Re: F15 alpha problem.
On Thu, 2011-03-17 at 10:30 -0400, Adam Jackson wrote: > The only closed-source driver with a non-negligible market share - that > isn't nvidia or fglrx - that you might try this with is Poulsbo. I > don't remember how their libGL setup works offhand, but if it's like > DRI2 then it might work and you of course get to keep both pieces when > it doesn't. Last time I tried, it didn't work. I have now sold my Poulsbo machine to buy a new snowboard so I'm free to stop caring about THAT particular ball o' wax. Which reminds me, I need to go orphan it. Whee. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: F15 alpha problem.
On Wed, 2011-03-16 at 22:54 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Wed, 2011-03-16 at 22:54 +0100, Erik P. Olsen wrote: > > > Hm, which graphics hardware should I choose that is well supported? > > We're doing pretty well with most _real_ (i.e. not VM) cards. Intel is > probably the safest bet, but most NVIDIA and Radeon adapters seem to be > working okay, going off the Test Day feedback. You can take a look at > the individual Test Day results if you want to try and identify specific > cards that are reported as working or otherwise: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-03-10_GNOME3_Beta > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-02-03_GNOME3_Alpha > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-02-22_Nouveau > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-02-23_Radeon > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-02-24_Intel > > anything outside of the big three we really haven't done much testing on > and I can't say anything definitive. To a first approximation, I wouldn't expect any of the DRI1 drivers to work (i810, sis, mga, rage128, savage, tdfx, unichrome), if for no other reason than that the max texture size on those tends to top out at 1024x1024, which sort of puts an upper limit on your screen size. But I haven't tested whether "doesn't work" means fallback mode or means crashing in nasty ways. The only closed-source driver with a non-negligible market share - that isn't nvidia or fglrx - that you might try this with is Poulsbo. I don't remember how their libGL setup works offhand, but if it's like DRI2 then it might work and you of course get to keep both pieces when it doesn't. - ajax signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: F15 alpha problem.
On Wed, 2011-03-16 at 22:54 +0100, Erik P. Olsen wrote: > Hm, which graphics hardware should I choose that is well supported? We're doing pretty well with most _real_ (i.e. not VM) cards. Intel is probably the safest bet, but most NVIDIA and Radeon adapters seem to be working okay, going off the Test Day feedback. You can take a look at the individual Test Day results if you want to try and identify specific cards that are reported as working or otherwise: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-03-10_GNOME3_Beta https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-02-03_GNOME3_Alpha https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-02-22_Nouveau https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-02-23_Radeon https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Day:2011-02-24_Intel anything outside of the big three we really haven't done much testing on and I can't say anything definitive. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: F15 alpha problem.
On 3/16/11 1:39 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Wed, 2011-03-16 at 12:13 -0400, Adam Jackson wrote: >> On 3/16/11 7:30 AM, James Laska wrote: >>> GNOME3 is not expected to work in virtualized environments where >>> hardware accelerated graphics are not available. >> >> ... yet. I've made a modest amount of progress to getting it running on >> the software GL stack, and I'm hoping to land the changes for that >> before the beta change deadline on the 29th. I've gotten it from >> "mutter crashes instantly" to "shell looks fine, windows don't paint >> correctly", but I'm still a fair way from having it totally working. >> >> I have no idea what the UI for this will look like once it's working, or >> even if I'll have it working in time. But I'm hoping it'll work as a >> tactical measure until we have a sane virt 3d story. > > Cool! Is that llvmpipe? Yes, we switched to that from classic swrast on the grounds that llvmpipe is more like r600/nouveau (since almost everything but the actual code generation step is essentially shared) than swrast was like intel (where you'd basically never hit software fallbacks, so how do you have any idea how well the software path works). It works shockingly well, though I don't have it working to the point where performance numbers are appropriate. But as a back of the envelope kind of estimate, we're hoping 10x7 or 12x10 in a VM on a modern machine should be entirely usable. Again: not working, don't quote me, etc. - ajax -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: F15 alpha problem.
On 16/03/11 17:09, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Wed, 2011-03-16 at 11:51 -0400, James Laska wrote: >> On Wed, 2011-03-16 at 14:19 +0100, Erik P. Olsen wrote: >>> On 16/03/11 12:30, James Laska wrote: On Wed, 2011-03-16 at 12:09 +0100, Erik P. Olsen wrote: > I've just installed F15 alpha in a virtualbox machine and at the first > boot I > get a gnome 3 error explaining that it can't be fully initialised because > 3D is > not supported. I don't know if this is the cause to my problem, which is: GNOME3 is not expected to work in virtualized environments where hardware accelerated graphics are not available. >>> >>> A side question, does this mean that gnome3 requires hardware accelerated >>> graphics? >> >> Yes. > > No. =) > > It's kind of a definition issue. GNOME *Shell* requires acceleration. > But technically GNOME 3 does not; the fallback interface is still > considered to be 'GNOME 3'. So you do need acceleration to get the Shell > interface that's the 'big new thing' in GNOME 3, but still, if you don't > have acceleration and you get the fallback interface instead, what > you're running is still GNOME 3. Just GNOME 3's fallback interface. Hm, which graphics hardware should I choose that is well supported? -- Erik -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: F15 alpha problem.
On Wed, 2011-03-16 at 12:13 -0400, Adam Jackson wrote: > On 3/16/11 7:30 AM, James Laska wrote: > > On Wed, 2011-03-16 at 12:09 +0100, Erik P. Olsen wrote: > >> I've just installed F15 alpha in a virtualbox machine and at the first > >> boot I > >> get a gnome 3 error explaining that it can't be fully initialised because > >> 3D is > >> not supported. I don't know if this is the cause to my problem, which is: > > > > GNOME3 is not expected to work in virtualized environments where > > hardware accelerated graphics are not available. > > ... yet. I've made a modest amount of progress to getting it running on > the software GL stack, and I'm hoping to land the changes for that > before the beta change deadline on the 29th. I've gotten it from > "mutter crashes instantly" to "shell looks fine, windows don't paint > correctly", but I'm still a fair way from having it totally working. > > I have no idea what the UI for this will look like once it's working, or > even if I'll have it working in time. But I'm hoping it'll work as a > tactical measure until we have a sane virt 3d story. Cool! Is that llvmpipe? Also, on that last note, we should clarify that right now Shell doesn't work even in virtualized environments where accelerated graphics *are* available, e.g. VirtualBox with appropriate hardware and drivers. In theory it should be possible to make this work, but in practice it currently doesn't. So there's two angles we can approach this from; make Shell run with software GL, or fix up Shell to work with virtualized graphics acceleration passthrough. But it's not at all guaranteed that we'll manage either in time for f15. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: F15 alpha problem.
On 3/16/11 7:30 AM, James Laska wrote: > On Wed, 2011-03-16 at 12:09 +0100, Erik P. Olsen wrote: >> I've just installed F15 alpha in a virtualbox machine and at the first boot I >> get a gnome 3 error explaining that it can't be fully initialised because 3D >> is >> not supported. I don't know if this is the cause to my problem, which is: > > GNOME3 is not expected to work in virtualized environments where > hardware accelerated graphics are not available. ... yet. I've made a modest amount of progress to getting it running on the software GL stack, and I'm hoping to land the changes for that before the beta change deadline on the 29th. I've gotten it from "mutter crashes instantly" to "shell looks fine, windows don't paint correctly", but I'm still a fair way from having it totally working. I have no idea what the UI for this will look like once it's working, or even if I'll have it working in time. But I'm hoping it'll work as a tactical measure until we have a sane virt 3d story. - ajax -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: F15 alpha problem.
On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 12:09 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Wed, 2011-03-16 at 11:51 -0400, James Laska wrote: > > > A side question, does this mean that gnome3 requires hardware > accelerated graphics? > > > > Yes. > > No. =) > > It's kind of a definition issue. GNOME *Shell* requires acceleration. > But technically GNOME 3 does not; the fallback interface is still > considered to be 'GNOME 3'. So you do need acceleration to get the Shell > interface that's the 'big new thing' in GNOME 3, but still, if you don't > have acceleration and you get the fallback interface instead, what > you're running is still GNOME 3. Just GNOME 3's fallback interface. > In any case, VBox with 3d accelleration enables and 128MB for video memory is not sufficient for GShell. (VBox 4.0.4) -- G.Wolfe Woodbury aka redwolfe (proventesters) -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: F15 alpha problem.
On Wed, 2011-03-16 at 11:51 -0400, James Laska wrote: > On Wed, 2011-03-16 at 14:19 +0100, Erik P. Olsen wrote: > > On 16/03/11 12:30, James Laska wrote: > > > On Wed, 2011-03-16 at 12:09 +0100, Erik P. Olsen wrote: > > >> I've just installed F15 alpha in a virtualbox machine and at the first > > >> boot I > > >> get a gnome 3 error explaining that it can't be fully initialised > > >> because 3D is > > >> not supported. I don't know if this is the cause to my problem, which is: > > > > > > GNOME3 is not expected to work in virtualized environments where > > > hardware accelerated graphics are not available. > > > > A side question, does this mean that gnome3 requires hardware accelerated > > graphics? > > Yes. No. =) It's kind of a definition issue. GNOME *Shell* requires acceleration. But technically GNOME 3 does not; the fallback interface is still considered to be 'GNOME 3'. So you do need acceleration to get the Shell interface that's the 'big new thing' in GNOME 3, but still, if you don't have acceleration and you get the fallback interface instead, what you're running is still GNOME 3. Just GNOME 3's fallback interface. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: F15 alpha problem.
On Wed, 2011-03-16 at 14:19 +0100, Erik P. Olsen wrote: > On 16/03/11 12:30, James Laska wrote: > > On Wed, 2011-03-16 at 12:09 +0100, Erik P. Olsen wrote: > >> I've just installed F15 alpha in a virtualbox machine and at the first > >> boot I > >> get a gnome 3 error explaining that it can't be fully initialised because > >> 3D is > >> not supported. I don't know if this is the cause to my problem, which is: > > > > GNOME3 is not expected to work in virtualized environments where > > hardware accelerated graphics are not available. > > A side question, does this mean that gnome3 requires hardware accelerated > graphics? Yes. From http://gnome3.org/faq.html ... The GNOME 3 desktop does require hardware accelerated graphics in order to provide a cutting-edge experience however, and the complete GNOME 3 experience will only be available on computers capable of this. Do not worry though: GNOME 3 will come complete with a fallback interface which will provide an excellent experience in the absence of hardware acceleration, and which incorporates many of the improvements that can be found in GNOME 3. > >> I add a launcher (mc) to the panel and when I click on it nothing happens. > >> I > >> can't even shut the system down, I have to power off. Now after booting > >> again > >> the system behaves normally, I can launch mc without problems. But when I > >> add > >> another launcher to the panel same thing happens, I have to power off and > >> reboot > >> to activate the panel launchers. Is this a known problem? > > > > First, make sure your system is fully updated. Good news, it sounds > > like you have a fairly consistent reproducer. Can you start a terminal > > and attempt to run mc (or any newly added launcher)? Do any errors > > present in $HOME/.xsession-errors when you experience the problem? > > It is fully updated and there are lots of messages in .xsession-errors but I > don't understand them :-( Heh ... neither do most people (myself included). You are basically looking for anything near the bottom that might look *somewhat* related to icons or .desktop files. Thanks, James signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: F15 alpha problem.
On 16/03/11 12:30, James Laska wrote: > On Wed, 2011-03-16 at 12:09 +0100, Erik P. Olsen wrote: >> I've just installed F15 alpha in a virtualbox machine and at the first boot I >> get a gnome 3 error explaining that it can't be fully initialised because 3D >> is >> not supported. I don't know if this is the cause to my problem, which is: > > GNOME3 is not expected to work in virtualized environments where > hardware accelerated graphics are not available. A side question, does this mean that gnome3 requires hardware accelerated graphics? > >> I add a launcher (mc) to the panel and when I click on it nothing happens. I >> can't even shut the system down, I have to power off. Now after booting again >> the system behaves normally, I can launch mc without problems. But when I add >> another launcher to the panel same thing happens, I have to power off and >> reboot >> to activate the panel launchers. Is this a known problem? > > First, make sure your system is fully updated. Good news, it sounds > like you have a fairly consistent reproducer. Can you start a terminal > and attempt to run mc (or any newly added launcher)? Do any errors > present in $HOME/.xsession-errors when you experience the problem? It is fully updated and there are lots of messages in .xsession-errors but I don't understand them :-( -- Erik -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
Re: F15 alpha problem.
On Wed, 2011-03-16 at 12:09 +0100, Erik P. Olsen wrote: > I've just installed F15 alpha in a virtualbox machine and at the first boot I > get a gnome 3 error explaining that it can't be fully initialised because 3D > is > not supported. I don't know if this is the cause to my problem, which is: GNOME3 is not expected to work in virtualized environments where hardware accelerated graphics are not available. > I add a launcher (mc) to the panel and when I click on it nothing happens. I > can't even shut the system down, I have to power off. Now after booting again > the system behaves normally, I can launch mc without problems. But when I add > another launcher to the panel same thing happens, I have to power off and > reboot > to activate the panel launchers. Is this a known problem? First, make sure your system is fully updated. Good news, it sounds like you have a fairly consistent reproducer. Can you start a terminal and attempt to run mc (or any newly added launcher)? Do any errors present in $HOME/.xsession-errors when you experience the problem? Thanks, James signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
F15 alpha problem.
I've just installed F15 alpha in a virtualbox machine and at the first boot I get a gnome 3 error explaining that it can't be fully initialised because 3D is not supported. I don't know if this is the cause to my problem, which is: I add a launcher (mc) to the panel and when I click on it nothing happens. I can't even shut the system down, I have to power off. Now after booting again the system behaves normally, I can launch mc without problems. But when I add another launcher to the panel same thing happens, I have to power off and reboot to activate the panel launchers. Is this a known problem? -- Erik -- test mailing list test@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
