Re: [Texascavers] historic posting

[Stefan Creaser via Texascavers]

Surely the most appropriate place would be the "Texas Caver", they're always 
wanting stuff...

-Stefan

-Original Message-
From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
Jerryatkin via Texascavers
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 9:13 AM
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] historic posting

Sure, why not. Be interesting to see what you have.

Jerry.
jerryat...@aol.com

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 14, 2015, at 8:03 AM, Greg Passmore via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
>
> I have  bunch of historic caving articles, photos, etc.  Is this list an 
> appropriate place to post these or should we start up a texas caving history 
> list?


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Re: [Texascavers] historic posting

[Greg Passmore via Texascavers]

Many years ago I made 25 copies of a bunch of cave maps from my files and sold 
them to fellow cavers for exactly my copying costs (100 pages for $5). For this 
I got yelled at for years, was given an award for the worst behaving caver, and 
I was accused of copyright violations.  All that over a handful of cave maps 
lost in old files. This censorship has helped keep new Texas cavers in the dark 
about all the great caves that have been lost or forgotten in this state.  It 
has also been instrumental in the decision not to release my cave files (even 
to the TSS), which account for over 16 file drawers of cave locations, maps, 
photos and articles. 

I would like to get all this stuff out for the next generation of cavers, but I 
am very cautious since the dying generation of cavers responsible for this 
nonsense are still (barely) around.  

(rant over)

> On Oct 14, 2015, at 9:20 AM, Jim Kennedy via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> If you are on Facebook, another good place is the Texas Speleological Survey 
> page. You can even start your own photo album there. 
> 
> Jim Kennedy
> TSS office manager
> 
> Mobile email from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 14, 2015, at 9:12 AM, Jerryatkin via Texascavers 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Sure, why not. Be interesting to see what you have.
>> 
>> Jerry.
>> jerryat...@aol.com
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Oct 14, 2015, at 8:03 AM, Greg Passmore via Texascavers 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have  bunch of historic caving articles, photos, etc.  Is this list an 
>>> appropriate place to post these or should we start up a texas caving 
>>> history list?
>>> ___
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>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
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Re: [Texascavers] historic posting

[Karen Perry via Texascavers]

Granted I am not caving any more but this overly secret concept of hiding cave 
locations in the caver community has never made sense to me. I think you should 
share your  files. They are a part of caver history and need to become a part 
of the record for future generations. Too much has already been lost due to out 
dated, needless, paranoid mindsets.
Just my 2 cents,Karen Perry
  From: Greg Passmore via Texascavers 
 To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
 Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 8:28 AM
 Subject: Re: [Texascavers] historic posting
   
Many years ago I made 25 copies of a bunch of cave maps from my files and sold 
them to fellow cavers for exactly my copying costs (100 pages for $5). For this 
I got yelled at for years, was given an award for the worst behaving caver, and 
I was accused of copyright violations.  All that over a handful of cave maps 
lost in old files. This censorship has helped keep new Texas cavers in the dark 
about all the great caves that have been lost or forgotten in this state.  It 
has also been instrumental in the decision not to release my cave files (even 
to the TSS), which account for over 16 file drawers of cave locations, maps, 
photos and articles. 

I would like to get all this stuff out for the next generation of cavers, but I 
am very cautious since the dying generation of cavers responsible for this 
nonsense are still (barely) around.  

(rant over)

> On Oct 14, 2015, at 9:20 AM, Jim Kennedy via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> If you are on Facebook, another good place is the Texas Speleological Survey 
> page. You can even start your own photo album there. 
> 
> Jim Kennedy
> TSS office manager
> 
> Mobile email from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 14, 2015, at 9:12 AM, Jerryatkin via Texascavers 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Sure, why not. Be interesting to see what you have.
>> 
>> Jerry.
>> jerryat...@aol.com
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Oct 14, 2015, at 8:03 AM, Greg Passmore via Texascavers 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have  bunch of historic caving articles, photos, etc.  Is this list an 
>>> appropriate place to post these or should we start up a texas caving 
>>> history list?
>>> ___
>>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers


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Re: [Texascavers] historic posting

[Jim Kennedy via Texascavers]

If you are on Facebook, another good place is the Texas Speleological Survey 
page. You can even start your own photo album there. 

Jim Kennedy
TSS office manager

Mobile email from my iPhone

> On Oct 14, 2015, at 9:12 AM, Jerryatkin via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> Sure, why not. Be interesting to see what you have.
> 
> Jerry.
> jerryat...@aol.com
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Oct 14, 2015, at 8:03 AM, Greg Passmore via Texascavers 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I have  bunch of historic caving articles, photos, etc.  Is this list an 
>> appropriate place to post these or should we start up a texas caving history 
>> list?
>> ___
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>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
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Re: [Texascavers] historic posting

[Karen Perry via Texascavers]

I did state caver meaning within the cave community and not general public. As 
we all know TSS files are open with proper paper work and request. Landowner 
rights should be protected yes. But so should caver rights. This has always 
been a touchy subject and most likely will be for years to come. There are many 
valid arguments on both sides of the coin. I just don't wish to see valuable 
records being lost to future generations of dedicated cavers, which I fear 
might happen if we are not careful in preserving these documents now.Karen


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Re: [Texascavers] historic posting

[Diana Tomchick via Texascavers]

I believe the root of this behavior is to ultimately protect the rights of the 
private landowners, which typically do not wish to have the locations of caves 
on their property become public knowledge. Say what you will about other 
reasons that you think/believe/know are the causes of the secrecy, there is 
still a problem with releasing cave locations to the general public. I do not 
wish to get into an argument about whether “fellow cavers” constitutes the 
general public, so please don’t flame me about that...

Diana

**
Diana R. Tomchick
Professor
Departments of Biophysics and Biochemistry
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214A
Dallas, TX 75390-8816
diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
(214) 645-6383 (phone)
(214) 645-6353 (fax)

> On Oct 14, 2015, at 11:02 AM, Karen Perry via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
>
> Granted I am not caving any more but this overly secret concept of hiding 
> cave locations in the caver community has never made sense to me. I think you 
> should share your  files. They are a part of caver history and need to become 
> a part of the record for future generations. Too much has already been lost 
> due to out dated, needless, paranoid mindsets.
> Just my 2 cents,
> Karen Perry
>
> From: Greg Passmore via Texascavers 
> To: texascavers@texascavers.com
> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 8:28 AM
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] historic posting
>
> Many years ago I made 25 copies of a bunch of cave maps from my files and 
> sold them to fellow cavers for exactly my copying costs (100 pages for $5). 
> For this I got yelled at for years, was given an award for the worst behaving 
> caver, and I was accused of copyright violations.  All that over a handful of 
> cave maps lost in old files. This censorship has helped keep new Texas cavers 
> in the dark about all the great caves that have been lost or forgotten in 
> this state.  It has also been instrumental in the decision not to release my 
> cave files (even to the TSS), which account for over 16 file drawers of cave 
> locations, maps, photos and articles.
>
> I would like to get all this stuff out for the next generation of cavers, but 
> I am very cautious since the dying generation of cavers responsible for this 
> nonsense are still (barely) around.
>
> (rant over)
>
> > On Oct 14, 2015, at 9:20 AM, Jim Kennedy via Texascavers 
> >  wrote:
> >
> > If you are on Facebook, another good place is the Texas Speleological 
> > Survey page. You can even start your own photo album there.
> >
> > Jim Kennedy
> > TSS office manager
> >
> > Mobile email from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Oct 14, 2015, at 9:12 AM, Jerryatkin via Texascavers 
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >> Sure, why not. Be interesting to see what you have.
> >>
> >> Jerry.
> >> jerryat...@aol.com
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPad
> >>
> >>> On Oct 14, 2015, at 8:03 AM, Greg Passmore via Texascavers 
> >>>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I have  bunch of historic caving articles, photos, etc.  Is this list an 
> >>> appropriate place to post these or should we start up a texas caving 
> >>> history list?
> >>> ___
> >>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
> >>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
> >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> >>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>
>
>
> >> ___
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> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
> >> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
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>
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UT Southwestern


Medical Center



The future of medicine, today.

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Re: [Texascavers] historic posting

[Ron Ralph via Texascavers]

Gregg,

Regardless of posting, the Texas Speleological Survey would appreciate your 
gifting any and all historic materials to us.  And that goes for every caver 
out there who has cave memorabilia suitable for our museum or records for our 
permanent files.  Please go online to find contact information.  
http://www.texasspeleologicalsurvey.org/

Ron Ralph, President

-Original Message- 
From: Greg Passmore via Texascavers 
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 9:03 AM 
To: texascavers@texascavers.com 
Subject: [Texascavers] historic posting 

I have  bunch of historic caving articles, photos, etc.  Is this list an 
appropriate place to post these or should we start up a texas caving history 
list?
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Re: [Texascavers] PESH 2015 Expedition (Sistema Huautla

[Alex Sproul via Texascavers]

>This came out yesterday. It's Steve Eginorie's blog about his participation in 
>this year's expedition. He was there at the beginning.

Wow, Bill! Helluva a photo essay! The blog is good, too...

How come we haven't seen Stephen in the NSS Photo Salon? Get him in there, 
please!

Alex
imoca...@comcast.net


-- 
Alex Sproul
NSS 8086RL/FE
NSS Webmaster & Acting IT Chair
www.caves.org
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Re: [Texascavers] historic posting

[Greg Passmore via Texascavers]

I do not (and have not) released locations. Just maps, descriptions, articles  
and photos.  

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[Texascavers] TCR food and the like...

[Stefan Creaser via Texascavers]

Hi All,

Don't forget your cups, plates, bowls and cutlery for the big feed on Saturday! 
This year's food theme (don't be scared) is Mexican; we haven't done that since 
I started this in 2006.

If you are so inclined we could do with some help on Friday and Saturday with 
prep work; we can bribe you with beer/cider for your help.

On Friday evening we will have a choice of "Chicken and sausage gumbo" and 
"Cuban Pulled Pork", both with rice, available for a small donation to the 
cook's trailer fund. Over the road you can drink wine with the Bexar Grotto.

On Facebook I started a count for the Friday food; about 70 people have signed 
up. If you want to ensure we cook enough please can you "like" OR comment on 
that post. OR, you can email me at mailto:stefan.crea...@arm.com . Please do 
just ONE of the options.

Cheers,
Stefan




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confidential and may also be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, 
please notify the sender immediately and do not disclose the contents to any 
other person, use it for any purpose, or store or copy the information in any 
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Re: [Texascavers] historic posting

[George Veni via Texascavers]

That publication was the first book in my caving library. It was a huge help to 
my and other young cavers' early caving at the time when help was not 
forthcoming from some of the cavers who complained about it. I still own two 
copies.

Many things have changed since then. TSS is a great place to put this 
information.

George



Sent from my phone.


George Veni, PhD
Executive Director
National Cave and Karst Research Institute
400-1 Cascades Avenue
Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA
Office: 575-887-5517
Mobile: 210-863-5919
Fax: 575-887-5523
gv...@nckri.org
www.nckri.org



 Original message 
From: Greg Passmore via Texascavers 
Date: 2015/10/14 08:28 (GMT-07:00)
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] historic posting

Many years ago I made 25 copies of a bunch of cave maps from my files and sold 
them to fellow cavers for exactly my copying costs (100 pages for $5). For this 
I got yelled at for years, was given an award for the worst behaving caver, and 
I was accused of copyright violations.  All that over a handful of cave maps 
lost in old files. This censorship has helped keep new Texas cavers in the dark 
about all the great caves that have been lost or forgotten in this state.  It 
has also been instrumental in the decision not to release my cave files (even 
to the TSS), which account for over 16 file drawers of cave locations, maps, 
photos and articles.

I would like to get all this stuff out for the next generation of cavers, but I 
am very cautious since the dying generation of cavers responsible for this 
nonsense are still (barely) around.

(rant over)

> On Oct 14, 2015, at 9:20 AM, Jim Kennedy via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
>
> If you are on Facebook, another good place is the Texas Speleological Survey 
> page. You can even start your own photo album there.
>
> Jim Kennedy
> TSS office manager
>
> Mobile email from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 14, 2015, at 9:12 AM, Jerryatkin via Texascavers 
>>  wrote:
>>
>> Sure, why not. Be interesting to see what you have.
>>
>> Jerry.
>> jerryat...@aol.com
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Oct 14, 2015, at 8:03 AM, Greg Passmore via Texascavers 
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> I have  bunch of historic caving articles, photos, etc.  Is this list an 
>>> appropriate place to post these or should we start up a texas caving 
>>> history list?
>>> ___
>>> Texascavers mailing list | http://texascavers.com
>>> Texascavers@texascavers.com | Archives: 
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
>>> http://lists.texascavers.com/listinfo/texascavers
>> ___
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>> http://www.mail-archive.com/texascavers@texascavers.com/
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[Texascavers] historic posting

[Greg Passmore via Texascavers]

I have  bunch of historic caving articles, photos, etc.  Is this list an 
appropriate place to post these or should we start up a texas caving history 
list?
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Re: [Texascavers] historic posting

[Jerryatkin via Texascavers]

Sure, why not. Be interesting to see what you have.

Jerry.
jerryat...@aol.com

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 14, 2015, at 8:03 AM, Greg Passmore via Texascavers 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have  bunch of historic caving articles, photos, etc.  Is this list an 
> appropriate place to post these or should we start up a texas caving history 
> list?
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