Re: Install along side Windows (blocker) bugs, 875944 and 885912
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 05:21:03PM -0500, Felix Miata wrote: > On 2012-12-13 17:04 (GMT-0500) Tom Horsley composed: > >The trouble with that is that the Windows resizer is not very good. > >I tried to do that, but Windows had this giant partition with supposedly > >"unmoveable" data structures right in the middle, and wouldn't let me > >resize smaller than the end of that. > > Those who follow all the instructions don't have that problem. Those > "unmovable" areas are usually the swap file and/or the hibernation > file. Disable those, reboot, and resize can work as expected. Doing > it in safe mode may help if it turns out there are other "unmovable" > areas. I've never had any success with repartitioning in Windows. That's just going to harm adoption of Fedora if you require users to do extra unfamiliar and frustrating steps in Windows. There's no technical reason for that either - Linux can resize NTFS fine, it's just seems to be a regression in Anaconda for now. -- Brian -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Disadvantages of offline updates
On Tue, Dec 04, 2012 at 11:12:22PM -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote: > On Tue, 2012-12-04 at 18:11 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote: > > I'm not sure the current status. When I filed my bug, which was a bit > > pre-Beta, I was getting notifications, obviously (the bug being that > > clicking on them triggered an online update). I can't say I've noticed any > > lately, but I don't know if that means there aren't any or I just forgot > > about them, or if it's intentional or a bug... > > We are only showing a notification about 'important' updates - which are > currently defined as security updates. And there's another inconsistency > there in that the notification lets you launch the update viewer, which lets > you review the updates and install them 'online' - the opposite of what you > get for regular updates. > > So yes, the user experience is not as consistent as we want it to, yet. I > think Adam already pointed to the relevant upstream bugs. Thanks for the explanation. I think it'd be best if the user was given an opportunity to review updates for every time the "Install Updates & Restart" menu item exists. That could involve showing a notification for every type of update (which might be too much), although am I right in thinking that the minimum time between showing notifications is longer than the minimum time between auto-downloading updates? If so, you'd still run into cases where the install updates menu item is available but you haven't gotten a notification yet. Another solution could be to change the menu item so it opens the update application and lets you review the updates there, with a button to install and restart. (Basically the equivalent of an update notification with "View", but integrated into the Shell user menu.) That would add an extra step to people who don't want to review their updates, but would remove several steps from people who do. I think that last solution would solve the issue of my current workflow: 1. See updates can be installed in the menu 2. Switch to Activities mode 3. Open Software (gpk-application) 4. App menu -> Check for Updates 5. Quit the application after reviewing updates 6. Go back to Shell menu to install them offline ...which seems overly complicated, unless I'm missing something. -- Brian -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: Disadvantages of offline updates
On Tue, Dec 04, 2012 at 05:04:34PM -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Tue, 2012-12-04 at 15:19 -0800, Brian Marshall wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have a couple issues with the new offline updates feature ("Install
> > Updates & Restart" in the GNOME Shell menu).
> >
> > The first issue: users can no longer review the updates before they install
> > them. The list of updates is not shown at any step of the update process
> > anymore for offline updates.
> >
> > That seems weird to me, and it's a departure from other Linux distros, as
> > well as Windows and OS X. You *can* manually look at the list with the
> > PackageKit GUI or yum itself, but you have to go out of your way to do that
> > - it doesn't pop up as a notification anymore.
> >
> > Are there any plans to let users review these updates, or is that
> > considered something users shouldn't see anymore?
>
> I believe yes, this is just that it hasn't all been hooked up between
> packagekit-gnome and the offline update feature yet. There's a few
> relevant bugs - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=863592 ,
> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=687149 ,
> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=683745 are entry points, I
> think.
That's good to hear, thanks for the links.
> > The second issue: forcing people to restart to install updates will lead to
> > some users (like me) putting off those updates because they don't want to
> > restart, which is insecure.
> >
> > Even though with the way Linux file handles work, running applications
> > wouldn't automatically get security updates anyway, at least newly launched
> > or restarted applications would. Logging out would work for user
> > applications as well. Both of those are less intrusive than a restart.
> >
> > I know you can go to Software -> Check for Updates and bypass offline
> > updates entirely, but that's a lot less convenient than waiting for a
> > "software updates are available" notification and clicking the button
> > there.
> >
> > Was it deemed that increased update procrastination from users is still a
> > worthy trade-off?
>
> Note that you're not 'forced' to restart to install updates - you can still
> do them online with yum.
Indeed, sorry if I implied that. I know that you can bypass it manually - I
meant that since I didn't receive a Shell notification, the "default" way to
install most updates seems to be to use the update & restart menu item.
Although, after reading those GNOME bugs, is not receiving a notification a bug
on its own? I haven't seen an "updates available" notification since I
installed the F18 beta last week.
-- Brian
--
test mailing list
test@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Disadvantages of offline updates
Hi,
I have a couple issues with the new offline updates feature ("Install Updates &
Restart" in the GNOME Shell menu).
The first issue: users can no longer review the updates before they install
them. The list of updates is not shown at any step of the update process
anymore for offline updates.
That seems weird to me, and it's a departure from other Linux distros, as well
as Windows and OS X. You *can* manually look at the list with the PackageKit
GUI or yum itself, but you have to go out of your way to do that - it doesn't
pop up as a notification anymore.
Are there any plans to let users review these updates, or is that considered
something users shouldn't see anymore?
The second issue: forcing people to restart to install updates will lead to
some users (like me) putting off those updates because they don't want to
restart, which is insecure.
Even though with the way Linux file handles work, running applications wouldn't
automatically get security updates anyway, at least newly launched or restarted
applications would. Logging out would work for user applications as well. Both
of those are less intrusive than a restart.
I know you can go to Software -> Check for Updates and bypass offline updates
entirely, but that's a lot less convenient than waiting for a "software updates
are available" notification and clicking the button there.
Was it deemed that increased update procrastination from users is still a
worthy trade-off?
Thanks.
-- Brian
--
test mailing list
test@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
