[Texascavers] NSS Questions USFWS on Bat Death Estimate

[Alex Sproul]

Posted on behalf of NSS WNS Liaison Peter Youngbaer:

Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:31 pm

The NSS sent a six-page letter to U.S. Fish and Wildlife Director 
Daniel Ashe requesting that USFWS publicly release its data and 
methodology for arriving at it's recent estimate of "at least 5.7 - 6.7 
million" bat deaths from WNS. The NSS also provided detailed 
scientific data indicating why it feels the USFWS estimate is 
significantly higher than available research would support.

The letter is posted on the NSS' WNS website, and linked here: 
http://www.caves.org/WNS/Ashe_Bat_Estimate_Letter_1-24-12.pdf

A press release has been sent to various media outlets, is also 
posted on the website, and linked here:

http://www.caves.org/WNS/Press_Release_on_Bat_Death_Estimate.
pdf

Peter Youngbaer
NSS 16161 CM FE
WNS Liaison
Cave Softly; Cave Cleanly
For the latest WNS info, check the NSS WNS website: 
http://www.caves.org/WNS

[Texascavers] NSS Questions USFWS on Bat Death Estimate

[Alex Sproul]

Posted on behalf of NSS WNS Liaison Peter Youngbaer:

Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:31 pm

The NSS sent a six-page letter to U.S. Fish and Wildlife Director 
Daniel Ashe requesting that USFWS publicly release its data and 
methodology for arriving at it's recent estimate of "at least 5.7 - 6.7 
million" bat deaths from WNS. The NSS also provided detailed 
scientific data indicating why it feels the USFWS estimate is 
significantly higher than available research would support.

The letter is posted on the NSS' WNS website, and linked here: 
http://www.caves.org/WNS/Ashe_Bat_Estimate_Letter_1-24-12.pdf

A press release has been sent to various media outlets, is also 
posted on the website, and linked here:

http://www.caves.org/WNS/Press_Release_on_Bat_Death_Estimate.
pdf

Peter Youngbaer
NSS 16161 CM FE
WNS Liaison
Cave Softly; Cave Cleanly
For the latest WNS info, check the NSS WNS website: 
http://www.caves.org/WNS

[Texascavers] NSS Questions USFWS on Bat Death Estimate

[Alex Sproul]

Posted on behalf of NSS WNS Liaison Peter Youngbaer:

Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:31 pm

The NSS sent a six-page letter to U.S. Fish and Wildlife Director 
Daniel Ashe requesting that USFWS publicly release its data and 
methodology for arriving at it's recent estimate of "at least 5.7 - 6.7 
million" bat deaths from WNS. The NSS also provided detailed 
scientific data indicating why it feels the USFWS estimate is 
significantly higher than available research would support.

The letter is posted on the NSS' WNS website, and linked here: 
http://www.caves.org/WNS/Ashe_Bat_Estimate_Letter_1-24-12.pdf

A press release has been sent to various media outlets, is also 
posted on the website, and linked here:

http://www.caves.org/WNS/Press_Release_on_Bat_Death_Estimate.
pdf

Peter Youngbaer
NSS 16161 CM FE
WNS Liaison
Cave Softly; Cave Cleanly
For the latest WNS info, check the NSS WNS website: 
http://www.caves.org/WNS

Re: [Texascavers] New Ascender

[Ron R]

One of the founders and engineers is my neighbor here in Wimberley.  I have
not talked to him lately, so I did not know they were making ascenders.  I
will ask him about them  next time I see him.

On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 8:33 PM, Mark Minton  wrote:

>Here's an ascender I haven't seen before:  <
> http://www.climbtechgear.com/**ascenders/>.
>  It's made by a reputable climbing gear manufacturer, so I presume it's
> safe and effective.  It is significantly less expensive than comparable
> handled ascenders, which generally go for $60 - $70.
>
> Mark
>
> Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
> Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org
>
> --**--**-
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> texascavers-unsubscribe@**texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: 
> texascavers-help@texascavers.**com
>
>


-- 
Ron Rutherford

Re: [Texascavers] New Ascender

[Ron R]

One of the founders and engineers is my neighbor here in Wimberley.  I have
not talked to him lately, so I did not know they were making ascenders.  I
will ask him about them  next time I see him.

On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 8:33 PM, Mark Minton  wrote:

>Here's an ascender I haven't seen before:  <
> http://www.climbtechgear.com/**ascenders/>.
>  It's made by a reputable climbing gear manufacturer, so I presume it's
> safe and effective.  It is significantly less expensive than comparable
> handled ascenders, which generally go for $60 - $70.
>
> Mark
>
> Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
> Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org
>
> --**--**-
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> texascavers-unsubscribe@**texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: 
> texascavers-help@texascavers.**com
>
>


-- 
Ron Rutherford

Re: [Texascavers] New Ascender

[Ron R]

One of the founders and engineers is my neighbor here in Wimberley.  I have
not talked to him lately, so I did not know they were making ascenders.  I
will ask him about them  next time I see him.

On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 8:33 PM, Mark Minton  wrote:

>Here's an ascender I haven't seen before:  <
> http://www.climbtechgear.com/**ascenders/>.
>  It's made by a reputable climbing gear manufacturer, so I presume it's
> safe and effective.  It is significantly less expensive than comparable
> handled ascenders, which generally go for $60 - $70.
>
> Mark
>
> Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
> Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org
>
> --**--**-
> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
> texascavers-unsubscribe@**texascavers.com
> For additional commands, e-mail: 
> texascavers-help@texascavers.**com
>
>


-- 
Ron Rutherford

[Texascavers] book review--paleoecology in Hawaii

[Mixon Bill]

Back to the Future in the Caves of Kauaʻi: A Scientist's Adventures in  
the Dark. David A. Burney. Yale University Press, New Haven; 2011. 6  
by 9 inches, xv+198 pages. Hardbound ISBN 978-0-300-15094-0, $28;  
softbound ISBN 978-0-300-17209-6, $18.


In pursuit of his interest in paleoecology, or the study of how the  
arrival of humans has changed ecosystems worldwide, the author began  
an investigation in Makauwahi Cave on the southeastern coast of the  
Hawaiian island of Kauaʻi. A solution cave in eolianite limestone that  
also spent some time as a sea cave, it now consists mainly of a large,  
open collapse sinkhole. Excavation and coring of the deposits on the  
floor of the sink have disclosed a lot of information about the  
changes in the island's flora and fauna since the arrival of  
Polynesians about a thousand years ago and then Europeans in 1788.  
Before it's discovery by man, the only mammal on the island was a bat.  
A large fraction of the plants and animals on the Hawaiian islands  
were unable to cope with the the Polynesian's rats, dogs, and pigs and  
the European's goats, not to mention many invasive plants introduced  
accidentally or on purpose. Many have gone extinct, and hundreds of  
officially endangered species hang on only in remote and inaccessible  
areas.


More recently, the author and his wife have spearheaded restoration of  
the ancient ecology in the sinkhole and some of the surrounding area.  
The Makauwahi Cave Reserve is now a popular attraction due to the  
thriving native plants. The book is in a popular style, but has many  
references to the scientific literature. Very readable, if not exactly  
cavey in the usual sense.--Bill Mixon


Never play leadfrog with a unicorn.

You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
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[Texascavers] book review--paleoecology in Hawaii

[Mixon Bill]

Back to the Future in the Caves of Kauaʻi: A Scientist's Adventures in  
the Dark. David A. Burney. Yale University Press, New Haven; 2011. 6  
by 9 inches, xv+198 pages. Hardbound ISBN 978-0-300-15094-0, $28;  
softbound ISBN 978-0-300-17209-6, $18.


In pursuit of his interest in paleoecology, or the study of how the  
arrival of humans has changed ecosystems worldwide, the author began  
an investigation in Makauwahi Cave on the southeastern coast of the  
Hawaiian island of Kauaʻi. A solution cave in eolianite limestone that  
also spent some time as a sea cave, it now consists mainly of a large,  
open collapse sinkhole. Excavation and coring of the deposits on the  
floor of the sink have disclosed a lot of information about the  
changes in the island's flora and fauna since the arrival of  
Polynesians about a thousand years ago and then Europeans in 1788.  
Before it's discovery by man, the only mammal on the island was a bat.  
A large fraction of the plants and animals on the Hawaiian islands  
were unable to cope with the the Polynesian's rats, dogs, and pigs and  
the European's goats, not to mention many invasive plants introduced  
accidentally or on purpose. Many have gone extinct, and hundreds of  
officially endangered species hang on only in remote and inaccessible  
areas.


More recently, the author and his wife have spearheaded restoration of  
the ancient ecology in the sinkhole and some of the surrounding area.  
The Makauwahi Cave Reserve is now a popular attraction due to the  
thriving native plants. The book is in a popular style, but has many  
references to the scientific literature. Very readable, if not exactly  
cavey in the usual sense.--Bill Mixon


Never play leadfrog with a unicorn.

You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org


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[Texascavers] book review--paleoecology in Hawaii

[Mixon Bill]

Back to the Future in the Caves of Kauaʻi: A Scientist's Adventures in  
the Dark. David A. Burney. Yale University Press, New Haven; 2011. 6  
by 9 inches, xv+198 pages. Hardbound ISBN 978-0-300-15094-0, $28;  
softbound ISBN 978-0-300-17209-6, $18.


In pursuit of his interest in paleoecology, or the study of how the  
arrival of humans has changed ecosystems worldwide, the author began  
an investigation in Makauwahi Cave on the southeastern coast of the  
Hawaiian island of Kauaʻi. A solution cave in eolianite limestone that  
also spent some time as a sea cave, it now consists mainly of a large,  
open collapse sinkhole. Excavation and coring of the deposits on the  
floor of the sink have disclosed a lot of information about the  
changes in the island's flora and fauna since the arrival of  
Polynesians about a thousand years ago and then Europeans in 1788.  
Before it's discovery by man, the only mammal on the island was a bat.  
A large fraction of the plants and animals on the Hawaiian islands  
were unable to cope with the the Polynesian's rats, dogs, and pigs and  
the European's goats, not to mention many invasive plants introduced  
accidentally or on purpose. Many have gone extinct, and hundreds of  
officially endangered species hang on only in remote and inaccessible  
areas.


More recently, the author and his wife have spearheaded restoration of  
the ancient ecology in the sinkhole and some of the surrounding area.  
The Makauwahi Cave Reserve is now a popular attraction due to the  
thriving native plants. The book is in a popular style, but has many  
references to the scientific literature. Very readable, if not exactly  
cavey in the usual sense.--Bill Mixon


Never play leadfrog with a unicorn.

You may "reply" to the address this message
came from, but for long-term use, save:
Personal: bmi...@alumni.uchicago.edu
AMCS: edi...@amcs-pubs.org or sa...@amcs-pubs.org


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Re: [Texascavers] Grotto liability when loaning gear

[David Ochel]

Heya,

The UT Grotto, as far as I can speak for it, deals with this by not  
owning (and therefore not loaning out) any vertical gear or ropes.


As for the long story, gear's loaned out on a personal basis only,  
from folks who own it. Sort of. Is that better for the individual  
loaning out the gear, in terms of liability? Doubt it. But at least it  
makes clear who's responsible for maintaining it, rather than it all  
being in a large pool and not being tracked and/or cared for.


Cheers,
David

Quoting Mallory Mayeux  at Tue, 24 Jan 2012  
09:49:08 -0600 in :



Good morning Cavers!


The Houston grotto is in the process of revamping a very old constitution
and updating grotto policies, and 'loaner gear' is an issue we're currently
discussing.

Rather than embark on a ton of research and re-invent the wheel, I wanted
to reach out to the Texas caving community for input. What are the
liability issues around loaning grotto-owned cave gear to grotto members?



For example, if I as a grotto officer loaned a piece of grotto-owned
vertical equipment to member of my grotto, and that equipment failed and
the member injured themselves in some way, could our grotto be held
responsible? Would signed waivers absolve our grotto of all responsibility?
Does the NSS have some sort of insurance that covers grottos in worst-case
scenarios?


How do you other Texas grottos mitigate risk when/if you loan out gear? DO
you ever loan out seat harnesses, etc? Has your grotto ever been put in a
situation where you were potentially liable for any injury? If so, is there
any advice you would give another grotto when laying out equipment
guidelines?

Thanks for the input in advance!

Mallory Mayeux
Greater Houston Grotto Secretary







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Re: [Texascavers] Grotto liability when loaning gear

[David Ochel]

Heya,

The UT Grotto, as far as I can speak for it, deals with this by not  
owning (and therefore not loaning out) any vertical gear or ropes.


As for the long story, gear's loaned out on a personal basis only,  
from folks who own it. Sort of. Is that better for the individual  
loaning out the gear, in terms of liability? Doubt it. But at least it  
makes clear who's responsible for maintaining it, rather than it all  
being in a large pool and not being tracked and/or cared for.


Cheers,
David

Quoting Mallory Mayeux  at Tue, 24 Jan 2012  
09:49:08 -0600 in :



Good morning Cavers!


The Houston grotto is in the process of revamping a very old constitution
and updating grotto policies, and 'loaner gear' is an issue we're currently
discussing.

Rather than embark on a ton of research and re-invent the wheel, I wanted
to reach out to the Texas caving community for input. What are the
liability issues around loaning grotto-owned cave gear to grotto members?



For example, if I as a grotto officer loaned a piece of grotto-owned
vertical equipment to member of my grotto, and that equipment failed and
the member injured themselves in some way, could our grotto be held
responsible? Would signed waivers absolve our grotto of all responsibility?
Does the NSS have some sort of insurance that covers grottos in worst-case
scenarios?


How do you other Texas grottos mitigate risk when/if you loan out gear? DO
you ever loan out seat harnesses, etc? Has your grotto ever been put in a
situation where you were potentially liable for any injury? If so, is there
any advice you would give another grotto when laying out equipment
guidelines?

Thanks for the input in advance!

Mallory Mayeux
Greater Houston Grotto Secretary







-
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To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

Re: [Texascavers] Grotto liability when loaning gear

[David Ochel]

Heya,

The UT Grotto, as far as I can speak for it, deals with this by not  
owning (and therefore not loaning out) any vertical gear or ropes.


As for the long story, gear's loaned out on a personal basis only,  
from folks who own it. Sort of. Is that better for the individual  
loaning out the gear, in terms of liability? Doubt it. But at least it  
makes clear who's responsible for maintaining it, rather than it all  
being in a large pool and not being tracked and/or cared for.


Cheers,
David

Quoting Mallory Mayeux  at Tue, 24 Jan 2012  
09:49:08 -0600 in :



Good morning Cavers!


The Houston grotto is in the process of revamping a very old constitution
and updating grotto policies, and 'loaner gear' is an issue we're currently
discussing.

Rather than embark on a ton of research and re-invent the wheel, I wanted
to reach out to the Texas caving community for input. What are the
liability issues around loaning grotto-owned cave gear to grotto members?



For example, if I as a grotto officer loaned a piece of grotto-owned
vertical equipment to member of my grotto, and that equipment failed and
the member injured themselves in some way, could our grotto be held
responsible? Would signed waivers absolve our grotto of all responsibility?
Does the NSS have some sort of insurance that covers grottos in worst-case
scenarios?


How do you other Texas grottos mitigate risk when/if you loan out gear? DO
you ever loan out seat harnesses, etc? Has your grotto ever been put in a
situation where you were potentially liable for any injury? If so, is there
any advice you would give another grotto when laying out equipment
guidelines?

Thanks for the input in advance!

Mallory Mayeux
Greater Houston Grotto Secretary







-
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To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
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[Texascavers] New Ascender

[Mark Minton]

Here's an ascender I haven't seen 
before:  .  It's made by a 
reputable climbing gear manufacturer, so I presume it's safe and 
effective.  It is significantly less expensive than comparable 
handled ascenders, which generally go for $60 - $70.


Mark

Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 



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[Texascavers] New Ascender

[Mark Minton]

Here's an ascender I haven't seen 
before:  .  It's made by a 
reputable climbing gear manufacturer, so I presume it's safe and 
effective.  It is significantly less expensive than comparable 
handled ascenders, which generally go for $60 - $70.


Mark

Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 



-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] New Ascender

[Mark Minton]

Here's an ascender I haven't seen 
before:  .  It's made by a 
reputable climbing gear manufacturer, so I presume it's safe and 
effective.  It is significantly less expensive than comparable 
handled ascenders, which generally go for $60 - $70.


Mark

Please reply to mmin...@caver.net
Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org 



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texascavers Digest 26 Jan 2012 02:04:16 -0000 Issue 1479

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 26 Jan 2012 02:04:16 - Issue 1479

Topics (messages 19382 through 19387):

Re: Ministers: Any successful in-cave marriages?
19382 by: Stefan Creaser

Grotto liability when loaning gear
19383 by: Mallory Mayeux
19384 by: Geary Schindel

lender gear
19385 by: Gill Edigar

Blind fish article
19386 by: caverarch

TCMA Special Election
19387 by: Saj Zappitello

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:


To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail:


To post to the list, e-mail:



--
--- Begin Message ---
I guess it all goes wrong when you have to remove the lead underpants to wash 
them?

Stefan

From: caverarch [mailto:cavera...@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 4:34 PM
To: wavyca...@gmail.com; fr...@frankbinney.com
Cc: Texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: Ministers: Any successful in-cave marriages?

Don and all,

It is my hypothesis simply that (1) approximately 95% of cavers are inherently 
naughty to a greater or lesser (but mostly greater) degree, and therefore 
predisposed to some degree of core drama reaction; (2) a critical mass of 
naughtiness necessary to begin a spontaneous, self-sustaining  total drama 
meltdown is not generally achieved in caver-to-caver marriages, at least during 
the first half-life (six months) of the marriage; (3) the cumulative time 
factor is altered, however, if the bonding ceremony takes place underground.  
Such an underground transaction tends to enrich the naughty isotope to an 
inherently unstable level in one or both parties, leading to an 
alcohol-lubricated cascading series of unions that result in a 
daisy-chain-reaction meltdown.

All these effects can be ameliorated, however, by lead underpants for both 
parties.

Roger

-Original Message-
From: Don Cooper 
To: Frank Binney 
Cc: Cavers, Texas 
Sent: Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:10 am
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: Ministers: Any successful in-cave marriages?

I believe, that due to planar topological relations to all parties

involved, a non-resolving dimensional instability begins to resonate

between two sexual partners who undergo a social ceremony while inside

a hole.  That resonance creates frionic irritation within the medula

oblongata - totally wrecking the peace, love and happiness which

otherwise would have possibly bonded such a couple.

-DC



On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Frank Binney 
mailto:fr...@frankbinney.com>> wrote:

> Have any marriages lasted that had their wedding celebrations in a cave?

> I recall a number of underground weddings over the years officiated by

> Reverend Ediger or other ordained cavers but as far as I recall all ended in

> divorce.

> --Frank

>

>

> On 1/18/12 9:02 AM, "Gill Edigar" mailto:gi...@att.net>> wrote:

>

>> In April of 1969, just before or just after a trip to Golondrinas, I

>> sent in a 6-cent postcard with my and Jette Feduska's names and

>> addresses on it--no money, no nuthin else--and received our

>> ordinations in the Universal Life Church a few days later. For 3-cents

>> I got ordained. Carta Valley SUCKS was in full swing at the time and I

>> performed baptisms at several caver functions ranging from State

>> College, Pennsylvania to California (and an NSS BOG party in Buda)

>> with water from Oztotl's Cave in Mexico provided by the Bittingers. In

>> the early '80s I joined the rabble at the Church of the Sub-Genius as

>> the Rev Theophilus Punnoval and still have and wear my Bob Dobbs shirt

>> (printed in my silk screen shop at Mockingburd 300). I've probably

>> done something somewhat fewer than 30 weddings in all--a few in caves,

>> on mountain tops and rivers, and on rope high up a cliff.

>>

>> --Ediger

>>

>> -

>> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com

>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
>> texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com

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>> texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

>>

>>

>

>

>

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-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are 
confide

texascavers Digest 26 Jan 2012 02:04:16 -0000 Issue 1479

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 26 Jan 2012 02:04:16 - Issue 1479

Topics (messages 19382 through 19387):

Re: Ministers: Any successful in-cave marriages?
19382 by: Stefan Creaser

Grotto liability when loaning gear
19383 by: Mallory Mayeux
19384 by: Geary Schindel

lender gear
19385 by: Gill Edigar

Blind fish article
19386 by: caverarch

TCMA Special Election
19387 by: Saj Zappitello

Administrivia:

To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:


To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail:


To post to the list, e-mail:



--
--- Begin Message ---
I guess it all goes wrong when you have to remove the lead underpants to wash 
them?

Stefan

From: caverarch [mailto:cavera...@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 4:34 PM
To: wavyca...@gmail.com; fr...@frankbinney.com
Cc: Texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: Ministers: Any successful in-cave marriages?

Don and all,

It is my hypothesis simply that (1) approximately 95% of cavers are inherently 
naughty to a greater or lesser (but mostly greater) degree, and therefore 
predisposed to some degree of core drama reaction; (2) a critical mass of 
naughtiness necessary to begin a spontaneous, self-sustaining  total drama 
meltdown is not generally achieved in caver-to-caver marriages, at least during 
the first half-life (six months) of the marriage; (3) the cumulative time 
factor is altered, however, if the bonding ceremony takes place underground.  
Such an underground transaction tends to enrich the naughty isotope to an 
inherently unstable level in one or both parties, leading to an 
alcohol-lubricated cascading series of unions that result in a 
daisy-chain-reaction meltdown.

All these effects can be ameliorated, however, by lead underpants for both 
parties.

Roger

-Original Message-
From: Don Cooper 
To: Frank Binney 
Cc: Cavers, Texas 
Sent: Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:10 am
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: Ministers: Any successful in-cave marriages?

I believe, that due to planar topological relations to all parties

involved, a non-resolving dimensional instability begins to resonate

between two sexual partners who undergo a social ceremony while inside

a hole.  That resonance creates frionic irritation within the medula

oblongata - totally wrecking the peace, love and happiness which

otherwise would have possibly bonded such a couple.

-DC



On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Frank Binney 
mailto:fr...@frankbinney.com>> wrote:

> Have any marriages lasted that had their wedding celebrations in a cave?

> I recall a number of underground weddings over the years officiated by

> Reverend Ediger or other ordained cavers but as far as I recall all ended in

> divorce.

> --Frank

>

>

> On 1/18/12 9:02 AM, "Gill Edigar" mailto:gi...@att.net>> wrote:

>

>> In April of 1969, just before or just after a trip to Golondrinas, I

>> sent in a 6-cent postcard with my and Jette Feduska's names and

>> addresses on it--no money, no nuthin else--and received our

>> ordinations in the Universal Life Church a few days later. For 3-cents

>> I got ordained. Carta Valley SUCKS was in full swing at the time and I

>> performed baptisms at several caver functions ranging from State

>> College, Pennsylvania to California (and an NSS BOG party in Buda)

>> with water from Oztotl's Cave in Mexico provided by the Bittingers. In

>> the early '80s I joined the rabble at the Church of the Sub-Genius as

>> the Rev Theophilus Punnoval and still have and wear my Bob Dobbs shirt

>> (printed in my silk screen shop at Mockingburd 300). I've probably

>> done something somewhat fewer than 30 weddings in all--a few in caves,

>> on mountain tops and rivers, and on rope high up a cliff.

>>

>> --Ediger

>>

>> -

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texascavers Digest 26 Jan 2012 02:04:16 -0000 Issue 1479

[texascavers-digest-help]

texascavers Digest 26 Jan 2012 02:04:16 - Issue 1479

Topics (messages 19382 through 19387):

Re: Ministers: Any successful in-cave marriages?
19382 by: Stefan Creaser

Grotto liability when loaning gear
19383 by: Mallory Mayeux
19384 by: Geary Schindel

lender gear
19385 by: Gill Edigar

Blind fish article
19386 by: caverarch

TCMA Special Election
19387 by: Saj Zappitello

Administrivia:

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--
--- Begin Message ---
I guess it all goes wrong when you have to remove the lead underpants to wash 
them?

Stefan

From: caverarch [mailto:cavera...@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 4:34 PM
To: wavyca...@gmail.com; fr...@frankbinney.com
Cc: Texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: Ministers: Any successful in-cave marriages?

Don and all,

It is my hypothesis simply that (1) approximately 95% of cavers are inherently 
naughty to a greater or lesser (but mostly greater) degree, and therefore 
predisposed to some degree of core drama reaction; (2) a critical mass of 
naughtiness necessary to begin a spontaneous, self-sustaining  total drama 
meltdown is not generally achieved in caver-to-caver marriages, at least during 
the first half-life (six months) of the marriage; (3) the cumulative time 
factor is altered, however, if the bonding ceremony takes place underground.  
Such an underground transaction tends to enrich the naughty isotope to an 
inherently unstable level in one or both parties, leading to an 
alcohol-lubricated cascading series of unions that result in a 
daisy-chain-reaction meltdown.

All these effects can be ameliorated, however, by lead underpants for both 
parties.

Roger

-Original Message-
From: Don Cooper 
To: Frank Binney 
Cc: Cavers, Texas 
Sent: Sun, Jan 22, 2012 12:10 am
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: Ministers: Any successful in-cave marriages?

I believe, that due to planar topological relations to all parties

involved, a non-resolving dimensional instability begins to resonate

between two sexual partners who undergo a social ceremony while inside

a hole.  That resonance creates frionic irritation within the medula

oblongata - totally wrecking the peace, love and happiness which

otherwise would have possibly bonded such a couple.

-DC



On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Frank Binney 
mailto:fr...@frankbinney.com>> wrote:

> Have any marriages lasted that had their wedding celebrations in a cave?

> I recall a number of underground weddings over the years officiated by

> Reverend Ediger or other ordained cavers but as far as I recall all ended in

> divorce.

> --Frank

>

>

> On 1/18/12 9:02 AM, "Gill Edigar" mailto:gi...@att.net>> wrote:

>

>> In April of 1969, just before or just after a trip to Golondrinas, I

>> sent in a 6-cent postcard with my and Jette Feduska's names and

>> addresses on it--no money, no nuthin else--and received our

>> ordinations in the Universal Life Church a few days later. For 3-cents

>> I got ordained. Carta Valley SUCKS was in full swing at the time and I

>> performed baptisms at several caver functions ranging from State

>> College, Pennsylvania to California (and an NSS BOG party in Buda)

>> with water from Oztotl's Cave in Mexico provided by the Bittingers. In

>> the early '80s I joined the rabble at the Church of the Sub-Genius as

>> the Rev Theophilus Punnoval and still have and wear my Bob Dobbs shirt

>> (printed in my silk screen shop at Mockingburd 300). I've probably

>> done something somewhat fewer than 30 weddings in all--a few in caves,

>> on mountain tops and rivers, and on rope high up a cliff.

>>

>> --Ediger

>>

>> -

>> Visit our website: http://texascavers.com

>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: 
>> texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com

>> For additional commands, e-mail: 
>> texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

>>

>>

>

>

>

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[Texascavers] TCMA Special Election

[Saj Zappitello]

The Texas Cave Management Association is calling a special election to
fill a Board of Directors position. At this time, we are requesting
nominations for director candidates because with the new ByLaws, we
are one Director short and need to rectify the situation. The director
will serve the remainder of the three year term: from March of this
year until December 31, 2014.

The election will take place by electronic ballot, much like the
general election last fall. The election will open on February 27 and
will run through March 12 close of business. Members must be in good
standing and up to date on payment of dues in order to participate in
the election. Members in good standing will be contacted via email by
the online ballot system. Paper ballots will also be available by
contacting the database committee. To vote in this eballot election,
be sure we have your current email address and that you are current in
your dues.

Coming soon, you can go to http://www.tcmacaves.org/whatsnew/ for
additional information on duties and responsibilities. If you know of
someone who might be a good candidate but might be reluctant to step
forward, contact the committee chair at saj.zappite...@tcmacaves.org,
and we will contact the proposed candidate on behalf of TCMA.

Sincerely,
TCMA Nominations Committee

-
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To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
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[Texascavers] TCMA Special Election

[Saj Zappitello]

The Texas Cave Management Association is calling a special election to
fill a Board of Directors position. At this time, we are requesting
nominations for director candidates because with the new ByLaws, we
are one Director short and need to rectify the situation. The director
will serve the remainder of the three year term: from March of this
year until December 31, 2014.

The election will take place by electronic ballot, much like the
general election last fall. The election will open on February 27 and
will run through March 12 close of business. Members must be in good
standing and up to date on payment of dues in order to participate in
the election. Members in good standing will be contacted via email by
the online ballot system. Paper ballots will also be available by
contacting the database committee. To vote in this eballot election,
be sure we have your current email address and that you are current in
your dues.

Coming soon, you can go to http://www.tcmacaves.org/whatsnew/ for
additional information on duties and responsibilities. If you know of
someone who might be a good candidate but might be reluctant to step
forward, contact the committee chair at saj.zappite...@tcmacaves.org,
and we will contact the proposed candidate on behalf of TCMA.

Sincerely,
TCMA Nominations Committee

-
Visit our website: http://texascavers.com
To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[Texascavers] TCMA Special Election

[Saj Zappitello]

The Texas Cave Management Association is calling a special election to
fill a Board of Directors position. At this time, we are requesting
nominations for director candidates because with the new ByLaws, we
are one Director short and need to rectify the situation. The director
will serve the remainder of the three year term: from March of this
year until December 31, 2014.

The election will take place by electronic ballot, much like the
general election last fall. The election will open on February 27 and
will run through March 12 close of business. Members must be in good
standing and up to date on payment of dues in order to participate in
the election. Members in good standing will be contacted via email by
the online ballot system. Paper ballots will also be available by
contacting the database committee. To vote in this eballot election,
be sure we have your current email address and that you are current in
your dues.

Coming soon, you can go to http://www.tcmacaves.org/whatsnew/ for
additional information on duties and responsibilities. If you know of
someone who might be a good candidate but might be reluctant to step
forward, contact the committee chair at saj.zappite...@tcmacaves.org,
and we will contact the proposed candidate on behalf of TCMA.

Sincerely,
TCMA Nominations Committee

-
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To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com
For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com

[TCMA-List] TCMA Special Election

[Saj Zappitello]

Dear Members,

The Texas Cave Management Association is calling a special election to
fill a Board of Directors position. At this time, we are requesting
nominations for director candidates because with the new ByLaws, we
are one Director short and need to rectify the situation. The director
will serve the remainder of the three year term: from March of this
year until December 31, 2014.

The election will take place by electronic ballot, much like the
general election last fall. The election will open on February 27 and
will run through March 12 close of business. Members must be in good
standing and up to date on payment of dues in order to participate in
the election. Members in good standing will be contacted via email by
the online ballot system. Paper ballots will also be available by
contacting the database committee. To vote in this eballot election,
be sure we have your current email address and that you are current in
your dues.

Coming soon, you can go to http://www.tcmacaves.org/whatsnew/ for
additional information on duties and responsibilities. If you know of
someone who might be a good candidate but might be reluctant to step
forward, contact the committee chair at saj.zappite...@tcmacaves.org,
and we will contact the proposed candidate on behalf of TCMA.

Sincerely,
TCMA Nominations Committee

___
www.tcmacaves.org

To subscribe to this list, send an e-mail to tcma-list-subscr...@tcmacaves.org

To Unsubscribe, send an e-mail to tcma-list-unsubscr...@tcmacaves.org.

[TCMA-List] TCMA Special Election

[Saj Zappitello]

Dear Members,

The Texas Cave Management Association is calling a special election to
fill a Board of Directors position. At this time, we are requesting
nominations for director candidates because with the new ByLaws, we
are one Director short and need to rectify the situation. The director
will serve the remainder of the three year term: from March of this
year until December 31, 2014.

The election will take place by electronic ballot, much like the
general election last fall. The election will open on February 27 and
will run through March 12 close of business. Members must be in good
standing and up to date on payment of dues in order to participate in
the election. Members in good standing will be contacted via email by
the online ballot system. Paper ballots will also be available by
contacting the database committee. To vote in this eballot election,
be sure we have your current email address and that you are current in
your dues.

Coming soon, you can go to http://www.tcmacaves.org/whatsnew/ for
additional information on duties and responsibilities. If you know of
someone who might be a good candidate but might be reluctant to step
forward, contact the committee chair at saj.zappite...@tcmacaves.org,
and we will contact the proposed candidate on behalf of TCMA.

Sincerely,
TCMA Nominations Committee

___
www.tcmacaves.org

To subscribe to this list, send an e-mail to tcma-list-subscr...@tcmacaves.org

To Unsubscribe, send an e-mail to tcma-list-unsubscr...@tcmacaves.org.

[TCMA-List] TCMA Special Election

[Saj Zappitello]

Dear Members,

The Texas Cave Management Association is calling a special election to
fill a Board of Directors position. At this time, we are requesting
nominations for director candidates because with the new ByLaws, we
are one Director short and need to rectify the situation. The director
will serve the remainder of the three year term: from March of this
year until December 31, 2014.

The election will take place by electronic ballot, much like the
general election last fall. The election will open on February 27 and
will run through March 12 close of business. Members must be in good
standing and up to date on payment of dues in order to participate in
the election. Members in good standing will be contacted via email by
the online ballot system. Paper ballots will also be available by
contacting the database committee. To vote in this eballot election,
be sure we have your current email address and that you are current in
your dues.

Coming soon, you can go to http://www.tcmacaves.org/whatsnew/ for
additional information on duties and responsibilities. If you know of
someone who might be a good candidate but might be reluctant to step
forward, contact the committee chair at saj.zappite...@tcmacaves.org,
and we will contact the proposed candidate on behalf of TCMA.

Sincerely,
TCMA Nominations Committee

___
www.tcmacaves.org

To subscribe to this list, send an e-mail to tcma-list-subscr...@tcmacaves.org

To Unsubscribe, send an e-mail to tcma-list-unsubscr...@tcmacaves.org.

[SWR] Fw: NSS Questions USFWS on Bat Death Estimate

[Jen.]

The NSS sent a six-page letter to U.S. Fish and Wildlife Director Daniel Ashe 
requesting that USFWS publicly release its data and methodology for arriving at 
it's recent estimate of "at least 5.7 - 6.7 million" bat deaths from WNS. The 
NSS also provided detailed scientific data indicating why it feels the USFWS 
estimate is significantly higher than available research would support.

The letter is posted on the NSS' WNS website, and linked here: 
http://www.caves.org/WNS/Ashe_Bat_Estimate_Letter_1-24-12.pdf

A press release has been sent to various media outlets, is also posted on the 
website, and linked here: 

http://www.caves.org/WNS/Press_Release_on_Bat_Death_Estimate.pdf___
SWR mailing list
s...@caver.net
http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net

[SWR] Fw: NSS Questions USFWS on Bat Death Estimate

[Jen.]

The NSS sent a six-page letter to U.S. Fish and Wildlife Director Daniel Ashe 
requesting that USFWS publicly release its data and methodology for arriving at 
it's recent estimate of "at least 5.7 - 6.7 million" bat deaths from WNS. The 
NSS also provided detailed scientific data indicating why it feels the USFWS 
estimate is significantly higher than available research would support.

The letter is posted on the NSS' WNS website, and linked here: 
http://www.caves.org/WNS/Ashe_Bat_Estimate_Letter_1-24-12.pdf

A press release has been sent to various media outlets, is also posted on the 
website, and linked here: 

http://www.caves.org/WNS/Press_Release_on_Bat_Death_Estimate.pdf___
SWR mailing list
s...@caver.net
http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net

[SWR] Fw: NSS Questions USFWS on Bat Death Estimate

[Jen.]

The NSS sent a six-page letter to U.S. Fish and Wildlife Director Daniel Ashe 
requesting that USFWS publicly release its data and methodology for arriving at 
it's recent estimate of "at least 5.7 - 6.7 million" bat deaths from WNS. The 
NSS also provided detailed scientific data indicating why it feels the USFWS 
estimate is significantly higher than available research would support.

The letter is posted on the NSS' WNS website, and linked here: 
http://www.caves.org/WNS/Ashe_Bat_Estimate_Letter_1-24-12.pdf

A press release has been sent to various media outlets, is also posted on the 
website, and linked here: 

http://www.caves.org/WNS/Press_Release_on_Bat_Death_Estimate.pdf___
SWR mailing list
s...@caver.net
http://caver.net/mailman/listinfo/swr_caver.net