[Texascavers] White-nose syndrome related

[David]

I think someone needs to create an e-mail listserve just for WNS, if
one has not been
created yet.

There are already almost a dozen Facebook Group pages:

http://www.facebook.com/search/?q=White+Nose+Syndrome&init=quick#!/group.php?gid=76877359038&ref=search&sid=1818118612.3343839725..1

http://www.facebook.com/search/?q=White+Nose+Syndrome&init=quick#!/group.php?gid=28654570863&ref=search&sid=1818118612.3343839725..1

http://www.facebook.com/search/?q=White+Nose+Syndrome&init=quick#!/group.php?gid=161283960340&ref=search&sid=1818118612.3343839725..1

http://www.facebook.com/search/?q=White+Nose+Syndrome&init=quick#!/pages/white-nose-syndrome-nwco-task-force/233516848603?ref=search&sid=1818118612.3343839725..1

http://www.facebook.com/search/?q=White+Nose+Syndrome&init=quick#!/pages/Go-Baty-About-White-Nose-Syndrome-wns/302684404728?ref=search&sid=1818118612.3343839725..1

http://www.facebook.com/search/?flt=1&q=White+Nose+Syndrome&o=69&sid=1818118612.3343839725..1&s=10#!/group.php?gid=86565889221&ref=search&sid=1818118612.3343839725..1

And the radical one:

http://www.facebook.com/search/?flt=1&q=White+Nose+Syndrome&o=69&sid=1818118612.3343839725..1&s=10#!/group.php?gid=57981204165&ref=search&sid=1818118612.3343839725..1

Most of the WNS news and news archives can be found at:

http://www.caves.org/grotto/dcg/white-nose.html

WNS on Google, gets 382,000 hits.

WNS on Google News gets 88 hits.

With similar results from other search engines.

And BCI has WNS info.

http://www.batcon.org/index.php/what-we-do/white-nose-syndrome.html

Apparently money donated to BCI is given a high priority to WNS research.

http://www.batcon.org/index.php/support-bci/make-a-donation.html?title=White-nose%20Syndrome&specialCode=WNS

In summary,

I don't think everything WNS related needs to be posted on Cavetex.
Of course, major WNS announcements
affecting all Texas cavers should be posted.Unfortunately, nearly
every new announcement seems to be such
a serious concern, that it is hard to draw the line on whether or not
to post something new about WNS.

David Locklear
caver in Fort Bend County

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Re: [PBSS] 5 Mouth

[Herman Miller]

and of course I never have the weekends off

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 9:45 PM, Sharon Long wrote:

> Not tired. Just worried about icy/snowy roads. There seems to be a lot of
> that up here. :)
>
> --- On *Wed, 2/24/10, Jon Hancock * wrote:
>
>
> From: Jon Hancock 
>
> Subject: Re: [PBSS] 5 Mouth
> To: "'jlrbi...@sonoratx.net'" , "'p...@caver.net'"
> , "'dirtm...@angelo.edu'" 
> Date: Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 8:11 AM
>
>
> Looks like everyone is tired of digging.haha
>
> - Original Message -
> From: 
> pbss-boun...@caver.net<
> pbss-boun...@caver.net
> >
> To: 
> p...@caver.net<
> p...@caver.net>;
> Dirtmail 
> http://us.mc1136.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dirtm...@angelo.edu>
> >
> Sent: Wed Feb 24 08:11:04 2010
> Subject: [PBSS] 5 Mouth
>
> All,
> So far I have no one to go except me. Lori, no; ASU, no; Bill, maybe "no,"
> haven't heard from anyone else.
>
> If I cancel I need to call Doc and Jeryl today.
>
> Looking like cancelling is the best idea. Jacqui
>
>
> ___
> PBSS mailing list
> p...@caver.net
> http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/pbss_caver.net
>
> ___
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> p...@caver.net
> http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/pbss_caver.net
>
>
>
> ___
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> p...@caver.net
> http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/pbss_caver.net
>
>
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Re: [PBSS] 5 Mouth

[Sharon Long]

Not tired. Just worried about icy/snowy roads. There seems to be a lot of that 
up here. :)

--- On Wed, 2/24/10, Jon Hancock  wrote:


From: Jon Hancock 
Subject: Re: [PBSS] 5 Mouth
To: "'jlrbi...@sonoratx.net'" , "'p...@caver.net'" 
, "'dirtm...@angelo.edu'" 
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 8:11 AM


Looks like everyone is tired of digging.haha

- Original Message -
From: pbss-boun...@caver.net 
To: p...@caver.net ; Dirtmail 
Sent: Wed Feb 24 08:11:04 2010
Subject: [PBSS] 5 Mouth

All,
So far I have no one to go except me. Lori, no; ASU, no; Bill, maybe "no," 
haven't heard from anyone else.

If I cancel I need to call Doc and Jeryl today.

Looking like cancelling is the best idea. Jacqui 


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http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/pbss_caver.net



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[Texascavers] Cedar Choppin & Kiwi Sink dig

[Gill Edigar]

I'm gonna be having a cedar chopping and cave digging party this weekend
(Saturday & Sunday) at my land in Rolling Oaks--700 Billie Brooks. Next door
to Ernie Garza & Gluesenkamp; across the back creek from Terry Raines. We're
gonna be cutting and chipping cedar and digging in Kiwi Sink. Those with
chain saws should bring um. Those without saws can feed the chippers--no
experience necessary. Everybody should wear boots, bring gloves, ear plugs
or head sets, long sleeved shirts. We'll have some meat on the cooker and
some other fixins. Come prepared to sit around a campfire and camp if you
can spend the night. Dogs and kids non-working family members are all OK but
they may need herders to be kept them at a safe distance from the work in
progress. If you can't make it to work but just want to camp that's OK too.
There's plenty of cedar to cut.
--Ediger

[Texascavers] Cave Rescue Training in Austin Texas

[DJ Walker]

All,

Cave rescues are few and far between in the Austin area, but they do  
happen. As was highlighted during the Airmans event, these situations  
often require the combine efforts of rescue agencies and the caving  
community alike. In an effort to increase the working relationship  
between these two groups the Austin Fire Department will be conducting  
two joint cave rescue trainings in March.


Three days at Whirlpool cave March 9, 10, & 11, 2010 --1:30 PM - 7:00 PM
This training will be a one day class held three consecutive days (you  
would only need to attend one day). Topics covered will include:

Cave environment (for new rescuers)
Searching a cave for a lost person
Litter handling
Communications
Incident Command
The day will end with a Mock Rescue

Three days at Midnight cave March 23, 24, & 25, 2010 -- 1:30 PM - 7:00  
PM
This training will be a one day class held three consecutive days (you  
would only need to attend one day). This will be a vertical rescue  
exercise giving participants the opportunity to participate in several  
evolutions raising and lowering, patients in litters, in and out of  
Midnight cave.


There will be 10 slots for each day. Slots will be first come first  
serve. If you plan to attend, please e-mail Tommy Gillis: tommy.gil...@ci.austin.tx.us 
 and let him know which day you will be there.


Additionally, we hope to have a video posted on the web soon. It will  
cover various cave rescue topics and would be the primer for the above  
class or an opportunity to get a glimpse of the training for those who  
cannot attend. We wanted to get the above dates out for everyone to  
make plans and will get the video out when and if we can.


Stay Safe,
DJ

DJ Walker
PO Box 90146
Austin, TX 78709
512-751-6010
dj.wal...@mac.com

Re: Fw: [Texascavers] Nico sez: they dont just practice their marksmanship shooting live targets

[Charles Goldsmith]

actually, the rules don't discuss that at all, just says don't flame,
don't post your whole catalog to the list if you are selling
something, no attachments and watch about replying to all or cc'ing
the list on personal emails.

I guess I could add more rules about OT and language, but I'd rather
the masses just do the policing.  Maybe a posting about that, dunno,
I'll think on it.

Sleaze replied to me, apologizing for not wording things
appropriately.  My guess is that alcohol or other mind altering things
are behind some of his postings.  Personally, I like his stories.


On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 2:28 PM, Bill Bentley  wrote:
> I dunno... Texacavers seems to be busy  as of late .. not all cave related
> either...
> Maybe a general reminder of the basic rules, make me wonder if some even
> read that page?...
>
> Remind them that children, educators, government officials, and landowners
> are also subscribed to the lists...
>
> Most people tend to say "Well, it don't bother me", but I am scared to think
> what some who subscribe and read thinks of us a group...True that the few
> don't represent the many, but you know how impressions can be made...
>
> As I always say better you than me. LOL
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
>
> - Original Message - From: "Charles Goldsmith"
> 
> To: "Bill Bentley" 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 1:54 PM
> Subject: Re: Fw: [Texascavers] Nico sez: they dont just practice their
> marksmanship shooting live targets
>
>
> LOL, you know that we always get the bad with the good on these lists.
> In the 4 years I've done this, I've only had 1 or 2 complains on
> Sleaze, but about 20 on David, and he rarely says anything that out of
> place.
>
> But I'll send him an email, that is out of place for most peoples taste.
>
> Thanks Bill
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Bill Bentley  wrote:
>>
>> This guy should be moderated!
>>
>> > hey, it’s an honored tradition, and besides, what right do we have to
>> question how others live? You might respond that not having your pussy cut
>> out or sown shut is a basic right. So is not getting shot>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: bmorgan...@aol.com
>> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 10:03 AM
>> Subject: [Texascavers] Nico sez: they dont just practice their
>> marksmanship
>> shooting live targets
>> One fine day not too far south of Juarez I was tootling along when I ran
>> into a checkpoint manned by a bunch of guys in orange jumpsuits who I
>> presumed to be Federales. They were massively armed with all sorts of high
>> powered automatic and semiautomatic rifles and pistols which they were
>> unloading like armageddon at a large number of whiskey and tequila bottles
>> lined up on the hillside by the road. From that and their staggering and
>> swaggering demeanor I quickly concluded that they were dead drunk and that
>> I
>> was soon to be dead, or at the very least relieved of some cash. Not to
>> worry though, for I had taken the precaution of bringing a suitable supply
>> of the universal solvent. No, not money, beer! When in Mexico I alway
>> carry
>> two coolers, one filled with good Mexican beer which I consume myself, and
>> one filled with Budweiser for the Feds. So when they started to rip apart
>> my
>> truck in search of whatever I simply directed them to look in cooler B.
>> There they found the very contraband they were looking for. Problem
>> solved!
>> And to think that some poor fools suppose that guns and alcohol don't mix!
>>
>> Since some folks like to poke snakes with a stick just to hear them rattle
>> (which is of course the exact moral equivalent of making batty patties),
>> so
>> I think I should be forgiven for my recent satyrical diatribe concerning
>> the
>> manhood and religious preferences of those who feel compelled to carry
>> guns.
>> Just for the record I do support the right of gun ownership for the
>> aforementioned reason that when guns are outlawed only soldiers, cops, and
>> criminals will have guns. The vast majority of my friends own guns, some
>> of
>> them own veritable arsenals, but all have the good judgement to be
>> slightly
>> abashed and thus keep their gun well hidden. In other words they are not
>> deranged cowboys. Don’t ask don’t tell works fine with me.
>>
>> The problem is that we are not as civilized as the Swiss. We celebrate
>> guns
>> and encourage their proliferation. Responsible concealed carry and home
>> protection weaponry aside, does any one really think it is a good idea for
>> inner city teenagers to have guns? More to the point is the recent ruling
>> that guns be permitted in National Parks. These places are supposed to be
>> sanctuaries. It is a plain fact that the presence of guns will increase
>> mayhem and impact wildlife. “I had to shoot the (fill in the blank with
>> snake, wolf, panther, person, etc.) cuz I felt threatened. That bat was
>> flying straight at me!”
>>
>> There are many toxic concepts, cultures, a

Re: [Texascavers] Nico sez: they dont just practice their marksmanship shoot

[Charles Goldsmith]

Hehe, thanks Sleaze, I try not to, most of the time its pretty good
about self policing :)

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 3:16 PM,   wrote:
> By the way, I think you do a great job of babysitting such a rowdy and
> diverse bunch of rabble!
>
> Sleaze

Re: [Texascavers] Nico sez: they dont just practice their marksmanship shoot

[BMorgan994]

By the way, I think you do a great job of babysitting such a rowdy and  
diverse bunch of rabble!
 
Sleaze

[Texascavers] Re: Hellhole WNS Update

[Mark Minton]

As most everyone knows by now, White Nose Syndrome was 
recently confirmed in Hellhole (Pendleton County, WV), which is a 
major hibernaculum for several kinds of bats including two endangered 
species.  There has been some confusion and misinformation about when 
people had previously visited Hellhole before last weekend's bat 
count.  It was September 1, 2007, not February, 2007 as originally 
stated.  A corrected report 
 has been 
posted on the NSS WNS page .  Please 
forward this information to interested parties who may have only seen 
the original post.  Thank you.


Mark Minton

Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 



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Re: Fw: [Texascavers] Nico sez: they dont just practice their marksmanship shooting live targets

[Bill Bentley]

I dunno... Texacavers seems to be busy  as of late .. not all cave related 
either...
Maybe a general reminder of the basic rules, make me wonder if some even 
read that page?...


Remind them that children, educators, government officials, and landowners 
are also subscribed to the lists...


Most people tend to say "Well, it don't bother me", but I am scared to think 
what some who subscribe and read thinks of us a group...True that the few 
don't represent the many, but you know how impressions can be made...


As I always say better you than me. LOL

Thanks,
Bill

- Original Message - 
From: "Charles Goldsmith" 

To: "Bill Bentley" 
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [Texascavers] Nico sez: they dont just practice their 
marksmanship shooting live targets



LOL, you know that we always get the bad with the good on these lists.
In the 4 years I've done this, I've only had 1 or 2 complains on
Sleaze, but about 20 on David, and he rarely says anything that out of
place.

But I'll send him an email, that is out of place for most peoples taste.

Thanks Bill


On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Bill Bentley  wrote:

This guy should be moderated!




- Original Message -
From: bmorgan...@aol.com
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 10:03 AM
Subject: [Texascavers] Nico sez: they dont just practice their 
marksmanship

shooting live targets
One fine day not too far south of Juarez I was tootling along when I ran
into a checkpoint manned by a bunch of guys in orange jumpsuits who I
presumed to be Federales. They were massively armed with all sorts of high
powered automatic and semiautomatic rifles and pistols which they were
unloading like armageddon at a large number of whiskey and tequila bottles
lined up on the hillside by the road. From that and their staggering and
swaggering demeanor I quickly concluded that they were dead drunk and that 
I

was soon to be dead, or at the very least relieved of some cash. Not to
worry though, for I had taken the precaution of bringing a suitable supply
of the universal solvent. No, not money, beer! When in Mexico I alway 
carry

two coolers, one filled with good Mexican beer which I consume myself, and
one filled with Budweiser for the Feds. So when they started to rip apart 
my

truck in search of whatever I simply directed them to look in cooler B.
There they found the very contraband they were looking for. Problem 
solved!

And to think that some poor fools suppose that guns and alcohol don't mix!

Since some folks like to poke snakes with a stick just to hear them rattle
(which is of course the exact moral equivalent of making batty patties), 
so
I think I should be forgiven for my recent satyrical diatribe concerning 
the
manhood and religious preferences of those who feel compelled to carry 
guns.

Just for the record I do support the right of gun ownership for the
aforementioned reason that when guns are outlawed only soldiers, cops, and
criminals will have guns. The vast majority of my friends own guns, some 
of
them own veritable arsenals, but all have the good judgement to be 
slightly

abashed and thus keep their gun well hidden. In other words they are not
deranged cowboys. Don�t ask don�t tell works fine with me.

The problem is that we are not as civilized as the Swiss. We celebrate 
guns

and encourage their proliferation. Responsible concealed carry and home
protection weaponry aside, does any one really think it is a good idea for
inner city teenagers to have guns? More to the point is the recent ruling
that guns be permitted in National Parks. These places are supposed to be
sanctuaries. It is a plain fact that the presence of guns will increase
mayhem and impact wildlife. �I had to shoot the (fill in the blank with
snake, wolf, panther, person, etc.) cuz I felt threatened. That bat was
flying straight at me!�

There are many toxic concepts, cultures, and ideologies throughout the
world. The flavors differ, but what they all have in common is a basis of
fear and superstition masquerading as tradition. We might suppose that
female genital mutilation is a really bad idea, but hey, it�s an honored
tradition, and besides, what right do we have to question how others live?
You might respond that not having your pussy cut out or sown shut is a 
basic

right. So is not getting shot.

You might think being a cowboy is cool, but just ask any Indian and he 
will

tell you that our traditional culture of gun violence and unrestrained
private property ownership with the inevitable consequent rape of natural
resources is a bad idea. In other words, ours is just another toxic 
culture

only with a ten gallon hat instead of a turban. That and my own propensity
for violence is why I don�t own a gun.

Sleaze

Re: [Texascavers] Nico sez: they dont just practice their marksmanship shoot

[BMorgan994]

Sorry! I could certainly have worded the mutilation part differently!
 
Sleaze

Re: [Texascavers] Nico sez: they dont just practice their marksmanship shooting live targets

[Charles Goldsmith]

Sleaze, I enjoy your stories, and I  know many people do, but please
watch your content a bit, or at least how you say it in here.  I've
already gotten one complaint, and hopefully I won't get anymore, but
please watch the language.

Let me know if you have any questions about it
Charles

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 10:03 AM,   wrote:
> One fine day not too far south of Juarez I was tootling along when I ran
> into a checkpoint manned by a bunch of guys in orange jumpsuits who I
> presumed to be Federales. They were massively armed with all sorts of high
> powered automatic and semiautomatic rifles and pistols which they were
> unloading like armageddon at a large number of whiskey and tequila bottles
> lined up on the hillside by the road. From that and their staggering and
> swaggering demeanor I quickly concluded that they were dead drunk and that I
> was soon to be dead, or at the very least relieved of some cash. Not to
> worry though, for I had taken the precaution of bringing a suitable supply
> of the universal solvent. No, not money, beer! When in Mexico I alway carry
> two coolers, one filled with good Mexican beer which I consume myself, and
> one filled with Budweiser for the Feds. So when they started to rip apart my
> truck in search of whatever I simply directed them to look in cooler B.
> There they found the very contraband they were looking for. Problem solved!
> And to think that some poor fools suppose that guns and alcohol don't mix!
>
> Since some folks like to poke snakes with a stick just to hear them rattle
> (which is of course the exact moral equivalent of making batty patties), so
> I think I should be forgiven for my recent satyrical diatribe concerning the
> manhood and religious preferences of those who feel compelled to carry guns.
> Just for the record I do support the right of gun ownership for the
> aforementioned reason that when guns are outlawed only soldiers, cops, and
> criminals will have guns. The vast majority of my friends own guns, some of
> them own veritable arsenals, but all have the good judgement to be slightly
> abashed and thus keep their gun well hidden. In other words they are not
> deranged cowboys. Don’t ask don’t tell works fine with me.
>
> The problem is that we are not as civilized as the Swiss. We celebrate guns
> and encourage their proliferation. Responsible concealed carry and home
> protection weaponry aside, does any one really think it is a good idea for
> inner city teenagers to have guns? More to the point is the recent ruling
> that guns be permitted in National Parks. These places are supposed to be
> sanctuaries. It is a plain fact that the presence of guns will increase
> mayhem and impact wildlife. “I had to shoot the (fill in the blank with
> snake, wolf, panther, person, etc.) cuz I felt threatened. That bat was
> flying straight at me!”
>
> There are many toxic concepts, cultures, and ideologies throughout the
> world. The flavors differ, but what they all have in common is a basis of
> fear and superstition masquerading as tradition. We might suppose that
> female genital mutilation is a really bad idea, but hey, it’s an honored
> tradition, and besides, what right do we have to question how others live?
> You might respond that not having your pussy cut out or sown shut is a basic
> right. So is not getting shot.
>
> You might think being a cowboy is cool, but just ask any Indian and he will
> tell you that our traditional culture of gun violence and unrestrained
> private property ownership with the inevitable consequent rape of natural
> resources is a bad idea. In other words, ours is just another toxic culture
> only with a ten gallon hat instead of a turban. That and my own propensity
> for violence is why I don’t own a gun.
>
> Sleaze
>

Re: Fw: [Texascavers] Nico sez: they dont just practice their marksmanship shooting live targets

[Charles Goldsmith]

LOL, you know that we always get the bad with the good on these lists.
 In the 4 years I've done this, I've only had 1 or 2 complains on
Sleaze, but about 20 on David, and he rarely says anything that out of
place.

But I'll send him an email, that is out of place for most peoples taste.

Thanks Bill


On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Bill Bentley  wrote:
> This guy should be moderated!
>
>  hey, it’s an honored tradition, and besides, what right do we have to
> question how others live? You might respond that not having your pussy cut
> out or sown shut is a basic right. So is not getting shot>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: bmorgan...@aol.com
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 10:03 AM
> Subject: [Texascavers] Nico sez: they dont just practice their marksmanship
> shooting live targets
> One fine day not too far south of Juarez I was tootling along when I ran
> into a checkpoint manned by a bunch of guys in orange jumpsuits who I
> presumed to be Federales. They were massively armed with all sorts of high
> powered automatic and semiautomatic rifles and pistols which they were
> unloading like armageddon at a large number of whiskey and tequila bottles
> lined up on the hillside by the road. From that and their staggering and
> swaggering demeanor I quickly concluded that they were dead drunk and that I
> was soon to be dead, or at the very least relieved of some cash. Not to
> worry though, for I had taken the precaution of bringing a suitable supply
> of the universal solvent. No, not money, beer! When in Mexico I alway carry
> two coolers, one filled with good Mexican beer which I consume myself, and
> one filled with Budweiser for the Feds. So when they started to rip apart my
> truck in search of whatever I simply directed them to look in cooler B.
> There they found the very contraband they were looking for. Problem solved!
> And to think that some poor fools suppose that guns and alcohol don't mix!
>
> Since some folks like to poke snakes with a stick just to hear them rattle
> (which is of course the exact moral equivalent of making batty patties), so
> I think I should be forgiven for my recent satyrical diatribe concerning the
> manhood and religious preferences of those who feel compelled to carry guns.
> Just for the record I do support the right of gun ownership for the
> aforementioned reason that when guns are outlawed only soldiers, cops, and
> criminals will have guns. The vast majority of my friends own guns, some of
> them own veritable arsenals, but all have the good judgement to be slightly
> abashed and thus keep their gun well hidden. In other words they are not
> deranged cowboys. Don’t ask don’t tell works fine with me.
>
> The problem is that we are not as civilized as the Swiss. We celebrate guns
> and encourage their proliferation. Responsible concealed carry and home
> protection weaponry aside, does any one really think it is a good idea for
> inner city teenagers to have guns? More to the point is the recent ruling
> that guns be permitted in National Parks. These places are supposed to be
> sanctuaries. It is a plain fact that the presence of guns will increase
> mayhem and impact wildlife. “I had to shoot the (fill in the blank with
> snake, wolf, panther, person, etc.) cuz I felt threatened. That bat was
> flying straight at me!”
>
> There are many toxic concepts, cultures, and ideologies throughout the
> world. The flavors differ, but what they all have in common is a basis of
> fear and superstition masquerading as tradition. We might suppose that
> female genital mutilation is a really bad idea, but hey, it’s an honored
> tradition, and besides, what right do we have to question how others live?
> You might respond that not having your pussy cut out or sown shut is a basic
> right. So is not getting shot.
>
> You might think being a cowboy is cool, but just ask any Indian and he will
> tell you that our traditional culture of gun violence and unrestrained
> private property ownership with the inevitable consequent rape of natural
> resources is a bad idea. In other words, ours is just another toxic culture
> only with a ten gallon hat instead of a turban. That and my own propensity
> for violence is why I don’t own a gun.
>
> Sleaze
>

Re: [Texascavers] Yes

[Charles Goldsmith]

Minnow, I'm sending this just to you. You need to check your email
client, you are still posting emails with no quoting, like below.
This is fine if its a one on one email, but on a mailing list, it
makes it near impossible to follow a thread easily.

Also, you won't find many people on this list that use l33t speak, you
tend to abbreviate your language.  Spell out your words, use grammar
and capitalize the words.  I  know it sounds silly, especially in an
informal setup such as this, but if you want people to take you
seriously, it's a must.  Everyone on this list is either in college or
older, and I'd say a majority of the members are 40+ years of age.

Let me know if you have any questions
Charles

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 6:36 PM,   wrote:
> Sorry and thank u Charles I will be sure to do that. Thought I was but Im
> not the best on the putter lol. I will ask u when I have any questions.
> Thanks again, Kelly/Minnow

RE: [Texascavers] snakes? (and other venomous critters)

[Fritz Holt]

I better look at the nude caver calendar that someone gave me for Christmas. I 
may have missed the scorpion.

Fritz


From: bgillegi...@gmail.com [mailto:bgillegi...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Gill 
Edigar
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 11:11 AM
To: Rod Goke
Cc: Texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] snakes? (and other venomous critters)

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 8:38 AM, Rod Goke 
mailto:rod.g...@earthlink.net>> wrote:
Wasn't there also a photo of a scorpion on somebody's obviously female nipple?

It'd make a great series.
--Ediger

[Texascavers] Big Oops

[caverarch]

And how the hell did the list get in there on my supposedly private note?  The 
moral is don't take advice from me!!!


Roger





-Original Message-
From: cavera...@aol.com
To: fh...@townandcountryins.com; bandits...@aol.com; texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Wed, Feb 24, 2010 12:31 pm
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: Lampasas


Fritz and Kelly, let's make sure to take further correspondence (unless it is 
directly cave-related) off the Texas Cavers list.  People have little patience 
for brief notes of back and forth chit-chat on the list, since it is supposed 
to be for cave news.  Just make sure these short notes go directly from 
fh...@townandcountryins.com to bandits...@aol.com and vice versa (without 
having texascavers@texascavers.com on the receiving list).  This will keep you 
both from being fussed at.


When I, personally, go astray from the directly cave-related (as I may have 
with my recent snake discouragement comments) I write at book length, so it 
only takes one glance for people to know if they want to read or delete the 
post.  


And Fritz, I just went immediately to Facebook and friended Kelly, which makes 
communication much easier.


Roger




-Original Message-
From: Fritz Holt 
To: 'bandits...@aol.com' ; texascavers@texascavers.com 

Sent: Wed, Feb 24, 2010 11:51 am
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: Lampasas



Kelly,
 
Still not sure but assume from yourstatistics you are a female.
 
Fritz
 


From:bandits...@aol.com [mailto:bandits...@aol.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 20105:01 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Re:Lampasas

 

Name is Kelly Garriott I just moved hereat the beginning of the month from 
Chicago.Was there taking care of my parents and mom my bestfriend in the world 
died. Imoved back here cause San Antoniowas home. My friend from 7th grade had 
a house to rent so we moved to Lampasasand I am having culture shock have 
always been in big cities. So trying to getaclimated lol need yalls help. 

 

 

 

Re: [Texascavers] Re: Lampasas

[caverarch]

Fritz and Kelly, let's make sure to take further correspondence (unless it is 
directly cave-related) off the Texas Cavers list.  People have little patience 
for brief notes of back and forth chit-chat on the list, since it is supposed 
to be for cave news.  Just make sure these short notes go directly from 
fh...@townandcountryins.com to bandits...@aol.com and vice versa (without 
having texascavers@texascavers.com on the receiving list).  This will keep you 
both from being fussed at.


When I, personally, go astray from the directly cave-related (as I may have 
with my recent snake discouragement comments) I write at book length, so it 
only takes one glance for people to know if they want to read or delete the 
post.  


And Fritz, I just went immediately to Facebook and friended Kelly, which makes 
communication much easier.


Roger




-Original Message-
From: Fritz Holt 
To: 'bandits...@aol.com' ; texascavers@texascavers.com 

Sent: Wed, Feb 24, 2010 11:51 am
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: Lampasas



Kelly,
 
Still not sure but assume from yourstatistics you are a female.
 
Fritz
 


From:bandits...@aol.com [mailto:bandits...@aol.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 20105:01 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Re:Lampasas

 

Name is Kelly Garriott I just moved hereat the beginning of the month from 
Chicago.Was there taking care of my parents and mom my bestfriend in the world 
died. Imoved back here cause San Antoniowas home. My friend from 7th grade had 
a house to rent so we moved to Lampasasand I am having culture shock have 
always been in big cities. So trying to getaclimated lol need yalls help. 

 

Fw: [Texascavers] Nico sez: they dont just practice their marksmanship shooting live targets

[Bill Bentley]

This guy should be moderated!




- Original Message - 
From: bmorgan...@aol.com 
To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 10:03 AM
Subject: [Texascavers] Nico sez: they dont just practice their marksmanship 
shooting live targets


One fine day not too far south of Juarez I was tootling along when I ran into a 
checkpoint manned by a bunch of guys in orange jumpsuits who I presumed to be 
Federales. They were massively armed with all sorts of high powered automatic 
and semiautomatic rifles and pistols which they were unloading like armageddon 
at a large number of whiskey and tequila bottles lined up on the hillside by 
the road. From that and their staggering and swaggering demeanor I quickly 
concluded that they were dead drunk and that I was soon to be dead, or at the 
very least relieved of some cash. Not to worry though, for I had taken the 
precaution of bringing a suitable supply of the universal solvent. No, not 
money, beer! When in Mexico I alway carry two coolers, one filled with good 
Mexican beer which I consume myself, and one filled with Budweiser for the 
Feds. So when they started to rip apart my truck in search of whatever I simply 
directed them to look in cooler B. There they found the very contraband they 
were looking for. Problem solved! And to think that some poor fools suppose 
that guns and alcohol don't mix!

Since some folks like to poke snakes with a stick just to hear them rattle 
(which is of course the exact moral equivalent of making batty patties), so I 
think I should be forgiven for my recent satyrical diatribe concerning the 
manhood and religious preferences of those who feel compelled to carry guns. 
Just for the record I do support the right of gun ownership for the 
aforementioned reason that when guns are outlawed only soldiers, cops, and 
criminals will have guns. The vast majority of my friends own guns, some of 
them own veritable arsenals, but all have the good judgement to be slightly 
abashed and thus keep their gun well hidden. In other words they are not 
deranged cowboys. Don’t ask don’t tell works fine with me.

The problem is that we are not as civilized as the Swiss. We celebrate guns and 
encourage their proliferation. Responsible concealed carry and home protection 
weaponry aside, does any one really think it is a good idea for inner city 
teenagers to have guns? More to the point is the recent ruling that guns be 
permitted in National Parks. These places are supposed to be sanctuaries. It is 
a plain fact that the presence of guns will increase mayhem and impact 
wildlife. “I had to shoot the (fill in the blank with snake, wolf, panther, 
person, etc.) cuz I felt threatened. That bat was flying straight at me!”

There are many toxic concepts, cultures, and ideologies throughout the world. 
The flavors differ, but what they all have in common is a basis of fear and 
superstition masquerading as tradition. We might suppose that female genital 
mutilation is a really bad idea, but hey, it’s an honored tradition, and 
besides, what right do we have to question how others live? You might respond 
that not having your pussy cut out or sown shut is a basic right. So is not 
getting shot.

You might think being a cowboy is cool, but just ask any Indian and he will 
tell you that our traditional culture of gun violence and unrestrained private 
property ownership with the inevitable consequent rape of natural resources is 
a bad idea. In other words, ours is just another toxic culture only with a ten 
gallon hat instead of a turban. That and my own propensity for violence is why 
I don’t own a gun. 

Sleaze

RE: [Texascavers] Re: Lampasas

[Fritz Holt]

Kelly,

Still not sure but assume from your statistics you are a female.

Fritz


From: bandits...@aol.com [mailto:bandits...@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 5:01 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Re: Lampasas

Name is Kelly Garriott I just moved here at the beginning of the month from 
Chicago. Was there taking care of my parents and mom my bestfriend in the world 
died. I moved back here cause San Antonio was home. My friend from 7th grade 
had a house to rent so we moved to Lampasas and I am having culture shock have 
always been in big cities. So trying to get aclimated lol need yalls help.

RE: [Texascavers] Minnow

[Fritz Holt]

Have I missed something during all of the David-esk posts? At 5 foot and 100 
pounds could this be Ms Minnow?

Fritz


From: bandits...@aol.com [mailto:bandits...@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 5:37 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Minnow

I am so ready to jump in head first lol I am pretty darn fit 100 lbs at 5 foot. 
I have never been caving just lots of research. I do have asthma but have an 
inhaler when needed. I am so pumped to do it all. Minnow

texascavers Digest 24 Feb 2010 17:32:05 -0000 Issue 989

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 24 Feb 2010 17:32:05 - Issue 989

Topics (messages 13929 through 13938):

Re: grotto culture
13929 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com
13931 by: caverarch.aol.com
13937 by: Fritz Holt

Re: remove me from CaveTex
13930 by: Charles Goldsmith

Re: Nico sez: they dont just practice their marksmanship shooting live targets
13932 by: Nico Escamilla

Re: Travel along the US Mexico border
13933 by: Bruce Anderson
13934 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com
13935 by: Don Arburn
13938 by: Bruce Anderson

Re: snakes? (and other venomous critters)
13936 by: Gill Edigar

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:


To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail:


To post to the list, e-mail:



--
--- Begin Message ---
Groan!
 
 
Mark
 



From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com]
Sent: Wed 2/24/2010 10:08 AM
To: 'Geary Schindel'; David; Cavers Texas
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] grotto culture



Surely you joust.

-Original Message-
From: Geary Schindel [mailto:gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org]
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 7:58 AM
To: David; Cavers Texas
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] grotto culture

David,

It was nice to see you at the Bexar Grotto meeting on Monday.  Nice description 
of the various grottos.  I was wondering if the grotto that has a Knights of 
the Round Table setting speak in old English and did they call each other "Sir 
so and so" a lot.

Geary



--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh, no, not there again!  And do you really want to know?





-Original Message-
From: John Brooks 
To: Geary Schindel 
Cc: David ; Cavers Texas 
Sent: Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:12 am
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] grotto culture


Another question: do any members of any of the grottoes carry concealed 
firearms to grotto meetings?Sent from my iPhoneOn Feb 24, 2010, at 7:58 AM, 
Geary Schindel  wrote:David,It was nice to see 
you at the Bexar Grotto meeting on Monday.  Nice description of the various 
grottos.  I was wondering if the grotto that has a Knights of the Round Table 
setting speak in old English and did they call each other "Sir so and so" a 
lot.Geary-Visit
 our website: http://texascavers.comTo unsubscribe, e-mail: 
texascavers-unsubscribe@texascavers.comFor additional commands, e-mail: 
texascavers-h...@texascavers.com-Visit
 our website: http://texascavers.comTo unsubscribe, e-mail: 
texascavers-unsubscribe@texascavers.comFor additional commands, e-mail: 
texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
 
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, I liked it. My attempt at humor has always been feeble (corny).

Fritz


From: mark.al...@l-3com.com [mailto:mark.al...@l-3com.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 10:16 AM
To: Fritz Holt; Geary Schindel; David; Cavers Texas
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] grotto culture

Groan!


Mark



From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com]
Sent: Wed 2/24/2010 10:08 AM
To: 'Geary Schindel'; David; Cavers Texas
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] grotto culture

Surely you joust.

-Original Message-
From: Geary Schindel [mailto:gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org]
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 7:58 AM
To: David; Cavers Texas
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] grotto culture

David,

It was nice to see you at the Bexar Grotto meeting on Monday.  Nice description 
of the various grottos.  I was wondering if the grotto that has a Knights of 
the Round Table setting speak in old English and did they call each other "Sir 
so and so" a lot.

Geary
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
AOL makes it difficult at times get removed for some reason that I
can't explain.  You are removed.  I'm sorry that a new caver is
running you off, I personally just hit the delete button :)

Yes, I plan to be at CaCa on May 8th, so hope to see you there!
Charles

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 6:50 AM,   wrote:
> Thanks,
>
> Charles,
>
> I have tried twice to get off the list..if this isn't the way, please send
> instructions.
>
> Minnow's multiple responses were enough to drive me over the edge.
>
> Are you going to the May 8 rock haul?  Hope to see you there.
>
> Martha in Sandia Park.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds like you didnt get shot at all did you? People get "relieved" of cash
and/or beer
all the time, but that doesnt mean that our rather corrupt law enforcement
will just shoot
you for no reason (not stopping at an army checkpoint will turn your car
into a strainer, but I digress) my advice for y'all coming into Mexico is:
learn how to bribe without getting ripped off
first tell them to write you a ticket, they might hold your license, big
deal! thats property 

Re: [Texascavers] Travel along the US Mexico border

[Bruce Anderson]

Yes you did.  thanks again.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Don Arburn 
  Cc: Cavers Texas 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 11:07 AM
  Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Travel along the US Mexico border


  Didn't I tow you and your truck to Bustamante from Minas Viejas once?


  All I can say is, the Federales have some cool 4x4 caving vehicles with 
propellers and turrets at the borders. There, caving related and on topic. 




  Don's iPhone.

  On Feb 24, 2010, at 10:54 AM, Bruce Anderson  wrote:


I actually live in deep south Texas in McAllen.  I was in Juarez the first 
of the month and I can tell you that it is just as bad here as there only they 
keep it quiet around here.  The problem is that you need to be very aware of 
your surroundings.  Bullets do not care what is in their path.  The US 
officials were on high alert down here twice last week with swat teams at the 
crossings because they thought it might spill over into the US.

I am in and out Mexico doing business very frequently and all I can say is 
be very aware of your surroundings and be careful where you go.  You may still 
get caught in the cross fire.  There have been two gun fights one in Matamoros 
and one in Reynosa in the shopping malls in the past week.

As far as the Mexican officials are concerned, I have learned how to pay 
the bribe game and never had and major problems other than spending time and 
bribe money getting it done.  I can tell you this.  I do not mind the drive out 
of south Texas but it would be very scary having a breakdown between McAllen 
and George West in the middle of no where.  There are narcos (drug runners) and 
coyotes (people runners all through that region.  I am not saying whether I 
carry or not but I will say I will defend myself.

Bruce
  - Original Message - 
  From: Geary Schindel 
  To: Cavers Texas 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:26 AM
  Subject: [Texascavers] Travel along the US Mexico border


  This is in response to the new posting on travel to Mexico.  This is from 
my caver friend that works in the Office of Homeland Security here in San 
Antonio.  He is also on Texas Cavers list but prefers to keep a low profile.  
Something to think about.

  Geary



  Hi Geary!

  They said they were going to renew that.  I am glad they did.  Some of 
the areas are very dangerous right now.  Folks just need to be aware of the 
threat and that things can turn sour very quickly.  Bullets are not picky who 
they hit during a gunfight.

  There has also been an increase in drug trafficking from Big Bend NP to 
Maverick County along the Texas border in the US.  In the last six months there 
has been at least two LARGE shipments picked up in Big Bend NP itself.  It is 
Very similar to what they are doing out in Organ Pipe National Park.  These are 
not the normal "wetback with drugs" scenario.  These are well armed individuals 
dressed in black or camouflage carrying fairly large amounts of contraband.  
They usually travel at night and have normally a number of set pick up points 
which they rotate around.  Cell phones are such a help to all.  They will avoid 
contact if possible but if cornered have been know to fight.  Normally if they 
are pressed hard they will drop there cargo and disappear but like stated 
before, they will fight if cornered and usually are quite ready to do that.  
They don't play by the same rules that we do.

  There has also been an increase in human trafficking (two or three young 
women from Mexico/Central America being sold in slavery or prostitution)  These 
are not so heavily armed but the handlers have been aggressive in the last 
couple months.  If confronted they will run and leave there cargo (the women) 
but there has been several incidences of ranchers and hunters being jumped at 
gates and such as the handlers were trying to steal the vehicle.  Packing a 
handgun seems to be a quick cure as they know most ranchers and hunters will 
use them if they can.  Just tell the guys to be careful going through gates to 
the caves late at night or early in the morning.  The buddy system works and 
safety in numbers is a good thing.  Two or more people they will evade and 
avoid.  They have been breaking into vehicles at night as well along the border.

  This time of year seems to be the time that this increases as the weather 
is more temperate and they can move large groups at night quite easily.  Hope 
this helps some.  Just thought you would want to know and maybe pass this on.  

  From your local Department of Homeland Security Friend!  :)  Take care 
Bro!

RE: [Texascavers] grotto culture

[Fritz Holt]

Well, I liked it. My attempt at humor has always been feeble (corny).

Fritz


From: mark.al...@l-3com.com [mailto:mark.al...@l-3com.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 10:16 AM
To: Fritz Holt; Geary Schindel; David; Cavers Texas
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] grotto culture

Groan!


Mark



From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com]
Sent: Wed 2/24/2010 10:08 AM
To: 'Geary Schindel'; David; Cavers Texas
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] grotto culture

Surely you joust.

-Original Message-
From: Geary Schindel [mailto:gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org]
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 7:58 AM
To: David; Cavers Texas
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] grotto culture

David,

It was nice to see you at the Bexar Grotto meeting on Monday.  Nice description 
of the various grottos.  I was wondering if the grotto that has a Knights of 
the Round Table setting speak in old English and did they call each other "Sir 
so and so" a lot.

Geary

Re: [Texascavers] snakes? (and other venomous critters)

[Gill Edigar]

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 8:38 AM, Rod Goke  wrote:

> Wasn't there also a photo of a scorpion on somebody's obviously female
> nipple?
>

It'd make a great series.
--Ediger

Re: [Texascavers] Travel along the US Mexico border

[Don Arburn]

Didn't I tow you and your truck to Bustamante from Minas Viejas once?

All I can say is, the Federales have some cool 4x4 caving vehicles  
with propellers and turrets at the borders. There, caving related and  
on topic.



Don's iPhone.

On Feb 24, 2010, at 10:54 AM, Bruce Anderson   
wrote:


I actually live in deep south Texas in McAllen.  I was in Juarez the  
first of the month and I can tell you that it is just as bad here as  
there only they keep it quiet around here.  The  problem is that you  
need to be very aware of your surroundings.  Bullets do not care  
what is in their path.  The US officials were on high alert down  
here twice last week with swat teams at the crossings because they  
thought it might spill over into the US.


I am in and out Mexico doing business very frequently and all I can  
say is be very aware of your surroundings and be careful where you  
go.  You may still get caught in the cross fire.  There have been  
two gun fights one in Matamoros and one in Reynosa in the shopping  
malls in the past week.


As far as the Mexican officials are concerned, I have learned how to  
pay the bribe game and never had and major problems other than  
spending time and bribe money getting it done.  I can tell you  
this.  I do not mind the drive out of south Texas but it would be  
very scary having a breakdown between McAllen and George West in the  
middle of no where.  There are narcos (drug runners) and coyotes  
(people runners all through that region.  I am not saying whether I  
carry or not but I will say I will defend myself.


Bruce
- Original Message -
From: Geary Schindel
To: Cavers Texas
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:26 AM
Subject: [Texascavers] Travel along the US Mexico border

This is in response to the new posting on travel to Mexico.  This is  
from my caver friend that works in the Office of Homeland Security  
here in San Antonio.  He is also on Texas Cavers list but prefers to  
keep a low profile.  Something to think about.


Geary



Hi Geary!

They said they were going to renew that.  I am glad they did.  Some  
of the areas are very dangerous right now.  Folks just need to be  
aware of the threat and that things can turn sour very quickly.   
Bullets are not picky who they hit during a gunfight.


There has also been an increase in drug trafficking from Big Bend NP  
to Maverick County along the Texas border in the US.  In the last  
six months there has been at least two LARGE shipments picked up in  
Big Bend NP itself.  It is Very similar to what they are doing out  
in Organ Pipe National Park.  These are not the normal "wetback with  
drugs" scenario.  These are well armed individuals dressed in black  
or camouflage carrying fairly large amounts of contraband.  They  
usually travel at night and have normally a number of set pick up  
points which they rotate around.  Cell phones are such a help to  
all.  They will avoid contact if possible but if cornered have been  
know to fight.  Normally if they are pressed hard they will drop  
there cargo and disappear but like stated before, they will fight if  
cornered and usually are quite ready to do that.  They don't play by  
the same rules that we do.


There has also been an increase in human trafficking (two or three  
young women from Mexico/Central America being sold in slavery or  
prostitution)  These are not so heavily armed but the handlers have  
been aggressive in the last couple months.  If confronted they will  
run and leave there cargo (the women) but there has been several  
incidences of ranchers and hunters being jumped at gates and such as  
the handlers were trying to steal the vehicle.  Packing a handgun  
seems to be a quick cure as they knowmost ranchers and hunters  
will use them if they can.  Just tell the guys to be careful going  
through gates to the caves late at night or early in the morning.   
The buddy system works and safety in numbers is a good thing.  Two  
or more people they will evade and avoid.  They have been breaking  
into vehicles at night as well along the border.


This time of year seems to be the time that this increases as the  
weather is more temperate and they can move large groups at night  
quite easily.  Hope this helps some.  Just thought you would want to  
know and maybe pass this on.


From your local Department of Homeland Security Friend!  :)  Take  
care Bro!

RE: [Texascavers] Travel along the US Mexico border

[Mark . Alman]

 
Man, I think I'll stay in TX and NM and cave.
 
All I have to worry about up here is rattlesnakes and gun/evolution debates!
 
 
 
Mark A.
 
 



From: Bruce Anderson [mailto:brewskyj...@rgv.rr.com]
Sent: Wed 2/24/2010 10:54 AM
To: Geary Schindel; Cavers Texas
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Travel along the US Mexico border


I actually live in deep south Texas in McAllen.  I was in Juarez the first of 
the month and I can tell you that it is just as bad here as there only they 
keep it quiet around here.  The problem is that you need to be very aware of 
your surroundings.  Bullets do not care what is in their path.  The US 
officials were on high alert down here twice last week with swat teams at the 
crossings because they thought it might spill over into the US.
 
I am in and out Mexico doing business very frequently and all I can say is be 
very aware of your surroundings and be careful where you go.  You may still get 
caught in the cross fire.  There have been two gun fights one in Matamoros and 
one in Reynosa in the shopping malls in the past week.
 
As far as the Mexican officials are concerned, I have learned how to pay the 
bribe game and never had and major problems other than spending time and bribe 
money getting it done.  I can tell you this.  I do not mind the drive out of 
south Texas but it would be very scary having a breakdown between McAllen and 
George West in the middle of no where.  There are narcos (drug runners) and 
coyotes (people runners all through that region.  I am not saying whether I 
carry or not but I will say I will defend myself.
 
Bruce

- Original Message - 
From: Geary Schindel   
To: Cavers Texas   
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:26 AM
Subject: [Texascavers] Travel along the US Mexico border


This is in response to the new posting on travel to Mexico.  This is 
from my caver friend that works in the Office of Homeland Security here in San 
Antonio.  He is also on Texas Cavers list but prefers to keep a low profile.  
Something to think about.

Geary

 

Hi Geary!

They said they were going to renew that.  I am glad they did.  Some of 
the areas are very dangerous right now.  Folks just need to be aware of the 
threat and that things can turn sour very quickly.  Bullets are not picky who 
they hit during a gunfight.

There has also been an increase in drug trafficking from Big Bend NP to 
Maverick County along the Texas border in the US.  In the last six months there 
has been at least two LARGE shipments picked up in Big Bend NP itself.  It is 
Very similar to what they are doing out in Organ Pipe National Park.  These are 
not the normal "wetback with drugs" scenario.  These are well armed individuals 
dressed in black or camouflage carrying fairly large amounts of contraband.  
They usually travel at night and have normally a number of set pick up points 
which they rotate around.  Cell phones are such a help to all.  They will avoid 
contact if possible but if cornered have been know to fight.  Normally if they 
are pressed hard they will drop there cargo and disappear but like stated 
before, they will fight if cornered and usually are quite ready to do that.  
They don't play by the same rules that we do.

There has also been an increase in human trafficking (two or three 
young women from Mexico/Central America being sold in slavery or prostitution)  
These are not so heavily armed but the handlers have been aggressive in the 
last couple months.  If confronted they will run and leave there cargo (the 
women) but there has been several incidences of ranchers and hunters being 
jumped at gates and such as the handlers were trying to steal the vehicle.  
Packing a handgun seems to be a quick cure as they know most ranchers and 
hunters will use them if they can.  Just tell the guys to be careful going 
through gates to the caves late at night or early in the morning.  The buddy 
system works and safety in numbers is a good thing.  Two or more people they 
will evade and avoid.  They have been breaking into vehicles at night as well 
along the border.

This time of year seems to be the time that this increases as the 
weather is more temperate and they can move large groups at night quite easily. 
 Hope this helps some.  Just thought you would want to know and maybe pass this 
on.  

From your local Department of Homeland Security Friend!  :)  Take care 
Bro!

Re: [Texascavers] Travel along the US Mexico border

[Bruce Anderson]

I actually live in deep south Texas in McAllen.  I was in Juarez the first of 
the month and I can tell you that it is just as bad here as there only they 
keep it quiet around here.  The problem is that you need to be very aware of 
your surroundings.  Bullets do not care what is in their path.  The US 
officials were on high alert down here twice last week with swat teams at the 
crossings because they thought it might spill over into the US.

I am in and out Mexico doing business very frequently and all I can say is be 
very aware of your surroundings and be careful where you go.  You may still get 
caught in the cross fire.  There have been two gun fights one in Matamoros and 
one in Reynosa in the shopping malls in the past week.

As far as the Mexican officials are concerned, I have learned how to pay the 
bribe game and never had and major problems other than spending time and bribe 
money getting it done.  I can tell you this.  I do not mind the drive out of 
south Texas but it would be very scary having a breakdown between McAllen and 
George West in the middle of no where.  There are narcos (drug runners) and 
coyotes (people runners all through that region.  I am not saying whether I 
carry or not but I will say I will defend myself.

Bruce
  - Original Message - 
  From: Geary Schindel 
  To: Cavers Texas 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 9:26 AM
  Subject: [Texascavers] Travel along the US Mexico border


  This is in response to the new posting on travel to Mexico.  This is from my 
caver friend that works in the Office of Homeland Security here in San Antonio. 
 He is also on Texas Cavers list but prefers to keep a low profile.  Something 
to think about.

  Geary

   

  Hi Geary!

  They said they were going to renew that.  I am glad they did.  Some of the 
areas are very dangerous right now.  Folks just need to be aware of the threat 
and that things can turn sour very quickly.  Bullets are not picky who they hit 
during a gunfight.

  There has also been an increase in drug trafficking from Big Bend NP to 
Maverick County along the Texas border in the US.  In the last six months there 
has been at least two LARGE shipments picked up in Big Bend NP itself.  It is 
Very similar to what they are doing out in Organ Pipe National Park.  These are 
not the normal "wetback with drugs" scenario.  These are well armed individuals 
dressed in black or camouflage carrying fairly large amounts of contraband.  
They usually travel at night and have normally a number of set pick up points 
which they rotate around.  Cell phones are such a help to all.  They will avoid 
contact if possible but if cornered have been know to fight.  Normally if they 
are pressed hard they will drop there cargo and disappear but like stated 
before, they will fight if cornered and usually are quite ready to do that.  
They don't play by the same rules that we do.

  There has also been an increase in human trafficking (two or three young 
women from Mexico/Central America being sold in slavery or prostitution)  These 
are not so heavily armed but the handlers have been aggressive in the last 
couple months.  If confronted they will run and leave there cargo (the women) 
but there has been several incidences of ranchers and hunters being jumped at 
gates and such as the handlers were trying to steal the vehicle.  Packing a 
handgun seems to be a quick cure as they know most ranchers and hunters will 
use them if they can.  Just tell the guys to be careful going through gates to 
the caves late at night or early in the morning.  The buddy system works and 
safety in numbers is a good thing.  Two or more people they will evade and 
avoid.  They have been breaking into vehicles at night as well along the border.

  This time of year seems to be the time that this increases as the weather is 
more temperate and they can move large groups at night quite easily.  Hope this 
helps some.  Just thought you would want to know and maybe pass this on.  

  From your local Department of Homeland Security Friend!  :)  Take care Bro!

Re: [Texascavers] Nico sez: they dont just practice their marksmanship shooting live targets

[Nico Escamilla]

Sounds like you didnt get shot at all did you? People get "relieved" of cash
and/or beer
all the time, but that doesnt mean that our rather corrupt law enforcement
will just shoot
you for no reason (not stopping at an army checkpoint will turn your car
into a strainer, but I digress) my advice for y'all coming into Mexico is:
learn how to bribe without getting ripped off
first tell them to write you a ticket, they might hold your license, big
deal! thats property of your state/country, just get a new one when you get
back home, they'll usually let you go if you insist that they write you a
ticket specially if they stopped you for no reason. Now, if you did screw up
and you know it, get a smaller note out like 100 pesos and say thats all
you've got or are willing to give them, most will take it off your hands
before you can say huh? If they're set in getting more money from you go
back to step 1 and tell them to write you a ticket, go back home, get new
license. One other thing that helps is having your camera handy when getting
pulled over, take pictures or video of the officer trying to bribe you, some
are ignorant to the point of posing for it but this is a two edged sword as
some other officer might try to get it off your hands since you have proof
of their corruption. Again, use common sense, be nice to the police and
you'll be out of trouble.

this is quite the lengthy subject, if someone wishes to keep discussing it,
I suggest we take it to the OT list,

Nico

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 10:03 AM,  wrote:

>  One fine day not too far south of Juarez I was tootling along when I ran
> into a checkpoint manned by a bunch of guys in orange jumpsuits who I
> presumed to be Federales. They were massively armed with all sorts of high
> powered automatic and semiautomatic rifles and pistols which they were
> unloading like armageddon at a large number of whiskey and tequila bottles
> lined up on the hillside by the road. From that and their staggering and
> swaggering demeanor I quickly concluded that they were dead drunk and that I
> was soon to be dead, or at the very least relieved of some cash. Not to
> worry though, for I had taken the precaution of bringing a suitable supply
> of the universal solvent. No, not money, beer! When in Mexico I alway carry
> two coolers, one filled with good Mexican beer which I consume myself, and
> one filled with Budweiser for the Feds. So when they started to rip apart my
> truck in search of whatever I simply directed them to look in cooler B.
> There they found the very contraband they were looking for. Problem solved!
> And to think that some poor fools suppose that guns and alcohol don't mix!
>
>
>

Re: [Texascavers] grotto culture

[caverarch]

Oh, no, not there again!  And do you really want to know?





-Original Message-
From: John Brooks 
To: Geary Schindel 
Cc: David ; Cavers Texas 
Sent: Wed, Feb 24, 2010 9:12 am
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] grotto culture


Another question: do any members of any of the grottoes carry concealed 
firearms to grotto meetings?Sent from my iPhoneOn Feb 24, 2010, at 7:58 AM, 
Geary Schindel  wrote:David,It was nice to see 
you at the Bexar Grotto meeting on Monday.  Nice description of the various 
grottos.  I was wondering if the grotto that has a Knights of the Round Table 
setting speak in old English and did they call each other "Sir so and so" a 
lot.Geary-Visit
 our website: http://texascavers.comTo unsubscribe, e-mail: 
texascavers-unsubscribe@texascavers.comFor additional commands, e-mail: 
texascavers-h...@texascavers.com-Visit
 our website: http://texascavers.comTo unsubscribe, e-mail: 
texascavers-unsubscribe@texascavers.comFor additional commands, e-mail: 
texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
 

Re: [Texascavers] remove me from CaveTex

[Charles Goldsmith]

AOL makes it difficult at times get removed for some reason that I
can't explain.  You are removed.  I'm sorry that a new caver is
running you off, I personally just hit the delete button :)

Yes, I plan to be at CaCa on May 8th, so hope to see you there!
Charles

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 6:50 AM,   wrote:
> Thanks,
>
> Charles,
>
> I have tried twice to get off the list..if this isn't the way, please send
> instructions.
>
> Minnow's multiple responses were enough to drive me over the edge.
>
> Are you going to the May 8 rock haul?  Hope to see you there.
>
> Martha in Sandia Park.

RE: [Texascavers] grotto culture

[Mark . Alman]

Groan!
 
 
Mark
 



From: Fritz Holt [mailto:fh...@townandcountryins.com]
Sent: Wed 2/24/2010 10:08 AM
To: 'Geary Schindel'; David; Cavers Texas
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] grotto culture



Surely you joust.

-Original Message-
From: Geary Schindel [mailto:gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org]
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 7:58 AM
To: David; Cavers Texas
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] grotto culture

David,

It was nice to see you at the Bexar Grotto meeting on Monday.  Nice description 
of the various grottos.  I was wondering if the grotto that has a Knights of 
the Round Table setting speak in old English and did they call each other "Sir 
so and so" a lot.

Geary

texascavers Digest 24 Feb 2010 16:17:31 -0000 Issue 988

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 24 Feb 2010 16:17:31 - Issue 988

Topics (messages 13909 through 13928):

Re: Query: gassing snake dens
13909 by: Rod Goke
13921 by: Kerry Lowery

Hands across the waters: Mammoth Cave, WKU and Slovenia partnership :
13910 by: JerryAtkin.aol.com

Re: Yes
13911 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
13915 by: Mark.Alman.l-3com.com

Re: snakes? (and other venomous critters)
13912 by: Rod Goke
13914 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
13917 by: Gill Edigar
13920 by: Rod Goke
13928 by: caverarch.aol.com

remove me from CaveTex
13913 by: MMcart1061.aol.com

grotto culture & no toes
13916 by: Gill Edigar

Re: grotto culture
13918 by: Geary Schindel
13919 by: Mallory Mayeux
13922 by: John Brooks
13923 by: tbsamsel.verizon.net
13925 by: egelsone.satx.rr.com
13927 by: Fritz Holt

Travel along the US Mexico border
13924 by: Geary Schindel

Nico sez: they dont just practice their marksmanship shooting live targets
13926 by: BMorgan994.aol.com

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:


To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail:


To post to the list, e-mail:



--
--- Begin Message ---
So that's why you're so worried about guns near caves. Gunfire could ignite the gasoline, and then you'd really have a mess at the cave entrance! Now we understand.:)Rod-Original Message-
From: Andy Gluesenkamp 
Sent: Feb 23, 2010 9:52 AM
To: texas cavers 
Subject: [Texascavers] Query: gassing snake dens

I'm trying to get a handle on how widespread is the practice of gassing snake dens in Texas.  "Gassing" is often used by rattlesnake collectors associated with roundups.  They typically use a garden sprayer or a hose to deliver gasoline into crevices and retreats with the intention of driving snakes to the surface.  Are any of you aware of this practice in karst areas?  Have you ever smelled gas at a cave entrance?  Please respond off-line.
gracias,
  AndyAndrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.700 Billie Brooks DriveDriftwood, Texas 78619(512) 799-1095a...@gluesenkamp.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gassing of snake dens is mostly a practice of the past.  Snake hunters have
figgered out that once you gas a den the snakes no longer want to live
there.  It can take years, if ever, for the snakes to rehabitate the den.
Just like big deer leases and hunters who try to manage their herd, snake
hunters want to do the same.  They do not want to eradicate what they are
hunting so they manage the area to keep the populations in check.

 

I am usually the one that gets volunteered to check for slithery critters,
and have the pleasure to remove them from an entrance when necessary.

For everyone else's health and sanity.

 

Kerry 

 

From: Andy Gluesenkamp [mailto:andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 8:52 AM
To: texas cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] Query: gassing snake dens

 


I'm trying to get a handle on how widespread is the practice of gassing
snake dens in Texas.  "Gassing" is often used by rattlesnake collectors
associated with roundups.  They typically use a garden sprayer or a hose to
deliver gasoline into crevices and retreats with the intention of driving
snakes to the surface.  Are any of you aware of this practice in karst
areas?  Have you ever smelled gas at a cave entrance?  Please respond
off-line.

gracias,

  Andy

Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
700 Billie Brooks Drive
Driftwood, Texas 78619
(512) 799-1095
a...@gluesenkamp.com

 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
 
_Mammoth Cave National Park_ (http://www.nps.gov/maca/index.htm)   expanded 
its family of partners on Feb. 12 by adding new “sisters” in Slovenia.  A 
signing ceremony between Mammoth Cave, WKU and the Karst Research Institute 
of  the Slovenian Academy of Sciences and Arts established a cooperative 
arrangement  to share scientific research. 
Mammoth Cave Superintendent Patrick Reed said, “As a World Heritage Site 
and  International Biosphere Reserve, Mammoth Cave is reaching out to other 
nations  and internationally renowned karst areas. This is a great opportunity 
to work  with our long-standing partner Western Kentucky University and 
forge new  connections with our Slovenian friends.” 
Participating in the signing were Superintendent Reed, Dr. Janez Mulec of 
the  Slovenian Karst Research Institute, Dr. Blaine Ferrell, Dean of Ogden 
College of  Science and Engineering, and Dr. Chris Groves, Director of WKU’s 
Hoffman  Institute. 
Dr. Mulec traveled to Kentucky representing the Slovenian partners – 
Skocjan  Caves, Postojna Cave, and the Slovenian Karst Research Institute. 
“Skocjan is a World Heritage Site and Postojna receives around 500,000  
visitors a year, making it a top tourist destination,” said Mulec. “The  
Slovenian karst landscape is very simil

[Texascavers] snakes? (and other venomous critters)

[caverarch]

Rod, if it were the rancher that snuffed the snake I wouldn't have spoken up 
(for the sake of landowner relations and all that).  But it was the cavers, and 
that kind of surprised me (though I'm sure the rancher would have approved at 
the time).  It's just that Florida is almost as thick on the ground with herp 
(reptiles & amphibians) fans as it is with snakes themselves.  And one of them 
was Clark Whitehorn, my best friend and the person whom I began caving with in 
high school.  He had a very high degree of environmental awareness for a 
teenager in the middle 1960's, and had turned me on to books like those of the 
late Archie Carr at the University of Florida on imperiled sea turtles, among 
the notable early studies of that ilk.  


Anyway, I was sold by then (1970) on the need ecological for predators, etc., 
and had to speak up for the idea of live and let live.  I don't think I did so 
offensively, and I certainly wasn't personally offended by the razzing I got.  
(Such is the stuff of good trip reports.)  After all, I was going back to 
Florida, and could dismiss them as "environmentally challenged, backward 
Texans."  


I wasn't then, and I'm not now, a vegan, Buddhist sort of 'do no harm' person.  
I've shot invasive nutria rats at our swamp house property.  But thus far, I've 
remarkably had only one test of principles* on my own turf (considering that 
the place is heaven for reptiles).  I heard one of my terriers barking with his 
distinctive "I've got something spotted but I can't decide if I should kill it 
or run away" barks.  He was about two feet from a moccasin at the edge of the 
swampy, heavily vegetated part of our shoreline, holding his position and 
barking for all he was worth.  I knew he would either bite me or go for the 
snake or try to do both when he is in that frame of mind, and an 18-lb dog can 
easily be bitten fatally by a pit viper.  


I didn't think I could get a fatal shot or bash in without a good chance of the 
snake striking, so I dashed to the shed and retrieved a pack of firecrackers 
(which he is terrified of).  I lit it and tossed it between them, which worked 
to get the dog out of harm's way as he streaked to the safety of the house.  
And the flashes, smells, and concussions seemed to register with the (deaf, 
like all snakes) cottonmouth, as it turned away and slithered into deep water.  


Now in this case my use of a non-lethal method was the result of a quick choice 
as to what might get the dog out of the way with the best chance of escaping a 
bite.  If I could have safely killed the snake, I probably would have.  But I 
did consciously decide not to try and pursue and kill it.  I just threw several 
more packs of firecrackers into the vegetated, swampy margin to convince the 
snake that this wasn't a pleasant place to be.  


*That is the only venomous snake that has made itself visible on or along the 
several hundred twisted feet of shoreline on the property, or in the mowed yard 
portion in the 8 years we've had the place.


Roger Moore
(now a member of GHG, the successor to the Rice Grotto of this story)



-Original Message-
From: Rod Goke 
To: cavera...@aol.com; Texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Wed, Feb 24, 2010 5:11 am
Subject: Re: [Texascavers]  snakes? (and other venomous critters)


Yes, Roger. Farmers and ranchers have had a long history of dealing with 
venomous critters in their own novel ways. 
 

 

RE: [Texascavers] grotto culture

[Fritz Holt]

Surely you joust.

-Original Message-
From: Geary Schindel [mailto:gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 7:58 AM
To: David; Cavers Texas
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] grotto culture

David,

It was nice to see you at the Bexar Grotto meeting on Monday.  Nice description 
of the various grottos.  I was wondering if the grotto that has a Knights of 
the Round Table setting speak in old English and did they call each other "Sir 
so and so" a lot.

Geary


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[Texascavers] Nico sez: they dont just practice their marksmanship shooting live targets

[BMorgan994]

 
One fine day not too far south of Juarez I was tootling along when I ran  
into a checkpoint manned by a bunch of guys in orange jumpsuits who I 
presumed  to be Federales. They were massively armed with all sorts of high 
powered 
 automatic and semiautomatic rifles and pistols which they were unloading 
like  armageddon at a large number of whiskey and tequila bottles lined up on 
the  hillside by the road. From that and their staggering and swaggering 
demeanor I  quickly concluded that they were dead drunk and that I was soon to 
be dead, or  at the very least relieved of some cash. Not to worry though, 
for I had taken  the precaution of bringing a suitable supply of the 
universal solvent. No, not  money, beer! When in Mexico I alway carry two 
coolers, 
one filled with good  Mexican beer which I consume myself, and one filled 
with Budweiser for the Feds.  So when they started to rip apart my truck in 
search of whatever I simply  directed them to look in cooler B. There they 
found the very contraband they  were looking for. Problem solved! And to think 
that some poor fools suppose that  guns and alcohol don't mix!
 
Since some folks like to poke snakes with a stick just to hear them rattle  
(which is of course the exact moral equivalent of making batty patties), so 
I  think I should be forgiven for my recent satyrical diatribe concerning 
the  manhood and religious preferences of those who feel compelled to carry 
guns.  Just for the record I do support the right of gun ownership for the  
aforementioned reason that when guns are outlawed only soldiers, cops, and  
criminals will have guns. The vast majority of my friends own guns, some of 
them  own veritable arsenals, but all have the good judgement to be slightly 
abashed  and thus keep their gun well hidden. In other words they are not 
deranged  cowboys. Don’t ask don’t tell works fine with me.
 
The problem is that we are not as civilized as the Swiss. We celebrate guns 
 and encourage their proliferation. Responsible concealed carry and home  
protection weaponry aside, does any one really think it is a good idea for 
inner  city teenagers to have guns? More to the point is the recent ruling 
that guns be  permitted in National Parks. These places are supposed to be 
sanctuaries. It is  a plain fact that the presence of guns will increase mayhem 
and impact wildlife.  “I had to shoot the (fill in the blank with snake, 
wolf, panther, person, etc.)  cuz I felt threatened. That bat was flying 
straight at me!”
 
There are many toxic concepts, cultures, and ideologies throughout the  
world. The flavors differ, but what they all have in common is a basis of fear  
and superstition masquerading as tradition. We might suppose that female 
genital  mutilation is a really bad idea, but hey, it’s an honored tradition, 
and  besides, what right do we have to question how others live? You might 
respond  that not having your pussy cut out or sown shut is a basic right. So 
is not  getting shot.
 
You might think being a cowboy is cool, but just ask any Indian and he will 
 tell you that our traditional culture of gun violence and unrestrained  
private property ownership with the inevitable consequent rape of natural  
resources is a bad idea. In other words, ours is just another toxic culture 
only  with a ten gallon hat instead of a turban. That and my own propensity for 
 violence is why I don’t own a gun. 
 
Sleaze
 

Re: [Texascavers] grotto culture

[egelsone]

What?

The idea of a CONCEALED Carry Permit is to keep it CONCEALED.

What possible relevence does this have? Do you search the patrons of youir 
local MacDonalds?  Your fellow movie going friends?

This is pure silliness.


 John Brooks  wrote: 
> Another question: do any members of any of the grottoes carry concealed 
> firearms to grotto meetings?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Feb 24, 2010, at 7:58 AM, Geary Schindel  
> wrote:
> 
> David,
> 
> It was nice to see you at the Bexar Grotto meeting on Monday.  Nice 
> description of the various grottos.  I was wondering if the grotto that has a 
> Knights of the Round Table setting speak in old English and did they call 
> each other "Sir so and so" a lot.
> 
> Geary
> 
> 
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
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> 
> 
> 
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[Texascavers] Travel along the US Mexico border

[Geary Schindel]

This is in response to the new posting on travel to Mexico.  This is from my 
caver friend that works in the Office of Homeland Security here in San Antonio. 
 He is also on Texas Cavers list but prefers to keep a low profile.  Something 
to think about.

Geary



Hi Geary!

They said they were going to renew that.  I am glad they did.  Some of the 
areas are very dangerous right now.  Folks just need to be aware of the threat 
and that things can turn sour very quickly.  Bullets are not picky who they hit 
during a gunfight.

There has also been an increase in drug trafficking from Big Bend NP to 
Maverick County along the Texas border in the US.  In the last six months there 
has been at least two LARGE shipments picked up in Big Bend NP itself.  It is 
Very similar to what they are doing out in Organ Pipe National Park.  These are 
not the normal "wetback with drugs" scenario.  These are well armed individuals 
dressed in black or camouflage carrying fairly large amounts of contraband.  
They usually travel at night and have normally a number of set pick up points 
which they rotate around.  Cell phones are such a help to all.  They will avoid 
contact if possible but if cornered have been know to fight.  Normally if they 
are pressed hard they will drop there cargo and disappear but like stated 
before, they will fight if cornered and usually are quite ready to do that.  
They don't play by the same rules that we do.

There has also been an increase in human trafficking (two or three young women 
from Mexico/Central America being sold in slavery or prostitution)  These are 
not so heavily armed but the handlers have been aggressive in the last couple 
months.  If confronted they will run and leave there cargo (the women) but 
there has been several incidences of ranchers and hunters being jumped at gates 
and such as the handlers were trying to steal the vehicle.  Packing a handgun 
seems to be a quick cure as they know most ranchers and hunters will use them 
if they can.  Just tell the guys to be careful going through gates to the caves 
late at night or early in the morning.  The buddy system works and safety in 
numbers is a good thing.  Two or more people they will evade and avoid.  They 
have been breaking into vehicles at night as well along the border.

This time of year seems to be the time that this increases as the weather is 
more temperate and they can move large groups at night quite easily.  Hope this 
helps some.  Just thought you would want to know and maybe pass this on.

>From your local Department of Homeland Security Friend!  :)  Take care Bro!

Re: Re: [Texascavers] grotto culture

[tbsamsel]

Lest we forget, Pancho:
 
"He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to feel"Feb 24, 2010 09:13:00 AM, jpbrook...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Another question: do any members of any of the grottoes carry concealed firearms to grotto meetings?Sent from my iPhoneOn Feb 24, 2010, at 7:58 AM, Geary Schindel wrote:David,It was nice to see you at the Bexar Grotto meeting on Monday. Nice description of the various grottos. I was wondering if the grotto that has a Knights of the Round Table setting speak in old English and did they call each other "Sir so and so" a lot.Geary-Visit our website: http://texascavers.comTo unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.comFor additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com-Visit our website: http://texascavers.comTo unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.comFor additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

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Re: [Texascavers] grotto culture

[John Brooks]

Another question: do any members of any of the grottoes carry concealed 
firearms to grotto meetings?

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 24, 2010, at 7:58 AM, Geary Schindel  
wrote:

David,

It was nice to see you at the Bexar Grotto meeting on Monday.  Nice description 
of the various grottos.  I was wondering if the grotto that has a Knights of 
the Round Table setting speak in old English and did they call each other "Sir 
so and so" a lot.

Geary


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RE: [Texascavers] Query: gassing snake dens

[Kerry Lowery]

Gassing of snake dens is mostly a practice of the past.  Snake hunters have
figgered out that once you gas a den the snakes no longer want to live
there.  It can take years, if ever, for the snakes to rehabitate the den.
Just like big deer leases and hunters who try to manage their herd, snake
hunters want to do the same.  They do not want to eradicate what they are
hunting so they manage the area to keep the populations in check.

 

I am usually the one that gets volunteered to check for slithery critters,
and have the pleasure to remove them from an entrance when necessary.

For everyone else's health and sanity.

 

Kerry 

 

From: Andy Gluesenkamp [mailto:andrew_gluesenk...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 8:52 AM
To: texas cavers
Subject: [Texascavers] Query: gassing snake dens

 


I'm trying to get a handle on how widespread is the practice of gassing
snake dens in Texas.  "Gassing" is often used by rattlesnake collectors
associated with roundups.  They typically use a garden sprayer or a hose to
deliver gasoline into crevices and retreats with the intention of driving
snakes to the surface.  Are any of you aware of this practice in karst
areas?  Have you ever smelled gas at a cave entrance?  Please respond
off-line.

gracias,

  Andy

Andrew G. Gluesenkamp, Ph.D.
700 Billie Brooks Drive
Driftwood, Texas 78619
(512) 799-1095
a...@gluesenkamp.com

 

Re: [PBSS] 5 Mouth

[Jon Hancock]

I was just kidding.

- Original Message -
From: Kerry Lowery 
To: Jon Hancock; jlrbi...@sonoratx.net ; p...@caver.net 
; dirtm...@angelo.edu 
Sent: Wed Feb 24 08:44:29 2010
Subject: RE: [PBSS] 5 Mouth

Not tired of digging.  Just too much on the agenda.  I was gonna try to make
it but haven't figgered out which direction im more in need of heading this
weekend yet.  Keep us up to date Jacqui and if I can make it I will.

Kerry

-Original Message-
From: pbss-boun...@caver.net [mailto:pbss-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of
Jon Hancock
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:12 AM
To: 'jlrbi...@sonoratx.net'; 'p...@caver.net'; 'dirtm...@angelo.edu'
Subject: Re: [PBSS] 5 Mouth

Looks like everyone is tired of digging.haha

- Original Message -
From: pbss-boun...@caver.net 
To: p...@caver.net ; Dirtmail 
Sent: Wed Feb 24 08:11:04 2010
Subject: [PBSS] 5 Mouth

All,
So far I have no one to go except me. Lori, no; ASU, no; Bill, maybe "no," 
haven't heard from anyone else.

If I cancel I need to call Doc and Jeryl today.

Looking like cancelling is the best idea. Jacqui 


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Re: [PBSS] 5 Mouth

[Kerry Lowery]

Not tired of digging.  Just too much on the agenda.  I was gonna try to make
it but haven't figgered out which direction im more in need of heading this
weekend yet.  Keep us up to date Jacqui and if I can make it I will.

Kerry

-Original Message-
From: pbss-boun...@caver.net [mailto:pbss-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of
Jon Hancock
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 8:12 AM
To: 'jlrbi...@sonoratx.net'; 'p...@caver.net'; 'dirtm...@angelo.edu'
Subject: Re: [PBSS] 5 Mouth

Looks like everyone is tired of digging.haha

- Original Message -
From: pbss-boun...@caver.net 
To: p...@caver.net ; Dirtmail 
Sent: Wed Feb 24 08:11:04 2010
Subject: [PBSS] 5 Mouth

All,
So far I have no one to go except me. Lori, no; ASU, no; Bill, maybe "no," 
haven't heard from anyone else.

If I cancel I need to call Doc and Jeryl today.

Looking like cancelling is the best idea. Jacqui 


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Re: [Texascavers] snakes? (and other venomous critters)

[Rod Goke]

After seeing that, how many Mexican kids were inspired to put scorpions into their own mouths, without knowing about the stinger removal trick? Ouch, I bet that burned even more than the spicy food they eat down there!Come to think of it, I remember seeing that "scorpion on the tongue" photo in some old slide shows. Wasn't there also a photo of a scorpion on somebody's obviously female nipple? I bet that trick impressed more than just the children.  ;-)Rod-Original Message-
From: Gill Edigar 
Sent: Feb 24, 2010 8:47 AM
To: Rod Goke 
Cc: Texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] snakes? (and other venomous critters)

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Rod Goke  wrote:
One of the most unique techniques I ever witnessed was the way a certain farmer and cave owner dealt with scorpions on his property in Florida  As we passed a fence post, he stopped, and with his bare hand, he calmly picked a scorpion off the fence post, holding the scorpion by the tail such that it couldn't sting him. With his other hand, he used a pocket knife to cut off the scorpion's stinger. Then he put the scorpion back on the fence post and continued walking and talking with us
There exist a couple of photos, taken 30 years or more ago, of me with a scorpion on my tongue. It used to be a favorite trick of mine at a time when I had a long, full red beard, and a large number of Mexican kids would gathered around our caver camp, just watching the Gringos, to find a scorpion and clip off its stinger with my pocket knife, leaving the rest of the tail intact. I'd pop it into my mouth and walk back to camp then, at an appropriate time, call attention to myself and open my mouth allowing the scorpion to crawl out onto the end of my tongue. It gained me a lot of worthless and doubtful respect, especially  amongst the kids who are probably telling their grand-kids about it now; The Gringo who could summon scorpions up out of his belly. 
--Ediger


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Re: [Texascavers] grotto culture

[Mallory Mayeux]

David, you should give us the list of the 5 grottoes you're referring to,
and let us make a game out of figuring out who is who! I've never been to
any grotto meetings besides Houston, but just from knowing different people
in each grotto, I bet I could guess @ least half correctly.

We could play @ TSA, and I could give a pair of gloves or a carabiner as a
prize to whoever gets the most right. :)

Mallory Mayeux




On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 7:58 AM, Geary Schindel <
gschin...@edwardsaquifer.org> wrote:

> David,
>
> It was nice to see you at the Bexar Grotto meeting on Monday.  Nice
> description of the various grottos.  I was wondering if the grotto that has
> a Knights of the Round Table setting speak in old English and did they call
> each other "Sir so and so" a lot.
>
> Geary
>
>
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
>

Re: [PBSS] 5 Mouth

[Jon Hancock]

Looks like everyone is tired of digging.haha

- Original Message -
From: pbss-boun...@caver.net 
To: p...@caver.net ; Dirtmail 
Sent: Wed Feb 24 08:11:04 2010
Subject: [PBSS] 5 Mouth

All,
So far I have no one to go except me. Lori, no; ASU, no; Bill, maybe "no," 
haven't heard from anyone else.

If I cancel I need to call Doc and Jeryl today.

Looking like cancelling is the best idea. Jacqui 


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[PBSS] 5 Mouth

[J. LaRue Thomas]

All,
So far I have no one to go except me. Lori, no; ASU, no; Bill, maybe "no," 
haven't heard from anyone else.


If I cancel I need to call Doc and Jeryl today.

Looking like cancelling is the best idea. Jacqui 



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RE: [Texascavers] grotto culture

[Geary Schindel]

David,

It was nice to see you at the Bexar Grotto meeting on Monday.  Nice description 
of the various grottos.  I was wondering if the grotto that has a Knights of 
the Round Table setting speak in old English and did they call each other "Sir 
so and so" a lot.

Geary


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Re: [Texascavers] snakes? (and other venomous critters)

[Gill Edigar]

On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Rod Goke  wrote:

> One of the most unique techniques I ever witnessed was the way a certain
> farmer and cave owner dealt with scorpions on his property in Florida
>  As we passed a fence post, he stopped, and with his bare hand, he calmly
> picked a scorpion off the fence post, holding the scorpion by the tail such
> that it couldn't sting him. With his other hand, he used a pocket knife to
> cut off the scorpion's stinger. Then he put the scorpion back on the fence
> post and continued walking and talking with us
>

There exist a couple of photos, taken 30 years or more ago, of me with a
scorpion on my tongue. It used to be a favorite trick of mine at a time when
I had a long, full red beard, and a large number of Mexican kids would
gathered around our caver camp, just watching the Gringos, to find a
scorpion and clip off its stinger with my pocket knife, leaving the rest of
the tail intact. I'd pop it into my mouth and walk back to camp then, at an
appropriate time, call attention to myself and open my mouth allowing the
scorpion to crawl out onto the end of my tongue. It gained me a lot of
worthless and doubtful respect, especially  amongst the kids who are
probably telling their grand-kids about it now; The Gringo who could summon
scorpions up out of his belly.
--Ediger

[Texascavers] grotto culture & no toes

[Gill Edigar]

On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 11:46 PM, David  wrote:

> I have had the privilege to attend meetings of 5 different grottoes
> in Texas, and 3 of which were in the last few months.
> There seems to be subtle differences in the grottoes' meetings...,


Way back in the late '60s there was a great discussion amongst those in the
NSS who cared and it was finally settled by convention that the plural of
Grotto would be Grottos, not the cumbersome and misleading Grottoes, which
is supposed to be an as yet undiscribed disease of the foot that shows up
after extended trips into water caves.
--Ediger

RE: [Texascavers] Yes

[Mark . Alman]

And a damn fine one, at that!
 
 
Mark
 



From: Katherine Arens [mailto:k.ar...@mail.utexas.edu]
Sent: Tue 2/23/2010 6:04 PM
To: bandits...@aol.com; texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Yes



Hey, Minnow--
i'm just an old broad,

Re: Re: [Texascavers] snakes? (and other venomous critters)

[tbsamsel]

My maternal grandparents (Texas & Oklahoma rural) would scrape up all grass for about 5-6 feet around any place they lived in so the snakes wouldn't have a place to hide.
 
TFeb 24, 2010 06:51:01 AM, rod.g...@ieee.org wrote:
Yes, Roger. Farmers and ranchers have had a long history of dealing with venomous critters in their own novel ways. Apparently, they don't like being bitten or stung any more than anyone else would, and after a few unpleasant encounters, many of them don't like having venomous critters threatening their families and their animals any more than most city dwellers would around their homes. One of the most unique techniques I ever witnessed was the way a certain farmer and cave owner dealt with scorpions on his property in Florida, back when you and I were both young cavers there. Several of us Florida cavers were talking with the farmer as we walked across his property towards some cave or sinkhole he was going to show us. His cave wasn't nearly as memorable as his method of dealing with scorpions. As we passed a fence post, he stopped, and with his bare hand, he calmly picked a scorpion off the fence post, holding the scorpion by the tail such that it couldn't sting him. With his other hand, he used a pocket knife to cut off the scorpion's stinger. Then he put the scorpion back on the fence post and continued walking and talking with us about whatever we had been discussing before he paused for the scorpion. He never said a word about the scorpion, and the whole stinger removal procedure was done so quickly and so calmly that he apparently thought of it as something too routine to mention. We cavers just looked at each other, as if to say, "Did you see what I think I just saw?", but we didn't mention it either. During our walk with the farmer that day, he nonchalantly repeated this procedure several more times with other scorpions. Apparently, it was what he was accustomed to doing whenever he saw one with a stinger.

We didn't see any venomous snakes that day, but I've often wondered how he would have handled it if we had. Did you ever see any toothless rattlers back in Florida?

Rod
-Original Message- From: cavera...@aol.com Sent: Feb 23, 2010 11:11 AM To: jcra...@edwardsaquifer.org, zachattackoo...@yahoo.com, Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] snakes? I visited the old Rice Grotto twice ca. 1968-1972 when I was still living in Florida, thanks to visits to an uncle in Houston.  I managed to go on once caving trip with them to the hill country. A rattler was encountered on the surface some where, and promptly dispatched.  (No, I don't remember the kind of weapon used.)  But I do remember being the subject of good-natured ridicule when I protested, saying that the snake wasn't bothering any body.  I was told something to the effect of "Leave a rattlesnake alive?  We never heard of such a crazy idea, boy."  
Roger Moore 
GHG


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[Texascavers] remove me from CaveTex

[MMcart1061]

Thanks,

Charles,

I have tried twice to get off the list..if this isn't the way, please send 
instructions.

Minnow's multiple responses were enough to drive me over the edge.

Are you going to the May 8 rock haul?   Hope to see you there.

Martha in Sandia Park.

Re: [Texascavers] snakes? (and other venomous critters)

[Rod Goke]

Yes, Roger. Farmers and ranchers have had a long history of dealing with venomous critters in their own novel ways. Apparently, they don't like being bitten or stung any more than anyone else would, and after a few unpleasant encounters, many of them don't like having venomous critters threatening their families and their animals any more than most city dwellers would around their homes. One of the most unique techniques I ever witnessed was the way a certain farmer and cave owner dealt with scorpions on his property in Florida, back when you and I were both young cavers there. Several of us Florida cavers were talking with the farmer as we walked across his property towards some cave or sinkhole he was going to show us. His cave wasn't nearly as memorable as his method of dealing with scorpions. As we passed a fence post, he stopped, and with his bare hand, he calmly picked a scorpion off the fence post, holding the scorpion by the tail such that it couldn't sting him. With his other hand, he used a pocket knife to cut off the scorpion's stinger. Then he put the scorpion back on the fence post and continued walking and talking with us about whatever we had been discussing before he paused for the scorpion. He never said a word about the scorpion, and the whole stinger removal procedure was done so quickly and so calmly that he apparently thought of it as something too routine to mention. We cavers just looked at each other, as if to say, "Did you see what I think I just saw?", but we didn't mention it either. During our walk with the farmer that day, he nonchalantly repeated this procedure several more times with other scorpions. Apparently, it was what he was accustomed to doing whenever he saw one with a stinger.We didn't see any venomous snakes that day, but I've often wondered how he would have handled it if we had. Did you ever see any toothless rattlers back in Florida?Rod-Original Message-
From: cavera...@aol.com
Sent: Feb 23, 2010 11:11 AM
To: jcra...@edwardsaquifer.org, zachattackoo...@yahoo.com, Texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers]  snakes?

I visited the old Rice Grotto twice ca. 1968-1972 when I was still living in Florida, thanks to visits to an uncle in Houston.  I managed to go on once caving trip with them to the hill country. A rattler was encountered on the surface some where, and promptly dispatched.  (No, I don't remember the kind of weapon used.)  But I do remember being the subject of good-natured ridicule when I protested, saying that the snake wasn't bothering any body.  I was told something to the effect of "Leave a rattlesnake alive?  We never heard of such a crazy idea, boy."  



Roger Moore
GHG










 








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Re: Re: [Texascavers] Yes

[tbsamsel]

Is crawling in cold mud really comfortable? Is getting into weird contortions while scraping around on rocks comfy? I think not. There is a soupçon of masochism, I fear, in high-risk "sport". Adrenaline ain't from the comfy chair. (Not the comfy chair!).
 
And you mean "you" for "u"? Or "ewe" or "yew". Spel bettur.
 
TFeb 23, 2010 03:43:25 PM, bandits...@aol.com wrote:

Ok T what the heck does that mean?? That I have to be uncomfortable being around other caver's?? If that's what u mean then I will be doing things on my own and no u wont be coming to save me! I'm about over this sorry I even said anything but still Jacqui Thomas rocks wish most of u talked like her.  Minnow

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