RE: [Texascavers] RE: Music in Caves

[RD Milhollin]

Of Course Tony Levin Rocks.

I thought that jazz flautist Paul Horn had recorded one of his "Inside"
albums in a cave, but I cannot find any evidence of that through the net. He
isn't dead yet, maybe he could be coaxed into doing so at CWAN or another
suitably acoustic cavern. The "Inside the Great Pyramid" and ..."Taj Mahal"
recordings are pretty cool, wonder how he would do in a cave? Maybe the Lake
of the Clouds Room in Carlsbad...

  

-Original Message-
From: Chris Vreeland [mailto:cvreel...@austin.rr.com] 
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 3:52 PM
To: List: TexasCavers
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] RE: Music in Caves

Speaking of music in caves, Tony Levin (the world's greatest bass  
player, if you ask me, or even if you didn't) recorded an album called  
 From the Caves of Iron Mountain, though after reading the scant notes  
here: http://www.tonylevin.com/store/store.html (It's about the 8th  
item down the page) you can see that it was actually recorded in a  
mine. Lots of non-caver-types fail to make the distinction between  
caves & mines, but anyway that's a digression. The album was recorded  
live, underground, in a hollowed out chamber. I haven't heard it, but  
judging by the calibre of the players (All A-list session guys who've  
worked with King Crimson, Steely Dan, Peter Gabriel, etc.) I'd imagine  
it's worth a listen.

CV

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RE: [ot_caving] Re: [Texascavers] RE: Music in Caves

[RD Milhollin]

Naaa, it was Patrick O'Hearn.

 

I was working off a mobile e-mail platform and didn't have access to the web
when I posted before, but O'Hearn was the bass player for the "Zoot Alures"
Zappa Band as well as for Missing Persons later. The 2008 Dallas performance
of Dweezel's "Zappa Plays Zappa" tour opened with the title track. Here is a
link to a P. O'Hearn Bio:

 

http://www.musicianguide.com/biographies/1608003520/Patrick-O-39-Hearn.html

 

Oh. The studio, it is apparently Deep Cave Studio (or records) and is in Bat
Cave, NC.

 

http://www.epinions.com/content_119979675268

 

I gather that this period in O'Hearn's career is over, but perhaps he has
some residual interest in caves,  perhaps he would be willing to perform in
a cave for some regional gathering of cavers. I don't think the music he
produces today would be likely to (literally) "bring the house down."

 

  _  

From: Don Cooper [mailto:wavyca...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 6:36 PM
To: rdmilhol...@charter.net
Cc: Minton, Mark; o...@texascavers.com
Subject: [ot_caving] Re: [Texascavers] RE: Music in Caves

 

Ah yes, that would have been Don Van Vliet - otherwise known as "Captain
Beefheart".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Beefheart
They recorded "Bongo Fury" in 1976 right here in Austin at the World
Armadillo Headquarters.
-WaV

On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 2:13 PM, RD Milhollin 
wrote:

Definitely Wakemen, sans Yes. The album was recorded live, with a full
orchestra if I remember correctly. I seem to remember he set out on a tour
with the whole ensemble, but the costs were too great and it ended before
schedule. 

 

Unrelated, I seem to have a foggy memory about a former sideman of Zappa,
from the Bongo Fury (recorded in Austin, center of .) days who after going
solo concentrated on mood music and established Cave Records somewhere in
NC. This is a stretch, but I think his studio was in a real cave. 

 

  _  

From: Minton, Mark [mailto:mmin...@nmhu.edu] 
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 4:42 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] RE: Music in Caves

 

Gill,

 

>The musical bill-of-fare was Jethro Tull's "Journey to the Center of the
Earth"

 

  I was a big Jethro Tull fan, but I've never heard of that one.
Neither has  and
.  Maybe it was someone
else?  Rick Wakeman of Yes had an album by that name.

 

Mark Minton

 

[Texascavers] [TSA Landfund Idea]

[Don Arburn]

Kicking around another idea for the dispensation of TSA Landfund  
monies...


Recently I spoke with Gustavo Vela-Turcott of Mexico, he was a member  
of a recent trip to Krubera. The only North American to go. He wants  
to go back, but needs sponsors. While not a TSA member per se, perhaps  
he could be an honorary member and get some financial help for his  
trip with the TSA as a sponsor.


Just an idea to make a tiny bit of the money do something really cool.

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[Texascavers] Wikipedia and St. Pauls Cave

[John P. Brooks]

Here is one that you missed David. It has a wikipedia page also. But the
UNESCO page has more information.

http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/652/

I visited this while I was in the Philippines in June. It is quite
spectacular and a very fun tour. You take a banca across a bay on the south
China Sea to the entrance. Then walk through the jungle and see large
monitor lizards. The tour is conducted in mostly Tagalog with a few english
words tossed inand from the laughs of my two traveling companions...the
narrative was very colorful. I was able to understand "Texas
sized".while the guide shown a light on a large stalagmite.
After the tour, I talked to the guides that spoke english. They reported
that the river is navigable to a rock slide around 4.5 kilometers into the
cave. But the tour only goes about a kilometer. You do pass through some
very large chambers.and in a very spots...tantalizing black holes could
be seen high up on the walls. There weren't any obvious infeeders...and the
guides said that there are not any tributaries that enter the cave..but
there was a lot more water coming out of the entrancethan was going in
at the insurgence. I asked the guides if it was possible to make a through
trip...and I got several different answers.but later talked to a guide
who helped explore the cave. And he said a breakdown pile can be reached
from both sides...but it was not possible to find the way around.
After our tour; we walked back to Sabang on a trail called the "Monkey
Trail". Its a wooden walkway that climbs up and over the spectacular tower
karst that surrounds the underground river. It seemed like there were caves
and pits everywhere. Or at least enough to keep a few cavers occupied for a
couple of days. After the tower karst the trail wound through the jungle to
several isolated crescent shaped coves...where you could see coral reefs
just below the surface of the ocean. Swimming was not permitted due to the
coral...but we finally found a beach and took a swim.
As we approached Sabangwe had to wade across the discharge from the
mangrove swamp as it flowed out into the sea.and I was stunned by how
much water was coming out of the swamp. The fresh water discharged from the
swamp was much greater than the subterranean river appeared to be..later
that day, we toured the mangrove swamp. And we passed several openings that
appeared to be caves where the swamp came up to the karst.our guides
were not aware of anyone ever entering these entrances. I asked where the
fresh water came from...and was told that there are several large
springs...but the tour did not get close enough to see these.
We spent several more days in Sabang enjoying the beach and snorkeling on
the coral reefs. And we heard that there are numerous large pits and caves
up in the mountains.but it was a three day round trip hike just to get
up there..There are also several other wild caves that you can
tour.and some areas of amazing tower karst surrounded by rice patties.
Of course those rice patties were once mangrove forests.
We also met the Mayor of Puerto Princesahe has been very instrumental in
getting the National Park established and getting UNESCO recognition for the
Subterranean River...He asked me "when can you come back and see the
other caves?"


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[ot_caving] Re: [Texascavers] RE: Music in Caves

[Don Cooper]

Ah yes, that would have been Don Van Vliet - otherwise known as "Captain
Beefheart".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Beefheart
They recorded "Bongo Fury" in 1976 right here in Austin at the World
Armadillo Headquarters.
-WaV

On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 2:13 PM, RD Milhollin 
wrote:

>  Definitely Wakemen, sans Yes. The album was recorded live, with a full
> orchestra if I remember correctly. I seem to remember he set out on a tour
> with the whole ensemble, but the costs were too great and it ended before
> schedule.
>
>
>
> Unrelated, I seem to have a foggy memory about a former sideman of Zappa,
> from the Bongo Fury (recorded in Austin, center of …) days who after going
> solo concentrated on mood music and established Cave Records somewhere in
> NC. This is a stretch, but I think his studio was in a real cave.
>
>
>  --
>
> *From:* Minton, Mark [mailto:mmin...@nmhu.edu]
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 10, 2008 4:42 PM
> *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com
> *Subject:* [Texascavers] RE: Music in Caves
>
>
>
> Gill,
>
>
>
> >The musical bill-of-fare was Jethro Tull's "Journey to the Center of the
> Earth"
>
>
>
>   I was a big Jethro Tull fan, but I've never heard of that one.
> Neither has  and <
> http://remus.rutgers.edu/JethroTull/disco.html>.  Maybe it was someone
> else?  Rick Wakeman of Yes had an album by that name.
>
>
>
> Mark Minton
>

Re: [Texascavers] RE: Music in Caves

[Chris Vreeland]

Speaking of music in caves, Tony Levin (the world's greatest bass  
player, if you ask me, or even if you didn't) recorded an album called  
From the Caves of Iron Mountain, though after reading the scant notes  
here: http://www.tonylevin.com/store/store.html (It's about the 8th  
item down the page) you can see that it was actually recorded in a  
mine. Lots of non-caver-types fail to make the distinction between  
caves & mines, but anyway that's a digression. The album was recorded  
live, underground, in a hollowed out chamber. I haven't heard it, but  
judging by the calibre of the players (All A-list session guys who've  
worked with King Crimson, Steely Dan, Peter Gabriel, etc.) I'd imagine  
it's worth a listen.


CV

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Re: [Texascavers] Music in Caves

[John P. Brooks]

There is a hotel built in a lava tube in the canary islands as wellthe
pool is in a large sinkhole. And adjoining sinkholes have restaurants in
them. Of course the public spaces and corridors run through the lava tubes.
And I think the rooms are "built" in smaller sinkholes. It is quite a famous
resort boutique type hotel.
The hotel was "built" back in the 60s or early 70s...and was designed by a
famous french painter and sculptor...although I don't remember his name at
the moment. An article on the hotel appeared in the New York Times
magazine...sometime last year.

On 7/12/08 1:26 PM, "RD Milhollin"  wrote:

> I was along as a "safety diver" with a well-known cave scientist, actually a
> respected Texas biologist, actually Texas A&M's own Tom Iliffe, several
> years back on a trip to the Atlantic Island of Lanzarotte in the Canary
> Islands. The cave he was sampling in is a huge lava tube that plunges from a
> volcano in the middle of the island down to the coast and then under the
> seabed. Before the tube encounters the coast the government established a
> unique national park called the Jameos del Agua, encompassing three major
> sinkholes. One was the entrance to a part of the tube used as a concert
> hall, one was whitewashed and embellished by a famous local artist, and the
> one closest to the sea was the entrance to a large nightclub-restaurant. The
> last two were of course connected by the lava tube, and this passage was
> home to a very rare shrimp. People could pass through the tunnel on a
> walkway, leaving the heat and glare of the outside for the cool
> semi-twilight of the cave. Signs in several languages begged tourists not to
> throw coins into the water, but can guess what the result of that was.
> 
> The first time I went in there something about the place was suddenly
> strange but familiar. It took several minutes to realize that the cave had a
> soundtrack, and that was the familiar part. The music itself is strange...
> "Ambient One: Music For Airports" by Brian Eno. Very cool!
> 
> 
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
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RE: [Texascavers] Explore a cave?

[RD Milhollin]

Not quite under a river, but under a pool...

There is a small, gnarly vertically-oriented crawl underneath the terminal
pool at Harrell's Cave in San Saba Co. I am sure that when the pool fills
the water spills over into the passage and drains away, so it is probably
not always air-filled. 

-Original Message-
From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 8:40 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Explore a cave?

Is this your definition of "explore a cave?"

http://www.bestsyndication.com/?q=20080611_mammoth_cave_exploration.htm


The article briefly describes 7 commercial caves - 2 of which have expensive
off-trail tours led by guides.

You have to give the author credit though.

How often do you read the phrase:

"advanced spelunking"

in the public media.

or the phrase:

 "utter darkness?"


How many of you have been in a cave that is:

"located under a river?"



Do "crystals" in caves really take a "millions years to shape and
develop"?( dogtooth spar - for example ) I guess she just means
the whole conglomerate of crystals and not an individual crystal
by itself.

   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spar_(mineralogy)


The article was written for its intended audience - non-cavers who
are looking for something new to do if planning a vacation.   So I will give
some kudos to the author, Shari Hearn for her effort to get a little
deeper into the topic than most travel writers do.

I just wonder how many caves she actually went in to write
the article. It sounded like she went in 2 or 3 and really liked it.

David Locklear

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RE: [Texascavers] Music in Caves

[RD Milhollin]

I was along as a "safety diver" with a well-known cave scientist, actually a
respected Texas biologist, actually Texas A&M's own Tom Iliffe, several
years back on a trip to the Atlantic Island of Lanzarotte in the Canary
Islands. The cave he was sampling in is a huge lava tube that plunges from a
volcano in the middle of the island down to the coast and then under the
seabed. Before the tube encounters the coast the government established a
unique national park called the Jameos del Agua, encompassing three major
sinkholes. One was the entrance to a part of the tube used as a concert
hall, one was whitewashed and embellished by a famous local artist, and the
one closest to the sea was the entrance to a large nightclub-restaurant. The
last two were of course connected by the lava tube, and this passage was
home to a very rare shrimp. People could pass through the tunnel on a
walkway, leaving the heat and glare of the outside for the cool
semi-twilight of the cave. Signs in several languages begged tourists not to
throw coins into the water, but can guess what the result of that was. 

The first time I went in there something about the place was suddenly
strange but familiar. It took several minutes to realize that the cave had a
soundtrack, and that was the familiar part. The music itself is strange...
"Ambient One: Music For Airports" by Brian Eno. Very cool! 


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RE: [Texascavers] RE: Music in Caves

[RD Milhollin]

Definitely Wakemen, sans Yes. The album was recorded live, with a full
orchestra if I remember correctly. I seem to remember he set out on a tour
with the whole ensemble, but the costs were too great and it ended before
schedule. 

 

Unrelated, I seem to have a foggy memory about a former sideman of Zappa,
from the Bongo Fury (recorded in Austin, center of .) days who after going
solo concentrated on mood music and established Cave Records somewhere in
NC. This is a stretch, but I think his studio was in a real cave. 

 

  _  

From: Minton, Mark [mailto:mmin...@nmhu.edu] 
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 4:42 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] RE: Music in Caves

 

Gill,

 

>The musical bill-of-fare was Jethro Tull's "Journey to the Center of the
Earth"

 

  I was a big Jethro Tull fan, but I've never heard of that one.
Neither has  and
.  Maybe it was someone
else?  Rick Wakeman of Yes had an album by that name.

 

Mark Minton

Re: [Texascavers] Journey to the Center of the Earth

[Mark Alman]

I just watched Channel 8 (WFAA) news here in Dallas this AM.
They're an ABC affiliate, FWIW.
Anyhoo, their movie critic, Gary Cogill, a guy I've enjoyed for years and whose 
reviews I tend to agree with rated the movie, and I quote, "Unwatchable".
Not exactly a ringing endorsement.
Guess I'll be saving my $$ for a couple of gallons of gas, if I'm lucky.
Later,
Mark A.



- Original Message 
From: Alex Sproul 
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 9:01:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Journey to the Center of the Earth


Dang.  I hate it when my digested list leaves me a full day behind on a hot 
topic! 

Alex 

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Re: [Texascavers] Before the Deluge

[Nancy Weaver]

 A popular theory of speleogenesis in the seventeenth and 
eighteenth centuries was that caves were eroded when the water of 
the flood came from within the earth and/or when it drained back 
into it.


If one isnt utterly literal - that explanation would certainly jibe 
with my understanding of speleogenesis.


Most caves are formed below the water and emerge when the water 
levels go down.  Just as the story of creation (if one can get over 
'knowing' what is meant by a day) would seem to accurately reflect 
the current geologic/biologic understanding of the order of creation. 
Einstein famously said that if one thoroughly understands their field 
of expertise, they can explain it to a 5 year old child.  Might be 
interesting for us to see if we can describe what we 'know to be 
true' in terms easily grasped by a 5 year old. Might bear a startling 
resemblance to some creation stories that we are dismissive of . . .


Nance

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[ot_caving] More NGV

[quinta]

I know this is a carbon problem but it is less oil used. The last one is in 
Nigeria so who knows if it will happen or just be bombed.

Quinta

  Market Developments  
  Sourced NGV Global 
  Friday, 04 July 2008 00:00  
  Germany, Mannheim
 


New building for two additional vehicle models opened on July 4, 2008
E and B-Class, Sprinter and Econic all fitted with natural-gas engine

Mercedes-Benz centre of competence for emissions-free commercial vehicles 
(known by its German acronym of 'KEN') has been expanded to become the 
Mercedes-Benz Production Competence Centre for Natural Gas Drive. With the 
formal opening of the new building, the company can push ahead with its aim of 
positioning natural gas powered vehicles in all segments. When it was first 
established in October 1994, KEN was part of the Commercial Vehicles division. 
Since 2002 the centre has been part of the Vans division, as the largest 
projects from that time onwards involved vans. At that time the predecessor of 
today's Sprinter was manufactured there with a monovalent natural-gas engine.

The E-Class and the Econic are already being fitted with natural-gas engines at 
the Mannheim plant. With the opening of the new facility, they will be joined 
by the Sprinter and the B-Class. There is an impressively wide variety of 
models: up to 16 natural-gas variants of the Mercedes Sprinter, for example, 
will be available from the Mercedes-Benz Production Competence Centre for 
Natural Gas Drive. in Mannheim.

A gas-powered vehicle combines the benefits of environmental protection with 
efficiency and practicality. The advantages include a considerable reduction in 
emissions and noise, substantially lower maintenance costs and a large range 
when used in combination with the conventional engine.

The customer-driven concept of KEN is reflected in unit sales, which have grown 
exponentially since 1994. In 2003, 300 vehicles were sold while the planned 
figure for 2008 is 5,000, and the trend is upward.

Sourced NGV Global
Wednesday, 09 July 2008 00:00 
Argentina & Pakistan
Cylinder manufacturer Inflex Argentoil SA has announced the formation of a JV 
with the Pakistani WAH industries to produce CNG cylinders for natural gas 
vehicles. Argentoil is to take 51% stake in the new venture. Inflex has more 
than forty years´ experience in the manufacturing of cylinders and has sold 
more than four million cylinders with no accidents reported. WAH industries is 
a member of the government run POF industrial complex in Pakistan and owns 
several plants with about fifty thousand employees. The new facility will be 
set up in Pakistan and is expected to manufacture 260,000 cylinders a year. 
This output will cover Pakistan domestic cylinder needs. The investment will 
require about $US20 Million dollars and will be financed by local banking 
institutions.

  Sourced NGV Global 
  Wednesday, 02 July 2008 00:00  
  Nigeria, Lagos

  Local NGV industry association to be formed

  Prospects for natural gas vehicles (NGV) in Nigeria have increased 
following the success of a conference on the issue held in the country last 
week. Outcomes of the conference included a commitment to form a local natural 
gas vehicle industry association, to be formed with the backing of the Nigerian 
Energy Ministry. Speaking from Nigeria, IANGV president, Rich Kolodziej, called 
on the Federal Government to make NGV ownership and use, economically 
attractive by making it easy for private sector participation. "The situation 
in every country is different. No two countries are the same, but any challenge 
faced by one country has been successfully dealt with in another country. I 
urge you to learn from the experience of others," he said. 

  Nigeria currently flares about 900 billion cubic feet per year of 
associated gas.  The government, however, is committed to capturing an 
increasing amount of that gas.  Some will be liquefied and exported, but much 
of it could be used domestically for power generation and to power vehicles.  " 
Because Nigeria does not have sufficient refining capacity, it must import 
petrol and diesel fuel at world prices," Kolodziej said.  "It costs the 
Nigerian treasury the equivalent of about US$6 million per day to subsidize 
that fuel.  By switching to NGVs, that money could be saved - and it would help 
reduce air pollution in the major cities."

  The natural gas vehicle industry in Nigeria is currently in the 
pioneering stage.  The Nigerian Gas Company (NGC) has successfully converted 52 
vehicles to use natural gas. NGC is also responsible for issuing licenses and 
has so far certified three companies to provide CNG in Lagos, Benin and Abuja