 AM, Kristen Lans 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Overall seems fine to me, especially given that this is an experiment.
>>> As with all experiments, I wonder: how will you know you are successful? I
>>> see things like "All open changesets submitted by *new* volunteers (as
>>> opposed to new changesets alone) in the last three months should have at
>>> least one review.". Probably be good to be really clear and explicit about
>>> what success looks like for this event in order to evaluate whether or not
>>> it will be an ongoing thing.
>>>
>>> One more feedback: depending on what time this starts, Friday can be
>>> tricky as SF AM on Friday is the start of the weekend for many
>>> international peeps.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 2:08 PM, Max Binder 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 *The Gellerman TL;DR:* Please check out this etherpad
  and voice any
 thoughts or concerns by reply to this email thread, so I can relay that to
 the Phab epic  and AKlapper.
 Fairly time-sensitive, as AKlapper wants to start emailing the tentative
 plan this week, no later than Friday.

 Hello TPGers,

 Andre and I finally got together and had an engaging discussion this
 morning regarding organizing a Gerrit Cleanup Day (see epic:
 https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T88531).

 This etherpad is the meeting notes:
 https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/GerritCleanupOrg

 As the TPG liaison to to this task, but not necessarily the "steward,"
 I would love if TPG could provide feedback to our 1:1. I channeled my inner
 Joel when trying to break down the goals of the day and defining "done,"
 and my inner Kristen with superior note-taking. :)

 Andre is hoping to start the scheduling process no later than Friday,
 and would like to draft emails to get line manager and community buy-in
 sometime early this week. Your thoughts and process-guru-ness are
 appreciated!

 Max

 ___
 teampractices mailing list
 teampractices@lists.wikimedia.org
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/teampractices


>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
>>
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>>
>
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Re: [teampractices] [TPG/URGENT-ISH] Thoughts on Gerrit Cleanup Day

[Quim Gil]

On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 10:21 PM, David Strine  wrote:

> How do we come to consensus on the proposed date?
>

There is no day of the week where Asia, Europe, and America can work 8
hours together comfortably, so we need to think on an activity that makes
sense for a "Day" considering multiple timezones.

I think Release Management and Engineering managers will prefer to stop
regular activities to focus on code review more on a Friday than any other
day, with release trains and the big bunch of regular team meetings
populating schedules. This is why I support a Friday, but will support
whatever alternative day of the week makes happy to Engineering teams.

Again, it is an experiment, so we can pick a day and then analyze. We won't
find the day that works well for everybody.  :)

-- 
Quim Gil
Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil
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Re: [teampractices] [TPG/URGENT-ISH] Thoughts on Gerrit Cleanup Day

[Arthur Richards]

Generally looks good to me.

Couple of questions - are there plans to document/track 'unmaintained'
repositories? Further, are there additional metrics that can come out of
the GCD that we don't get out of Korma that would be useful information to
have (eg patches to non-WMF maintained repos vs patches to WMF maintained
repos)?

On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 1:45 PM, Quim Gil  wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 10:21 PM, David Strine 
> wrote:
>
>> How do we come to consensus on the proposed date?
>>
>
> There is no day of the week where Asia, Europe, and America can work 8
> hours together comfortably, so we need to think on an activity that makes
> sense for a "Day" considering multiple timezones.
>
> I think Release Management and Engineering managers will prefer to stop
> regular activities to focus on code review more on a Friday than any other
> day, with release trains and the big bunch of regular team meetings
> populating schedules. This is why I support a Friday, but will support
> whatever alternative day of the week makes happy to Engineering teams.
>
> Again, it is an experiment, so we can pick a day and then analyze. We
> won't find the day that works well for everybody.  :)
>
> --
> Quim Gil
> Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil
>
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-- 
Arthur Richards
Team Practices Manager
[[User:Awjrichards]]
IRC: awjr
+1-415-839-6885 x6687
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Re: [teampractices] [TPG/URGENT-ISH] Thoughts on Gerrit Cleanup Day

[Joaquin Oltra Hernandez]

I would suggest doing a post-release day (branch cuts happen on Tuesday, so
maybe use Wed or Thu) so that if we merge a lot of patches we'll have as
much time as possible until the next release cut to test stuff on the beta
cluster.

This is a great idea, and we need to think of continuous efforts to educate
wmf developers about better code review practices.

I recommend reading this email Sam (phuedx) sent in June to mobile-l:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/mobile-l/2015-June/009357.html

And watch the talk if you are interested.

Hey y'all,
> I watch a lot of talks in my downtime. I even post the ones I like to a
> Tumblr… sometimes [0]. I felt like sharing Derek Prior's "Implementing a
> Strong Code Review Culture" from RailsConf 2015 in particular because it's
> relevant to the conversations that the Reading Web team are having around
> process and quality. You can watch the talk on YouTube [1] and, if you're
> keen, you can read the paper that's referenced over at Microsoft Research
> [2].
> I particularly like the challenge of providing two paragraphs of context
> in a commit message – to introduce the problem and your solution – and
> trying to overcome negativity bias in written communication* by offering
> compliments whenever possible and asking, not telling, while providing
> critical feedback.
> I hope you enjoy the talk as much as I did.
> –Sam
> [0]Â http://sometalks.tumblr.com/
> [1]Â https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJjmw9TRB7s
> [2]Â http://research.microsoft.com/apps/pubs/default.aspx?id=180283
> * The speaker said "research has shown" but I didn't see a citation
>


*Notes (width added emphasis)*
>
>- Code review isn't for catching bugs
>
>
>- "Expectations, Outcomes, and Challenges of Modern Code Review"
>
>
>- Chief benefits of code review:
>
>
>- Knowledge transfer
>
>
>- Increased team awareness
>
>
>- Finding alternative solutions
>
>
>- Code review is "the discipline of explaining your code to your peers"
>
>
>- Process is more important than the result
>
>
>- Goes on to define code review as "the discipline of discussing your
>code with your peers"
>
>
>- If we get better at code review, then we'll get better at
>communicating technically as a team
>
> Rules of Engagement
>
>- As an author, provide context
>
>
>- "If content is king, then context is God"
>
>
>- *In a pull request (patch set) the code is the content and the
>commit message is the context*
>
>
>- Provide sufficient context - bring the reviewer up to speed with
>what you've been doing in the past X hours
>
>
>- *Challenge: provide at least two paragraphs of context in your
>commit message*
>
>
>- This additional context lives on in the commit history whereas links
>to issue trackers might not
>
>
>- As a reviewer, ask questions rather than making demands
>
>
>- Research has shown that there's a negativity bias in written
>communication. *Offer compliments whenever you can*
>
>
>- *When you need to provide critical feedback, ask, don't tell*, e.g.
>"extract a service to reduce some of this duplication" could be formulated
>as "what do you think about extracting a service to reduce some of this
>duplication?"
>
>
>- "Did you consider?", "can you clarify?"
>
>
>- "Why didn't you just..." is framed negatively and includes the word
>just
>
>
>- Use the Socratic method: asking and answering questions to stimulate
>critical thinking and to illuminate ideas
>
> Insist on high quality reviews, but agree to disagree
>
>- Conflict is good. *Conflict drives a higher standard of coding
>provided there's healthy debate*
>
>
>- Everyone has a minimum bar to entry for quality. Once that bar is
>met, then everything else is a trade-off
>
>
>- Reasonable people disagree all the time
>
>
>- Review what's important to you
>
>
>- SRP (Single Responsibility Principle) (the S from SOLID)
>
>
>- Naming
>
>
>- Complexity
>
>
>- Test Coverage
>
>
>- ... (whatever else you're comfortable in giving feedback on)
>
>
>- What about style?
>
>
>- Style is important
>
>
>- "People who received style comments on their code perceived that
>review negatively"
>
>
>- Adopt a styleguide
>
>
> Benefits of a Strong Code Review Culture
>
>- Better code
>
>
>- Better developers through constant knowledge transfer
>
>
>- Team ownership of code, which leads to fewer silos
>
>
>- Healthy debate
>
>

On Wed, Aug 5, 2015 at 1:58 AM, Arthur Richards 
wrote:

> Generally looks good to me.
>
> Couple of questions - are there plans to document/track 'unmaintained'
> repositories? Further, are there additional metrics that can come out of
> the GCD that we don't get out of Korma that would be useful information to
> have (eg patches to non-WMF maintained repos vs patches to WMF maintained
> repos)?
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2015 at 1:45 PM, Quim Gil

Re: [teampractices] [TPG/URGENT-ISH] Thoughts on Gerrit Cleanup Day

[Greg Grossmeier]

> I would suggest doing a post-release day (branch cuts happen on Tuesday, so
> maybe use Wed or Thu) so that if we merge a lot of patches we'll have as
> much time as possible until the next release cut to test stuff on the beta
> cluster.

That's a great point, Joaquin, and I agree. If we see a ton of
random-ish patches merged in random places in our code base it'd be a
good idea to have a bit more time to test on Beta Cluster.


-- 
| Greg GrossmeierGPG: B2FA 27B1 F7EB D327 6B8E |
| identi.ca: @gregA18D 1138 8E47 FAC8 1C7D |

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Re: [teampractices] [TPG/URGENT-ISH] Thoughts on Gerrit Cleanup Day

[Andre Klapper]

Generally: Thanks for all the feedback in this thread. Appreciated!

On Tue, 2015-08-04 at 14:50 -0400, Kristen Lans wrote:
> Overall seems fine to me, especially given that this is an 
> experiment. As with all experiments, I wonder: how will you know you 
> are successful? I see things like "All open changesets submitted by 
> *new* volunteers (as opposed to new changesets alone) in the last 
> three months should have at least one review.". 

For the specific example, data in Korma might be helpful to evaluate:
http://korma.wmflabs.org/browser/code_contrib_new_gone.html
(However it's unclear to me how often that is updated; also see 
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T102112 marked as a blocker)

> Probably be good to be really clear and explicit about what success 
> looks like for this event in order to evaluate whether or not it will 
> be an ongoing thing. 

+1 on "we need metrics for evaluation of success"
That's an area I still need to do more homework.

andre
-- 
Andre Klapper | Wikimedia Bugwrangler
http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/


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Re: [teampractices] [TPG/URGENT-ISH] Thoughts on Gerrit Cleanup Day

[Andre Klapper]

On Tue, 2015-08-04 at 16:58 -0700, Arthur Richards wrote:
> Couple of questions - are there plans to document/track
> 'unmaintained' repositories? 

That sounds pretty related to the discussion in
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T102920 (input welcome!). AFAIK we
don't even have a general "consensus" how to define "unmaintained". :-/

Are you basically after automatically updated stats that state
"Repository XYZ saw the last merged code change on -MM-DD" (and
hopefully exclude merged translation updates)?
Only thing I know is: We do have some activity charts per repo at
http://korma.wmflabs.org/browser/scm-repos.html but I have no idea what
that list is sorted by or if it is sortable. Feel free to file a
request under "Analytics-Tech-community-metrics" in Phabricator.

> Further, are there additional metrics that can come out of the GCD 
> that we don't get out of Korma that would be useful information to 
> have (eg patches to non-WMF maintained repos vs patches to WMF 
> maintained repos)?

I'm not aware of any (machine-readable?) "repositories maintained by
WMF folks" information available anywhere. 
I am/was only aware of files which list the (MW extension) repos
deployed on WMF servers. Those were once upon a time listed in
https://git.wikimedia.org/raw/mediawiki%2ftools%2frelease.git/HEAD/make-wmf-branch%2fdefault.conf
and now that I check I see they are not anymore. Hmm hmm.

andre
-- 
Andre Klapper | Wikimedia Bugwrangler
http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/


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Re: [teampractices] [TPG/URGENT-ISH] Thoughts on Gerrit Cleanup Day

[Andre Klapper]

On Wed, 2015-08-05 at 08:16 -0700, Greg Grossmeier wrote:
> e="13:43:12 +0200">
> > I would suggest doing a post-release day (branch cuts happen on Tuesday, so
> > maybe use Wed or Thu) so that if we merge a lot of patches we'll have as
> > much time as possible until the next release cut to test stuff on the beta
> > cluster.
> 
> That's a great point, Joaquin, and I agree. If we see a ton of
> random-ish patches merged in random places in our code base it'd be a
> good idea to have a bit more time to test on Beta Cluster.

Quim already covered why the initial idea proposed Friday (fun
character, getting out of usual habits a bit) but "more testing" is a
very convincing reason.

So let's target Wednesday, September 23th.

In any case, it's all about making sure that people actually do manage
to break out a bit of their "daily routine" and dedicate the day to
reviewing patches, instead of "I'll first have to do my daily standup
and then I need to finish that stuff from yesterday and maybe later in
the afternoon I might get to that patch review thingy". You get me.

andre
-- 
Andre Klapper | Wikimedia Bugwrangler
http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/


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