[SWR] FW: BLM New Mexico White-Nose Syndrome Strategy Update
Jim and others, Yesterday I sent another e-mail to Mr. Juen concerning the communications problems that we are encountering. See below Mr. Juen's response and my e-mail to him. This response was same day so I think we may finally have his attention. I am providing this as info only. Ken Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - It's about dancing in the rain. From: jj...@blm.gov Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 21:45:20 -0600 Subject: Re: BLM New Mexico White-Nose Syndrome Strategy Update To: ken_harring...@hotmail.com CC: dhum...@blm.gov Ken, thank you for the. We are doing an internal review of the latest information and will have one of our staff get back to you on our process for review. Our folks have also reiterated the need to post additional updates on our web in addition to scheduled meetings. The caving community is important group and the volunteers as well. Take care. Jesse Sent from my iPad On Jun 4, 2014, at 2:26 PM, Ken Harrington ken_harring...@hotmail.com wrote: Jesse, Thank you for your response to my earlier message. When I wrote that message I was not aware that a FOIA was being developed along the same lines of concern by the SWR. In your response you refer to the periodic updates that were promised to the SWR when the caves were closed in 2011. In 2011 it was stated that the updates would be provided at no less than six month intervals. To date we have received one update in Jan 2013. One of the biggest problems we have is the lack of communications between the government entities and the caving community. We have much to offer in volunteer efforts. But, when the managing agencies arbitrarily decide that the new policy will be that no permits will be issued for recreational caving and they just will not tell the cavers about this new policy, then we have problems such as what we face today. Could you please provide me a time, date and place for the next periodic update meetings so I can plan to attend. Thank you. Ken Harrington Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - It's about dancing in the rain. Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 08:43:52 -0600 Subject: Re: BLM New Mexico White-Nose Syndrome Strategy Update From: jj...@blm.gov To: ken_harring...@hotmail.com Ken, Thank you for your email concerning BLM's strategy for reducing the threat of White-nose syndrome in New Mexico. I have directed our staff to work together, and with our inter-agency partners, to assess the new information about the Oklahoma bat and use the best available science to determine our path forward. We are also committed to provide periodic updates about our efforts through the Southwest Region of the NSS. I appreciate you taking the time to share your perspective. Jesse On Fri, May 9, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Ken Harrington ken_harring...@hotmail.com wrote: Dear Mr. Juen, I have just read Donna Hummel's missive on BLM's intent to revisit the cave closure policy due to WNS in bats. This decision to revisit the policy is being driven by the recent confirmation that the single bat in Oklahoma did not in fact have WNS after all. As for Donna's letter, what a bunch of BS that is. The caves were closed based on the original US Fish and Wildlife Service criteria for cave closures. This criteria was that all caves within a defined distance (I believe it was 200 miles) from a known cave/bat with WNS. The suspected single bat in Oklahoma put some sections of NM within that defined distance and thus the caves were closed. Now the latest tests performed on the bat confirmed it as not having WNS and there has been no evidence of the spores being found in Oklahoma caves anywhere. So instead of opening the caves in NM, I believe, BLM is now going to redefine the criteria for cave closures within NM and find some other bogus reason to keep the caves closed to cavers for recreational caving. As a case in point I would refer to Fort Stanton Cave which I am convinced will never see another recreational caving trip into it. We can disturb the bats for scientific research or surveying or dirt sample collecting but not for recreational caving as recreational cavers might bring in spores from god knows where. We continue to require complete decontamination procedures for people coming out of caves with no indication of the pseudogymnoascus destructans (PD) having ever been present in the caves. I guess now we will come up with another reason to continue to require this asinine requirement also. There is no documented evidence of cavers causing the transfer of PD spores from one cave to another. This is especially true when cavers go from one NM cave to another as we have no documented evidence of the spores being anywhere in the state to start with. I started caving in NM in 1965 and feel confident in stating that to my knowledge I have never caused the death of a single bat. One of the first caves that I
Re: [SWR] SWR Digest, Vol 24, Issue 9
Dang, I have a conference this weekend. We are super busy until mid-July Jennie McDonough On Jun 5, 2014, at 6:00 AM, swr-requ...@caver.net wrote: Send SWR mailing list submissions to s...@caver.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to swr-requ...@caver.net You can reach the person managing the list at swr-ow...@caver.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of SWR digest... Today's Topics: 1. GypKaP Inquiry (Creative Biz) 2. Fire restrictions set for Ft Stanton-Snowy River Cave National Conservation Area : (Jerry) -- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 17:54:48 -0600 From: Creative Biz blandev...@gmail.com To: New Mexico Cavers s...@caver.net, Internal Communications of the Sandia Grotto sandiagro...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] GypKaP Inquiry Message-ID: 5c7a13e2-3d21-4246-8611-0fd4d9aba...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii Who is wanting to attend the GypKaP Event scheduled for this weekend of June 7-8, 2014? I am needing a head count since I will not be going and I have asked John Lyles to go in my stead. If there folks going down from the Albuquerque area, I need to send the GypCase with them. Please reply to (Blake N. Jordan) blakenjor...@gmail.com and (John T. Lyles) j...@vla.com for desired attendance. I will be sending a map for the camping and meeting arrangement. Sincerely, Blake N. Jordan GypKaP Director 505-362-0101 -- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 01:08:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Jerry jerryat...@aol.com To: s...@caver.net Subject: [SWR] Fire restrictions set for Ft Stanton-Snowy River Cave National Conservation Area : Message-ID: 8d14e936230230a-322c-6d...@webmail-m211.sysops.aol.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Fire Restrictions Set for Fort Stanton-Snowy River Cave National Conservation Area Roswell, NM – The BLM Pecos District Office is implementing fire restrictions in the Fort Stanton-Snowy River Cave National Conservation Area (NCA) and around the community of Lincoln, New Mexico. Due to continued dry conditions and increasing fire danger, the BLM will implement these fire restrictions effective June 5, 2014, to help prevent wildfires and ensure public and firefighter safety. Effective at 12:01 a.m., Thursday, June 5, 2014, and until rescinded, the following acts are prohibited: 1. Building, maintaining, attending, or using a fire, campfire, charcoal, coal, or wood stove other than in a developed campsite or improved sites. 2. Smoking, except within an enclosed vehicle or building, a developed recreation site/improved site or while stopped in an area at least three feet in diameter that is barren or cleared of all flammable materials. According to Roswell Field Manager Chuck Schmidt, “Very limited precipitation has occurred in the Fort Stanton-Snowy River Cave NCA and surrounding areas, and we are concerned with the potential of wildfires occurring. We encourage the public to continue enjoying their lands, but emphasize that fire prevention is everyone’s responsibility.” Violation of these prohibitions is punishable by a fine of up to $1,000 and imprisonment for up to 12 months. As summer continues, additional restrictions or closures may be necessary; check for updates at www.nmfireinfo.com. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.caver.net/pipermail/swr/attachments/20140605/05eb3616/attachment-0001.html -- Subject: Digest Footer ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET -- End of SWR Digest, Vol 24, Issue 9 ** ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
[Texascavers] Pepcid radio commercial ?
I just heard a professional marketing radio commercial inviting everyone in the Greater Houston area to come see the bat flight each evening by the Waugh St. Bridge west of downtown. They made it sound like it was one of Houston's biggest attractions. It seem to be an event sponsored by the medicine company that markets Pepcid. David Locklear
[Texascavers] Bustamante Survey
Hi Friends We need help to do survey in Bustamante. Do you can come in thanks giving day 27, 28 , 29 November??? let me know if you can help me! Moni LCC. MÓNICA GRISSEL PONCE GONZÁLEZ Coordinadora de la Comisión Internacional de Técnicas y Materiales de la UIS
[Texascavers] Re: Bustamante related
A caver could spend their lifetime in the Bustamante area looking for caves and mapping caves, and re-surveying and re-mapping, etc. In Bustamante Canyon, along the hike up to Precipicio, off to the right, and across a ravine, and about 2/3 of the way up the trail, is a walk-in cave entrance hidden by brush. It is walking passage for about 20 meters. It could be surveyed in less than 2 shots probably. Higher up near the top, a caver reported in a 1974 issue of the Texas caver, numerous shelter caves and leads, and published a rough sketch as to their location. Those could be relocated, GPS'd, sketched, etc. Has anyone tried to push the sump in Carrizal since Wayne Russell's attempt around 1985 ? I still have not seen a map of that. It would be nice to see a diving video of it in HD. Over at Minas Viejas are some of the great caves in the northern part of the state. I haven't heard of much going on there in years, except for some attempts at eco-tourist caving. A caver reported in the early 80's in one of the AMCS publications finding a blind pit on the side of Pico de Candela.Myself and 2 other cavers did some ridgewalking in the lower parts of the mountain near the town, and didn't find anything worth making a note of.There was a large shelter cave that looked like it had been mined once. David Locklear Ref: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfUuO0cnpd4 ( skip to 1:30 in the link above ) - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [SWR] SWR BLM FOIA a mistake
Hi Jim, Well, you are probably not going to convince me that the SWR is a very democratic or representative organization and I'm probably not going to convince you that it is not. I don't think that I have any more to add to that discussion other than I would be happy to put my money where my mouth/keyboard is and assist the SWR with coming up with a means to institute electronic voting for officers and for special elections in significant matters such as BLM FOIA's if the leadership or membership so desires. I would appreciate it if you would make this known at the upcoming SWR business meeting to see if anyone is interested in my offer. If nothing else, electronic voting could save SWR members such as Peter Jones thousands of dollars on travelling to NM to participate in SWR politics. :) It is interesting that you mention that Steve Fleming was not appointed by the SWR chair but by unanimous consensus of the officers. I just reviewed the SWR constitution and read that the chair can delegate authority and assign committee chairpersons (Article V. Section 2 A). Bylaws Section 5 indicates that the Chair can appoint committees and their chairs. I couldn't find any mention in the SWR constitution that chairs can be appointed by unanimous consent of officers under than the SWR Chair. Since I'm obviously missing something, please let me know under what SWR constitutional authority did the officers appoint a federal liaison position independent of the chair? Unfortunately, I do think that the SWR is now in the same barrel of poop as the CBD. I think that you have created a concise and entertaining way of explaining the situation. Please don't blame me and the many other members who were never consulted on the decision to jump in that barrel. You, your fellow officers and a few outspoken and influential SWR members have yourselves to blame for joining the CBD in that stinky mess. You claim that the CBD operates by threat and open intimidation but that the SWR asks. I think that filing a FOIA comes under the realm of asking at gunpoint or via a lawsuit rather than asking with a smile and open heart. I appreciate your offer to exit the SWR and start another region, but I think I'll stick with the SWR as I think that it has a lot of good things going for it. There are a lot of SWR members engaging in proactive caving projects and positively contributing to caving and I think that is great. I also really like the SWR purpose: The specific purpose of the Southwestern Region shall be a non-profit organization to further the discovery, exploration, scientific study, and conservation of caves, especially in New Mexico and the area of Texas west of the southern projection of the eastern boundary of New Mexico; and to promote safe techniques of cave exploration. I've probably just about run my course on this discussion. It has been fun. I think that everyone knows what my perspective is on the BLM FOIA and the lack of a democratic SWR, so I'll sit back for a while and let others have the virtual floor. Happy caving. Stan -Original Message- From: Evatt nmca...@centurylink.net To: Stan Allison stanalli...@netscape.net Sent: Wed, Jun 4, 2014 7:28 pm Subject: Re: [SWR] SWR BLM FOIA a mistake From: Stan Allison Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 5:17 PM To: s...@caver.net Subject: Re: [SWR] SWR BLM FOIA a mistake Hi Jim, Thanks for your response. I would have to disagree with your assessment that the SWR is far more democratic than the USA or the NSS. I can participate in USA elections and NSS elections without having to drive across the state. Yes, the NSS officers are elected by the BOG, but I can vote for the BOG online once again without having to drive across the state. If we take the example of what happened at the SWR perhaps a humorous analogy at the USA level would be if President Obama appointed his spouse Michelle Obama to be the new liason with Russia and then Michelle declared war on Russia without consulting Congress or without the President's explicit approval. I hope everyone can see the humor in this because I really don't think the BLM is the equivalent of Russia and Michelle Obama is much better looking than Steve Fleming. I know that jokes don't transmit well via the Internet, but believe me I'm smiling as I write this and I hope that all of you will find this mildly entertaining as well. Hi Stan, Voting for NSS BOG is again, not the same thing as voting for its officers. Please understand that. And you will be voting for voter representatives you probably have never seen or met, persons whose tiny paragraph on the ballot site is the only thing you will ever know about them. The solution to not knowing them? Go to meetings and meet and talk with them. If you believe blind voting by electronic ballot is superior to knowledgeable voting, you might consider electing not to vote. In any government election, you
Re: [SWR] SWR BLM FOIA a mistake
Stan raises some valid points, which have been criticized but not really addressed. It is not at all clear he was outvoted (since a vote of the SWR membership seems not to have been taken), nor that a consensus was sought or desired. His comments on bringing issues to the general membership via email are well made and should be discussed openly via internet as well as at the SWR meeting. Liaisons are usually chosen such that they can maintain a dialogue between groups and present the views of the group they represent. Synonyms for liaise include cooperate, collaborate, and work together. Steve Fleming was apparently chosen because of his familiarity with writing FOIA requests, which meant that course of action had been chosen before his appointment. Regardless of protestations to the contrary, an FOIA request is not designed to facilitate cooperation. This is particularly true when, as Pat Seiser aptly brings up, it is not clear who in SWR can evaluate the technical aspects of the BLM response. Let me be absolutely clear: I have been a vocal critic of the CBD since it became apparent that they were patently uninterested in facts, logic, or science. When first I read their draft of the WNS suit I responded positively, as a scientist (with as strong a background in biology as geology), and tried to point out, point by point, weaknesses in their analysis, all of which were ignored and remained uncorrected in their final document. An examination of the degrees held by their staff revealed the likely reason - lots of lawyers and few staff with a good science background (BS's hardly qualify, unless accompanied by decades of experience). From what I can gather, they are more concerned with keeping up their income than with science, and without a sound footing in science, concerns about biological diversity come across as window dressing. And I have been acutely disappointed in the readiness with which BLM, USFS and NPS have seemed to sign on to the CBD platform rather than countering with good science and better data and logic. But it is certainly not clear to me (and it seems some several others) that the FOIA request is the best way to accomplish this. Is there no way that the conniving and misrepresentation of the CBD can't be brought to the attention of the broader community of ecologically concerned individuals, on whose continued support the group depends for credibility? How can these arguments be presented on the Internet, so that when one searches CBD one finds as many criticisms as self-serving claims of helping save the planet? Michael Queen On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:40 PM, Stan Allison stanalli...@netscape.net wrote: Hi Jim, Well, you are probably not going to convince me that the SWR is a very democratic or representative organization and I'm probably not going to convince you that it is not. I don't think that I have any more to add to that discussion other than I would be happy to put my money where my mouth/keyboard is and assist the SWR with coming up with a means to institute electronic voting for officers and for special elections in significant matters such as BLM FOIA's if the leadership or membership so desires. I would appreciate it if you would make this known at the upcoming SWR business meeting to see if anyone is interested in my offer. If nothing else, electronic voting could save SWR members such as Peter Jones thousands of dollars on travelling to NM to participate in SWR politics. :) It is interesting that you mention that Steve Fleming was not appointed by the SWR chair but by unanimous consensus of the officers. I just reviewed the SWR constitution and read that the chair can delegate authority and assign committee chairpersons (Article V. Section 2 A). Bylaws Section 5 indicates that the Chair can appoint committees and their chairs. I couldn't find any mention in the SWR constitution that chairs can be appointed by unanimous consent of officers under than the SWR Chair. Since I'm obviously missing something, please let me know under what SWR constitutional authority did the officers appoint a federal liaison position independent of the chair? Unfortunately, I do think that the SWR is now in the same barrel of poop as the CBD. I think that you have created a concise and entertaining way of explaining the situation. Please don't blame me and the many other members who were never consulted on the decision to jump in that barrel. You, your fellow officers and a few outspoken and influential SWR members have yourselves to blame for joining the CBD in that stinky mess. You claim that the CBD operates by threat and open intimidation but that the SWR asks. I think that filing a FOIA comes under the realm of asking at gunpoint or via a lawsuit rather than asking with a smile and open heart. I appreciate your offer to exit the SWR and start another region, but I think I'll stick with the SWR as I think that it has a lot of good things going
[Texascavers] Easy donating to the TCMA on Amazon.com
In addition to what Bennett posted about after the TSA Spring Convention...
If you want to bypass going to www.tcmacaves.orghttp://www.tcmacaves.org
before going to Amazon you can sign up for Amazon Smile {
http://smile.amazon.com/} and search for Texas Cave Management as your
designated charity (TCMA won't work).
Cheers,
Stefan
From: Bennett Lee [mailto:benn...@bennettlee.com]
Subject: [Texascavers] TSA Spring Convention Group Photo
First, let me say behave of the TCMA, thank you all for your generous
contributions and bids to the TCMA Auction. We raised over $6000, which is a
new auction record. This money helps cover our operating expenses to maintain
our cave preserves. For example, the Deep and Punkin cabin, which offers a
fine reprieve after our long survey trips, is in desperate need of a new roof.
Other properties need kiosks, gate repair, cleanup, etc. and your support at
the auction is a step in covering these expenses, but it doesn't cover
everything! So I urge you to help throughout the year by using our new Amazon
link in the banner of the TCMA website
(www.tcmacaves.orghttp://www.tcmacaves.org). All you have to do is click the
link, then buy whatever you were planning to buy from Amazon, and Amazon will
contribute 5% of your order total to the TCMA. It doesn't cost you anything
extra-the contribution is paid directly out of Amazon's profits. Just click,
the link, buy something, and you automatically contribute to the TCMA. Thank
you in advance for using the link, and again thank you for your support at the
TCMA Auction!
-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient,
please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any
other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any
medium. Thank you.
ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ, Registered
in England Wales, Company No: 2557590
ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ,
Registered in England Wales, Company No: 2548782
Re: [Texascavers] Easy donating to the TCMA on Amazon.com
I went to the TCMA webpage, clicked on the link, hit bookmark and
placed it in my toolbar for easy access.
Does the TCMA get a monthly report or anything of the sort for people
who are using it? I'm curious if my purchases are counting.
On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 2:19 PM, Stefan Creaser stefan.crea...@arm.com wrote:
In addition to what Bennett posted about after the TSA Spring Convention…
If you want to bypass going to www.tcmacaves.org before going to Amazon you
can sign up for Amazon Smile { http://smile.amazon.com/} and search for
“Texas Cave Management” as your designated charity (TCMA won’t work).
Cheers,
Stefan
From: Bennett Lee [mailto:benn...@bennettlee.com]
Subject: [Texascavers] TSA Spring Convention Group Photo
First, let me say behave of the TCMA, thank you all for your generous
contributions and bids to the TCMA Auction. We raised over $6000, which is
a new auction record. This money helps cover our operating expenses to
maintain our cave preserves. For example, the Deep and Punkin cabin, which
offers a fine reprieve after our long survey trips, is in desperate need of
a new roof. Other properties need kiosks, gate repair, cleanup, etc. and
your support at the auction is a step in covering these expenses, but it
doesn’t cover everything! So I urge you to help throughout the year by
using our new Amazon link in the banner of the TCMA website
(www.tcmacaves.org). All you have to do is click the link, then buy
whatever you were planning to buy from Amazon, and Amazon will contribute 5%
of your order total to the TCMA. It doesn’t cost you anything extra—the
contribution is paid directly out of Amazon’s profits. Just click, the
link, buy something, and you automatically contribute to the TCMA. Thank
you in advance for using the link, and again thank you for your support at
the TCMA Auction!
-- IMPORTANT NOTICE: The contents of this email and any attachments are
confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended
recipient, please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the
contents to any other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the
information in any medium. Thank you.
ARM Limited, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ,
Registered in England Wales, Company No: 2557590
ARM Holdings plc, Registered office 110 Fulbourn Road, Cambridge CB1 9NJ,
Registered in England Wales, Company No: 2548782
[SWR] GypKaP Event June 7-8, 2014
Here is the GypKaP Event Map for the Summer 2014. Please pay attention to the Instructions included as well as the Map for the Event. Any questions please direct them to me. Blake N. Jordan GypKaP Director blakenjor...@gmail.com blandev...@gmail.com 505.362.0101 cell/txt GypKaP Event 6:7:14.PDF Description: Adobe PDF document ___ SWR mailing list s...@caver.net http://lists.caver.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/swr ___ This list is provided free as a courtesy of CAVERNET
