RE: [Texascavers] Thank you.
Good luck, Monica! We're pulling for you! Mark Alman From: Espeleo Coahuila [mailto:espeleocoahu...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:34 PM To: TSA Cavers; texasca...@texascaver.com; Mark Alman Subject: [Texascavers] Thank you. Hi friends.. I want to dedicate this month by all of you! You are my family and I'm a very lucky to have a wonderful texas caver family! I don't want to forget, that you are very important in my life. Thanks for help me and support me in all my Cancer treatments I had 3 years with out cancer, the next week I have the next appointment with the doctor and the next year possible finish the treatment. wiht your love I can do it!!! Thank you! Love you. Moni. -- LCC. Monica Grissel Ponce Gonzalez Asociacion Coahuilense de Espeleologia, A.C. (fundadora) Associazione Geografica La Venta- Italia (socia) Centro de Estudios Karsticos La Venta (socia) Grupo Espeleologico Vaxakmen, A.C. (socia) Association for Mexican Cave Studies (colaboradora) Texas Speleological Association (Socia) Union Mexicana de Agrupaciones Espeleologicas (Socia) 045-844-1478311 cel. monicaponce1 by skype.
[Texascavers] NSS membership
From Bill Stringfellow-- The good thing about becoming a Life Member at any time is that it helps the NSS now and later. Most people don't know this but Life Member dues are not spent as soon as they come in. The money gets put into the Life Membership Fund managed by the National Speleological Foundation. Each year the Life Membership Fund returns to the NSS the full cost of Regular Member dues for each Life Member. Any income earned in excess of what is needed for Regular Dues for all Life Members is available for the NSS to use for other purposes. So paying your Life Dues at any time helps the NSS now in two ways now and then on an ongoing basis after you have gone off to Valhalla. I encourage everyone to become a life member as soon as they can. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
Gawd, let's hope not, Stefan! The move to a two way membership (cheaper for online TEXAS CAVER. Higher for mailed version), IMHO, probably saved the TSA and kept it solvent. The NSS needs to do this. I would have no problem with an online (cheaper) option. I read 'em once and then they go on the shelf. I'm not that attached to printed material. Mark (TSA Chairman at the time) From: Stefan Creaser [mailto:stefan.crea...@arm.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:31 PM To: Frank Binney Cc: Texas Cavers Subject: RE: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News Wonder if this one'll drag on as long as the TSA newsletter discussion of the same? ;-) Cheers, Stefan From: Phil Winkler [mailto:pw...@dca.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:16 PM To: Frank Binney Cc: Texas Cavers Subject: Re: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News Read all about it in the March 23 BOG Meeting topic: http://cavechat.org/ Phil On Mar 19, 2013, at 7:10 PM, Frank Binney wrote: FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday's NSS Board of Governor's meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn't be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.
RE: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
Butch, You can download digital copies of your lost Texas Caver and NSS News, and a great many other newsletters and publications, free from the Karst Information Portal http://www.karstportal.org/browse?taxonomy=classification. Texas Caver: http://www.karstportal.org/taxonomy/term/1025 NSS News: http://www.karstportal.org/taxonomy/term/948 Mark At 12:25 AM 3/20/2013, Butch Fralia wrote: I think the NSS should pursue the concept that the TSA and other organizations have. Give people an option for an online version or mailed version (or both). With TSA and some grottos that have tried that approach, the number of people who've preferred the online version vs printed version and dropped the cost of printing significantly. Some time ago, I had a water leak that soaked a box of NSS News and TSA Texas Cavers. They sort of melted by the time I discovered they were water soaked. I can't recover those copies but could if they were all digitized. Stuff happens, even if you have a printed copy, having a digital copy available isnt' a bad thing. Butch Fralia From: Frank Binney [mailto:fr...@frankbinney.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:11 PM To: Texas Cavers Subject: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday's NSS Board of Governor's meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn't be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the President and every other BOG member on this issue and voice my opinion. Blake N. Jordan Sandia Grotto Chairman Sent from my iPad On Mar 19, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Ray Keeler rckee...@cox.net wrote: hmmm. The BOG meeting is this weekend. It might be a good time to contact your Director. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Hewitt To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News If the NSS news is stopped than I won't pay my dues anymore. Simple as that! From: Dave Bunnell davebunn...@comcast.net To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Hey folks,Would you believe no one in the NSS even consulted me before coming up with this proposal to stop the print versions of the News? I just found out about it recently, I'll be attending the meeting to present the case that most members like their printed News. I do think we should offer an electronic version but it should be an option, and if enough people go for that we will save some money there, but shouldn't force it on people.DaveOn 3/13/2013 10:07 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: This meeting should be a particularly interesting one. The NSS is facing a serious budget tightening and this is the meeting when the board must approve a new budget. The budget proposed by the executive committee[1] includes only three printed issues of the NSS news with the rest being electronic[2], and a reduction of staff at the office. There is a board election coming up, so come see how the board members address the budget issues. A number of board members will be represented by proxies, so come see if you would like to have any of the people acting as proxies run for a full board seat sometime in the future. Cheers - Bill [1] The NSS budget process has the five officers (the executive committee) propose a budget which must be approved by the board -- the officers plus the 12 elected directors. [2] Life members and NSS News subscribers will continue to get printed copies of all issues. On 3/6/13 at 7:16 PM, mailto:peri%40frantzfamily.us (Peri Frantz) wrote: The NSS BOG (Board of Governors) will hold it's spring meeting Saturday, March 23. This will be the first time the BOG has met in California since the 2003 Convention in Porterville. All Western Cavers are encouraged to participate. Even if you can't attend the meeting, try to make the Friday Night Gathering, the Saturday Party, or the Sunday San Andreas Fault Field Trip. See http://www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html for details and registration. Why attend? This is your best chance to meet and talk to the Directors you get to vote for every Spring. They run the Society, and want to hear your ideas and opinions. That's why they move the meeting around the country. Why register? The meeting is free. There will be a small charge for the Gathering and Party to cover costs, which you can pay when you get here. SFBC is providing housing and transportation for BOG Members, and will cover their costs for the Gathering and Party, however, in order to assure we have enough food we need to know who else intends to show up. Registering will give us a headcount. Hope we see lot of you here, Peri Frantz NSS Director Meeting Organizer -- Bill Frantz | I don't have high-speed | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | internet. I have DSL. | 16345 Englewood Ave http://www.pwpconsult.com/ | | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __._,_.___ Reply via web postReply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (13) RECENT ACTIVITY: New Members 1 Visit Your Group -- Coming Events: March 22-23-24, 2013 NSS Board of Governors Meeting Hosted by San Francisco Bay Chapter Menlo Park - All cavers welcome! Info: www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html April 27-28, 2013 Orientation to Cave Rescue Sequoia-Kings Canyon Natl. Parks Contact Roger Mortimer for details May 17-18-19, 2013 Speleo-Ed Seminar - Millerton Lakes, Prather, CA Hosted by Stanislaus Grotto June 1-8, 2013 National Cave Rescue Commission, Western Region Week-long Training, Level 1 only Lava Beds National Monument July 21-28, 2013 16th International Congress of Speleology
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
So noted and will be passed along Blake. I was in the process of posting my NSSWest and CaveChat replies to this forum and then noticed that it had already been forwarded. The speed of the Internet exceeds even the fastest typists. Wm Shrewsbury President, National Speleological Society From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Artisan Caver Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 8:54 AM To: Ray Keeler Cc: Mailing List for SWR Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the President and every other BOG member on this issue and voice my opinion. Blake N. Jordan Sandia Grotto Chairman Sent from my iPad On Mar 19, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Ray Keeler rckee...@cox.net wrote: hmmm. The BOG meeting is this weekend. It might be a good time to contact your Director. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Hewitt mailto:faceof...@yahoo.com To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News If the NSS news is stopped than I won't pay my dues anymore. Simple as that! From: Dave Bunnell davebunn...@comcast.net To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Hey folks,Would you believe no one in the NSS even consulted me before coming up with this proposal to stop the print versions of the News? I just found out about it recently, I'll be attending the meeting to present the case that most members like their printed News. I do think we should offer an electronic version but it should be an option, and if enough people go for that we will save some money there, but shouldn't force it on people.DaveOn 3/13/2013 10:07 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: This meeting should be a particularly interesting one. The NSS is facing a serious budget tightening and this is the meeting when the board must approve a new budget. The budget proposed by the executive committee[1] includes only three printed issues of the NSS news with the rest being electronic[2], and a reduction of staff at the office. There is a board election coming up, so come see how the board members address the budget issues. A number of board members will be represented by proxies, so come see if you would like to have any of the people acting as proxies run for a full board seat sometime in the future. Cheers - Bill [1] The NSS budget process has the five officers (the executive committee) propose a budget which must be approved by the board -- the officers plus the 12 elected directors. [2] Life members and NSS News subscribers will continue to get printed copies of all issues. On 3/6/13 at 7:16 PM, mailto:peri%40frantzfamily.us (Peri Frantz) wrote: The NSS BOG (Board of Governors) will hold it's spring meeting Saturday, March 23. This will be the first time the BOG has met in California since the 2003 Convention in Porterville. All Western Cavers are encouraged to participate. Even if you can't attend the meeting, try to make the Friday Night Gathering, the Saturday Party, or the Sunday San Andreas Fault Field Trip. See http://www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html for details and registration. Why attend? This is your best chance to meet and talk to the Directors you get to vote for every Spring. They run the Society, and want to hear your ideas and opinions. That's why they move the meeting around the country. Why register? The meeting is free. There will be a small charge for the Gathering and Party to cover costs, which you can pay when you get here. SFBC is providing housing and transportation for BOG Members, and will cover their costs for the Gathering and Party, however, in order to assure we have enough food we need to know who else intends to show up. Registering will give us a headcount. Hope we see lot of you here, Peri Frantz NSS Director Meeting Organizer -- Bill Frantz | I don't have high-speed | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | internet. I have DSL. | 16345 Englewood Ave http://www.pwpconsult.com/ | | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __._,_.___ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NSSwest/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZm1ob2FtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzNjM2MjM2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTEyNTQwNQRtc2dJZAMzOTk2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTM2MzcxNTU4OQ--?act=replymessageNum=3996 Reply via web post
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
I have hard copies of the NSS News since 1958. These are “keepers” . I intend to continue adding upcoming issues to my caving library. Bob Stucklen, NSS 4752 From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Wm Shrewsbury Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 7:13 AM To: 'Mailing List for SWR' Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News So noted and will be passed along Blake. I was in the process of posting my NSSWest and CaveChat replies to this forum and then noticed that it had already been forwarded. The speed of the Internet exceeds even the fastest typists. Wm Shrewsbury President, National Speleological Society From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Artisan Caver Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 8:54 AM To: Ray Keeler Cc: Mailing List for SWR Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the President and every other BOG member on this issue and voice my opinion. Blake N. Jordan Sandia Grotto Chairman Sent from my iPad On Mar 19, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Ray Keeler rckee...@cox.net wrote: hmmm. The BOG meeting is this weekend. It might be a good time to contact your Director. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Hewitt mailto:faceof...@yahoo.com To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News If the NSS news is stopped than I won't pay my dues anymore. Simple as that! From: Dave Bunnell davebunn...@comcast.net To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Hey folks,Would you believe no one in the NSS even consulted me before coming up with this proposal to stop the print versions of the News? I just found out about it recently, I'll be attending the meeting to present the case that most members like their printed News. I do think we should offer an electronic version but it should be an option, and if enough people go for that we will save some money there, but shouldn't force it on people.DaveOn 3/13/2013 10:07 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: This meeting should be a particularly interesting one. The NSS is facing a serious budget tightening and this is the meeting when the board must approve a new budget. The budget proposed by the executive committee[1] includes only three printed issues of the NSS news with the rest being electronic[2], and a reduction of staff at the office. There is a board election coming up, so come see how the board members address the budget issues. A number of board members will be represented by proxies, so come see if you would like to have any of the people acting as proxies run for a full board seat sometime in the future. Cheers - Bill [1] The NSS budget process has the five officers (the executive committee) propose a budget which must be approved by the board -- the officers plus the 12 elected directors. [2] Life members and NSS News subscribers will continue to get printed copies of all issues. On 3/6/13 at 7:16 PM, mailto:peri%40frantzfamily.us (Peri Frantz) wrote: The NSS BOG (Board of Governors) will hold it's spring meeting Saturday, March 23. This will be the first time the BOG has met in California since the 2003 Convention in Porterville. All Western Cavers are encouraged to participate. Even if you can't attend the meeting, try to make the Friday Night Gathering, the Saturday Party, or the Sunday San Andreas Fault Field Trip. See http://www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html for details and registration. Why attend? This is your best chance to meet and talk to the Directors you get to vote for every Spring. They run the Society, and want to hear your ideas and opinions. That's why they move the meeting around the country. Why register? The meeting is free. There will be a small charge for the Gathering and Party to cover costs, which you can pay when you get here. SFBC is providing housing and transportation for BOG Members, and will cover their costs for the Gathering and Party, however, in order to assure we have enough food we need to know who else intends to show up. Registering will give us a headcount. Hope we see lot of you here, Peri Frantz NSS Director Meeting Organizer -- Bill Frantz | I don't have high-speed | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | internet. I have DSL. | 16345
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
It would seem that this is part of the trade-offs of putting more money into a new headquarters. It is ironic that one of the arguments used in favor of a new Huntsville headquarters was that we might loose staff if it were moved, and now we are talking about reducing office staff However, I strongly believe, for various reasons outlined below, it is critical that we retain a printed News at least as an option for members and institutional supporters. ** The interest of many people is first attracted by seeing a magazine or journal on a rack, picking it up and perusing it. Few people would do this (without prior involvement) just scrolling through a list of online subscriptions at a library, nor will friends of members ask OH, can I see what online journals you have? No. But they commonly pick up my News, their attention arrested by the attractive picture on the cover. ** At least with older members, I believe at least some of us LIKE sitting down with a hard-copy journal or News and not in front of a screen. ** Reducing the visability of the society now by eliminating hard-copy News would be like a failing restaurant cutting quality of food to stay afloat. We all know what happens then - progressive cuts in staff and quality lead to an irreversible downwards spiral, to which there is only one end. There is only one long-term solution to this and that is a concerted membership drive. This is especially clear when one examines the demographics of our membership, which year by year is greyer and slower. Attracting people to a failing society will be harder and harder if we choose to continue to restrict what we offer. Might I suggest: ** Every grotto set a goal of concertedly attracting 10% new members in the next year and 20% over the next five years. This could be promoted by having more of a concerted public outreach program where members with good stories and slide shows give more frequent talks to local non-cave groups (outing clubs, scouting groups, schools, Audubon Societies, junior chambers of commerce, etc) ** Have grotto members (especially Fellows and Life Members) donate a few dollars each year so that every grotto might award one or more first-years NSS memberships to a new, promising attendee (unrelated to grotto members). After being a member for a year it might be easier to convince new people to maintain membership on their own. ** Offer a trial membership (student membership?) with reduced dues with the first several months of hardcopy News and subsequent online subscription. I strongly believe it is easier to maintain members than to attract them initially. ** Allow new members to designate one person who was especially instrumental in bringing them in, and give a one year membership discount to that person. Multiple new members could result in an especially good recruiter getting their own fees waived entirely. ** Encourage more donations (of* goods or services*), more attendance and more vigorous bidding at the auctions, with some percent of the money raised pledged to the publication efforts of the society. One way to do that might be to give donors of items for the auction X percent of the hammer price, or a gift card for Y % good for gift memberships or goods at the NSS store (with X Y: for example X = 25%, Y = 50%). The success of auctions depends on getting better things, more competitive bidders and more bidders. A more successful auction might also benefit from a page in the News before the convention describing some of the premier items and donors, and a page afterward covering some of the highlights, and successful bidders. We are at a critical juncture for the Society: we are poorer because of recent committments at a time when membership growth has been stagnant and the society is greying. However, if we offer less to members, we will find it harder and harder to keep up, and will be forced into more cuts making it ever harder to attrct new members. This MUST BE ADDRESSED NOW! If we wait ten years with continued failing recruitment, there will be fewer, older members and it will be increasingly difficult to meet commitments and recruitment goals. There's a line from Danny Devito in Other People's Money, where he says something to the effect that there is one sure way of going down the tubes- to get a bigger and bigger share of a shrinking market. I hope the Society doesn't follow this course. Michael Queen 13805 On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 6:53 AM, Artisan Caver blandev...@comcast.netwrote: I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
Michael, Points noted and will be passed along. I'd like to take a quick moment to comment on a few items. ** Reducing the visability of the society now by eliminating hard-copy News would be like a failing restaurant cutting quality of food to stay afloat. We all know what happens then - progressive cuts in staff and quality lead to an irreversible downwards spiral, to which there is only one end. Perhaps the analogy is better made that we would be cutting menu items (not quality), but it trends toward the same end. There is only one long-term solution to this and that is a concerted membership drive. This is especially clear when one examines the demographics of our membership, which year by year is greyer and slower. Attracting people to a failing society will be harder and harder if we choose to continue to restrict what we offer. In my report (https://secure.caves.org/nss-business/reports/1303/PRES-1303.pdf, page 43) you will find a membership analysis by Director Dick Mitchell. A report from several years ago indicates that our membership age-span is still very similar. Our retention of new members in the 1-3 year range is where we appear to be hurting the most. I and others agree that we need to retain membership benefits, and that the best solution is a membership drive. We currently attract ~10% of our size in new members each year. Retention is one of our main problems. ** Every grotto set a goal of concertedly attracting 10% new members in the next year and 20% over the next five years. This would solve our current shortfall, and 20% would put us back to the level we enjoyed for several years. ** Allow new members to designate one person who was especially instrumental in bringing them in, and give a one year membership discount to that person. Multiple new members could result in an especially good recruiter getting their own fees waived entirely. The Marketing Advertising Committee, with assistance from our Membership Committee, did a reverse of the above - they had Grottos nominate someone who might be an up-and-coming caver that would probably benefit the Society. The above might better option. All of your suggestions are being passed along to the Board. Thank you, Wm Shrewsbury President, National Speleological Society ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
I recently purchased a life membership. I feel cheated now... Bill - Original Message - From: Artisan Caver To: Ray Keeler Cc: Mailing List for SWR Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 6:53 AM Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the President and every other BOG member on this issue and voice my opinion. Blake N. Jordan Sandia Grotto Chairman Sent from my iPad On Mar 19, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Ray Keeler rckee...@cox.net wrote: hmmm. The BOG meeting is this weekend. It might be a good time to contact your Director. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Hewitt To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News If the NSS news is stopped than I won't pay my dues anymore. Simple as that! From: Dave Bunnell davebunn...@comcast.net To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Hey folks,Would you believe no one in the NSS even consulted me before coming up with this proposal to stop the print versions of the News? I just found out about it recently, I'll be attending the meeting to present the case that most members like their printed News. I do think we should offer an electronic version but it should be an option, and if enough people go for that we will save some money there, but shouldn't force it on people.DaveOn 3/13/2013 10:07 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: This meeting should be a particularly interesting one. The NSS is facing a serious budget tightening and this is the meeting when the board must approve a new budget. The budget proposed by the executive committee[1] includes only three printed issues of the NSS news with the rest being electronic[2], and a reduction of staff at the office. There is a board election coming up, so come see how the board members address the budget issues. A number of board members will be represented by proxies, so come see if you would like to have any of the people acting as proxies run for a full board seat sometime in the future. Cheers - Bill [1] The NSS budget process has the five officers (the executive committee) propose a budget which must be approved by the board -- the officers plus the 12 elected directors. [2] Life members and NSS News subscribers will continue to get printed copies of all issues. On 3/6/13 at 7:16 PM, mailto:peri%40frantzfamily.us (Peri Frantz) wrote: The NSS BOG (Board of Governors) will hold it's spring meeting Saturday, March 23. This will be the first time the BOG has met in California since the 2003 Convention in Porterville. All Western Cavers are encouraged to participate. Even if you can't attend the meeting, try to make the Friday Night Gathering, the Saturday Party, or the Sunday San Andreas Fault Field Trip. See http://www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html for details and registration. Why attend? This is your best chance to meet and talk to the Directors you get to vote for every Spring. They run the Society, and want to hear your ideas and opinions. That's why they move the meeting around the country. Why register? The meeting is free. There will be a small charge for the Gathering and Party to cover costs, which you can pay when you get here. SFBC is providing housing and transportation for BOG Members, and will cover their costs for the Gathering and Party, however, in order to assure we have enough food we need to know who else intends to show up. Registering will give us a headcount. Hope we see lot of you here, Peri Frantz NSS Director Meeting Organizer -- Bill Frantz | I don't have high-speed | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | internet. I have DSL. | 16345 Englewood Ave http://www.pwpconsult.com/ | | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __._,_.___Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (13) Recent Activity: a.. New Members 1 Visit Your Group -- Coming Events: March 22-23-24, 2013
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
Bill, Regardless of how the budget process turns out all Life Members, Sustaining, Conservation, and Institutional members would still get a hard copy – that is not on the table at all. It is our hope that by a combination of cuts in some places, an increase in membership, and perhaps an option to obtain their News digitally for some we will be able to balance our budget. Wm Shrewsbury President, National Speleological Society From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bentley Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 2:13 PM To: s...@caver.net Cc: Mailing List for SWR Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News I recently purchased a life membership. I feel cheated now... Bill - Original Message - From: Artisan Caver mailto:blandev...@comcast.net To: Ray Keeler mailto:rckee...@cox.net Cc: Mailing List for SWR mailto:s...@caver.net Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 6:53 AM Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the President and every other BOG member on this issue and voice my opinion. Blake N. Jordan Sandia Grotto Chairman Sent from my iPad On Mar 19, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Ray Keeler rckee...@cox.net wrote: hmmm. The BOG meeting is this weekend. It might be a good time to contact your Director. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Hewitt mailto:faceof...@yahoo.com To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News If the NSS news is stopped than I won't pay my dues anymore. Simple as that! From: Dave Bunnell davebunn...@comcast.net To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Hey folks,Would you believe no one in the NSS even consulted me before coming up with this proposal to stop the print versions of the News? I just found out about it recently, I'll be attending the meeting to present the case that most members like their printed News. I do think we should offer an electronic version but it should be an option, and if enough people go for that we will save some money there, but shouldn't force it on people.DaveOn 3/13/2013 10:07 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: This meeting should be a particularly interesting one. The NSS is facing a serious budget tightening and this is the meeting when the board must approve a new budget. The budget proposed by the executive committee[1] includes only three printed issues of the NSS news with the rest being electronic[2], and a reduction of staff at the office. There is a board election coming up, so come see how the board members address the budget issues. A number of board members will be represented by proxies, so come see if you would like to have any of the people acting as proxies run for a full board seat sometime in the future. Cheers - Bill [1] The NSS budget process has the five officers (the executive committee) propose a budget which must be approved by the board -- the officers plus the 12 elected directors. [2] Life members and NSS News subscribers will continue to get printed copies of all issues. On 3/6/13 at 7:16 PM, mailto:peri%40frantzfamily.us (Peri Frantz) wrote: The NSS BOG (Board of Governors) will hold it's spring meeting Saturday, March 23. This will be the first time the BOG has met in California since the 2003 Convention in Porterville. All Western Cavers are encouraged to participate. Even if you can't attend the meeting, try to make the Friday Night Gathering, the Saturday Party, or the Sunday San Andreas Fault Field Trip. See http://www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html for details and registration. Why attend? This is your best chance to meet and talk to the Directors you get to vote for every Spring. They run the Society, and want to hear your ideas and opinions. That's why they move the meeting around the country. Why register? The meeting is free. There will be a small charge for the Gathering and Party to cover costs, which you can pay when you get here. SFBC is providing housing and transportation for BOG Members, and will cover their costs for the Gathering and Party, however, in order to assure we have enough food we need to know who else intends to show up. Registering will give us a headcount. Hope we see lot of you here, Peri Frantz NSS Director Meeting Organizer
[Texascavers] Archived NSS News in PDF
Here are all the back issues. https://secure.caves.org/nss-business/publications/NSS_News/index.shtml Just log in with your NSS# and zip code. Phil - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] water-damaged TCs and NSS News
Butch, Send me a list of the TCs you lost and I can replace those that are still in print. There are many extra copies of the NSS News in the TSS office, so send me a list of those issues you lost, too. This is contingent on your confirmation that you have fixed the water leak! ;-) Logan On 3/19/2013 11:25 PM, Butch Fralia wrote: BOG proposal to end printed NSS News I think the NSS should pursue the concept that the TSA and other organizations have. Give people an option for an online version or mailed version (or both). With TSA and some grottos that have tried that approach, the number of people who've preferred the online version vs printed version and dropped the cost of printing significantly. Some time ago, I had a water leak that soaked a box of NSS News and TSA Texas Cavers. They sort of melted by the time I discovered they were water soaked. I can't recover those copies but could if they were all digitized. Stuff happens, even if you have a printed copy, having a digital copy available isnt' a bad thing. Butch Fralia *From:*Frank Binney [mailto:fr...@frankbinney.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:11 PM *To:* Texas Cavers *Subject:* [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday's NSS Board of Governor's meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn't be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F
RE: [Texascavers] Thank you.
Good luck, Monica! We're pulling for you! Mark Alman From: Espeleo Coahuila [mailto:espeleocoahu...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:34 PM To: TSA Cavers; texasca...@texascaver.com; Mark Alman Subject: [Texascavers] Thank you. Hi friends.. I want to dedicate this month by all of you! You are my family and I'm a very lucky to have a wonderful texas caver family! I don't want to forget, that you are very important in my life. Thanks for help me and support me in all my Cancer treatments I had 3 years with out cancer, the next week I have the next appointment with the doctor and the next year possible finish the treatment. wiht your love I can do it!!! Thank you! Love you. Moni. -- LCC. Monica Grissel Ponce Gonzalez Asociacion Coahuilense de Espeleologia, A.C. (fundadora) Associazione Geografica La Venta- Italia (socia) Centro de Estudios Karsticos La Venta (socia) Grupo Espeleologico Vaxakmen, A.C. (socia) Association for Mexican Cave Studies (colaboradora) Texas Speleological Association (Socia) Union Mexicana de Agrupaciones Espeleologicas (Socia) 045-844-1478311 cel. monicaponce1 by skype.
[Texascavers] NSS membership
From Bill Stringfellow-- The good thing about becoming a Life Member at any time is that it helps the NSS now and later. Most people don't know this but Life Member dues are not spent as soon as they come in. The money gets put into the Life Membership Fund managed by the National Speleological Foundation. Each year the Life Membership Fund returns to the NSS the full cost of Regular Member dues for each Life Member. Any income earned in excess of what is needed for Regular Dues for all Life Members is available for the NSS to use for other purposes. So paying your Life Dues at any time helps the NSS now in two ways now and then on an ongoing basis after you have gone off to Valhalla. I encourage everyone to become a life member as soon as they can. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
Gawd, let's hope not, Stefan! The move to a two way membership (cheaper for online TEXAS CAVER. Higher for mailed version), IMHO, probably saved the TSA and kept it solvent. The NSS needs to do this. I would have no problem with an online (cheaper) option. I read 'em once and then they go on the shelf. I'm not that attached to printed material. Mark (TSA Chairman at the time) From: Stefan Creaser [mailto:stefan.crea...@arm.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:31 PM To: Frank Binney Cc: Texas Cavers Subject: RE: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News Wonder if this one'll drag on as long as the TSA newsletter discussion of the same? ;-) Cheers, Stefan From: Phil Winkler [mailto:pw...@dca.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:16 PM To: Frank Binney Cc: Texas Cavers Subject: Re: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News Read all about it in the March 23 BOG Meeting topic: http://cavechat.org/ Phil On Mar 19, 2013, at 7:10 PM, Frank Binney wrote: FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday's NSS Board of Governor's meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn't be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.
RE: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
Butch, You can download digital copies of your lost Texas Caver and NSS News, and a great many other newsletters and publications, free from the Karst Information Portal http://www.karstportal.org/browse?taxonomy=classification. Texas Caver: http://www.karstportal.org/taxonomy/term/1025 NSS News: http://www.karstportal.org/taxonomy/term/948 Mark At 12:25 AM 3/20/2013, Butch Fralia wrote: I think the NSS should pursue the concept that the TSA and other organizations have. Give people an option for an online version or mailed version (or both). With TSA and some grottos that have tried that approach, the number of people who've preferred the online version vs printed version and dropped the cost of printing significantly. Some time ago, I had a water leak that soaked a box of NSS News and TSA Texas Cavers. They sort of melted by the time I discovered they were water soaked. I can't recover those copies but could if they were all digitized. Stuff happens, even if you have a printed copy, having a digital copy available isnt' a bad thing. Butch Fralia From: Frank Binney [mailto:fr...@frankbinney.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:11 PM To: Texas Cavers Subject: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday's NSS Board of Governor's meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn't be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] NSS News
Folks, I'm sure that most of you have read the posts on the various caver forums by now and I appreciate seeing everyone's comments. The NSS has a significant budget short fall, as Wm said, and we've been cutting costs in all places. The shortfall is related to a decrease in membership over the last 5 years. I believe this is a result of a number of factors - long term member deaths, changing interests, a down turn in the economy, lack of access to caves because of White Nose which decreases recruitment, cost of membership, competing interests among potential new members, etc. In addition, we've also been getting questions about providing the NSS News in electronic format as some folks prefer to receive their material over the internet. You can see this trend in a decline in home delivery of newspapers and magazines and an increase in on line subscriptions. I think what we're talking about here is offering a choice among members, you can get the NSS NEWS electronically for a reduced price which may help attract members or if you're a luddite like me, you can pay a different rate and receive a hard copy by mail. Either way, the electronic version will be available to all members. I think choice is good and helps keep everyone happy. In addition, the electronic issues allow some benefits that you can't put into print such as interactive maps, more color photos, etc. How do we improve our bottom line. Membership recruitment and retention is incredibly important. I noted that most of the Bexar Grotto are NSS members when I asked for a show of hands the other day. The grotto also has a program to award a membership to a new caver every year. The Bexar Grotto has also purchased relevant books from the NSS and donated them to the local library system. This provides an educational resource for the public and provides some free information on the local grotto (and some cash flow to the NSS). In addition, the Bexar Grotto is also a member of the 404 club by donating $300 per year to the NSS for the new building. If 404 members donated $25 per month or $300 per year, we would cover the mortgage on the new building and additional funds could be used for improvements or member benefits (and you get a cool shirt which the grotto raffled off and we used that money to buy a brick at the new facility with our grotto name engraved). These are just a few of the ideas used to help support the society. Some facts on the new building The new building is only a few miles from the current office building and is a great facility for an organization such as the NSS. It will be able to house our full library collection in a professional manner, have plenty of room for office staff, book stock, storage of NSS related materials, museum, meeting and classrooms, etc. We also got an incredible deal on the property getting it at rock bottom prices when the real estate market collapsed and at very low interest rates. It is approximately 80 acres of land and actually contains some caves. The front half of the property is also a campground. There are meeting rooms in the building as well as a large auditorium. The 2014 convention will be held there saving us a lot of money and is a good time for folks to visit. The campground is also open to members for free camping. The office is being renovated and after the move, we'll be able to rent out the old office. Note also that the new building overhead will be paid though rental fees of the property for various activities such as wedding receptions, various community events, family reunions, and is expected to be a revenue generator for the society in the near future as the facility is updated and better advertised. For those of you that have been to the old office, it is what I call a blivit, that is 10 lbs of stuff (insert explicit descriptor here) in a 5lb bag. It is bulging at the seams, is not housing our collection very well, and makes it difficult for the staff to work because of space. If folks would like to hear more about the new office or other issues related to the NSS, I would offer to try and visit a grotto meeting and present a program - you'll also get an arm twisting about membership, the 404 club, donations, etc. Be aware that Texas is a big place and I don't have the time or money to visit every grotto in the state, but do try and arrange my travel schedule around grotto meetings. The NSS is a great organization. I've always been amazed at how much the NSS gets done, all because of an incredibly committed group of volunteers. Thanks and please be active in the NSS and call your directorate and let them know what you think. Geary Schindel NSS Administrative Vice Chair (The AVP responsibilities include Education, Conservation, Conventions, and Preserves) - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail:
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the President and every other BOG member on this issue and voice my opinion. Blake N. Jordan Sandia Grotto Chairman Sent from my iPad On Mar 19, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Ray Keeler rckee...@cox.net wrote: hmmm. The BOG meeting is this weekend. It might be a good time to contact your Director. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Hewitt To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News If the NSS news is stopped than I won't pay my dues anymore. Simple as that! From: Dave Bunnell davebunn...@comcast.net To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Hey folks,Would you believe no one in the NSS even consulted me before coming up with this proposal to stop the print versions of the News? I just found out about it recently, I'll be attending the meeting to present the case that most members like their printed News. I do think we should offer an electronic version but it should be an option, and if enough people go for that we will save some money there, but shouldn't force it on people.DaveOn 3/13/2013 10:07 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: This meeting should be a particularly interesting one. The NSS is facing a serious budget tightening and this is the meeting when the board must approve a new budget. The budget proposed by the executive committee[1] includes only three printed issues of the NSS news with the rest being electronic[2], and a reduction of staff at the office. There is a board election coming up, so come see how the board members address the budget issues. A number of board members will be represented by proxies, so come see if you would like to have any of the people acting as proxies run for a full board seat sometime in the future. Cheers - Bill [1] The NSS budget process has the five officers (the executive committee) propose a budget which must be approved by the board -- the officers plus the 12 elected directors. [2] Life members and NSS News subscribers will continue to get printed copies of all issues. On 3/6/13 at 7:16 PM, mailto:peri%40frantzfamily.us (Peri Frantz) wrote: The NSS BOG (Board of Governors) will hold it's spring meeting Saturday, March 23. This will be the first time the BOG has met in California since the 2003 Convention in Porterville. All Western Cavers are encouraged to participate. Even if you can't attend the meeting, try to make the Friday Night Gathering, the Saturday Party, or the Sunday San Andreas Fault Field Trip. See http://www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html for details and registration. Why attend? This is your best chance to meet and talk to the Directors you get to vote for every Spring. They run the Society, and want to hear your ideas and opinions. That's why they move the meeting around the country. Why register? The meeting is free. There will be a small charge for the Gathering and Party to cover costs, which you can pay when you get here. SFBC is providing housing and transportation for BOG Members, and will cover their costs for the Gathering and Party, however, in order to assure we have enough food we need to know who else intends to show up. Registering will give us a headcount. Hope we see lot of you here, Peri Frantz NSS Director Meeting Organizer -- Bill Frantz | I don't have high-speed | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | internet. I have DSL. | 16345 Englewood Ave http://www.pwpconsult.com/ | | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __._,_.___ Reply via web postReply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (13) RECENT ACTIVITY: New Members 1 Visit Your Group -- Coming Events: March 22-23-24, 2013 NSS Board of Governors Meeting Hosted by San Francisco Bay Chapter Menlo Park - All cavers welcome! Info: www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html April 27-28, 2013 Orientation to Cave Rescue Sequoia-Kings Canyon Natl. Parks Contact Roger Mortimer for details May 17-18-19, 2013 Speleo-Ed Seminar - Millerton Lakes, Prather, CA Hosted by Stanislaus Grotto June 1-8, 2013 National Cave Rescue Commission, Western Region Week-long Training, Level 1 only Lava Beds National Monument July 21-28, 2013 16th International Congress of Speleology
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
So noted and will be passed along Blake. I was in the process of posting my NSSWest and CaveChat replies to this forum and then noticed that it had already been forwarded. The speed of the Internet exceeds even the fastest typists. Wm Shrewsbury President, National Speleological Society From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Artisan Caver Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 8:54 AM To: Ray Keeler Cc: Mailing List for SWR Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the President and every other BOG member on this issue and voice my opinion. Blake N. Jordan Sandia Grotto Chairman Sent from my iPad On Mar 19, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Ray Keeler rckee...@cox.net wrote: hmmm. The BOG meeting is this weekend. It might be a good time to contact your Director. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Hewitt mailto:faceof...@yahoo.com To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News If the NSS news is stopped than I won't pay my dues anymore. Simple as that! From: Dave Bunnell davebunn...@comcast.net To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Hey folks,Would you believe no one in the NSS even consulted me before coming up with this proposal to stop the print versions of the News? I just found out about it recently, I'll be attending the meeting to present the case that most members like their printed News. I do think we should offer an electronic version but it should be an option, and if enough people go for that we will save some money there, but shouldn't force it on people.DaveOn 3/13/2013 10:07 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: This meeting should be a particularly interesting one. The NSS is facing a serious budget tightening and this is the meeting when the board must approve a new budget. The budget proposed by the executive committee[1] includes only three printed issues of the NSS news with the rest being electronic[2], and a reduction of staff at the office. There is a board election coming up, so come see how the board members address the budget issues. A number of board members will be represented by proxies, so come see if you would like to have any of the people acting as proxies run for a full board seat sometime in the future. Cheers - Bill [1] The NSS budget process has the five officers (the executive committee) propose a budget which must be approved by the board -- the officers plus the 12 elected directors. [2] Life members and NSS News subscribers will continue to get printed copies of all issues. On 3/6/13 at 7:16 PM, mailto:peri%40frantzfamily.us (Peri Frantz) wrote: The NSS BOG (Board of Governors) will hold it's spring meeting Saturday, March 23. This will be the first time the BOG has met in California since the 2003 Convention in Porterville. All Western Cavers are encouraged to participate. Even if you can't attend the meeting, try to make the Friday Night Gathering, the Saturday Party, or the Sunday San Andreas Fault Field Trip. See http://www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html for details and registration. Why attend? This is your best chance to meet and talk to the Directors you get to vote for every Spring. They run the Society, and want to hear your ideas and opinions. That's why they move the meeting around the country. Why register? The meeting is free. There will be a small charge for the Gathering and Party to cover costs, which you can pay when you get here. SFBC is providing housing and transportation for BOG Members, and will cover their costs for the Gathering and Party, however, in order to assure we have enough food we need to know who else intends to show up. Registering will give us a headcount. Hope we see lot of you here, Peri Frantz NSS Director Meeting Organizer -- Bill Frantz | I don't have high-speed | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | internet. I have DSL. | 16345 Englewood Ave http://www.pwpconsult.com/ | | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __._,_.___ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NSSwest/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZm1ob2FtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzNjM2MjM2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTEyNTQwNQRtc2dJZAMzOTk2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTM2MzcxNTU4OQ--?act=replymessageNum=3996 Reply via web post
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
I have hard copies of the NSS News since 1958. These are “keepers” . I intend to continue adding upcoming issues to my caving library. Bob Stucklen, NSS 4752 From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Wm Shrewsbury Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 7:13 AM To: 'Mailing List for SWR' Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News So noted and will be passed along Blake. I was in the process of posting my NSSWest and CaveChat replies to this forum and then noticed that it had already been forwarded. The speed of the Internet exceeds even the fastest typists. Wm Shrewsbury President, National Speleological Society From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Artisan Caver Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 8:54 AM To: Ray Keeler Cc: Mailing List for SWR Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the President and every other BOG member on this issue and voice my opinion. Blake N. Jordan Sandia Grotto Chairman Sent from my iPad On Mar 19, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Ray Keeler rckee...@cox.net wrote: hmmm. The BOG meeting is this weekend. It might be a good time to contact your Director. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Hewitt mailto:faceof...@yahoo.com To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News If the NSS news is stopped than I won't pay my dues anymore. Simple as that! From: Dave Bunnell davebunn...@comcast.net To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Hey folks,Would you believe no one in the NSS even consulted me before coming up with this proposal to stop the print versions of the News? I just found out about it recently, I'll be attending the meeting to present the case that most members like their printed News. I do think we should offer an electronic version but it should be an option, and if enough people go for that we will save some money there, but shouldn't force it on people.DaveOn 3/13/2013 10:07 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: This meeting should be a particularly interesting one. The NSS is facing a serious budget tightening and this is the meeting when the board must approve a new budget. The budget proposed by the executive committee[1] includes only three printed issues of the NSS news with the rest being electronic[2], and a reduction of staff at the office. There is a board election coming up, so come see how the board members address the budget issues. A number of board members will be represented by proxies, so come see if you would like to have any of the people acting as proxies run for a full board seat sometime in the future. Cheers - Bill [1] The NSS budget process has the five officers (the executive committee) propose a budget which must be approved by the board -- the officers plus the 12 elected directors. [2] Life members and NSS News subscribers will continue to get printed copies of all issues. On 3/6/13 at 7:16 PM, mailto:peri%40frantzfamily.us (Peri Frantz) wrote: The NSS BOG (Board of Governors) will hold it's spring meeting Saturday, March 23. This will be the first time the BOG has met in California since the 2003 Convention in Porterville. All Western Cavers are encouraged to participate. Even if you can't attend the meeting, try to make the Friday Night Gathering, the Saturday Party, or the Sunday San Andreas Fault Field Trip. See http://www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html for details and registration. Why attend? This is your best chance to meet and talk to the Directors you get to vote for every Spring. They run the Society, and want to hear your ideas and opinions. That's why they move the meeting around the country. Why register? The meeting is free. There will be a small charge for the Gathering and Party to cover costs, which you can pay when you get here. SFBC is providing housing and transportation for BOG Members, and will cover their costs for the Gathering and Party, however, in order to assure we have enough food we need to know who else intends to show up. Registering will give us a headcount. Hope we see lot of you here, Peri Frantz NSS Director Meeting Organizer -- Bill Frantz | I don't have high-speed | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | internet. I have DSL. | 16345
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
It would seem that this is part of the trade-offs of putting more money into a new headquarters. It is ironic that one of the arguments used in favor of a new Huntsville headquarters was that we might loose staff if it were moved, and now we are talking about reducing office staff However, I strongly believe, for various reasons outlined below, it is critical that we retain a printed News at least as an option for members and institutional supporters. ** The interest of many people is first attracted by seeing a magazine or journal on a rack, picking it up and perusing it. Few people would do this (without prior involvement) just scrolling through a list of online subscriptions at a library, nor will friends of members ask OH, can I see what online journals you have? No. But they commonly pick up my News, their attention arrested by the attractive picture on the cover. ** At least with older members, I believe at least some of us LIKE sitting down with a hard-copy journal or News and not in front of a screen. ** Reducing the visability of the society now by eliminating hard-copy News would be like a failing restaurant cutting quality of food to stay afloat. We all know what happens then - progressive cuts in staff and quality lead to an irreversible downwards spiral, to which there is only one end. There is only one long-term solution to this and that is a concerted membership drive. This is especially clear when one examines the demographics of our membership, which year by year is greyer and slower. Attracting people to a failing society will be harder and harder if we choose to continue to restrict what we offer. Might I suggest: ** Every grotto set a goal of concertedly attracting 10% new members in the next year and 20% over the next five years. This could be promoted by having more of a concerted public outreach program where members with good stories and slide shows give more frequent talks to local non-cave groups (outing clubs, scouting groups, schools, Audubon Societies, junior chambers of commerce, etc) ** Have grotto members (especially Fellows and Life Members) donate a few dollars each year so that every grotto might award one or more first-years NSS memberships to a new, promising attendee (unrelated to grotto members). After being a member for a year it might be easier to convince new people to maintain membership on their own. ** Offer a trial membership (student membership?) with reduced dues with the first several months of hardcopy News and subsequent online subscription. I strongly believe it is easier to maintain members than to attract them initially. ** Allow new members to designate one person who was especially instrumental in bringing them in, and give a one year membership discount to that person. Multiple new members could result in an especially good recruiter getting their own fees waived entirely. ** Encourage more donations (of* goods or services*), more attendance and more vigorous bidding at the auctions, with some percent of the money raised pledged to the publication efforts of the society. One way to do that might be to give donors of items for the auction X percent of the hammer price, or a gift card for Y % good for gift memberships or goods at the NSS store (with X Y: for example X = 25%, Y = 50%). The success of auctions depends on getting better things, more competitive bidders and more bidders. A more successful auction might also benefit from a page in the News before the convention describing some of the premier items and donors, and a page afterward covering some of the highlights, and successful bidders. We are at a critical juncture for the Society: we are poorer because of recent committments at a time when membership growth has been stagnant and the society is greying. However, if we offer less to members, we will find it harder and harder to keep up, and will be forced into more cuts making it ever harder to attrct new members. This MUST BE ADDRESSED NOW! If we wait ten years with continued failing recruitment, there will be fewer, older members and it will be increasingly difficult to meet commitments and recruitment goals. There's a line from Danny Devito in Other People's Money, where he says something to the effect that there is one sure way of going down the tubes- to get a bigger and bigger share of a shrinking market. I hope the Society doesn't follow this course. Michael Queen 13805 On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 6:53 AM, Artisan Caver blandev...@comcast.netwrote: I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
Michael, Points noted and will be passed along. I'd like to take a quick moment to comment on a few items. ** Reducing the visability of the society now by eliminating hard-copy News would be like a failing restaurant cutting quality of food to stay afloat. We all know what happens then - progressive cuts in staff and quality lead to an irreversible downwards spiral, to which there is only one end. Perhaps the analogy is better made that we would be cutting menu items (not quality), but it trends toward the same end. There is only one long-term solution to this and that is a concerted membership drive. This is especially clear when one examines the demographics of our membership, which year by year is greyer and slower. Attracting people to a failing society will be harder and harder if we choose to continue to restrict what we offer. In my report (https://secure.caves.org/nss-business/reports/1303/PRES-1303.pdf, page 43) you will find a membership analysis by Director Dick Mitchell. A report from several years ago indicates that our membership age-span is still very similar. Our retention of new members in the 1-3 year range is where we appear to be hurting the most. I and others agree that we need to retain membership benefits, and that the best solution is a membership drive. We currently attract ~10% of our size in new members each year. Retention is one of our main problems. ** Every grotto set a goal of concertedly attracting 10% new members in the next year and 20% over the next five years. This would solve our current shortfall, and 20% would put us back to the level we enjoyed for several years. ** Allow new members to designate one person who was especially instrumental in bringing them in, and give a one year membership discount to that person. Multiple new members could result in an especially good recruiter getting their own fees waived entirely. The Marketing Advertising Committee, with assistance from our Membership Committee, did a reverse of the above - they had Grottos nominate someone who might be an up-and-coming caver that would probably benefit the Society. The above might better option. All of your suggestions are being passed along to the Board. Thank you, Wm Shrewsbury President, National Speleological Society ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
Bill, Regardless of how the budget process turns out all Life Members, Sustaining, Conservation, and Institutional members would still get a hard copy – that is not on the table at all. It is our hope that by a combination of cuts in some places, an increase in membership, and perhaps an option to obtain their News digitally for some we will be able to balance our budget. Wm Shrewsbury President, National Speleological Society From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bentley Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 2:13 PM To: s...@caver.net Cc: Mailing List for SWR Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News I recently purchased a life membership. I feel cheated now... Bill - Original Message - From: Artisan Caver mailto:blandev...@comcast.net To: Ray Keeler mailto:rckee...@cox.net Cc: Mailing List for SWR mailto:s...@caver.net Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 6:53 AM Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the President and every other BOG member on this issue and voice my opinion. Blake N. Jordan Sandia Grotto Chairman Sent from my iPad On Mar 19, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Ray Keeler rckee...@cox.net wrote: hmmm. The BOG meeting is this weekend. It might be a good time to contact your Director. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Hewitt mailto:faceof...@yahoo.com To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News If the NSS news is stopped than I won't pay my dues anymore. Simple as that! From: Dave Bunnell davebunn...@comcast.net To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Hey folks,Would you believe no one in the NSS even consulted me before coming up with this proposal to stop the print versions of the News? I just found out about it recently, I'll be attending the meeting to present the case that most members like their printed News. I do think we should offer an electronic version but it should be an option, and if enough people go for that we will save some money there, but shouldn't force it on people.DaveOn 3/13/2013 10:07 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: This meeting should be a particularly interesting one. The NSS is facing a serious budget tightening and this is the meeting when the board must approve a new budget. The budget proposed by the executive committee[1] includes only three printed issues of the NSS news with the rest being electronic[2], and a reduction of staff at the office. There is a board election coming up, so come see how the board members address the budget issues. A number of board members will be represented by proxies, so come see if you would like to have any of the people acting as proxies run for a full board seat sometime in the future. Cheers - Bill [1] The NSS budget process has the five officers (the executive committee) propose a budget which must be approved by the board -- the officers plus the 12 elected directors. [2] Life members and NSS News subscribers will continue to get printed copies of all issues. On 3/6/13 at 7:16 PM, mailto:peri%40frantzfamily.us (Peri Frantz) wrote: The NSS BOG (Board of Governors) will hold it's spring meeting Saturday, March 23. This will be the first time the BOG has met in California since the 2003 Convention in Porterville. All Western Cavers are encouraged to participate. Even if you can't attend the meeting, try to make the Friday Night Gathering, the Saturday Party, or the Sunday San Andreas Fault Field Trip. See http://www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html for details and registration. Why attend? This is your best chance to meet and talk to the Directors you get to vote for every Spring. They run the Society, and want to hear your ideas and opinions. That's why they move the meeting around the country. Why register? The meeting is free. There will be a small charge for the Gathering and Party to cover costs, which you can pay when you get here. SFBC is providing housing and transportation for BOG Members, and will cover their costs for the Gathering and Party, however, in order to assure we have enough food we need to know who else intends to show up. Registering will give us a headcount. Hope we see lot of you here, Peri Frantz NSS Director Meeting Organizer
[Texascavers] Archived NSS News in PDF
Here are all the back issues. https://secure.caves.org/nss-business/publications/NSS_News/index.shtml Just log in with your NSS# and zip code. Phil - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Archived NSS News in PDF
And a GREAT BIG THANKS to Alex Sproul for the many hours of work to scan those in!!! DirtDoc - Original Message - From: Phil Winkler pw...@dca.net To: Cave Tex texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 10:01:37 AM Subject: [Texascavers] Archived NSS News in PDF Here are all the back issues. https://secure.caves.org/nss-business/publications/NSS_News/index.shtml Just log in with your NSS# and zip code. Phil
Re: [Texascavers] water-damaged TCs and NSS News
Butch, Send me a list of the TCs you lost and I can replace those that are still in print. There are many extra copies of the NSS News in the TSS office, so send me a list of those issues you lost, too. This is contingent on your confirmation that you have fixed the water leak! ;-) Logan On 3/19/2013 11:25 PM, Butch Fralia wrote: BOG proposal to end printed NSS News I think the NSS should pursue the concept that the TSA and other organizations have. Give people an option for an online version or mailed version (or both). With TSA and some grottos that have tried that approach, the number of people who've preferred the online version vs printed version and dropped the cost of printing significantly. Some time ago, I had a water leak that soaked a box of NSS News and TSA Texas Cavers. They sort of melted by the time I discovered they were water soaked. I can't recover those copies but could if they were all digitized. Stuff happens, even if you have a printed copy, having a digital copy available isnt' a bad thing. Butch Fralia *From:*Frank Binney [mailto:fr...@frankbinney.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:11 PM *To:* Texas Cavers *Subject:* [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday's NSS Board of Governor's meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn't be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F
RE: [Texascavers] water-damaged TCs and NSS News
Logan it's long been fixed, happened about 8 years ago, I'd have to find all I have and figure out when I started losing them. Regards, Butch From: Logan McNatt [mailto:lmcn...@austin.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 1:27 PM To: Butch Fralia Cc: 'Texas Cavers' Subject: Re: [Texascavers] water-damaged TCs and NSS News Butch, Send me a list of the TCs you lost and I can replace those that are still in print. There are many extra copies of the NSS News in the TSS office, so send me a list of those issues you lost, too. This is contingent on your confirmation that you have fixed the water leak! ;-) Logan On 3/19/2013 11:25 PM, Butch Fralia wrote: I think the NSS should pursue the concept that the TSA and other organizations have. Give people an option for an online version or mailed version (or both). With TSA and some grottos that have tried that approach, the number of people who've preferred the online version vs printed version and dropped the cost of printing significantly. Some time ago, I had a water leak that soaked a box of NSS News and TSA Texas Cavers. They sort of melted by the time I discovered they were water soaked. I can't recover those copies but could if they were all digitized. Stuff happens, even if you have a printed copy, having a digital copy available isnt' a bad thing. Butch Fralia From: Frank Binney [mailto:fr...@frankbinney.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:11 PM To: Texas Cavers Subject: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday's NSS Board of Governor's meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn't be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F
RE: [Texascavers] Thank you.
Good luck, Monica! We're pulling for you! Mark Alman From: Espeleo Coahuila [mailto:espeleocoahu...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:34 PM To: TSA Cavers; texasca...@texascaver.com; Mark Alman Subject: [Texascavers] Thank you. Hi friends.. I want to dedicate this month by all of you! You are my family and I'm a very lucky to have a wonderful texas caver family! I don't want to forget, that you are very important in my life. Thanks for help me and support me in all my Cancer treatments I had 3 years with out cancer, the next week I have the next appointment with the doctor and the next year possible finish the treatment. wiht your love I can do it!!! Thank you! Love you. Moni. -- LCC. Monica Grissel Ponce Gonzalez Asociacion Coahuilense de Espeleologia, A.C. (fundadora) Associazione Geografica La Venta- Italia (socia) Centro de Estudios Karsticos La Venta (socia) Grupo Espeleologico Vaxakmen, A.C. (socia) Association for Mexican Cave Studies (colaboradora) Texas Speleological Association (Socia) Union Mexicana de Agrupaciones Espeleologicas (Socia) 045-844-1478311 cel. monicaponce1 by skype.
[Texascavers] NSS membership
From Bill Stringfellow-- The good thing about becoming a Life Member at any time is that it helps the NSS now and later. Most people don't know this but Life Member dues are not spent as soon as they come in. The money gets put into the Life Membership Fund managed by the National Speleological Foundation. Each year the Life Membership Fund returns to the NSS the full cost of Regular Member dues for each Life Member. Any income earned in excess of what is needed for Regular Dues for all Life Members is available for the NSS to use for other purposes. So paying your Life Dues at any time helps the NSS now in two ways now and then on an ongoing basis after you have gone off to Valhalla. I encourage everyone to become a life member as soon as they can. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
Gawd, let's hope not, Stefan! The move to a two way membership (cheaper for online TEXAS CAVER. Higher for mailed version), IMHO, probably saved the TSA and kept it solvent. The NSS needs to do this. I would have no problem with an online (cheaper) option. I read 'em once and then they go on the shelf. I'm not that attached to printed material. Mark (TSA Chairman at the time) From: Stefan Creaser [mailto:stefan.crea...@arm.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:31 PM To: Frank Binney Cc: Texas Cavers Subject: RE: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News Wonder if this one'll drag on as long as the TSA newsletter discussion of the same? ;-) Cheers, Stefan From: Phil Winkler [mailto:pw...@dca.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:16 PM To: Frank Binney Cc: Texas Cavers Subject: Re: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News Read all about it in the March 23 BOG Meeting topic: http://cavechat.org/ Phil On Mar 19, 2013, at 7:10 PM, Frank Binney wrote: FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday's NSS Board of Governor's meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn't be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F -- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any medium. Thank you.
RE: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News
Butch, You can download digital copies of your lost Texas Caver and NSS News, and a great many other newsletters and publications, free from the Karst Information Portal http://www.karstportal.org/browse?taxonomy=classification. Texas Caver: http://www.karstportal.org/taxonomy/term/1025 NSS News: http://www.karstportal.org/taxonomy/term/948 Mark At 12:25 AM 3/20/2013, Butch Fralia wrote: I think the NSS should pursue the concept that the TSA and other organizations have. Give people an option for an online version or mailed version (or both). With TSA and some grottos that have tried that approach, the number of people who've preferred the online version vs printed version and dropped the cost of printing significantly. Some time ago, I had a water leak that soaked a box of NSS News and TSA Texas Cavers. They sort of melted by the time I discovered they were water soaked. I can't recover those copies but could if they were all digitized. Stuff happens, even if you have a printed copy, having a digital copy available isnt' a bad thing. Butch Fralia From: Frank Binney [mailto:fr...@frankbinney.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:11 PM To: Texas Cavers Subject: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday's NSS Board of Governor's meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn't be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F Please reply to mmin...@caver.net Permanent email address is mmin...@illinoisalumni.org - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] NSS News
Folks, I'm sure that most of you have read the posts on the various caver forums by now and I appreciate seeing everyone's comments. The NSS has a significant budget short fall, as Wm said, and we've been cutting costs in all places. The shortfall is related to a decrease in membership over the last 5 years. I believe this is a result of a number of factors - long term member deaths, changing interests, a down turn in the economy, lack of access to caves because of White Nose which decreases recruitment, cost of membership, competing interests among potential new members, etc. In addition, we've also been getting questions about providing the NSS News in electronic format as some folks prefer to receive their material over the internet. You can see this trend in a decline in home delivery of newspapers and magazines and an increase in on line subscriptions. I think what we're talking about here is offering a choice among members, you can get the NSS NEWS electronically for a reduced price which may help attract members or if you're a luddite like me, you can pay a different rate and receive a hard copy by mail. Either way, the electronic version will be available to all members. I think choice is good and helps keep everyone happy. In addition, the electronic issues allow some benefits that you can't put into print such as interactive maps, more color photos, etc. How do we improve our bottom line. Membership recruitment and retention is incredibly important. I noted that most of the Bexar Grotto are NSS members when I asked for a show of hands the other day. The grotto also has a program to award a membership to a new caver every year. The Bexar Grotto has also purchased relevant books from the NSS and donated them to the local library system. This provides an educational resource for the public and provides some free information on the local grotto (and some cash flow to the NSS). In addition, the Bexar Grotto is also a member of the 404 club by donating $300 per year to the NSS for the new building. If 404 members donated $25 per month or $300 per year, we would cover the mortgage on the new building and additional funds could be used for improvements or member benefits (and you get a cool shirt which the grotto raffled off and we used that money to buy a brick at the new facility with our grotto name engraved). These are just a few of the ideas used to help support the society. Some facts on the new building The new building is only a few miles from the current office building and is a great facility for an organization such as the NSS. It will be able to house our full library collection in a professional manner, have plenty of room for office staff, book stock, storage of NSS related materials, museum, meeting and classrooms, etc. We also got an incredible deal on the property getting it at rock bottom prices when the real estate market collapsed and at very low interest rates. It is approximately 80 acres of land and actually contains some caves. The front half of the property is also a campground. There are meeting rooms in the building as well as a large auditorium. The 2014 convention will be held there saving us a lot of money and is a good time for folks to visit. The campground is also open to members for free camping. The office is being renovated and after the move, we'll be able to rent out the old office. Note also that the new building overhead will be paid though rental fees of the property for various activities such as wedding receptions, various community events, family reunions, and is expected to be a revenue generator for the society in the near future as the facility is updated and better advertised. For those of you that have been to the old office, it is what I call a blivit, that is 10 lbs of stuff (insert explicit descriptor here) in a 5lb bag. It is bulging at the seams, is not housing our collection very well, and makes it difficult for the staff to work because of space. If folks would like to hear more about the new office or other issues related to the NSS, I would offer to try and visit a grotto meeting and present a program - you'll also get an arm twisting about membership, the 404 club, donations, etc. Be aware that Texas is a big place and I don't have the time or money to visit every grotto in the state, but do try and arrange my travel schedule around grotto meetings. The NSS is a great organization. I've always been amazed at how much the NSS gets done, all because of an incredibly committed group of volunteers. Thanks and please be active in the NSS and call your directorate and let them know what you think. Geary Schindel NSS Administrative Vice Chair (The AVP responsibilities include Education, Conservation, Conventions, and Preserves) - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail:
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the President and every other BOG member on this issue and voice my opinion. Blake N. Jordan Sandia Grotto Chairman Sent from my iPad On Mar 19, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Ray Keeler rckee...@cox.net wrote: hmmm. The BOG meeting is this weekend. It might be a good time to contact your Director. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Hewitt To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News If the NSS news is stopped than I won't pay my dues anymore. Simple as that! From: Dave Bunnell davebunn...@comcast.net To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Hey folks,Would you believe no one in the NSS even consulted me before coming up with this proposal to stop the print versions of the News? I just found out about it recently, I'll be attending the meeting to present the case that most members like their printed News. I do think we should offer an electronic version but it should be an option, and if enough people go for that we will save some money there, but shouldn't force it on people.DaveOn 3/13/2013 10:07 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: This meeting should be a particularly interesting one. The NSS is facing a serious budget tightening and this is the meeting when the board must approve a new budget. The budget proposed by the executive committee[1] includes only three printed issues of the NSS news with the rest being electronic[2], and a reduction of staff at the office. There is a board election coming up, so come see how the board members address the budget issues. A number of board members will be represented by proxies, so come see if you would like to have any of the people acting as proxies run for a full board seat sometime in the future. Cheers - Bill [1] The NSS budget process has the five officers (the executive committee) propose a budget which must be approved by the board -- the officers plus the 12 elected directors. [2] Life members and NSS News subscribers will continue to get printed copies of all issues. On 3/6/13 at 7:16 PM, mailto:peri%40frantzfamily.us (Peri Frantz) wrote: The NSS BOG (Board of Governors) will hold it's spring meeting Saturday, March 23. This will be the first time the BOG has met in California since the 2003 Convention in Porterville. All Western Cavers are encouraged to participate. Even if you can't attend the meeting, try to make the Friday Night Gathering, the Saturday Party, or the Sunday San Andreas Fault Field Trip. See http://www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html for details and registration. Why attend? This is your best chance to meet and talk to the Directors you get to vote for every Spring. They run the Society, and want to hear your ideas and opinions. That's why they move the meeting around the country. Why register? The meeting is free. There will be a small charge for the Gathering and Party to cover costs, which you can pay when you get here. SFBC is providing housing and transportation for BOG Members, and will cover their costs for the Gathering and Party, however, in order to assure we have enough food we need to know who else intends to show up. Registering will give us a headcount. Hope we see lot of you here, Peri Frantz NSS Director Meeting Organizer -- Bill Frantz | I don't have high-speed | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | internet. I have DSL. | 16345 Englewood Ave http://www.pwpconsult.com/ | | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __._,_.___ Reply via web postReply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (13) RECENT ACTIVITY: New Members 1 Visit Your Group -- Coming Events: March 22-23-24, 2013 NSS Board of Governors Meeting Hosted by San Francisco Bay Chapter Menlo Park - All cavers welcome! Info: www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html April 27-28, 2013 Orientation to Cave Rescue Sequoia-Kings Canyon Natl. Parks Contact Roger Mortimer for details May 17-18-19, 2013 Speleo-Ed Seminar - Millerton Lakes, Prather, CA Hosted by Stanislaus Grotto June 1-8, 2013 National Cave Rescue Commission, Western Region Week-long Training, Level 1 only Lava Beds National Monument July 21-28, 2013 16th International Congress of Speleology
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
So noted and will be passed along Blake. I was in the process of posting my NSSWest and CaveChat replies to this forum and then noticed that it had already been forwarded. The speed of the Internet exceeds even the fastest typists. Wm Shrewsbury President, National Speleological Society From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Artisan Caver Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 8:54 AM To: Ray Keeler Cc: Mailing List for SWR Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the President and every other BOG member on this issue and voice my opinion. Blake N. Jordan Sandia Grotto Chairman Sent from my iPad On Mar 19, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Ray Keeler rckee...@cox.net wrote: hmmm. The BOG meeting is this weekend. It might be a good time to contact your Director. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Hewitt mailto:faceof...@yahoo.com To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News If the NSS news is stopped than I won't pay my dues anymore. Simple as that! From: Dave Bunnell davebunn...@comcast.net To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Hey folks,Would you believe no one in the NSS even consulted me before coming up with this proposal to stop the print versions of the News? I just found out about it recently, I'll be attending the meeting to present the case that most members like their printed News. I do think we should offer an electronic version but it should be an option, and if enough people go for that we will save some money there, but shouldn't force it on people.DaveOn 3/13/2013 10:07 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: This meeting should be a particularly interesting one. The NSS is facing a serious budget tightening and this is the meeting when the board must approve a new budget. The budget proposed by the executive committee[1] includes only three printed issues of the NSS news with the rest being electronic[2], and a reduction of staff at the office. There is a board election coming up, so come see how the board members address the budget issues. A number of board members will be represented by proxies, so come see if you would like to have any of the people acting as proxies run for a full board seat sometime in the future. Cheers - Bill [1] The NSS budget process has the five officers (the executive committee) propose a budget which must be approved by the board -- the officers plus the 12 elected directors. [2] Life members and NSS News subscribers will continue to get printed copies of all issues. On 3/6/13 at 7:16 PM, mailto:peri%40frantzfamily.us (Peri Frantz) wrote: The NSS BOG (Board of Governors) will hold it's spring meeting Saturday, March 23. This will be the first time the BOG has met in California since the 2003 Convention in Porterville. All Western Cavers are encouraged to participate. Even if you can't attend the meeting, try to make the Friday Night Gathering, the Saturday Party, or the Sunday San Andreas Fault Field Trip. See http://www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html for details and registration. Why attend? This is your best chance to meet and talk to the Directors you get to vote for every Spring. They run the Society, and want to hear your ideas and opinions. That's why they move the meeting around the country. Why register? The meeting is free. There will be a small charge for the Gathering and Party to cover costs, which you can pay when you get here. SFBC is providing housing and transportation for BOG Members, and will cover their costs for the Gathering and Party, however, in order to assure we have enough food we need to know who else intends to show up. Registering will give us a headcount. Hope we see lot of you here, Peri Frantz NSS Director Meeting Organizer -- Bill Frantz | I don't have high-speed | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | internet. I have DSL. | 16345 Englewood Ave http://www.pwpconsult.com/ | | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __._,_.___ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NSSwest/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZm1ob2FtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEzNjM2MjM2BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTEyNTQwNQRtc2dJZAMzOTk2BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTM2MzcxNTU4OQ--?act=replymessageNum=3996 Reply via web post
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
I have hard copies of the NSS News since 1958. These are “keepers” . I intend to continue adding upcoming issues to my caving library. Bob Stucklen, NSS 4752 From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Wm Shrewsbury Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 7:13 AM To: 'Mailing List for SWR' Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News So noted and will be passed along Blake. I was in the process of posting my NSSWest and CaveChat replies to this forum and then noticed that it had already been forwarded. The speed of the Internet exceeds even the fastest typists. Wm Shrewsbury President, National Speleological Society From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Artisan Caver Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 8:54 AM To: Ray Keeler Cc: Mailing List for SWR Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the President and every other BOG member on this issue and voice my opinion. Blake N. Jordan Sandia Grotto Chairman Sent from my iPad On Mar 19, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Ray Keeler rckee...@cox.net wrote: hmmm. The BOG meeting is this weekend. It might be a good time to contact your Director. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Hewitt mailto:faceof...@yahoo.com To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News If the NSS news is stopped than I won't pay my dues anymore. Simple as that! From: Dave Bunnell davebunn...@comcast.net To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Hey folks,Would you believe no one in the NSS even consulted me before coming up with this proposal to stop the print versions of the News? I just found out about it recently, I'll be attending the meeting to present the case that most members like their printed News. I do think we should offer an electronic version but it should be an option, and if enough people go for that we will save some money there, but shouldn't force it on people.DaveOn 3/13/2013 10:07 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: This meeting should be a particularly interesting one. The NSS is facing a serious budget tightening and this is the meeting when the board must approve a new budget. The budget proposed by the executive committee[1] includes only three printed issues of the NSS news with the rest being electronic[2], and a reduction of staff at the office. There is a board election coming up, so come see how the board members address the budget issues. A number of board members will be represented by proxies, so come see if you would like to have any of the people acting as proxies run for a full board seat sometime in the future. Cheers - Bill [1] The NSS budget process has the five officers (the executive committee) propose a budget which must be approved by the board -- the officers plus the 12 elected directors. [2] Life members and NSS News subscribers will continue to get printed copies of all issues. On 3/6/13 at 7:16 PM, mailto:peri%40frantzfamily.us (Peri Frantz) wrote: The NSS BOG (Board of Governors) will hold it's spring meeting Saturday, March 23. This will be the first time the BOG has met in California since the 2003 Convention in Porterville. All Western Cavers are encouraged to participate. Even if you can't attend the meeting, try to make the Friday Night Gathering, the Saturday Party, or the Sunday San Andreas Fault Field Trip. See http://www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html for details and registration. Why attend? This is your best chance to meet and talk to the Directors you get to vote for every Spring. They run the Society, and want to hear your ideas and opinions. That's why they move the meeting around the country. Why register? The meeting is free. There will be a small charge for the Gathering and Party to cover costs, which you can pay when you get here. SFBC is providing housing and transportation for BOG Members, and will cover their costs for the Gathering and Party, however, in order to assure we have enough food we need to know who else intends to show up. Registering will give us a headcount. Hope we see lot of you here, Peri Frantz NSS Director Meeting Organizer -- Bill Frantz | I don't have high-speed | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | internet. I have DSL. | 16345
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
It would seem that this is part of the trade-offs of putting more money into a new headquarters. It is ironic that one of the arguments used in favor of a new Huntsville headquarters was that we might loose staff if it were moved, and now we are talking about reducing office staff However, I strongly believe, for various reasons outlined below, it is critical that we retain a printed News at least as an option for members and institutional supporters. ** The interest of many people is first attracted by seeing a magazine or journal on a rack, picking it up and perusing it. Few people would do this (without prior involvement) just scrolling through a list of online subscriptions at a library, nor will friends of members ask OH, can I see what online journals you have? No. But they commonly pick up my News, their attention arrested by the attractive picture on the cover. ** At least with older members, I believe at least some of us LIKE sitting down with a hard-copy journal or News and not in front of a screen. ** Reducing the visability of the society now by eliminating hard-copy News would be like a failing restaurant cutting quality of food to stay afloat. We all know what happens then - progressive cuts in staff and quality lead to an irreversible downwards spiral, to which there is only one end. There is only one long-term solution to this and that is a concerted membership drive. This is especially clear when one examines the demographics of our membership, which year by year is greyer and slower. Attracting people to a failing society will be harder and harder if we choose to continue to restrict what we offer. Might I suggest: ** Every grotto set a goal of concertedly attracting 10% new members in the next year and 20% over the next five years. This could be promoted by having more of a concerted public outreach program where members with good stories and slide shows give more frequent talks to local non-cave groups (outing clubs, scouting groups, schools, Audubon Societies, junior chambers of commerce, etc) ** Have grotto members (especially Fellows and Life Members) donate a few dollars each year so that every grotto might award one or more first-years NSS memberships to a new, promising attendee (unrelated to grotto members). After being a member for a year it might be easier to convince new people to maintain membership on their own. ** Offer a trial membership (student membership?) with reduced dues with the first several months of hardcopy News and subsequent online subscription. I strongly believe it is easier to maintain members than to attract them initially. ** Allow new members to designate one person who was especially instrumental in bringing them in, and give a one year membership discount to that person. Multiple new members could result in an especially good recruiter getting their own fees waived entirely. ** Encourage more donations (of* goods or services*), more attendance and more vigorous bidding at the auctions, with some percent of the money raised pledged to the publication efforts of the society. One way to do that might be to give donors of items for the auction X percent of the hammer price, or a gift card for Y % good for gift memberships or goods at the NSS store (with X Y: for example X = 25%, Y = 50%). The success of auctions depends on getting better things, more competitive bidders and more bidders. A more successful auction might also benefit from a page in the News before the convention describing some of the premier items and donors, and a page afterward covering some of the highlights, and successful bidders. We are at a critical juncture for the Society: we are poorer because of recent committments at a time when membership growth has been stagnant and the society is greying. However, if we offer less to members, we will find it harder and harder to keep up, and will be forced into more cuts making it ever harder to attrct new members. This MUST BE ADDRESSED NOW! If we wait ten years with continued failing recruitment, there will be fewer, older members and it will be increasingly difficult to meet commitments and recruitment goals. There's a line from Danny Devito in Other People's Money, where he says something to the effect that there is one sure way of going down the tubes- to get a bigger and bigger share of a shrinking market. I hope the Society doesn't follow this course. Michael Queen 13805 On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 6:53 AM, Artisan Caver blandev...@comcast.netwrote: I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
Michael, Points noted and will be passed along. I'd like to take a quick moment to comment on a few items. ** Reducing the visability of the society now by eliminating hard-copy News would be like a failing restaurant cutting quality of food to stay afloat. We all know what happens then - progressive cuts in staff and quality lead to an irreversible downwards spiral, to which there is only one end. Perhaps the analogy is better made that we would be cutting menu items (not quality), but it trends toward the same end. There is only one long-term solution to this and that is a concerted membership drive. This is especially clear when one examines the demographics of our membership, which year by year is greyer and slower. Attracting people to a failing society will be harder and harder if we choose to continue to restrict what we offer. In my report (https://secure.caves.org/nss-business/reports/1303/PRES-1303.pdf, page 43) you will find a membership analysis by Director Dick Mitchell. A report from several years ago indicates that our membership age-span is still very similar. Our retention of new members in the 1-3 year range is where we appear to be hurting the most. I and others agree that we need to retain membership benefits, and that the best solution is a membership drive. We currently attract ~10% of our size in new members each year. Retention is one of our main problems. ** Every grotto set a goal of concertedly attracting 10% new members in the next year and 20% over the next five years. This would solve our current shortfall, and 20% would put us back to the level we enjoyed for several years. ** Allow new members to designate one person who was especially instrumental in bringing them in, and give a one year membership discount to that person. Multiple new members could result in an especially good recruiter getting their own fees waived entirely. The Marketing Advertising Committee, with assistance from our Membership Committee, did a reverse of the above - they had Grottos nominate someone who might be an up-and-coming caver that would probably benefit the Society. The above might better option. All of your suggestions are being passed along to the Board. Thank you, Wm Shrewsbury President, National Speleological Society ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
I recently purchased a life membership. I feel cheated now... Bill - Original Message - From: Artisan Caver To: Ray Keeler Cc: Mailing List for SWR Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 6:53 AM Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the President and every other BOG member on this issue and voice my opinion. Blake N. Jordan Sandia Grotto Chairman Sent from my iPad On Mar 19, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Ray Keeler rckee...@cox.net wrote: hmmm. The BOG meeting is this weekend. It might be a good time to contact your Director. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Hewitt To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News If the NSS news is stopped than I won't pay my dues anymore. Simple as that! From: Dave Bunnell davebunn...@comcast.net To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Hey folks,Would you believe no one in the NSS even consulted me before coming up with this proposal to stop the print versions of the News? I just found out about it recently, I'll be attending the meeting to present the case that most members like their printed News. I do think we should offer an electronic version but it should be an option, and if enough people go for that we will save some money there, but shouldn't force it on people.DaveOn 3/13/2013 10:07 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: This meeting should be a particularly interesting one. The NSS is facing a serious budget tightening and this is the meeting when the board must approve a new budget. The budget proposed by the executive committee[1] includes only three printed issues of the NSS news with the rest being electronic[2], and a reduction of staff at the office. There is a board election coming up, so come see how the board members address the budget issues. A number of board members will be represented by proxies, so come see if you would like to have any of the people acting as proxies run for a full board seat sometime in the future. Cheers - Bill [1] The NSS budget process has the five officers (the executive committee) propose a budget which must be approved by the board -- the officers plus the 12 elected directors. [2] Life members and NSS News subscribers will continue to get printed copies of all issues. On 3/6/13 at 7:16 PM, mailto:peri%40frantzfamily.us (Peri Frantz) wrote: The NSS BOG (Board of Governors) will hold it's spring meeting Saturday, March 23. This will be the first time the BOG has met in California since the 2003 Convention in Porterville. All Western Cavers are encouraged to participate. Even if you can't attend the meeting, try to make the Friday Night Gathering, the Saturday Party, or the Sunday San Andreas Fault Field Trip. See http://www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html for details and registration. Why attend? This is your best chance to meet and talk to the Directors you get to vote for every Spring. They run the Society, and want to hear your ideas and opinions. That's why they move the meeting around the country. Why register? The meeting is free. There will be a small charge for the Gathering and Party to cover costs, which you can pay when you get here. SFBC is providing housing and transportation for BOG Members, and will cover their costs for the Gathering and Party, however, in order to assure we have enough food we need to know who else intends to show up. Registering will give us a headcount. Hope we see lot of you here, Peri Frantz NSS Director Meeting Organizer -- Bill Frantz | I don't have high-speed | Periwinkle (408)356-8506 | internet. I have DSL. | 16345 Englewood Ave http://www.pwpconsult.com/ | | Los Gatos, CA 95032 __._,_.___Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (13) Recent Activity: a.. New Members 1 Visit Your Group -- Coming Events: March 22-23-24, 2013
Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News
Bill, Regardless of how the budget process turns out all Life Members, Sustaining, Conservation, and Institutional members would still get a hard copy – that is not on the table at all. It is our hope that by a combination of cuts in some places, an increase in membership, and perhaps an option to obtain their News digitally for some we will be able to balance our budget. Wm Shrewsbury President, National Speleological Society From: swr-boun...@caver.net [mailto:swr-boun...@caver.net] On Behalf Of Bill Bentley Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 2:13 PM To: s...@caver.net Cc: Mailing List for SWR Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News I recently purchased a life membership. I feel cheated now... Bill - Original Message - From: Artisan Caver mailto:blandev...@comcast.net To: Ray Keeler mailto:rckee...@cox.net Cc: Mailing List for SWR mailto:s...@caver.net Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 6:53 AM Subject: Re: [SWR] Fw: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News I agree with Dave Bunnell, that having the NSS News with an electronic option is a good thing. It could save the NSS some funds on publication costs. I don't believe that going totally electronic is best, because I collect them for the Sandia Grotto, and I look forward to seeing a hard copy come in the mail. Since I became a Life Member, I started to collect the NSS News. These copies have become part of my 'Caving Library'. I will also contact the President and every other BOG member on this issue and voice my opinion. Blake N. Jordan Sandia Grotto Chairman Sent from my iPad On Mar 19, 2013, at 9:41 PM, Ray Keeler rckee...@cox.net wrote: hmmm. The BOG meeting is this weekend. It might be a good time to contact your Director. Ray - Original Message - From: Daniel Hewitt mailto:faceof...@yahoo.com To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 10:16 AM Subject: Re: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News If the NSS news is stopped than I won't pay my dues anymore. Simple as that! From: Dave Bunnell davebunn...@comcast.net To: nssw...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 8:32 AM Subject: [NSSwest] BOG proposal to end the printed News Hey folks,Would you believe no one in the NSS even consulted me before coming up with this proposal to stop the print versions of the News? I just found out about it recently, I'll be attending the meeting to present the case that most members like their printed News. I do think we should offer an electronic version but it should be an option, and if enough people go for that we will save some money there, but shouldn't force it on people.DaveOn 3/13/2013 10:07 PM, Bill Frantz wrote: This meeting should be a particularly interesting one. The NSS is facing a serious budget tightening and this is the meeting when the board must approve a new budget. The budget proposed by the executive committee[1] includes only three printed issues of the NSS news with the rest being electronic[2], and a reduction of staff at the office. There is a board election coming up, so come see how the board members address the budget issues. A number of board members will be represented by proxies, so come see if you would like to have any of the people acting as proxies run for a full board seat sometime in the future. Cheers - Bill [1] The NSS budget process has the five officers (the executive committee) propose a budget which must be approved by the board -- the officers plus the 12 elected directors. [2] Life members and NSS News subscribers will continue to get printed copies of all issues. On 3/6/13 at 7:16 PM, mailto:peri%40frantzfamily.us (Peri Frantz) wrote: The NSS BOG (Board of Governors) will hold it's spring meeting Saturday, March 23. This will be the first time the BOG has met in California since the 2003 Convention in Porterville. All Western Cavers are encouraged to participate. Even if you can't attend the meeting, try to make the Friday Night Gathering, the Saturday Party, or the Sunday San Andreas Fault Field Trip. See http://www.sfbcgrotto.org/bog2013.html for details and registration. Why attend? This is your best chance to meet and talk to the Directors you get to vote for every Spring. They run the Society, and want to hear your ideas and opinions. That's why they move the meeting around the country. Why register? The meeting is free. There will be a small charge for the Gathering and Party to cover costs, which you can pay when you get here. SFBC is providing housing and transportation for BOG Members, and will cover their costs for the Gathering and Party, however, in order to assure we have enough food we need to know who else intends to show up. Registering will give us a headcount. Hope we see lot of you here, Peri Frantz NSS Director Meeting Organizer
[Texascavers] Archived NSS News in PDF
And a GREAT BIG THANKS to Alex Sproul for the many hours of work to scan those in!!! DirtDoc - Original Message - From: Phil Winkler pw...@dca.net To: Cave Tex texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 10:01:37 AM Subject: [Texascavers] Archived NSS News in PDF Here are all the back issues. https://secure.caves.org/nss-business/publications/NSS_News/index.shtml Just log in with your NSS# and zip code. Phil
Re: [Texascavers] water-damaged TCs and NSS News
Butch, Send me a list of the TCs you lost and I can replace those that are still in print. There are many extra copies of the NSS News in the TSS office, so send me a list of those issues you lost, too. This is contingent on your confirmation that you have fixed the water leak! ;-) Logan On 3/19/2013 11:25 PM, Butch Fralia wrote: BOG proposal to end printed NSS News I think the NSS should pursue the concept that the TSA and other organizations have. Give people an option for an online version or mailed version (or both). With TSA and some grottos that have tried that approach, the number of people who've preferred the online version vs printed version and dropped the cost of printing significantly. Some time ago, I had a water leak that soaked a box of NSS News and TSA Texas Cavers. They sort of melted by the time I discovered they were water soaked. I can't recover those copies but could if they were all digitized. Stuff happens, even if you have a printed copy, having a digital copy available isnt' a bad thing. Butch Fralia *From:*Frank Binney [mailto:fr...@frankbinney.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:11 PM *To:* Texas Cavers *Subject:* [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday's NSS Board of Governor's meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn't be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F
RE: [Texascavers] water-damaged TCs and NSS News
Logan it's long been fixed, happened about 8 years ago, I'd have to find all I have and figure out when I started losing them. Regards, Butch From: Logan McNatt [mailto:lmcn...@austin.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2013 1:27 PM To: Butch Fralia Cc: 'Texas Cavers' Subject: Re: [Texascavers] water-damaged TCs and NSS News Butch, Send me a list of the TCs you lost and I can replace those that are still in print. There are many extra copies of the NSS News in the TSS office, so send me a list of those issues you lost, too. This is contingent on your confirmation that you have fixed the water leak! ;-) Logan On 3/19/2013 11:25 PM, Butch Fralia wrote: I think the NSS should pursue the concept that the TSA and other organizations have. Give people an option for an online version or mailed version (or both). With TSA and some grottos that have tried that approach, the number of people who've preferred the online version vs printed version and dropped the cost of printing significantly. Some time ago, I had a water leak that soaked a box of NSS News and TSA Texas Cavers. They sort of melted by the time I discovered they were water soaked. I can't recover those copies but could if they were all digitized. Stuff happens, even if you have a printed copy, having a digital copy available isnt' a bad thing. Butch Fralia From: Frank Binney [mailto:fr...@frankbinney.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2013 6:11 PM To: Texas Cavers Subject: [Texascavers] BOG proposal to end printed NSS News FYI to Texas Cavers: There is apparently a proposal being presented at this Saturday's NSS Board of Governor's meeting to end delivery of the printed NSS News as part of your regular NSS membership. This news has generated considerable recent comment on the Western US caving lists, and has caught the NSS Editor by surprise (he hadn't be informed of the pending proposal). For more info, consult an NSS BOG member. Frank NSS 10816F
