Re: [Texascavers] Re: Boquillas crossing reopening - update
That's a step in the right direction. Common sense has not been thrown completely out the window. --Ediger On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 9:54 PM, Ed Goff wrote: > According to the San Antonio Express-News and Houston Chronicle, it will be > an unmanned, informal boat crossing open to the public as in the past, but > with a techno-gizmo for showing documents to officials at a remote facility. > Scheduled to open April 2012. > > Ed > > On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Ed Goff wrote: >> >> Heard on NPR that the border crossing at Boquillas in Big Bend is to be >> reopened. Brief article: http://bit.ly/h0F3ga >> >> Ed > > - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Re: Boquillas crossing reopening - update
According to the San Antonio Express-News and Houston Chronicle, it will be an unmanned, informal boat crossing open to the public as in the past, but with a techno-gizmo for showing documents to officials at a remote facility. Scheduled to open April 2012. Ed On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Ed Goff wrote: > Heard on NPR that the border crossing at Boquillas in Big Bend is to be > reopened. Brief article: http://bit.ly/h0F3ga > > Ed >
[ot_caving] Your lengthy post.
Dwight, I thoroughly enjoyed your interesting and informative post. When it comes to the Big Bend area, or whatever you choose to discuss, please do it more often. I assume you currently reside in Aurora, Colorado. Tell me what activities you are engaging in there. Apparently, the visibly armed, young, well paid (and macho) federal officers are of the US variety operating out of Alpine. These must also be the young officers who don't know (or care) about the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. I agree, best not to attempt to educate them to argue a point. The best to you in 2011. Fritz Fritz Holt Town & Country Insurance Agency 10575 Katy Freeway, Suite 150 Houston, Texas 77024 713-461-8979 713-464-2674 Fax Thank you for doing business with Town & Country Insurance. ** June through November our agency may become prohibited from binding coverage should a "Tropical Disturbance" enter the Gulf of Mexico or Caribbean Sea. In these cases we will be unable to bind coverage previously quoted until the storm leaves our area and our writing authority has been restored.** Coverage cannot be bound or altered using voice mail or e-mail without verification by a licensed representative.
texascavers Digest 6 Jan 2011 21:21:15 -0000 Issue 1221
texascavers Digest 6 Jan 2011 21:21:15 - Issue 1221 Topics (messages 16809 through 16823): Re: Vietnam Cave 16809 by: Rod Goke 16813 by: David Seeking correspondence with active caver, non NSS member 16810 by: Herman Miller NCRC Level I Cave Rescue call in Colorado Bend State Park in February 16811 by: Geary Schindel 16816 by: Tim Stich Re: Issues related to joining NSS 16812 by: David Re: Irix headlamp review 16814 by: David Re: some cavers in Puerto Rico 16815 by: David Boquillas crossing reopening 16817 by: Ed Goff 16818 by: Fritz Holt 16819 by: Gill Edigar 16820 by: Fritz Holt 16821 by: Herman Miller Re: Cross-border travel in the Big Bend. 16822 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net 16823 by: dirtdoc.comcast.net Administrivia: To subscribe to the digest, e-mail: To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail: To post to the list, e-mail: -- --- Begin Message --- Some of us armchair cavers are waiting for the day when we can fly through the cave on that 747 they claim will fit inside the passage. ;-) -Original Message- >From: Mary Thiesse >Sent: Jan 5, 2011 10:18 AM >To: David , TexasCavers >Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Vietnam Cave > >>I don't know how many caver's feel they have ever "conquered" a cave, >but this cave doesn't look >all that complicated to conquer. > >Let me guess David > >1. Armchair caving has made you a bit overly cocky? > >2. You are trying to piss off those individuals that do expedition caving? > >3. 2011 is already turning out to be a bad year for you? > >4. ??? > >MTZ > > > > > --- End Message --- --- Begin Message --- I feel an need to post a response to Mary's posting: If I came across opinionated or cocky in my response to the article, that was not the intention. Armchair caving is not the culprit, but living for years away from caves can have detrimental mental effects to a person who loves caves. I call it speleodeprivation. ( maybe Don knows the correct word for this illness. ) Also, suffering from Grumpy Old Man syndrome does not help. I was referring only to the choice of wording of the author and have great respect for expedition cavers, and could use the word jealous that I wasn't part of it. For example, if one bolt breaks, the belay system will catch the caver and he will not fall to his death, if he is caving properly.So calling me cocky just because I am correct is not kosher.The hyped-up style of writing about caving used to not be acceptable.I say it still is not. As for my interest in National Geographic, I own every issue back to 1945 or so, and quite a few back to the 1920's.I would love to work for National Geographic.That would be an awesome job, if it paid enough to pay my bills.I was in Copan in 1985 and a NG reporter was there and we had dinner at the hotel, and he told me he explored once the cave under the big pyramid at Teotihuacan ( or something to that effect ).I have been interested in this magazine for over 33 years. David Locklear Grumpy old armchair caver --- End Message --- --- Begin Message --- Hello all, I am seeking to establish email correspondence with those whom are active in our community though whom have never thought of joining the National Speleological Society (NSS). This is in support of a project I currently have running and I would like to gather additional viewpoints as I finalize my report on what has been gathered. This would be very low key and would just consist of a couple of emails back and forth as I gather your viewpoints on a number of NSS related subjects. Any and all assistance would be greatly appreciated Herman Miller her...@cavechat.org *There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter. * *Ernest Hemingway* --- End Message --- --- Begin Message --- Folks, I saw there is a Level I Cave Rescue Operations and Management Seminar that will be held from February 5 to 13, 2011 at Colorado Bend State Park, Bend, Texas. The NCRC courses are outstanding and also an excellent value. Contact DJ Walker for more information at 512 751-6010 Geary --- End Message --- --- Begin Message --- It is a great course and also a great place to do it. On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 6:22 PM, Geary Schindel wrote: > Folks, > > > > I saw there is a Level I Cave Rescue Operations and Management Seminar that > will be held from February 5 to 13, 2011 at Colorado Bend State Park, Bend, > Texas. The NCRC courses are outstanding and also an excellent value. > > > > Contact DJ Walker for more information at 512 751-6010 > > > > Geary > > > --- End Message --- --- Begin Message --- Certainly somebody has already written an article somewhere concer
[Texascavers] Cross-border travel in the Big Bend.
Cross-border travel (and ecological cooperation) in the Big Bend. The cave-related excuse for this post is the desire to explore caves along the border near Big Bend. Experience has shown that the best ones are on the Mexican side. Well, Gill, times have changed. When I lived in Big Bend (1967-1984), I crossed the border in both directions many, many times: La Linda bridge, Boquillas and Lajitas fords, and a number of other places. In those days a US Citizen could legally enter the USA at any time at any place in any way, the only requirement being that they "report on a timely basis" that they had done so. That usually meant that after I got home to Alpine I'd call the BP in Marfa and let them know what I had done. I was supposed to call Customs, but quickly learned that the local officers did not like me to do so as it was a nuisance. The BP had a dispatcher who would answer the telephone. They probably felt the same way, but were more polite. Most of them knew who I was. A bit more historic info: That was also the time they were just starting to get Viet Nam surplus sensing devices, and I set off a lot traversing the canyons and trails near the Rio Grande. I was in everybody's data base. Both my trucks, Tortuga I and later, Tortuga II (which I got from Ken Laidlaw) were painted Forrest Service Green, which was close enough to Choate Green to confuse a lot of people. The fact that I monitored BP and other agency radios was also informative and occasionally entertaining. (You could legally do that, too, as long as you did not tell anyone else what you had heard while monitoring their frequencies). We also had a Sheriff's Department radio in the truck so when Rescue Squad business was about I could communicate with the dispatcher in Alpine. The little Cessna I flew was similarly equipped, so I was pretty aware of what was going on along the border. The La Linda bridge was easy coming north, but was a hassle going south due to the Mexican officers. The only reason the bridge existed was to truck fluorspar out of Mexico to the broker on the railroad at Marathon, and the Mexicans collected fees. They could not issue papers for Americans headed south. I once got the Mexican papers at Del Rio (you could not get them at Ojinaga - a different jurisdiction) and crossed legally into Mexico at La Linda, but that was so difficult and fraught with so many problems that I never tried it again. It was a lot more practical to cross at Del Rio or Presidio and travel in Mexico, but getting to the southwest side of the Sierra del Carmen (south of Boquillas) was not easy nor fast. And, oh yes, driving from Boquillas to the La Linda bridge was (is?) an adventure in itself! There is a significant limestone mountain range in the way. I did find some small caves there, but there has been no serious search for Big Ones that I know of. Ron Ralph can tell you a great story about the time we drove north from Monterrey and crossed into the US at La Linda after having been run down by Operation Intercept funded heavily-armed Mexicans (supposedly Army) at a corral in the middle of nowhere, about 40 km south of La Linda. Fortunately we had a couple cases of Mexican beer, Mexican population planning posters from Salvadore Contreras, and Ron's glib tong. He played the Spanish-speaking student to my being the English-only innocent professor. But back to the Big Bend border today. It's totally different. And it seriously effects cross-border caving. Visibly armed, young, well-paid (and usually very macho feeling) federal officers are all over the place. A LOT of them. A very large operations center has been built in Alpine and check stations are on the roads. If they focused on traffic north out of the border zone, it would not be so bad. The occasional commercial bad-guy smuggler should be stopped. I consider myself reestablished and accepted again as a "local" in the Terlingua area, and we all know who is who. The tourists are obvious. Even more obvious are the Mexican nationals who are not local. The stand out like a sore thumb. The local families who have worked and lived for generations in the mutual economic zone along the river have been torn apart - some are "legal" and some are not. Economically, they are still badly needed, but most outside law does not have a clue as to who is who. And they don't care. Federal officers have completely disrupted centuries of culture in Big Bend and hassled tourists to the point of making them fearful of even stepping on the Mexican side of the Rio Grande in the middle of a canyon float trip. Truth is, the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo guaranteed free traffic across the Rio Grande by citizens of both nations, and that treaty trumps any US laws and Federal regulations. However, if you try to explain this to the (mo
[Texascavers] Re: Cross-border travel in the Big Bend.
Cross-border travel (and ecological cooperation) in the Big Bend. The cave-related excuse for this post is the desire to explore caves along the border near Big Bend. Experience has shown that the best ones are on the Mexican side. Well, Gill, times have changed. When I lived in Big Bend (1967-1984), I crossed the border in both directions many, many times: La Linda bridge, Boquillas and Lajitas fords, and a number of other places. In those days a US Citizen could legally enter the USA at any time at any place in any way, the only requirement being that they "report on a timely basis" that they had done so. That usually meant that after I got home to Alpine I'd call the BP in Marfa and let them know what I had done. I was supposed to call Customs, but quickly learned that the local officers did not like me to do so as it was a nuisance. The BP had a dispatcher who would answer the telephone. They probably felt the same way, but were more polite. Most of them knew who I was. A bit more historic info: That was also the time they were just starting to get Viet Nam surplus sensing devices, and I set off a lot traversing the canyons and trails near the Rio Grande. I was in everybody's data base. Both my trucks, Tortuga I and later, Tortuga II (which I got from Ken Laidlaw) were painted Forrest Service Green, which was close enough to Choate Green to confuse a lot of people. The fact that I monitored BP and other agency radios was also informative and occasionally entertaining. (You could legally do that, too, as long as you did not tell anyone else what you had heard while monitoring their frequencies). We also had a Sheriff's Department radio in the truck so when Rescue Squad business was about I could communicate with the dispatcher in Alpine. The little Cessna I flew was similarly equipped, so I was pretty aware of what was going on along the border. The La Linda bridge was easy coming north, but was a hassle going south due to the Mexican officers. The only reason the bridge existed was to truck fluorspar out of Mexico to the broker on the railroad at Marathon, and the Mexicans collected fees. They could not issue papers for Americans headed south. I once got the Mexican papers at Del Rio (you could not get them at Ojinaga - a different jurisdiction) and crossed legally into Mexico at La Linda, but that was so difficult and fraught with so many problems that I never tried it again. It was a lot more practical to cross at Del Rio or Presidio and travel in Mexico, but getting to the southwest side of the Sierra del Carmen (south of Boquillas) was not easy nor fast. And, oh yes, driving from Boquillas to the La Linda bridge was (is?) an adventure in itself! There is a significant limestone mountain range in the way. I did find some small caves there, but there has been no serious search for Big Ones that I know of. Ron Ralph can tell you a great story about the time we drove north from Monterrey and crossed into the US at La Linda after having been run down by Operation Intercept funded heavily-armed Mexicans (supposedly Army) at a corral in the middle of nowhere, about 40 km south of La Linda. Fortunately we had a couple cases of Mexican beer, Mexican population planning posters from Salvadore Contreras, and Ron's glib tong. He played the Spanish-speaking student to my being the English-only innocent professor. But back to the Big Bend border today. It's totally different. And it seriously effects cross-border caving. Visibly armed, young, well-paid (and usually very macho feeling) federal officers are all over the place. A LOT of them. A very large operations center has been built in Alpine and check stations are on the roads. If they focused on traffic north out of the border zone, it would not be so bad. The occasional commercial bad-guy smuggler should be stopped. I consider myself reestablished and accepted again as a "local" in the Terlingua area, and we all know who is who. The tourists are obvious. Even more obvious are the Mexican nationals who are not local. The stand out like a sore thumb. The local families who have worked and lived for generations in the mutual economic zone along the river have been torn apart - some are "legal" and some are not. Economically, they are still badly needed, but most outside law does not have a clue as to who is who. And they don't care. Federal officers have completely disrupted centuries of culture in Big Bend and hassled tourists to the point of making them fearful of even stepping on the Mexican side of the Rio Grande in the middle of a canyon float trip. Truth is, the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo guaranteed free traffic across the Rio Grande by citizens of both nations, and that treaty trumps any US laws and Federal regulation
Re: CONFIRM subscribe to texascavers@texascavers.com
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Re: FW: [Texascavers] Boquillas crossing reopening
If I may add my two cents and a bit of knowledge on the project I have also been told this crossing will be reserved for Park Service use only. Currently Mexican fire fighting teams are brought across the river several times a year to fight and or prevent wildfires in SW parks, this is what I believe this "POE" will be used for. At this time there are no plans on building additional bridges in the big bend area. The existing bridge at La Linda is heavily barricaded and there is damage present from the horrendous flooding the river experienced a few years ago. An additional hindrance to the re-opening of the La Linda Port of Entry is the fact that all infrastructure has since been destroyed with the exception of the bridge of course. Herman Miller
[ot_caving] RE: FW: [Texascavers] Boquillas crossing reopening
The Mexican citizens living in the small villages across the river should be allowed to cross from Candelaria and downstream to buy the necessities that are more plentiful and convenient rather than making much longer trips on questionable roads. Fritz -Original Message- From: bgillegi...@gmail.com [mailto:bgillegi...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Gill Edigar Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 9:38 AM To: Fritz Holt Cc: Mandy Holt; Jenny Holt; texascavers@texascavers.com; Off-Topic Texas Cavers Subject: Re: FW: [Texascavers] Boquillas crossing reopening Hell, the Gerstacker Bridge at La Linda was closed due to DHS paranoia. They wanted to tear it down. Fortunately better judgement and common sense prevailed. I've entered Texas from Chihuahua by fording the Rio Grande at Lajitas at least 2wice returning from caving in Mexico. There was nobody there to check us in. We tried to report our entry at the BP checkpoint near Marathon but nobody was home there either. The word is that the Boquillas Crossing would be for use by Park people and other officials only, not us common citizens on tourist trips. The words "building a crossing" were used. That makes it sound like they'd be putting in a bridge. It would be a long one. Right now there's only a gravel bottomed ford--or, at least, was the last time I was there. www.hispanicallyspeakingnews.com --Ediger - Give this to a friend: ot-subscr...@texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: ot-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: ot-h...@texascavers.com
Re: FW: [Texascavers] Boquillas crossing reopening
Hell, the Gerstacker Bridge at La Linda was closed due to DHS paranoia. They wanted to tear it down. Fortunately better judgement and common sense prevailed. I've entered Texas from Chihuahua by fording the Rio Grande at Lajitas at least 2wice returning from caving in Mexico. There was nobody there to check us in. We tried to report our entry at the BP checkpoint near Marathon but nobody was home there either. The word is that the Boquillas Crossing would be for use by Park people and other officials only, not us common citizens on tourist trips. The words "building a crossing" were used. That makes it sound like they'd be putting in a bridge. It would be a long one. Right now there's only a gravel bottomed ford--or, at least, was the last time I was there. www.hispanicallyspeakingnews.com --Ediger - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[ot_caving] Re: FW: [Texascavers] Boquillas crossing reopening
In regard to the crisis caused by the cartels - I wonder who might think closing all borders and requiring Mexico to invoke its military (ie. Air Force) against the cartels might be the unavoidable solution to this country's meltdown? -WaV On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 9:08 AM, Fritz Holt wrote: > This can’t be soon enough for the poor Mexican citizens that would like > to buy US staples. A supervised crossing is needed at Lajitas for the same > purpose. > > > > Dad > > > -- > > *From:* edwin.g...@gmail.com [mailto:edwin.g...@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Ed > Goff > *Sent:* Thursday, January 06, 2011 8:36 AM > *To:* texascavers@texascavers.com > *Subject:* [Texascavers] Boquillas crossing reopening > > > > Heard on NPR that the border crossing at Boquillas in Big Bend is to be > reopened. Brief article: http://bit.ly/h0F3ga > > Ed >
FW: [Texascavers] Boquillas crossing reopening
This can't be soon enough for the poor Mexican citizens that would like to buy US staples. A supervised crossing is needed at Lajitas for the same purpose. Dad From: edwin.g...@gmail.com [mailto:edwin.g...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Ed Goff Sent: Thursday, January 06, 2011 8:36 AM To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Boquillas crossing reopening Heard on NPR that the border crossing at Boquillas in Big Bend is to be reopened. Brief article: http://bit.ly/h0F3ga Ed
CONFIRM subscribe to texascavers@texascavers.com
Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the texascavers@texascavers.com mailing list. I'm working for my owner, who can be reached at texascavers-ow...@texascavers.com. I respectfully request your permission to add edwin.g...@gmail.com to the subscribers of the texascavers mailing list. This request either came from you, or it has already been verified by the potential subscriber. To confirm, please send an empty reply to this address: texascavers-tc.1294324266.bbmgdkknfdckkboakjkk-edwin.goff=gmail@texascavers.com Usually, this happens when you just hit the "reply" button. If this does not work, simply copy the address and paste it into the "To:" field of a new message. If you don't approve, simply ignore this message. Thank you for your help! --- Administrative commands for the texascavers list --- I can handle administrative requests automatically. Please do not send them to the list address! Instead, send your message to the correct command address: For help and a description of available commands, send a message to: To subscribe to the list, send a message to: To remove your address from the list, just send a message to the address in the ``List-Unsubscribe'' header of any list message. If you haven't changed addresses since subscribing, you can also send a message to: For addition or removal of addresses, I'll send a confirmation message to that address. When you receive it, simply reply to it to complete the transaction. If you need to get in touch with the human owner of this list, please send a message to: Please include a FORWARDED list message with ALL HEADERS intact to make it easier to help you. --- Enclosed is a copy of the request I received. Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23421 invoked by uid 89); 6 Jan 2011 14:31:06 - Received: from unknown (HELO mail-qw0-f47.google.com) (209.85.216.47) by 192.168.254.10 with SMTP; 6 Jan 2011 14:31:06 - Received: by qwi2 with SMTP id 2so903191qwi.6 for ; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 06:38:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:reply-to :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=FIFSZTYL77EREvRez1BhF9ZcDeYCqRaj23yhVQJjlVo=; b=fqeftbYI2HGKZ8JSzanf956trjuCseQ+2FT1+DTNthll+5k8GCg2KddvDjzv3JcoxZ wM9tScKolun/m4rK357Fsn/mRDppcy1b1MxHb8Syks10gKuWHfqtGTaa2SH3e/L+pvhF hGGTLSOJ595wlJrdHW5KrAjFVvr2OKIinS7o8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type; b=ZUaDGXz5hgupknVF+56NmC6AZhjngIccCQeaRZOYJ9SJT5lcp0nIh7ntMZTGMp1SAG iwBCM8n/C9pWDqCPB5zA4FR97xsWnVJnSsJzup82PQyMA1zR7KPcYP57P1znwodMlgcJ Ui1VWUEpbmZALz6yN0UmteEm588V0DXjMy+vo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.183.66 with SMTP id cf2mr21577266qcb.90.1294324683573; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 06:38:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.60.78 with HTTP; Thu, 6 Jan 2011 06:38:03 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: eg...@rice.edu In-Reply-To: <1294324201.23392.ez...@texascavers.com> References: <1294324201.23392.ez...@texascavers.com> List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 08:38:03 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: confirm subscribe to texascavers@texascavers.com From: Ed Goff To: texascavers-sc.1294324201.ocikdmbiakkoelnfoola-edwin.goff=gmail@texascavers.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163646dacefd0ad904992e7275 --00163646dacefd0ad904992e7275 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 8:30 AM, wrote: > Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the > texascavers@texascavers.com mailing list. > > I'm working for my owner, who can be reached > at texascavers-ow...@texascavers.com. > > To confirm that you would like > > edwin.g...@gmail.com > > added to the texascavers mailing list, please send > an empty reply to this address: > > texascavers-sc.1294324201.ocikdmbiakkoelnfoola-edwin.goff=gmail.com@ > texascavers.com > > Usually, this happens when you just hit the "reply" button. > If this does not work, simply copy the address and paste it into > the "To:" field of a new message. > > This confirmation serves two purposes. First, it verifies that I am able > to get mail through to you. Second, it protects you in case someone > forges a subscription request in your name. > > Some mail programs are broken and cannot handle long addresses. If you > cannot reply to this request, instead send a message to > and put the > entire address listed above into the "Subject:" line. > > > --- Administrative commands for the texascavers list --- > > I can handle administrative requests automatically. Please > do not send them to the list address! Instead, send > your message to the correct command address: > > For help and a description of available commands, send a messag
[Texascavers] Boquillas crossing reopening
Heard on NPR that the border crossing at Boquillas in Big Bend is to be reopened. Brief article: http://bit.ly/h0F3ga Ed
Re: [Texascavers] NCRC Level I Cave Rescue call in Colorado Bend State Park in February
It is a great course and also a great place to do it. On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 6:22 PM, Geary Schindel wrote: > Folks, > > > > I saw there is a Level I Cave Rescue Operations and Management Seminar that > will be held from February 5 to 13, 2011 at Colorado Bend State Park, Bend, > Texas. The NCRC courses are outstanding and also an excellent value. > > > > Contact DJ Walker for more information at 512 751-6010 > > > > Geary > > >
[PBSS] Amazing Maze trip
All, So far the weekend of the 22nd looks like it for Amazing Maze. Waiting to hear from the TCMA rep. Hope to finalize by our meeting the 11th. Don't forget: Because A.M. is on UT Lands and managed by TCMA everyone who goes has to be a TCMA member and sign a release for TCMA records. I prefer that people show up as TCMA members but I can bring membership forms and collect $$ at the property before we go in. Membership info at: http://www.tcmacaves.org/financial/membership.html There is a student rate. Jacqui ___ PBSS mailing list p...@caver.net http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/pbss_caver.net
