Re: [NMCAVER] SWR & Lincoln National Forest Working Agreement

2010-10-18 Thread jen . 

Most of the other "29 closures" have been that way since at least the 90's.  
Ken (and other people) were working towards getting 30 caves open, now he has a 
larger wishlist.  Currently 9 caves in the LNF are open to recreational caving 
(maybe more soon).  Some of the caves on the wishlist require work such as 
survey/inventory and safety sheets before they can be opened per the current 
cave management plan. The local office is doing the best they can with no 
resources/funding.   Ray, I know you were around for fee demo and the NSS 
agreement to provide volunteer cavers.   Yes cavers get the short end of the 
stick, but its because we love the caves more than they do.  We all know WNS is 
about to surprise us all with unscientific closures that will destroy the 
caver/volunteer network.  
I hope they can understand what they are about to lose (not just the forest, 
other Gov agencies too).
Jen.






From: rckee...@cox.net
To: ken_harring...@hotmail.com; nmca...@caver.net
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 19:24:48 -0700
Subject: Re: [NMCAVER] SWR & Lincoln National Forest Working Agreement










What happened to the 30 caves that were open to 
recreation, instead of nine?  Sorry Ken, but it looks like the USFS is 
looking for an excuse for using unpaid labor ... again.
 
Where is the documented, on-site criteria for the 
"closures"?  Not blanket, cave-by-cave.
If the SWR is regarded as the "experts" where is the 
consensus from SWR leaders with these additional 29 "closures".
What are the individual caves' exit criteria from the 
closures?
 
thanks,
 
Ray

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Ken Harrington 
  To: NM Cavers 
  Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 5:38 
  PM
  Subject: [NMCAVER] SWR & Lincoln 
  National Forest Working Agreement
  

  Hi folks,
   
  This is directed at the members of 
  the South Western Region (SWR)
   
  First a little background.  At the beginning of this year the 
  Guadalupe 
  District of the Lincoln 
  National Forest (LNF) closed all caves in the District to Recreational 
  Caving.  The caving community 
  screamed and yelled and finally got the attention of the LNF management.  
After two meeting with the cavers, the 
  LNF reopened nine caves for recreational caving.
   
  Since that time I have been 
  working with Jerry Trout (now retired) and others in the LNF to develop a 
more 
  cooperative relationship between the SWR and the LNF.  At the SWR Regional 
meeting on Labor 
  Day I outlined to those present what I was attempting to do.  
   
  During a recent meeting between 
  members of the SWR and the LNF we arrived at a list of 43 caves that are 
being 
  considered for recreational permits.  
  There will be at least one more meeting of those individuals to 
  complete the list.  Caves on the 
  list will be considered for three types of recreational permits: 1) Permit 
  where no dedicated leader is required, 2) trips where a trip leader 
  knowledgeable of the cave is required and 3) trips where a Forest Service 
  guide is required.  There are also 
  at one cave on the list that was considered too dangerous for recreational 
  caving due to bad air conditions.  We also noted that one cave is closed 
  due to the presence of human remains. 
   
  That is what has occurred to date 
  or is ongoing.  Now moving 
  forward:
   
  I and the folks at LNF are now in 
  the final stages of drafting a working agreement between the two 
  organizations.  The following is 
  an overview of what the SWR will be expected to do under this 
  agreement.
   
  The LNF now considers us as the 
  “Cave Experts” as they do not have anyone on staff that is knowledgeable of 
  the caves within the LNF.  The LNF 
  has a requirement on the book to monitor all the caves within their area of 
  responsibility – well over 100 caves.
   
  Under the agreement we will be 
  required to perform monitoring trips to as many of the caves as possible.  
Monitoring trips will be performed by 
  teams of four to six individuals.  
  Activities to be performed on these trips 
include:
   
  a) Mapping and surveying of caves 
  which have not previously been mapped.
   
  b) Photo documentation of the 
  condition of the caves, unique formations, any noted vandalism and any life 
  forms observed.
   
  c) Recommendations of caves that 
  need restoration work.
   
  d) Possible temperature readings 
  if digital thermometers are available.
   
  e) Presence and estimated number 
  of bats
   
  f) Each trip will require a 
  detailed trip report specifying what was observed, potentially dangerous 
  situations or spots (loose rocks, slippery footing, extremely difficult 
  vertical work required, etc.), life forms observed, archeological sightings, 
  condition of formations, etc.
   
  While the initial trips will be to 
  those caves which are on the list of 43 curently being considered for 
  recreational permits, eventually the monitoring trips

Re: [NMCAVER] SWR & Lincoln National Forest Working Agreement

2010-10-18 Thread Stephen Fleming 

 Whoa, that's news! What are the details/reasons?

On 10/18/2010 19:57, motoca...@comcast.net wrote:


And now we here that the BLM is doing a blanket closure of all BLM 
managed caves starting on 1 Nov to recreational trips.


Bob
- Original Message -
From: "Ray Keeler" 
To: "Ken Harrington" , "NM Cavers" 


Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 8:24:48 PM
Subject: Re: [NMCAVER] SWR & Lincoln National Forest Working Agreement

What happened to the 30 caves that were open to recreation, instead of 
nine?  Sorry Ken, but it looks like the USFS is looking for an excuse 
for using unpaid labor ... again.
Where is the documented, on-site criteria for the "closures"?  Not 
blanket, cave-by-cave.
If the SWR is regarded as the "experts" where is the consensus from 
SWR leaders with these additional 29 "closures".

What are the individual caves' exit criteria from the closures?
thanks,
Ray


___
NMCAVER mailing list
nmca...@caver.net
http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/nmcaver_caver.net

[Texascavers] Earth's birthday and Jill Orr Send Off Party

2010-10-18 Thread Geary Schindel 
Party Announcement

Friday, October 22, 2010 7:03 PM until whenever.

Reason:  Celebration of Earth's birthday (6,014 years young) and Jill Orr send 
off party.

For those who don't know, Jill will be relocating to San Diego soon.

We'll have the grill going and some drinks but feel free to bring a dish and 
any specialty drinks.

Dress: casual wear

Location:  Schindel house, 11310 Whisper Dawn, San Antonio 210-479-2151.

Party rules: stay off the roof and don't terrorize the neighbors.

Geary and Sue Schindel

Re: [NMCAVER] SWR & Lincoln National Forest Working Agreement

2010-10-18 Thread motocaver 


And now we here that the BLM is doing a blanket closure of all BLM managed 
caves starting on 1 Nov to recreational trips.  

  

Bob 
- Original Message - 
From: "Ray Keeler"  
To: "Ken Harrington" , "NM Cavers" 
 
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 8:24:48 PM 
Subject: Re: [NMCAVER] SWR & Lincoln National Forest Working Agreement 


What happened to the 30 caves that were open to recreation, instead of nine?  
Sorry Ken, but it looks like the USFS is looking for an excuse for using unpaid 
labor ... again. 

Where is the documented, on-site criteria for the "closures"?  Not blanket, 
cave-by-cave. 
If the SWR is regarded as the "experts" where is the consensus from SWR leaders 
with these additional 29 "closures". 
What are the individual caves' exit criteria from the closures? 

thanks, 

Ray 


- Original Message - 
From: Ken Harrington 
To: NM Cavers 
Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 5:38 PM 
Subject: [NMCAVER] SWR & Lincoln National Forest Working Agreement 



Hi folks, 



This is directed at the members of the South Western Region (SWR) 



First a little background.   At the beginning of this year the Guadalupe 
District of the Lincoln National Forest (LNF) closed all caves in the District 
to Recreational Caving.   The caving community screamed and yelled and finally 
got the attention of the LNF management.   After two meeting with the cavers, 
the LNF reopened nine caves for recreational caving. 



Since that time I have been working with Jerry Trout (now retired) and others 
in the LNF to develop a more cooperative relationship between the SWR and the 
LNF.   At the SWR Regional meeting on Labor Day I outlined to those present 
what I was attempting to do.   



During a recent meeting between members of the SWR and the LNF we arrived at a 
list of 43 caves that are being considered for recreational permits.   There 
will be at least one more meeting of those individuals to complete the list.   
Caves on the list will be considered for three types of recreational permits: 
1) Permit where no dedicated leader is required, 2) trips where a trip leader 
knowledgeable of the cave is required and 3) trips where a Forest Service guide 
is required.   There are also at one cave on the list that was considered too 
dangerous for recreational caving due to bad air conditions.   We also noted 
that one cave is closed due to the presence of human remains. 



That is what has occurred to date or is ongoing.   Now moving forward: 



I and the folks at LNF are now in the final stages of drafting a working 
agreement between the two organizations.   The following is an overview of what 
the SWR will be expected to do under this agreement. 



The LNF now considers us as the “Cave Experts” as they do not have anyone on 
staff that is knowledgeable of the caves within the LNF.   The LNF has a 
requirement on the book to monitor all the caves within their area of 
responsibility – well over 100 caves. 



Under the agreement we will be required to perform monitoring trips to as many 
of the caves as possible.   Monitoring trips will be performed by teams of four 
to six individuals.   Activities to be performed on these trips include: 



a) Mapping and surveying of caves which have not previously been mapped. 



b) Photo documentation of the condition of the caves, unique formations, any 
noted vandalism and any life forms observed. 



c) Recommendations of caves that need restoration work. 



d) Possible temperature readings if digital thermometers are available. 



e) Presence and estimated number of bats 



f) Each trip will require a detailed trip report specifying what was observed, 
potentially dangerous situations or spots (loose rocks, slippery footing, 
extremely difficult vertical work required, etc.), life forms observed, 
archeological sightings, condition of formations, etc. 



While the initial trips will be to those caves which are on the list of 43 
curently being considered for recreational permits, eventually the monitoring 
trips will be extended to caves which are not available for recreational caving 
permits. 



This is an excellent opportunity for us to visit these caves and assist the LNF 
in developing their data base of information on the caves which they are 
charged with administering.   



As a part of the agreement I am required to provide a listing of the names of 
individuals from the SWR who could be expected to be involved in the monitoring 
trips.   I am also required to provide a tentative schedule of when we could 
make some of the monitoring trips.   The schedule is fairly easy for me but I 
now need to know how much support is really out there to perform these trips.   
If there is not sufficient interest then both the management team at LNF and 
myself are just spinning our wheels and wasting a lot of precious time. 



So I now need to know who would be willing to be involved in participating in 
these trips.   Please e-mail at ken_harring...@hot

texascavers Digest 19 Oct 2010 02:28:54 -0000 Issue 1171

2010-10-18 Thread texascavers-digest-help 

texascavers Digest 19 Oct 2010 02:28:54 - Issue 1171

Topics (messages 16332 through 16348):

Texas Cavers Reunion "Dust Bowl" 2010
16332 by: Allan Cobb
16333 by: Amanda Scott
16334 by: Carl Kunath
16335 by: Nico Escamilla
16337 by: mark gee
16338 by: Don Cooper
16339 by: Allan Cobb
16340 by: Don Cooper
16341 by: Stefan Creaser
16344 by: Mark Minton
16346 by: Gill Edigar
16347 by: caverarch.aol.com

Re: Texas Cavers Reunion "Dust Bowl" 2010 - Need YOUR Photos!
16336 by: Mark.Alman.L-3com.com

41/10
16342 by: Stefan Creaser
16343 by: Stefan Creaser

World's Longest Tunnel
16345 by: Mark Minton

UT Grotto meeting October 20, 2010
16348 by: Gary Franklin

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:


To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail:


To post to the list, e-mail:



--
--- Begin Message ---

Howdy y'all,

TCR is a great event because it is attended by really great people. Thanks 
to all those who came out.


Yes, it was a little dusty.  That happens when it doesn't rain for a while.

I did see lots and lots of people having fun and that is the whole point of 
TCR.


I really want to thank the cooks for the great meal, the people who manned 
registration, Pete for the hot tub and sauna, the Terminal Syphons for a 
rockin' show, the vendors and organizations, and all the people who worked 
behind the scenes doing all the things that make TCR happen.  Thank you to 
everyone helped.


This year we tried to find the dustiest spot we could, you'll have to come 
to TCR next year to see the next big surprise.


See y'all next year,
Allan 

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Allan and everyone that helped make TCR possible, Thank You!  We had a
blast!

On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Allan Cobb  wrote:

> Howdy y'all,
>
> TCR is a great event because it is attended by really great people. Thanks
> to all those who came out.
>
> Yes, it was a little dusty.  That happens when it doesn't rain for a while.
>
> I did see lots and lots of people having fun and that is the whole point of
> TCR.
>
> I really want to thank the cooks for the great meal, the people who manned
> registration, Pete for the hot tub and sauna, the Terminal Syphons for a
> rockin' show, the vendors and organizations, and all the people who worked
> behind the scenes doing all the things that make TCR happen.  Thank you to
> everyone helped.
>
> This year we tried to find the dustiest spot we could, you'll have to come
> to TCR next year to see the next big surprise.
>
> See y'all next year,
> Allan
>
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
>


-- 
Amanda Scott
979-229-9430
mamaarsc...@gmail.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dusty?
What dust?
Never noticed a thing.
Too busy laughing with old friends and making new ones.
Had a great time!

Many thanks to Allan and all the other, mostly unsung, heroes who make this 
event possible!

===Carl Kunath






  - Original Message - 
  From: Allan Cobb 
  To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
  Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 8:47 AM
  Subject: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion "Dust Bowl" 2010


  Howdy y'all,

  TCR is a great event because it is attended by really great people. Thanks 
  to all those who came out.

  Yes, it was a little dusty.  That happens when it doesn't rain for a while.

  I did see lots and lots of people having fun and that is the whole point of 
  TCR.

  I really want to thank the cooks for the great meal, the people who manned 
  registration, Pete for the hot tub and sauna, the Terminal Syphons for a 
  rockin' show, the vendors and organizations, and all the people who worked 
  behind the scenes doing all the things that make TCR happen.  Thank you to 
  everyone helped.

  This year we tried to find the dustiest spot we could, you'll have to come 
  to TCR next year to see the next big surprise.

  See y'all next year,
  Allan 


  -
  Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
  To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
  For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com



--



  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
  Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3203 - Release Date: 10/17/10 
13:33:00
--- End Message ---
--- Begin M

[Texascavers] UT Grotto meeting October 20, 2010

2010-10-18 Thread Gary Franklin 
Greetings Caver,


You are cordially invited to attend the Underground Texas Grotto meeting
October 20, 2010



The meeting is on Wednesday from 7:45 P.M. - 9:00 P.M.

University of Texas Campus in 4.42 Painter Hall

NOTE:  THE ROOM NUMBER CHANGE to 4.42 PAIXXX

http://www.utexas.edu/maps/main/buildings/pai.html



The Program for the evening will be *Lava Tubes of the Galapagos
Islands*presented by Geoff Hoese, Jean Krejca, Vivian Loftin, and
Peter Sprouse.
Come hear their first hand accounts on a caving expedition to Isabella, the
largest of the Galapagos Islands. Spend your evening with some Austin cavers
sharing their experiences on this world-class trip to a magical location.



For information on Underground Texas Grotto activities, please see
www.utgrotto.orgAll of our information including officer contact info,
trips reports, new caver training, event calendar, and posting links to
beginner trips or vertical rope training are available.



Before the meetings, some may go to Sao Paulo  www.saopaulos.net  for happy
hour specials.  After the official meeting, we continue the tradition to
reconvene for burgers, beer, and tall tales of caving at Posse East.
www.posse-east.com



The UT Grotto needs you, the caver with photos and a story to share about
your adventures, scientific research, or something else really cool.  Contact
Gary


Gary Franklin

UT Grotto Vice-Chair & Program Organizer

512-585-6057

v...@utgrotto.org



*
*

Re: [NMCAVER] SWR & Lincoln National Forest Working Agreement

2010-10-18 Thread Ray Keeler 
What happened to the 30 caves that were open to recreation, instead of nine?  
Sorry Ken, but it looks like the USFS is looking for an excuse for using unpaid 
labor ... again.

Where is the documented, on-site criteria for the "closures"?  Not blanket, 
cave-by-cave.
If the SWR is regarded as the "experts" where is the consensus from SWR leaders 
with these additional 29 "closures".
What are the individual caves' exit criteria from the closures?

thanks,

Ray
  - Original Message - 
  From: Ken Harrington 
  To: NM Cavers 
  Sent: Friday, October 15, 2010 5:38 PM
  Subject: [NMCAVER] SWR & Lincoln National Forest Working Agreement


  Hi folks,

   

  This is directed at the members of the South Western Region (SWR)

   

  First a little background.  At the beginning of this year the Guadalupe 
District of the Lincoln National Forest (LNF) closed all caves in the District 
to Recreational Caving.  The caving community screamed and yelled and finally 
got the attention of the LNF management.  After two meeting with the cavers, 
the LNF reopened nine caves for recreational caving.

   

  Since that time I have been working with Jerry Trout (now retired) and others 
in the LNF to develop a more cooperative relationship between the SWR and the 
LNF.  At the SWR Regional meeting on Labor Day I outlined to those present what 
I was attempting to do.  

   

  During a recent meeting between members of the SWR and the LNF we arrived at 
a list of 43 caves that are being considered for recreational permits.  There 
will be at least one more meeting of those individuals to complete the list.  
Caves on the list will be considered for three types of recreational permits: 
1) Permit where no dedicated leader is required, 2) trips where a trip leader 
knowledgeable of the cave is required and 3) trips where a Forest Service guide 
is required.  There are also at one cave on the list that was considered too 
dangerous for recreational caving due to bad air conditions.  We also noted 
that one cave is closed due to the presence of human remains. 

   

  That is what has occurred to date or is ongoing.  Now moving forward:

   

  I and the folks at LNF are now in the final stages of drafting a working 
agreement between the two organizations.  The following is an overview of what 
the SWR will be expected to do under this agreement.

   

  The LNF now considers us as the “Cave Experts” as they do not have anyone on 
staff that is knowledgeable of the caves within the LNF.  The LNF has a 
requirement on the book to monitor all the caves within their area of 
responsibility – well over 100 caves.

   

  Under the agreement we will be required to perform monitoring trips to as 
many of the caves as possible.  Monitoring trips will be performed by teams of 
four to six individuals.  Activities to be performed on these trips include:

   

  a) Mapping and surveying of caves which have not previously been mapped.

   

  b) Photo documentation of the condition of the caves, unique formations, any 
noted vandalism and any life forms observed.

   

  c) Recommendations of caves that need restoration work.



  d) Possible temperature readings if digital thermometers are available.



  e) Presence and estimated number of bats

   

  f) Each trip will require a detailed trip report specifying what was 
observed, potentially dangerous situations or spots (loose rocks, slippery 
footing, extremely difficult vertical work required, etc.), life forms 
observed, archeological sightings, condition of formations, etc.



  While the initial trips will be to those caves which are on the list of 43 
curently being considered for recreational permits, eventually the monitoring 
trips will be extended to caves which are not available for recreational caving 
permits.

   

  This is an excellent opportunity for us to visit these caves and assist the 
LNF in developing their data base of information on the caves which they are 
charged with administering.  

   

  As a part of the agreement I am required to provide a listing of the names of 
individuals from the SWR who could be expected to be involved in the monitoring 
trips.  I am also required to provide a tentative schedule of when we could 
make some of the monitoring trips.  The schedule is fairly easy for me but I 
now need to know how much support is really out there to perform these trips.  
If there is not sufficient interest then both the management team at LNF and 
myself are just spinning our wheels and wasting a lot of precious time.

   

  So I now need to know who would be willing to be involved in participating in 
these trips.  Please e-mail at ken_harring...@hotmail.com if you would like to 
be involved.  Hopefully, my inbox will be full of positive responses.

   

  Thanks!

   

  Ken

  Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - It's about dancing in the 
rain.

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion "Dust Bowl" 2010

2010-10-18 Thread caverarch 
What's a little dust between friends, anyway?  It all came off in the first 
shower.  (The truck is next.)


Roger





-Original Message-
From: Allan Cobb 
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Sent: Mon, Oct 18, 2010 8:47 am
Subject: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion "Dust Bowl" 2010


Howdy y'all, 
 
TCR is a great event because it is attended by really great people. Thanks to 
all those who came out. 
 
Yes, it was a little dusty.  That happens when it doesn't rain for a while. 
 
I did see lots and lots of people having fun and that is the whole point of 
TCR. 
 
I really want to thank the cooks for the great meal, the people who manned 
registration, Pete for the hot tub and sauna, the Terminal Syphons for a 
rockin' show, the vendors and organizations, and all the people who worked 
behind the scenes doing all the things that make TCR happen.  Thank you to 
everyone helped. 
 
This year we tried to find the dustiest spot we could, you'll have to come to 
TCR next year to see the next big surprise. 
 
See y'all next year, 
Allan  
- 
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com 
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com 
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion "Dust Bowl" 2010

2010-10-18 Thread Gill Edigar 
If one had walked around the campground as supper was being served
probably another 50 or 60 or so without wrist bands would have been
found eating supper at their own camp. They hadn't registered. TCR had
to pay their use fee but didn't collect any registration fee to cover
it. Try to discourage anyone scamming TCR in the future if you know
about um.
--Ediger

On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Allan Cobb  wrote:
> The registration count was indeed 381 people.
>
> Allan

-
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[Texascavers] World's Longest Tunnel

2010-10-18 Thread Mark Minton 
Not exactly caving, but I just read that 
the world's longest tunnel has just broken 
through in Switzerland.  It's 57 km 
long!  Article 
below. 



Mark

Joyous Swiss celebrate longest tunnel breakthrough

By Frank Jordans, Associated Press Writer
Friday, October 15, 2010

SEDRUN, Switzerland (AP) ­ Swiss engineers 
smashed through the last stretch of rock Friday 
to create the world's longest tunnel, sparking a 
national groundswell of elation over a costly, 
technically difficult project that has been 60 years in the making.


Trumpets sounded, cheers reverberated and even 
burly workers wiped away tears as foreman Eduard 
Baer lifted a statue of Saint Barbara ­ the 
patron saint of miners ­ through a small hole in 
the enormous drilling machine thousands of feet 
(meters) underground in central Switzerland.


At that moment, a 35.4-mile (57-kilometer) tunnel 
was born, and the Alpine nation reclaimed the 
record from Japan's Seikan Tunnel. Television 
stations across Europe showed the event live.


"This is the most wonderful moment in my 36 years 
of tunnel building," Baer said as he paused for 
breath, surrounded by joyous colleagues in 
hardhats and bright orange work gear, VIPs and news cameras.


The new Gotthard Base Tunnel is seen as an 
important milestone in the creation of a 
high-speed transportation network connecting all corners of Europe.


First conceived in 1947 by engineer Eduard 
Gruner, it will allow millions of tons of goods 
that are currently transported through the Alps 
on heavy trucks to be shifted onto the rails, 
particularly on the economically important link 
between the Dutch port of Rotterdam and Italy's Mediterranean port of Genoa.


The tunnel also aims to reduce the damage that 
heavy trucks are inflicting on Switzerland's pristine Alpine landscape.


Peter Fueglistaler, director of the Swiss Federal 
Office of Transport, called Friday "a day of joy for Switzerland."


"We are not a very emotional people but if we 
have the longest tunnel in the world, this also 
for us is very, very emotional" he told The Associated Press.


Some 2,500 workers have spent nearly 20 years 
smashing through the rock beneath the towering 
Gotthard massif, including the 8,200-foot 
(2,500-meter) Piz Vatgira (Vatgira Peak).


When the $10 billion tunnel opens for rail 
traffic in 2017, it will replace Japan's 
33.5-mile (53.6-kilometer) Seikan Tunnel as the 
world's longest ­ excluding aqueducts ­ and let 
passenger and cargo trains pass under the Alps at 
speeds of up to 155 mph (250 kph) on their way from Germany to Italy.


Swiss voters, who are paying over $1,300 each to 
fund the project, approved its construction in a 
series of referendums almost 20 years ago.


European transport ministers watched the 
breakthrough ceremony live from a meeting in 
Luxembourg, conscious that Switzerland has set 
the bar very high for future cross-Alpine rail 
projects. Two further tunnels ­ one connecting 
connect Lyon, France, to Turin in Italy, and the 
other replacing the Brenner road tunnel between 
Austria and Italy ­ are still a long way from completion.


Swiss engineers are hoping to complete the rail 
tunnel even sooner than planned ­ possibly by the 
end of 2016 ­ but its first high-speed trains 
could be delayed by protests in Germany and 
Italy, where local opposition to new tracks and 
budget constraints have become an issue in recent months.


"Our neighbors in Germany and Italy will have to 
fulfill their promise and provide high-speed rail links," Fueglistaler said.


Asked whether he thought the large, ongoing 
protests in the German city of Stuttgart could 
derail the high-speed dream, he said: "Overall 
I'm confident that these connections will be built in time."


The protesters in Stuttgart oppose plans to move 
the city's station underground, viewing the 
euro4.1 billion ($5.7 billion) project as a waste 
of money. Supporters say it will free up the 
city's packed center and help shorten journeys across Europe.


Heinz Ehrbar, a bear of a man in bright orange 
overalls, told the AP the breakthrough 
celebration was also a moment to reflect on the 
lives lost during the Gotthard tunnel's construction.


"I'm really proud, but I'm thinking also of the 
eight people who have lost their lives," said 
Ehrbar, the tunnel's chief construction officer. 
"It's very important that we remember that not 
all of our workers can be with us today."


Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 



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[Texascavers] RE: Texas Cavers Reunion "Dust Bowl" 2010

2010-10-18 Thread Mark Minton 

At 04:13 PM 10/18/2010, Stefan Creaser wrote:
But I’ve done the vast majority of my caving in 
England and Europe and the biggest problem has been the rain…


Can’t seem to recall dust being a problem, but 
been in awe of seeing ‘dry’ riverbeds that were 
3m deep in water just a couple of days before ;-)


We've been known to have that sort of 
thing happen in Texas too.  TCR at Chalk Bluff on 
the Nueces River in 1998 was an example.  I think 
we got about 20 inches of rain overnight.  It 
washed away the hot tub, flooded tents, 
etc.  Roads were closed by high water and debris 
such that people couldn't even leave for several hours on Sunday.


Mark Minton

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[Texascavers] RE: 41/10

2010-10-18 Thread Stefan Creaser 
Oops, I guess you didn't want to see my timesheet for last week ;-)


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[Texascavers] 41/10

2010-10-18 Thread Stefan Creaser 
Week 41, 2010
Pr352 32.0
Hours,hols 8.0


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RE: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion "Dust Bowl" 2010

2010-10-18 Thread Stefan Creaser 
But I've done the vast majority of my caving in England and Europe and the 
biggest problem has been the rain...

Can't seem to recall dust being a problem, but been in awe of seeing 'dry' 
riverbeds that were 3m deep in water just a couple of days before ;-)

From: Don Cooper [mailto:wavyca...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 3:07 PM
To: Allan Cobb
Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion "Dust Bowl" 2010

And I must add - if you've EVER been caving - you've probably camped in way 
dustier conditions!!

-WaV
On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Allan Cobb 
mailto:a...@oztotl.com>> wrote:

The registration count was indeed 381 people.


Allan

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other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any 
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Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion "Dust Bowl" 2010

2010-10-18 Thread Don Cooper 
And I must add - if you've EVER been caving - you've probably camped in way
dustier conditions!!

-WaV

On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 2:33 PM, Allan Cobb  wrote:

> The registration count was indeed 381 people.
>
>
> Allan
>
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
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>

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion "Dust Bowl" 2010

2010-10-18 Thread Allan Cobb 

The registration count was indeed 381 people.

Allan

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Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion "Dust Bowl" 2010

2010-10-18 Thread Don Cooper 
I think I heard "381"

-WaV

On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 12:16 PM, mark gee wrote:

> We want to know. How many showed up ?- not counting the unwanted guest from
> the party up the hill.
> Happy Caving!!
> --- On *Mon, 10/18/10, Carl Kunath * wrote:
>
>
> From: Carl Kunath 
>
> Subject: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion "Dust Bowl" 2010
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Date: Monday, October 18, 2010, 9:05 AM
>
>
>  Dusty?
> What dust?
> Never noticed a thing.
> Too busy laughing with old friends and making new ones.
> Had a great time!
>
> Many thanks to Allan and all the other, mostly unsung, heroes who make this
> event possible!
>
> ===Carl Kunath
>
>  --
> --
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Allan 
> Cobb
> *To:* 
> texascavers@texascavers.com
> *Sent:* Monday, October 18, 2010 8:47 AM
> *Subject:* [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion "Dust Bowl" 2010
>
> Howdy y'all,
>
> TCR is a great event because it is attended by really great people. Thanks
> to all those who came out.
>
> Yes, it was a little dusty.  That happens when it doesn't rain for a while.
>
> I did see lots and lots of people having fun and that is the whole point of
>
> TCR.
>
> I really want to thank the cooks for the great meal, the people who manned
> registration, Pete for the hot tub and sauna, the Terminal Syphons for a
> rockin' show, the vendors and organizations, and all the people who worked
> behind the scenes doing all the things that make TCR happen.  Thank you to
> everyone helped.
>
> This year we tried to find the dustiest spot we could, you'll have to come
> to TCR next year to see the next big surprise.
>
> See y'all next year,
> Allan
>
>
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: 
> texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>  --
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3203 - Release Date: 10/17/10
> 13:33:00
>
>
>

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion "Dust Bowl" 2010

2010-10-18 Thread mark gee 
We want to know. How many showed up ?- not counting the unwanted guest from the 
party up the hill.
Happy Caving!!
--- On Mon, 10/18/10, Carl Kunath  wrote:


From: Carl Kunath 
Subject: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion "Dust Bowl" 2010
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com
Date: Monday, October 18, 2010, 9:05 AM





Dusty?
What dust?
Never noticed a thing.
Too busy laughing with old friends and making new ones.
Had a great time!
 
Many thanks to Allan and all the other, mostly unsung, heroes who make this 
event possible!
 
===Carl Kunath
 






- Original Message - 
From: Allan Cobb 
To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 8:47 AM
Subject: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion "Dust Bowl" 2010

Howdy y'all,

TCR is a great event because it is attended by really great people. Thanks 
to all those who came out.

Yes, it was a little dusty.  That happens when it doesn't rain for a while.

I did see lots and lots of people having fun and that is the whole point of 
TCR.

I really want to thank the cooks for the great meal, the people who manned 
registration, Pete for the hot tub and sauna, the Terminal Syphons for a 
rockin' show, the vendors and organizations, and all the people who worked 
behind the scenes doing all the things that make TCR happen.  Thank you to 
everyone helped.

This year we tried to find the dustiest spot we could, you'll have to come 
to TCR next year to see the next big surprise.

See y'all next year,
Allan 


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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3203 - Release Date: 10/17/10 
13:33:00

RE: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion "Dust Bowl" 2010 - Need YOUR Photos!

2010-10-18 Thread Mark . Alman 
 
Great job, yet again, Allan!
 
 
Be sure to get those cards, letters, and PHOTOS sent in to Butch and me so we 
can memorialize this historic event.
 
 
Butch's email for the TSA website is:   bfra...@maverickgrotto.org 
 
 
My email for the full color (ooh, ahh!) inside cover montage in the next TEXAS 
CAVER  is:   texascav...@yahoo.com
 
 
Thanks to Allan, Ellie, Stefan and his Caver Cooking Crew, the Greater Houston 
Grotto and Lyndon for running Registration, Dave "Cave" for his killer 
margaritas, the UT and Aggie Grottos for the Mud Pitathon, and to Fritz Holt 
for allowing me the use of his ATV to do a LOT of sightseeing around the ranch 
and almost getting myself lost!
 
 
Counting down the days till the next get-together April 1st to 3rd at Fort 
Clark Springs!
 
 
Mark
 
 
 
 



From: Allan Cobb [mailto:a...@oztotl.com]
Sent: Mon 10/18/2010 8:47 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion "Dust Bowl" 2010



Howdy y'all,

TCR is a great event because it is attended by really great people. Thanks
to all those who came out.

Yes, it was a little dusty.  That happens when it doesn't rain for a while.

I did see lots and lots of people having fun and that is the whole point of
TCR.

I really want to thank the cooks for the great meal, the people who manned
registration, Pete for the hot tub and sauna, the Terminal Syphons for a
rockin' show, the vendors and organizations, and all the people who worked
behind the scenes doing all the things that make TCR happen.  Thank you to
everyone helped.

This year we tried to find the dustiest spot we could, you'll have to come
to TCR next year to see the next big surprise.

See y'all next year,
Allan


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Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion "Dust Bowl" 2010

2010-10-18 Thread Nico Escamilla 
Indeed, what dust?
I didnt notice either, albeit my car and my shoes did.
Thanks everyone who worked to make it happen you know who you are, also
thanks to all my old friends for their contribution to the great time I had
this weekend and the new ones too.

Im ready for next year, where's it going to be?
Nico

On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 9:05 AM, Carl Kunath wrote:

>  Dusty?
> What dust?
> Never noticed a thing.
> Too busy laughing with old friends and making new ones.
> Had a great time!
>
> Many thanks to Allan and all the other, mostly unsung, heroes who make this
> event possible!
>
> ===Carl Kunath
>
>  --
> --
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Allan Cobb 
> *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com
> *Sent:* Monday, October 18, 2010 8:47 AM
> *Subject:* [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion "Dust Bowl" 2010
>
> Howdy y'all,
>
> TCR is a great event because it is attended by really great people. Thanks
> to all those who came out.
>
> Yes, it was a little dusty.  That happens when it doesn't rain for a while.
>
> I did see lots and lots of people having fun and that is the whole point of
>
> TCR.
>
> I really want to thank the cooks for the great meal, the people who manned
> registration, Pete for the hot tub and sauna, the Terminal Syphons for a
> rockin' show, the vendors and organizations, and all the people who worked
> behind the scenes doing all the things that make TCR happen.  Thank you to
> everyone helped.
>
> This year we tried to find the dustiest spot we could, you'll have to come
> to TCR next year to see the next big surprise.
>
> See y'all next year,
> Allan
>
>
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
> --
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3203 - Release Date: 10/17/10
> 13:33:00
>
>

[Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion "Dust Bowl" 2010

2010-10-18 Thread Carl Kunath 
Dusty?
What dust?
Never noticed a thing.
Too busy laughing with old friends and making new ones.
Had a great time!

Many thanks to Allan and all the other, mostly unsung, heroes who make this 
event possible!

===Carl Kunath






  - Original Message - 
  From: Allan Cobb 
  To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
  Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 8:47 AM
  Subject: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion "Dust Bowl" 2010


  Howdy y'all,

  TCR is a great event because it is attended by really great people. Thanks 
  to all those who came out.

  Yes, it was a little dusty.  That happens when it doesn't rain for a while.

  I did see lots and lots of people having fun and that is the whole point of 
  TCR.

  I really want to thank the cooks for the great meal, the people who manned 
  registration, Pete for the hot tub and sauna, the Terminal Syphons for a 
  rockin' show, the vendors and organizations, and all the people who worked 
  behind the scenes doing all the things that make TCR happen.  Thank you to 
  everyone helped.

  This year we tried to find the dustiest spot we could, you'll have to come 
  to TCR next year to see the next big surprise.

  See y'all next year,
  Allan 


  -
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  To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
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--



  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
  Version: 9.0.862 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3203 - Release Date: 10/17/10 
13:33:00

Re: [Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion "Dust Bowl" 2010

2010-10-18 Thread Amanda Scott 
Allan and everyone that helped make TCR possible, Thank You!  We had a
blast!

On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 8:47 AM, Allan Cobb  wrote:

> Howdy y'all,
>
> TCR is a great event because it is attended by really great people. Thanks
> to all those who came out.
>
> Yes, it was a little dusty.  That happens when it doesn't rain for a while.
>
> I did see lots and lots of people having fun and that is the whole point of
> TCR.
>
> I really want to thank the cooks for the great meal, the people who manned
> registration, Pete for the hot tub and sauna, the Terminal Syphons for a
> rockin' show, the vendors and organizations, and all the people who worked
> behind the scenes doing all the things that make TCR happen.  Thank you to
> everyone helped.
>
> This year we tried to find the dustiest spot we could, you'll have to come
> to TCR next year to see the next big surprise.
>
> See y'all next year,
> Allan
>
> -
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
>
>


-- 
Amanda Scott
979-229-9430
mamaarsc...@gmail.com

[Texascavers] Texas Cavers Reunion "Dust Bowl" 2010

2010-10-18 Thread Allan Cobb 

Howdy y'all,

TCR is a great event because it is attended by really great people. Thanks 
to all those who came out.


Yes, it was a little dusty.  That happens when it doesn't rain for a while.

I did see lots and lots of people having fun and that is the whole point of 
TCR.


I really want to thank the cooks for the great meal, the people who manned 
registration, Pete for the hot tub and sauna, the Terminal Syphons for a 
rockin' show, the vendors and organizations, and all the people who worked 
behind the scenes doing all the things that make TCR happen.  Thank you to 
everyone helped.


This year we tried to find the dustiest spot we could, you'll have to come 
to TCR next year to see the next big surprise.


See y'all next year,
Allan 



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texascavers Digest 18 Oct 2010 13:08:23 -0000 Issue 1170

2010-10-18 Thread texascavers-digest-help 

texascavers Digest 18 Oct 2010 13:08:23 - Issue 1170

Topics (messages 16331 through 16331):

Re: TCMA Funraising Breakfast
16331 by: Butch Fralia

Administrivia:

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--
--- Begin Message ---
And a great breakfast it was!

 

From: Allan B. Cobb [mailto:a...@oztotl.com] 
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 1:57 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] TCMA Funraising Breakfast

 

TCMA will be serving a fundraising breakfast on Sunday morning.  Come have
breakfast tacos, coffee, and juice for a $5 donation to help TCMA buy more
caves.  You benefit because you get breakfast and help a good cause at the
same time.

 

See y'all there!

Allan

--- End Message ---

RE: [Texascavers] TCMA Funraising Breakfast

2010-10-18 Thread Butch Fralia 
And a great breakfast it was!

 

From: Allan B. Cobb [mailto:a...@oztotl.com] 
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 1:57 PM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: [Texascavers] TCMA Funraising Breakfast

 

TCMA will be serving a fundraising breakfast on Sunday morning.  Come have
breakfast tacos, coffee, and juice for a $5 donation to help TCMA buy more
caves.  You benefit because you get breakfast and help a good cause at the
same time.

 

See y'all there!

Allan